[MU] Corrin

[Sheik_Pwns]

Okay so as a SFL link player myself and fierce come across a lot of corrin players. My observation of this character are based solely on how i have approached this character and dealing with a lot of corrins on FG lol.
From what i have observed Link does not totally suck at this match up. I believe that with the proper amount of spacing you can close out a kill very early.
What i have noticed is that a lot of corrin players with B-reverse the stun cannon. Unless you have a soft bomb, a bomb in hand, sh Fair or are in standing animation. DO NOT Challenge!
Also the worse thing to watch out for is the side-b attack that roots you in place. If you can bait out a forward kick Link's neutral and and boomerang IMO get the job done or you could just grab.
Camping out corrin IMO is not advised, as corrin has no problem running up in your face and jab comboeing (very annoying)
A good thing to try and do it condition your opponent to counter Corrins' counter can kill very early while in the air. GRAB when necessary.
I have a bad tendency to glide toss behind myself when approaching but a glide toss up or forward into a grab usually setup sup a lot of links Bread and Butter grab combos.
IMO i think its a 55-45 slightly in corrins favor due to the counter and stun gun
Lemme know what you guys think

To Add : From Fierce
"Corrin has a decent projectile, range, decent power and pretty good utility.
Link would do best to box him out and take advantage of his slow run speed."

 

[MintyGuy700]

You're ten years too early.

 

[Sheik_Pwns]

You're ten years too early.

just giving an analysis of the match with 200 plus hours in

 

[LakerLink]

Sheik_Pwns yea I been trying play the camp game against corrin your right it's not affective corrin has good reach. Yea I'm change my approach. As far as of now I have been getting beat more times then not, well hopely we do got the matchup advantage.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Edit: The thread is open again.

 

[Derpnaster]

With all the Corin experience I have I can honestly say this matchup is more like 55/45 in favor of Link or 50/50 even.

Here's why.

Ground game, Link has a better overall ground game than Corin, what I've had to deal with is almost entirely reliant on stuns and pins to start combos or just tack on damage. However this is a weakness in that Corin lacks the priority of a true disjoint character. everything she has can be stopped by our jab, or for more solid proof, you can nair into her fsmash and your hitbox will beat her's.

Air game. Hands down Corin wins here, While Link has man good aerials Corin is faster with better reach, since aerial moves can't clash this means most Corin players tend to stick to the air where they don't get screwed by a jab or nair killing their move and leaving them open.

As for what the issue are with this matchup. The counter is a problem but basic reading and respect keeps it low, plus it's one of the few moves where our grab is overall a better option. Corin's ability to get Link in the air should be respected and because we have fairly bad movement we need to beware of her getting in and forcing us offstage where her air game can just destroy our recovery.

Also don't forget that you have projectiles that each go through a lot of moves and one that can tank literally almost any move and stop it bar super armor, spacing a character out with projectiles and finishing her off when she tries for a laggy kill move is very standard fare for Link play by now, Corin is no different

 

[Stryker95]

Options Out of Shield for Corrin MU:

For data on shields I used this document by LordWilliam1234 and looked at the advantage drop and advantage out of shield (I called the disadvantage drop and disadvantage out of shield so I don’t have to deal with negative numbers). I tested every move on shield to test if they pushed Link away or how well they could space and then tested what options we had that could still reach.

Link’s OOS:

Spoiler: Link's OOS

Jump cancelled Up-B- 8 frame start up

Jump cancelled U-Smash- 10 frame start up

Shield Grab- 10 frame start up (12 frame grab start up, 3 frame spot dodge start up for Corrin, keep in mind that the tether will take longer to grab if the opponent is further away)

Jab- 14 frame start up (7 frame shield drop, 7 frame jab)

U-Tilt- 15 (7 frame shield drop, 8 frame start up)

D-Smash- 16 frame start up (7 frame shield drop, 9 frame start up)

D-Tilt- 18 frame start up (7 frame shield drop, 11 frame start up)

F-Tilt- 22 frame start up (7 frame shield drop, 15 frame start up) Can take a few frames longer as F-Tilt has hitboxes can hit later depending on when the Master Sword connects.

F-Smash- 22 frame start up (7 frame shield drop, 15 frame start up)

Dash Attack- 28 frame start up (7 frame shield drop, 1 frame to start dash, 20 frame start up) Can take a few frames longer as F-Tilt has hitboxes can hit later depending on when the Master Sword connects.

Bomb throw- 8 frame start up (7 frames start up, 1 frame before blast)

Note on bombs: Bombs will connect even if enemy is right in your face. They come out faster than grab, but while both are active (tether and bomb moving through the air) tether moves faster than a bomb.

