Guide Mr. Fuji's Journal - Moveset Thread - Hiatus

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If you're interested in helping write the base guide feel free to make it known within the current moveset thread or by VM/PMing Spirst or myself. Keep in mind this is meant to be for helping kickstart the metagame, if you're not interested in research/write ups or are still debating about mains, this probably won't be your thing, though any help is welcome.

Basic Things:
Summary/Pros & Cons
Base Moveset
Specials & Customs
Basic Combos/ATs

Pros (temp.):
+ Only character in the game with a holdable charge shot + reflector
+ Tilts deal a lot of damage
+ Fair amount of kill moves
+ Great Recovery
+ Good at GIMPing
+ Can Wall Jump
+ Above average throws

Cons (temp.)
- 2nd lightest character in the game
- No Custom Moves (at the time of this writing)
- Awkward hitboxes on some attacks
- Poor neutral and approaching game
- Floaty
- Large sized character
- No Spoon Sword (stupid balancing)

 

[---]

Base Moveset

Jab: Initial Hit (4%), Secondary Hits (1%), Finishing Hit (2%),
- Max Damage if all minimum duration hits connect (12%)

Forward Tilt: Sweetspot (10%), Sourspot (9%), Tip of tail (8%)
Kill %: 178%

Up Tilt: Sweetspot (6%), 5%, Sourspot (4%), Tip of Tail (3%),

Down Tilt: Sweetspot (5%), Sourspot (4%),

Dash Attack: 10%, Sourspot around arms (9%), Late (6%)
Kill %: 198%

Forward Smash: Blast Sweetspot (Min. 19%, Max 26%), Arm Sourspot (Min. 15%, Max 21%)
Min. Kill %: 110% (sweetspot), 125% (sourspot)
Max Kill%: 67% (sweetspot), 82% (sourspot)

Up Smash: 1% (Hits 1-6), Min. 10%, Max 14% (Last Hit)
Min Kill%: 112%
Max Kill%: 74%

Down Smash: Min. 15%, Max 21%
Min Kill%: 123%
Max Kill%: ~82%

Neutral Air: 1% (Hits 1-8), 4% (Last Hit)

Forward Air: 13%
Kill%: 136%

Back Air: Sweetspot (13%), Sourspot (11%), Tip of Tail (9%)
Kill%: 155%

Up Air: Sweetspot (11%), Sourspot (9%), Tip of Tail (7%)
Kill%: 195%

Down Air: Grounded Opponent (14%), Aerial Opponent (15%)
Kill%: 140% (on-stage)

Pummel: 2%

Forward Throw: Throw (3%), Shadow Balls (1.5%), ~10% Total

Back Throw: 10%
Kill%: 167%

Up Throw: 12%
Kill%: 147%

Down Throw: Throw (4%), Tail Launcher (5%)

 

[---]

This is also where I'd put Mewtwo's Custom Moves, IF MEWTWO HAD SOME.

Neutral Special 1: Shadow Ball
Min. 2.5%, Max 25%
Kill%: ~110%

Side Special 1: Confusion
Opponent Flip (9%), ~x1.4 damage when a projectile is reflected

Up Special 1: Teleport

Down Special 1: Disable
1% per hit

 

[---]

 

[---]

Opening this so we can have an active moveset/research thread.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Damnit, stop spamming ---

 

[Aninymouse]

Bair looks really good. i like Bair.

Mewtwo still has a great recovery.

Aerial Shadow Ball has recoil, as in Mewtwo's body recoils through the air.

Shadow ball takes a while to charge. Reminds me of DK's Giant Punch, in that regard. We'll probably have to charge it in spurts, or after a kill, etc.

Can we call the thread a "discussion," rather than a "directory"? I think "directory" just makes people think of a huge OP with lots of links, or somesuch.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Guys.


I just did a Mewtwo Ken combo.

What the heck lol XD

 

[---]

Confusion, at least the reflective properties, may stay out longer than the animation. Just reflected Master Hand after the hand wave.

