MU Discussion: Corrin

[Pixel_]

Just in case anybody has anything to say on the matchup.

Haven't had much trouble with Corrin (that's mostly Bayonetta lol), but I'd like to hear if there's anything noteworthy.

 

[The Wall]

It's odd to talk about because with the character being so new we don't have any "Corrin Mains" that are worth mentioning or that anyone has probably fought. Similar to how when Ryu came out, it took a bit before Trela and DJ jack were known as the Ryu guys, I think we might have to wait on this one for a bit.

I've started using Corrin as a definite secondary/co-main at this point because surprisingly it does cover some matchup issues I have. That's me as a person though, like I struggle with Ike / MetaKnight / Cloud and I feel Corrin makes that match easier. As far as fighting VS Corrin... I'm not sure. The biggest thing is you can't land anywhere near him/her in particular unless it's with an egg trailing because of that frame 5 side b stab into kick. The character outranges everything with side b and forward smash but if you're smart about sticking to the air you end up dealing with a character similar to Marth/Lucina. The big gotcha of course being that 80 degree shoot on the counter which can end your stock very early if you're not careful.

 

[marteen_]

I have a friend who pretty much mains Corrin now. It's a pretty hellish matchup against someone who's actually good with him if you're not careful.

Eggs are a necessity for approaches as landing or grounded approaches are difficult against this characther's range. They also cancel out a fully charged neutral B, which is pretty nifty.

If we get Corrin offstage, I like to just throw out a nair at him to get a gimp since his recovery is ass.

 

[Lightsoul]

Corrin is one of the most annoying characters in the game to fight outside of Omar and ROB. Here are my reasons why and what I try to do to counter it with Yoshi:

1) Corrin has amazing range. Corrin's range is really good and might be one of the best in the game up to this point. His/her Fsmash has alot of spacing range and is either tied with Cloud or could be slightly longer. It has some what decent start up and worst of all he/she has the sword based hitbox that if connects will cause more damage BUT luckily creates a sour spot and has alot less knock back.

Counter: I try to use eggs or keep my distance when in this situation. Corrin's will try to space out on the ledge and either charge or just wait until you get up to use the attack. By the time the attack comes out you usually will have no more frames of invincibility and the attack will connect for either a early kill or knocking you back off stage. You can remedy this by using eggs as you try to return. A good Corrin will try to cover your get up opinions with good spacing but eggs will remedy this or jumping into the air but do not do this often since a good Corrin will counter you with a short hop Nair.

2) Corrin has a stunner. Most Corrin's I've seen so far will spam this and its not hard to block it. Though this move is easy to counter as you can use a egg to stop it and if the Corrin is bad they will hold the B long enough to do the chomp afterwards. A good Corrin will use short burst of this move and bait you into getting close so they can use the charged chomp version. Off stage most will first this at us and if it hits will cause a nasty stun that could be life threatening. See if you already used your second jump and get it....could be game over.

Counter: I usually try to throw eggs to counter a fully charged version, and approach with eggs as to avoid the chomp at the end. Be careful with your approach since second attack cover's lot of frontal ground and at high percentage could be fatal. You must respect this move at all times though that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of it too. Read the opponent and adapt to what they do. A good Corrin will pick this up and might change how they use this attack.

3) Corrin's Air Game: The toughest part of fighting Corrin is their air game. Corrin has really good frame rate on almost all of his/her attacks and I have found this to be the hardest part of fighting one. I find most "good" Corrin's will space alot with Nair and maybe some Fair kind of like Marth/Lucina.

- Nair attacks with two swords/weapons and can destroy week projectiles aka Yoshi's eggs if time right so be ready for that. Most like to use this move to push us to the edge of the stage where Corrin plays's best with his/her variety of long range attacks and will box us in by using air attacks from time to time.

- Fair kind of does the same thing as Nair but has slightly more forward range. Used for boxing us in and then moving into other attacks.

- Dair....this move is tricky as Corrin has little to almost no end lag after the attack and can shield nearly right away. A very unfair attack but is something we must deal with.

Counter: Move away when a Corrin uses this and you are below them. Either block or space away and follow up with a egg and you do this for two reasons. Do this since if that Corrin was expecting you to attack them this will catch an un-expecting Corrin. Or they will shield in which cause you could follow up with a dash grab or something else. Just do not try to do a blind close range attack after a Corrin comes down from Dair as they have so many quick follow ups.