Some abbreviations (because I don’t want to write them out all the time):

Spoiler

DD: Disadvantage drop- this means how many frames Link has to punish Corrin after dropping shield first.

For example, Link has a jab with a 7 frame start up. If the DD of a move is 7 or more, Link can punish Corrin with this move.

DO: Disadvantage out of shield- this means how many frames Link has to punish Corrin using a direct OOS, like grab or jump cancelled moves.

For example, Up-B OOS has an 8 frame start-up, so if the DO is 8 or more, than Up-B OOS will punish.

I tested this in training mode 1/4 speed hold L, so these are frame perfect, keep that in mind when deciding what you want to use for your punish. I list all possible punishes considering good spacing and the fact that some moves push Link away, making some options that are fast enough not an option, I will point these out as they come.

If I state something as “perfect spacing” I mean Corrin hitting the edge of shield, meaning he would have whiffed entirely if Link was not shielding.

"Good spacing" means Corrin would barely hit Link if Link was not shielding.

"Bad spacing" means Corrin and Link are very close together.

Next are Corrin’ moves:

Spoiler: Jab

All spacings refer to if Jab 1 hits shield first.

Jab (1): DD: 12, DO: 19

At perfect spacing Grab and Bomb will punish.

At good spacing Grab, Bomb, Jab, DTilt, and DSmash will punish.

At bad spacing Grab, Up B, Jab, DTilt, DSmash, U-Smash, UTilt, and Bomb will punish.

Jab (2): DD: 15, DO: 22

At perfect spacing Grab and Bomb will punish.

At good spacing Grab, Bomb, Jab, DTilt, and DSmash will punish.

At bad spacing Grab, Bomb, Jab, Up-B, DTilt, UTilt, USmash, FSmash, and DSmash will punish.

Rapid Jab: No data. Rapid Jab comes out after Jab 2 and never after Jab 3. Between Jab 2 and Rapid Jab, Up-B and Bomb can beat it coming out. These cannot punish between Jab 2 and Jab 3 though.

Jab Ender: DD: 26, DO: 33

At perfect and good spacing Grab, DA, and Bomb will punish. All others can punish but will require one to walk up first.

At bad spacing anything can punish. If a little late Corrin will retract enough to require USmash and UTilt to miss, so you need to walk up first. Or don’t be late.

Jab (3): DD: 19, DO: 26

At perfect and good spacing Grab and Bomb will punish.

At bad spacing Grab, Bomb, Jab, Up-B, UTilt, USmash, FTilt, FSmash, DTilt and DSmash can punish.

Spoiler: F-Tilt

F-Tilt: DD: 11 DO: 18

At perfect and good spacing only Grab will punish.

At bad spacing Grab, Bomb, Jab, Up-B, DSmash, DTilt, U-Smash and U-Tilt will punish.

Spoiler: D-Tilt

D-Tilt: DD: 12 DO: 19

At perfect spacing Grab can punish.

At good spacing Grab, DSmash, DTilt and Bomb will punish.

At bad spacing Grab, Bomb, DTilt, Jab, Up-B, UTilt, USmash, and DSmash will punish.

Spoiler: U-Tilt

U-Tilt: DD: 14 DO: 21

At perfect spacing Grab, Bomb, D-Smash, and DTilt will punish.

At good spacing Grab, Bomb, D-Smash, Jab and DTilt will punish.

At bad spacing Grab, Bomb, Up-B, D-Smash, DTilt, UTilt, USmash, and Jab will punish.

Spoiler: Dash Attack

Dash Attack: DD: 19 DO: 26

Anything can punish depending on the spacing. Dash Attack will only punish if Corrin begins the DA right next to Link and goes through Link’s shield and will still have active hitboxes but can’t hit Link, giving you more time. This move “autolinks” so if you let go of shield after it connects you can guarantee you won’t hold shield too long.

Spoiler: F-Smash

F-Smash: DD: 24/21 DO: 31/28 (Non-tipper, tipper)

At perfect and good spacing nothing will punish.

At bad spacing anything can punish.
Basically, know the distance required for your moves. Especially DA for this scenario.

Spoiler: F-Smash (Charge)

F-Smash: No data

Bomb can be thrown between the charge of FSmash and the actual smash hit. You will still be hit by the FSmash but Corrin will be hit by the bomb.

Spoiler: D-Smash

D-Smash: DD: 25/26/23 DO: 32/33/30

At perfect spacing anything can punish. DA, grab, and bomb are the only moves that don’t require you to walk up first. For the back hit all but DA will require you to walk up first. You can’t walk up UTilt, up-B or Dash/ walkup USmash. You can Dash Up-B though.

At good spacing anything can punish. DA, grab, FSmash 1 (just the tip) and bomb are the only moves that don’t require you to walk up first. For the back hit all but bomb and DA will require you to walk up first. You can’t punish with walk up UTilt or Up-B. (You can Dash Up-B.)