Up-Smash is probably going to be our best Smash. Though Confusion -> D-Smash might be a thing.

Teleport is pretty much Palutena's Teleport but with less distance. I don't see any advantages it has just yet. Can maybe act out of it sooner IDK.

Dash is decent from what I can tell.

D-Air is no longer complete garbage.

F-Air is fast and has little lag. Better than B-Air at first glance IMO.

U-Air surprisingly is laggy. But man does it and U-Tilt have some range.

D-Throw seems tough to combo, the angle sucks.

Can we call the thread a "discussion," rather than a "directory"? I think "directory" just makes people think of a huge OP with lots of links, or somesuch.

You'll see what I mean once the OP is put together.

 

[yume_nikki]

I've received Mewtwo code early this morning, been trying the character against CPUs. Some things I've noticed:
-Fsmash and Usmash seem to be really good killing moves. They aren't very safe or spammable, but can get KOs reliably around 100%.
-Uthrow kills around 120% with rage. It isn't as good as PM uthrow, but still amazing. Killing with a throw in any point of the stage is huge in this game.
-I haven't had time to test, but seems quite a lightweight character to me, without major buffs regarding weight. It would be great if someone can confirm.
-Confusion seems pretty useless. The oponent can strike back with an aerial just when the move finishes. It's like setting a frame trap for yourself. The only more or less safe options I've found is shielding or mashing utilt (it would be interesting to test if confusion to utilt is actually safe).
-DownB to fsmash actually might be a thing above 70-80% (tested against cpus, but level 9 cpus escape grabs asap). However, downB can be shielded and only works if the oponent is facing you, so I'm not sure if doing just fsmash is a better option.
-Dtilt is amazing. Also, attacks with his tail seem to be larger hitbos tha Melee in general.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Speaking of confusion, why the hell can Ganon Nair when Mewtwo connects confusion?

Like for real, why?

 

[thebadlamp]

Confusion is good to punish some moves especially while in mid-air.

 

[---]

Yep, F-Air is good for kills.

B-Air sucks IMO. Checking it out in training, the hitbox is unreliable or comes out a couple frames later than it should. Had a couple times I'd be touching Mario and it wouldn't do a thing.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Shadow ball doesn't deal damage while charging

 

[Deleted member]

Some things I found, I realize some might've been covered already.

So options out of Confusion register as a true combo at any percent but the opponent can act out of Confusion before any following move connects. :\

Confusion -> D-smash for example registers as a true combo but the opponent can act before D-Smash connects.

Mewtwo's Smashes seem to hit nice and really hard.

Also midair Confusion gives a little horizontal movement, so that can be used for a little help with recovery.

Uthrow doesn't kill until late . (Kills Mario in Training mode at 142%)

Bthrow kills Mario in Training mode at the edge of the stage at ~129%

Dair is much more satisfying to connect with, hits harder and has a slightly "flashier" animation than in Melee. There are now two different trajectories though, sweetspot (at Mewtwo's foot) meteors and does 15%, "sour"spot does 14% and doesn't meteor, sending the opponent upwards (strong knockback though), this is located above Mewtwo's foot at around the location of his forearm. Not incredibly fast in terms of startup overall.

Fair seems to have further reach than in Melee, 13% at all ranges, still has strong knockback.

Bair and Uair are still pretty slow.

Bair does less damage further out, 9% at the tip, 11% at around the middle to 3/4 the length of his tail, 13% at close range.

Same for Uair, but damage "decay" is 11% -> 9% -> 7% for roughly the same ranges.

Trajectory off of Dthrow is a little high + end lag so basically no options there.

Doesn't seem like Fthrow can be "fallen out of" or DIed out of.

Utilt has vertical trajectory at close range, horizontal trajectory at very tip. 4-6%, although there doesn't seem to be an exact pattern to this damage (like it can do 4 or 6% at close range).

I'll look some more when I get time.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Speaking of DThrow, at low percents you can go for a Dtilt which is probably your best option since it has doesn't have much lag on it, so you can go for it and still be safe if your opponent does a tech.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Some things I found, I realize some might've been covered already.