- Uair: The worst of the group as this move is super fast and can kill. I am still working on how to deal with this attack but the best thing I can think of so far is to treat this like dodge Cloud's Uair and respect it at all times. Some will spam this move and others will try to bait you into a movement to use it.

These are the best things I can think of at this time to help deal with Corrin. Some do not have issues with this MU but kind of like Cloud at first I am still working out different ways to deal with this character. Corrin is unlike other sword based fighters and as such we have to approach this MU slightly differently.

 

[The Wall]

Corrin is one of the most annoying characters in the game to fight outside of Omar and ROB. Here are my reasons why and what I try to do to counter it with Yoshi:

1) Corrin has amazing range. Corrin's range is really good and might be one of the best in the game up to this point. His/her Fsmash has alot of spacing range and is either tied with Cloud or could be slightly longer. It has some what decent start up and worst of all he/she has the sword based hitbox that if connects will cause more damage BUT luckily creates a sour spot and has alot less knock back.

Counter: I try to use eggs or keep my distance when in this situation. Corrin's will try to space out on the ledge and either charge or just wait until you get up to use the attack. By the time the attack comes out you usually will have no more frames of invincibility and the attack will connect for either a early kill or knocking you back off stage. You can remedy this by using eggs as you try to return. A good Corrin will try to cover your get up opinions with good spacing but eggs will remedy this or jumping into the air but do not do this often since a good Corrin will counter you with a short hop Nair.

2) Corrin has a stunner. Most Corrin's I've seen so far will spam this and its not hard to block it. Though this move is easy to counter as you can use a egg to stop it and if the Corrin is bad they will hold the B long enough to do the chomp afterwards. A good Corrin will use short burst of this move and bait you into getting close so they can use the charged chomp version. Off stage most will first this at us and if it hits will cause a nasty stun that could be life threatening. See if you already used your second jump and get it....could be game over.

Counter: I usually try to throw eggs to counter a fully charged version, and approach with eggs as to avoid the chomp at the end. Be careful with your approach since second attack cover's lot of frontal ground and at high percentage could be fatal. You must respect this move at all times though that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of it too. Read the opponent and adapt to what they do. A good Corrin will pick this up and might change how they use this attack.

3) Corrin's Air Game: The toughest part of fighting Corrin is their air game. Corrin has really good frame rate on almost all of his/her attacks and I have found this to be the hardest part of fighting one. I find most "good" Corrin's will space alot with Nair and maybe some Fair kind of like Marth/Lucina.

- Nair attacks with two swords/weapons and can destroy week projectiles aka Yoshi's eggs if time right so be ready for that. Most like to use this move to push us to the edge of the stage where Corrin plays's best with his/her variety of long range attacks and will box us in by using air attacks from time to time.

- Fair kind of does the same thing as Nair but has slightly more forward range. Used for boxing us in and then moving into other attacks.

- Dair....this move is tricky as Corrin has little to almost no end lag after the attack and can shield nearly right away. A very unfair attack but is something we must deal with.

Counter: Move away when a Corrin uses this and you are below them. Either block or space away and follow up with a egg and you do this for two reasons. Do this since if that Corrin was expecting you to attack them this will catch an un-expecting Corrin. Or they will shield in which cause you could follow up with a dash grab or something else. Just do not try to do a blind close range attack after a Corrin comes down from Dair as they have so many quick follow ups.

- Uair: The worst of the group as this move is super fast and can kill. I am still working on how to deal with this attack but the best thing I can think of so far is to treat this like dodge Cloud's Uair and respect it at all times. Some will spam this move and others will try to bait you into a movement to use it.

These are the best things I can think of at this time to help deal with Corrin. Some do not have issues with this MU but kind of like Cloud at first I am still working out different ways to deal with this character. Corrin is unlike other sword based fighters and as such we have to approach this MU slightly differently.

First off, Corrin F smash's range is more similar to Shulk's. Cloud's really isn't that massive of a range by comparison.

Secondly, the water balloon stunner should be the least of your worries. As is the same when dealing with ZSS, nair, dash attack, or even jab will clash with the paralyzer. So if you aren't in melee range of the claw bite, it nets them nothing.

Third, dair has tons of end lag because auto cancelling it on the ground is nigh impossible unless they're coming down from extremely high / near the blast zone. Pretty easy to punish if they end it with the earthquake, just run in with a grab or float above the earthquake hit and neutral b or nair. You could even just shield the hits because it's next to no shield pressure.