At bad spacing anything will punish.

Spoiler: Up-Smash

Up-Smash: DD: 22 DO: 29

At any spacing anything will punish. At perfect spacing UTilt, Up-B, jab and USmash will require one to walk up first.

At good spacing UTilt, Up-B, and USmash will require one to walk up first.

Aerials: This is tricky. Aerials will vary because of when they hit the shield (on top, the middle, etc.), sweetspot or sourspot, autocancelling, or if the opponent screws up or not. I will just place the DD and DO as well as landing lag and auto-cancels at the end of moves. (Note: If auto cancelled, Corrin suffers only 4 frames of landing lag.)

Spoiler: Nair

Nair: DD: 0 DO: 7 Landing lag: 13 Auto-cancel: 1-5, 50>

Nothing will punish.

Spoiler: Fair

Fair: DD: 1 DO: 8 Landing Lag: 14 Auto-cancel: 1-6, 30>

Bomb and Up-B may punish.

Spoiler: Bair

Bair: DD: -1 DO: 6 Landing lag: 14 Auto-cancel: 1-5, 42>

Nothing will punish.

Spoiler: Dair

Dair: DD: 15 DO: 22 Landing lag: 26 Auto-cancel: 1-11, 41>

Grab, Bomb, Jab, Up-B, U-Tilt, DTilt, DSmash, FSmash and U-Smash may punish.

Spoiler: Upair

Upair: DD: 1 DO: 8 Landing Lag: 15 Auto-Cancel: 1-3, 40>

Nothing will punish.

Specials

Spoiler: Dragon Shot (Neutral B)

Dragon Shot: DD: 32/28 DO:39/35 (Projectile only, bite does not connect.)

Anything can punish based on spacing. Don’t rush in and get hit by them charging the bite and then releasing it on you. Duh.

Dragon Shot (Bite): DD: 19 DO:26

Anything but DA can punish.

Spoiler: Dragon Lunge/ Pin (Side B)

Dragon Lunge/ Pin: No data.

If she sits there on the pin, bomb and Up-B can punish before she can act when close. USmash does not come out before she can act, but beats all of her options on her startup so it is a guaranteed punish.
If one Up-Bs, Grabs, or Bomb Throws OoS, all will beat (Up-B may trade) with the kicks before they reach you. Up-Smash can punish, but when the first hit connects with her foot, she leaves the animation and enters hitstun... only to where she was which may be out of range for the next two hits of the USmash giving her plenty of time to punish.

For options mentioning "Close", "Mid", or "Far" I am using these spacing's listed respectively.

Spoiler: Close

Spoiler: Mid

Spoiler: Far

Kick towards: Close: Nothing.

Mid: Bomb can sometimes punish. If thrown too late the bomb will go over her and then explode when she can shield. If thrown too early it will turn into a standing thrown, meaning the bomb comes out later and so she can shield it. Your best bet for getting a bomb to punish is to throw it OoS behind you. If one does a dash throw, Corrin’s only option is to shield. This does not guarantee a grab however.

Far: DA can punish.

Dash grab will punish.

Bomb thrown back OoS will punish, if buffered OoS it will connect right next to Link, allowing an easy followup.

A Dash throw back will send the bomb over her.


Kick away: Close: Bomb can sometimes punish. If thrown too late the bomb will go over her and then explode when she can shield. If thrown too early it will turn into a standing thrown, meaning the bomb comes out later and so she can shield it. Your best bet for getting a bomb to punish is to throw it OoS behind you. If one does a dash throw, Corrin’s only option is to shield. This does not guarantee a grab however.

Mid: Nothing

Far: Nothing

Jump: (Keep in mind that I am talking about jump, not sitting on the pin.) Jump after pin has an FAF of 44, so incredibly laggy. She also can’t affect her momentum during those 43 frames, so she will jump in the same angle every time. Her jump has intangibility from frames 2-5. This brings about some interesting stuff. Mostly that somethings may or may not punish. An Up-B OoS can miss the first hit and not punish the beginning of jump, or the first hit can miss but the second hit can connect. Bomb can punish the jump animation, or it can read her hurtbox and then explode but not hurt her due to the intangibility on the next frame. Grab does not punish the jump option.

USmash can catch jump with the second hit if close enough. If we drop shield first, UTilt and all hits of USmash can punish. At any spacing, any aerial (to include ASA and Bair) can catch jump before she can airdodge

Spoiler: Counter (Down B)

Counter: No Data Given

Doesn’t affect shield.

Spoiler: “Dragon Ascent (Up-B)"

Dragon Ascent: No Data Given

Sets Corrin in free fall, anything can punish.