So options out of Confusion register as a true combo at any percent but the opponent can act out of Confusion before any following move connects. :\

Confusion -> D-smash for example registers as a true combo but the opponent can act before D-Smash connects.

Mewtwo's Smashes seem to hit nice and really hard.

Also midair Confusion gives a little horizontal movement, so that can be used for a little help with recovery.

Uthrow doesn't kill until late . (Kills Mario in Training mode at 142%)

Bthrow kills Mario in Training mode at the edge of the stage at ~129%

Dair is much more satisfying to connect with, hits harder and has a slightly "flashier" animation than in Melee. There are now two different trajectories though, sweetspot (at Mewtwo's foot) meteors and does 15%, "sour"spot does 14% and doesn't meteor, sending the opponent upwards (strong knockback though), this is located above Mewtwo's foot at around the location of his forearm. Not incredibly fast in terms of startup overall.

Fair seems to have further reach than in Melee, 13% at all ranges, still has strong knockback.

Bair and Uair are still pretty slow.

Bair does less damage further out, 9% at the tip, 11% at around the middle to 3/4 the length of his tail, 13% at close range.

Same for Uair, but damage "decay" is 11% -> 9% -> 7% for roughly the same ranges.

Trajectory off of Dthrow is a little high + end lag so basically no options there.

Doesn't seem like Fthrow can be "fallen out of" or DIed out of.

Utilt has vertical trajectory at close range, horizontal trajectory at very tip. 4-6%, although there doesn't seem to be an exact pattern to this damage (like it can do 4 or 6% at close range).

I'll look some more when I get time.

Opponents can fall out of Fthrow based on the stage. I had an opponent fall out as Mewtwo was lifted up a bit during the stage transition on Castle Siege

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Just getting the update now

And all that stuff up there sounds wonderful about it.

 

[lltacx]

I find confusion hard to use besides for using it to reflect things, overtime i use confusion my enemy van use an Nair of Fair way faster than me. I had some nice kills with Disable + Dsmash though, love it.

 

[FlynnCL]

Some things I've noticed so far from playing Mewtwo...

- Mewtwo doesn't appear to have hurt-bubbles (or enabled ones at least) on the majority of his tail.
EDIT: Mewtwo's tail does have hurt bubbles attached to them, however they appear to be normally disabled and are activated when Mewtwo is in hitstun. This makes his frame huge considering his knockback animation consists of him spinning his tail around.

- Uncharged Shadow Ball is a jab reset at any reasonable percent. Missed tech to Shadow Ball is a free charged up-smash or down-smash. There's potential to force missed techs with down-tilt > foot-stool but Mewtwo seems a bit too floaty to get down fast enough. Teleport doesn't cut it either due to its ~30 frames of landing.

- Disable only works if the opponent is facing Mewtwo. Aerial opponents who are facing Mewtwo will sustain a small amount of horizontal knockback. There'd be some decent combo potential in this if Disable didn't halt your momentum. Disable can also be reflected, just like in Melee.

- All his aerials except neutral-aerial short-hop auto-cancel. Forward, back and up-aerial seem to have very similar interruptibility timings and are capable of being doubled jumped out of in a short-hop. Landing lag seems to be decent for every aerial.

- At lower percent, you can chain two forward-aerials together with a rising full-hop. The same applies to back-aerial but at higher percent. Mewtwo's horizontal mobility becomes extremely good with his double jump.

- I think Mewtwo might weep when facing small characters. While he has good range, his attacks have very noticeable blind-spots and his short-hop is high. A good deal of his moveset seem to have small, stab-like hitbox placements even though his animations are long arced tail swipes.

- Down-smash's hitbox isn't as big as I was hoping, and I'm having a lot of trouble hitting a single ledge-snap with it. It's probably me being awful, but Mewtwo also doesn't respond that well to fast pressure. Grab has very little range and out-of-shield feels limited (neutral-aerial had more start-up than I originally thought).