Corrin's Fair/Nair/Up Air all have great range and will reach beyond most whatever move we try to throw at them so it's obviously best to avoid those. If they're spamming up air in the neutral, they're probably not as good as you think they are because that's one of her best early kills moves and they're staling it. The biggest thing to look out for when playing this character is the side b (Dragon Lance). It's a safe tool in neutral if they're smart about it and has that kill potential with the tipper. When I play Corrin I actually use that as my #1 kill move.

 

[Lightsoul]

First off, Corrin F smash's range is more similar to Shulk's. Cloud's really isn't that massive of a range by comparison.

Secondly, the water balloon stunner should be the least of your worries. As is the same when dealing with ZSS, nair, dash attack, or even jab will clash with the paralyzer. So if you aren't in melee range of the claw bite, it nets them nothing.

Third, dair has tons of end lag because auto cancelling it on the ground is nigh impossible unless they're coming down from extremely high / near the blast zone. Pretty easy to punish if they end it with the earthquake, just run in with a grab or float above the earthquake hit and neutral b or nair. You could even just shield the hits because it's next to no shield pressure.

Corrin's Fair/Nair/Up Air all have great range and will reach beyond most whatever move we try to throw at them so it's obviously best to avoid those. If they're spamming up air in the neutral, they're probably not as good as you think they are because that's one of her best early kills moves and they're staling it. The biggest thing to look out for when playing this character is the neutral b. It's a safe tool in neutral if they're smart about it and has that kill potential with the tipper. When I play Corrin I actually use that as my #1 kill move.

Interesting points. I'll just need to keep figuring out the MU better. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Genma316]

dair has tons of end lag because auto cancelling it on the ground is nigh impossible unless they're coming down from extremely high / near the blast zone. Pretty easy to punish if they end it with the earthquake, just run in with a grab or float above the earthquake hit and neutral b or nair. You could even just shield the hits because it's next to no shield pressure.

I've messed around with Corrin for a bit, and I've found that it is possible to auto cancel it closer to the ground, I want to say about a couple lengths above SV platform. I still have no idea how it happened, but I've been able to auto cancel dair in to rapid jab and even grab.

 

[Lightsoul]

I've messed around with Corrin for a bit, and I've found that it is possible to auto cancel it closer to the ground, I want to say about a couple lengths above SV platform. I still have no idea how it happened, but I've been able to auto cancel dair in to rapid jab and even grab.

Its true I've fought alot of Corrin's who some how cancel near the ground and are able to either shield, grab or jab combo right away.

 

[DJlive]

My biggest issue with Corrin is the wall she can put up. Dragon claw shot, especially the claw is hard to deal with. I try egg to Nair but the claw seems to eat up the nair. Same goes with her aerials. Nair, fair and bair autocancelled all eat eggs and Nair.

Given this, my initial assessment is to respect the moves. Don't try to nair out of aerials and time your approach right. If you can delay your approach by rising nair and up b, do so. Once you get the window of opportunity, Yoshi's ability to combo her is absolutely insane. She falls at fighting your combos because of the better frame data. You'd really want to be up close and personal.

My biggest issue of the mu is baiting her to approach. Like us, she's really more of a wall character but I think her neutral is way better. Plus, our disadvantaged state doesn't play well against her. But in the advantaged state, we can shine. It's going to that state that I'm having problems with. Any ideas?

 

[Filler Dmon]

I certainly wish I could help a bit more than nothing. I don't know much about the match up, and would like to learn more of it personally, just because of a roadblock it created for me a few days from this post.

The only piece of advice that I feel like I could give that's worth contributing is that, while Yoshi's shield helps protect him against the bulk of Corrin's options (I honestly think that Yoshi can possibly punish Corrin on shield harder than any other character can, just because of the nature of his shield), it also makes grabbing him a bit more attractive. At the moment of testing, a Corrin without Rage (admittedly on a Yoshi AI that might not be D-I-ing) kills initiating the Up-Throw at 151% on Final Destination(doing 9% to make the final death point at 160%). Given that non-stale Corrin's pummel does 3% each, and there's usually enough time to get maybe 3 before a good mashing can force her to either throw, get one more hit, or let go, the magical number to avoid being grabbed at, pummeled thrice, then thrown to death, appears to be 142% for Yoshi.

As for Corrin's dair, I don't seem to be able to get to an auto-cancel height on Final Destination without foot-stooling, them jumping again, and doing it at the height of that second jump. Just to mark the distance, since I'm sure you could make better use of that information than I can. I'm not sure if auto-canceled drill-legs is supposed to standard-issue Corrin tech. I'd be more worried about it being able to possibly drill through certain attacks.