- Full-hop rising neutral-aerial is really good in some cases, it's similar to Peach's down-aerial in that it can combo into forward-aerials. However, I think a lot of follow-ups are avoidable if they D.I. down, but it's still a good move non-the-less that does nice damage and can shield-poke.

- Fast-fall neutral-aerial into the ground can also set-up into up-smash, as there's a hitbox that sends them above you. It's not reliable because of the amount of hitboxes that send them away (just outside grab range) instead.

- Up-smash is ridiculously strong but does very little damage or knockback to shields. The range is mediocre and there's not many reliable set-ups into it. Fast-fall up-aerial into running up-smash is a true combo and can kill very early, but setting that up isn't going to be easy due to how slow and wonky up-aerial is.

- Fast-fall up-aerial also combos into forward-aerial, neutral-aerial, whatever. It's your average up-aerial with a deceiving amount of start-up, small landing lag and a bunch of weirdly placed hitboxes with different knockback levels. Fast-fall up-aerial seems to combo into aerials at a wide range of percent, even above 100% using the weak hit. Again, up-air is slow so I wouldn't recommend it but it has rewards.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Speaking of confusion, why the hell can Ganon Nair when Mewtwo connects confusion?

Like for real, why?

I feel like using Confusion to attack and not just as a reflector is like attacking with Fox's Reflector: just because you can doesn't mean you should.
The only safe move (or followup of any sort, for that matter) seems to be either U-tilt or shield.

Speaking of DThrow, at low percents you can go for a Dtilt which is probably your best option since it has doesn't have much lag on it, so you can go for it and still be safe if your opponent does a tech.

D-tilt or dash attack at low percents, yeah.

Most of our tail attacks seem to do more damage and knockback with the meatier part of the tail (nearer to Mewtwo).

Jab followups seem a little to slow to be 100% reliable.

Also, WHY IN THE SEVEN HELLS DIDN'T MY WII U INSTALL THE UPDATE AUTOMATICALLY?!

 

[Rannathrtv]

Forward throw seems to have set knockback and is a very cheap kill in some situations. Side scrolling stages at the right spots can easily see 0 percent kills.

This probably doesn't matter to most of you, but it's something to think about in casuals.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Back throw is not worth it, zelda was 53% damage and only got across the whole battle field stage

And the trailer kept it a secret about D-air theres a explosion in that. So not only faster more accurate


Mewtwo its easier to hit people.


And i hate yo tell you guys this but you have to find mewtwos customs

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Back throw is not worth it, zelda was 53% damage and only got across the whole battle field stage

And the trailer kept it a secret about D-air theres a explosion in that. So not only faster more accurate


Mewtwo its easier to hit people.


And i hate yo tell you guys this but you have to find mewtwos customs

Mewtwo doesn't HAVE any customs lol

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Mewtwo doesn't HAVE any customs lol

How do you know?

If so thank heavens i don't really use customs that much anyway.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

How do you know?

If so thank heavens i don't really use customs that much anyway.

In the menu where you select your individual customs for your character (in this case Mewtwo) it says at the bottom "This fighter has no custom moves"... Or something along the lines of that

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

In the menu where you select your individual customs for your character (in this case Mewtwo) it says at the bottom "This fighter has no custom moves"... Or something along the lines of that

Lol good to know

The specials are still buffed anyway

Part of my research is going to be, is it easier to reflect projectiles/items

 

[Deleted member]

Opponents can fall out of Fthrow based on the stage. I had an opponent fall out as Mewtwo was lifted up a bit during the stage transition on Castle Siege

Can it be DIed/fallen out of barring anomalies such as stage transitions though?

 

[DrRiceBoy]

So about dthrow... I can't seem to be able to combo with it. Does it suck or do I suck?

 

[Rannathrtv]

Again, stage specific but Mewtwo can combo confusion much easier on battlefield. Confusion underneath the lower platforms forces a tech, which can allow mewtwo to get a Up smash off if spaced right. It's a tight combo but it works great.

 

[Mikkelmann]

Aerials are pretty good. Fair is pretty good has good range and good kill power especially off stage.

 

[Deleted member]

So about dthrow... I can't seem to be able to combo with it. Does it suck or do I suck?

Nah it's trajectory/angle isn't very good for combos and it has some end lag on it.

I think you pretty much can't right now.

 

[Nobie]

So about dthrow... I can't seem to be able to combo with it. Does it suck or do I suck?

Down tilt doesn't really combo into aerials, but it does combo into tilts.

Down Smash has an insanely good recovery time (or IASA frames). It's similar to Meta Knight's F-Smash or Ganondorf's Up-Smash.

Shadow Ball is STRONG. It kills earlier than Samus's Charge Shot.

 

[---]

Not sure if it's been pointed out yet, but Mewtwo can Wall Jump now.

 

[Marigi174]

I just thought I'd say that Falco hard counters Mewtwo. Also Mewtwo is a soft check to Ness on some stages (namely Halberd)

edit: Hey! You know that unused Palutena's guidance that was found in the code of SSBU ages ago? The one about a character from another dimension (the character without any data)? Yeah. That belongs to Mewtwo.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Wait, Mewtwo has no customs? Do you think that's permanent, or he might get customs when he becomes available to everybody?

 

[Mc Mew]

im suprisedc that no one has mention mewtwos weight yet

 

[Yorsh]

Looks like the Nair works the same as Zelda's NAir. Some collisions send the opponant downward, but you have to cancel the Nair at the right time by fast falling. Maybe we can use it on the edge when edgeguarding or something.

I feel like the SideB beats most moves, so even if you can't follow up, it's still 9%.

Dair's meteor smash is insanely strong, just killed a GW with it at 60% without rage, and I was far above the stage when used it.

Fair is really hard to hit on small character when they are grounded, it's possible but really tricky.

Overall I feel like mewtwo's gameplay is close to Zelda's gameplay. Slow but strong punishes (and some moves are similar : tilts, up smash, nair...).

EDIT :

im suprisedc that no one has mention mewtwos weight yet

I tried on BF with lucina, Killed him with an Fsmash at 92% (from the center of the stage, and without DI).
I killed Jigglypuff at...96%...

trying on the top now.

But since mewtwo is super floaty, maybe he can DI better or something, else it's a bit ridiculous.

EDIT 2 : So from the top patform of BF, with Lucina UPsmash, without DI and with rage, I killed Jigglypuff at 69%, and mewtwo at 76% (same as kirby, he is rank 52 in the weight rankings).

 

[itsaxelol]

LOL disable doesnt work unless theyre facing you!!!! are you ****ing serious?!?!? what???

mewtwo is ridiculously light, also

 

[wannabe33]

I cannot believe how badly designed Mewtwo turned out.

I just cannot believe it.

This "glass cannon" refrain needs to die out. Mewtwo is not a cannon. He has two above-average kill throws, three powerful (and highly punishable) smash attacks, and... that's it.

Admittedly, he is glass. Lighter than G&W? Is this a joke?

Good points: Great recovery and solid gimp potential. Shame that, in this game, edge grabs are free and most characters have great recovery that's dangerous to challenge. These assets go to waste with Smash 4's mechanics.

Bad points: Pathetic grab range. Pitiful movement speed. Hitboxes are all over the place. Poor aerial offense. Tail is garbage. Virtually no safe options on shield. Struggles to even make contact with short characters. Absolutely nonexistent combo game -- and no, those silly training "combos" with no DI don't count. Playing Mewtwo effectively means searching out stray hits and then hoping to land a grab or land a miracle smash.

He's not great. He's not good. He's not even mediocre. He is firmly a low-tier character, and once the Mewtwo Hype !! dies down I expect most people will come to their senses and agree with me. I did enjoy mew2king's waning enthusiasm as he played Mewtwo more and more. He went from (in his words) "real potential" to "good" to "average" to "mediocre" to "bad" in the span of a few hours.