Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[FullMetalLynch]

Like basically, the best way to describe your role would be in case whoever had mine ****ed up. Oh you gave a dv to scum ? Lucky us i gave the townie the loved ability (which as i read makes someone take an extra vote to lynch). I'm much more willing to believe your a scum vote manipulator and your role exists so that if i DV someone , you could protect your mates by making em harder to lynch, and if a townie is ever looking bad you can hater maker em and incite town to cut the easy baggage

 

[FullMetalLynch]

^ which would make 100% sense and balance us, just like the cop balances the tracker (because poisoner's don't visit bodies iirc) and the tracker counter's teh goons

 

[FullMetalLynch]

*cop balances the poisoner.
Also also also, just because there are two investigates and two mafia killing roles doesn't mean there would be two vote manipulation roles, that sort of wifomy out guess teh set up crap is the type of dicey set up spec that loses town games

 

[FullMetalLynch]

@ Lore : He meant the poisoner and the goons, it wasn't a slip if that's what you thought

 

[Lore]

@ Lore : He meant the poisoner and the goons, it wasn't a slip if that's what you thought

Yeah, that's what I was thinking for a second. I've never really thought of goons as killing "roles" specifically, just general scum. But eh, fair enough.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Thats...
Because it is our role title. Skimmed right over that.
Vote xatres

lol wow

yeah either Dancer is deliberately trying to **** with us hardcore and thinks its justified because of Zen/Ashemu's role giving us a warning not to try to "play god", or Xatres straight up just claimed the same role title as someone who is functionally cleared barring the scum having a ninja for their last slot. (FML was tracked to no one last night, a night when the scum likely only had one member left, thus would have to have done the kill if he was scum)

@ #HBC | Dancer vote count please?

Gonna drop my vote on Xatres at some point but still wanna talk some stuff out.

Specifically @ #HBC | Laundry what's the status on the whole confirming whether you were roleblocked stuff? Report back asap please.

And dancer if you haven't gotten back to him yet please do so asap

@ Lore going into the night phase I need you to recognize that at this point you can clear a VT by tracking them (or prove they are scum if they go somewhere). You have the most direct and unambiguous results this way.

If you want to track a PR you need to recognize that you only know 100% for sure if someone is scum if they go two places in one night, and one of those places is the dead body. A claimed PR could coincidentally target the the same person as the mafia's NK, so getting a track to a body is not a 100% scum find, though it is very incriminating.

I'm not going to tell you what to do because I'm done fighting against Zen/Ashemu on this type of stuff and I think we're the two towniest slots in the game by play (FML is basically cleared, as is Joey, but obviously for different night action related reasons). Make your own call on the track and keep the scum guess. Of course this assumes you live till tomorrow with is kind of unlikely assuming your claim is legit, and I apologize for putting you in this position. I hope you understand that I was trying to give myself a better position to scumhunt.

Washed, don't be ****ing ******** with you investigation pick. Just...don't. I'm not gonna babysit you but just make a ****ing good call please.

Mostly just waiting on washed at this point and then Im ready to go forward with the Xat lynch. Sketch ass claim + role title conflict + a power that can seriously **** us in late game is plenty of reason for that play IMO

 

[Lore]

Yeah FF, I understand what you're saying. I actually have a track in mind already, but I'm not going to say it for obvious reasons.

And as for becoming a target... Eh. I would have rather not claimed but at least this way the info is out there.

 

[Lore]

Oh, and another note on Xatres. He's a problem for town in lylo despite his role due to an activity problem. When you add his role into the equation... Yeah. Big potential problem for town.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Given that I do not receive my own results I get no notification of being roleblocked.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

All you managed to do was confuse yourself. If you look at who's scummy and ignore the mechanics. Mac is scum and that's all there is to it. You're making more out of this is then there needs to be.

I'll go through all the posts you've questioned. I've been intentionally avoiding going into elaboration in my replies to you because I know that you will instinctively try to out talk any point I make. But it seems that you're just going to continue on making confusion where there doesn't need to be unless I go into detail on why it's unnecessary.

Why the **** wouldn't some guy try to convince you you were wrong on one of his townreads? Unless you think FF is scum there's literally no reason to do this.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Given that I do not receive my own results I get no notification of being roleblocked.

Figured as much. You still look sketch as **** though bro.

Xatres first. Atleast WL still has a chance for his claim to be useful in some way.

Vote: Xatres

 

[Lore]

Actually didn't WL target Jerkus? Maybe the death prevented him from technically targeting him. Kinda like mtg where you target something then the creature dies before your effect resolves so it fizzles.

And the fact that we haven't had a counterclaim makes me comfortable with him even more.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Zen already brought that whole "bounce back" thing up.

I can see the logic behind how it works operationally, but I've literally NEVER seen any mod use that mechanic. Personally, I think it's stupid because it violates the Golden Rule of NAR.

On of the key rules of NAR is "assume that all killing shots fire simultaneously at the very end of your action resolution."

If Dancer followed this rule, then here's how the actions would've happened.

Laundry targets Jerkus. Thus, he "visits" him for tracking/watching purposes.

Werekill targets Laundry. Since trackers/watchers typically go as close to the end of NAR resolution as possible (since they are dependent on the actions of other players, they often must go after everyone else goes, since the Golden Rule says to resolves actions that can be affected by other actions AFTER those other actions go), Werekill would see Laundry visit Jerkus.

Then, since the kill targetting would NOT affect the tracking, it would get resolved last as kills typically are. Scum fires and Jerkus dies. This all occurs after all the other visits have happened.

That's how resolution should be done if Dancer was following NAR. The bounce back mechanic directly violates NAR. It's not impossible that Dancer is using that mechanic, but I think it's unlikely. It's also really, really ****ing lame if he did.

 

[Lore]

True, FF. In that case it could just be a roleblocker getting lucky. I'm inclined to believe him due to the existence of the note and no counterclaim.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FML confirming note receipt is definitely a big plus. I just can't ignore the possibility of a Scum courier that can send custom messages to other players. That would allow him to fake being an amnesiac cop extremely well, since as scum he'd know who is town and who isn't for the most part (because of course, he could be wrong about potential indies, though he wouldnt necessarily look back saying a play was town and having the player flip indy, since indies often come up town to cop investigations).

 

[Lore]

In that case, wouldn't my track still show him visiting unless he chose not to use his power?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

You're asking if, as a scum courier, whether WL/Gorf would still be able to be tracked when they send a message, right?

If that's your question the answer is not necessarily. Courier/anonymous messanger type roles aren't always considered to be "visiting" or "targeting" roles. This is entirely a technicality, but some mod will treat the messaging power as a power that operates through the moderator and does not actually "target" the player who is the intended recipient of the message. If Dancer were to treat such a role in this way, then WL/Gorf would never get tracked to the people who received their messages.

The more important point to consider though is this. If WL/Gorf are faking being an amnesiac cop when they are instead a scum courier, they could have easily just not sent out any messages for the first two days, understanding that they can easily say "hey guys I investigated these people but man oh man I guess no one wants to speak up and say they got the results, scum mustve gotten them >_>" and no one would be able to disprove them. This way they can establish a fake investigation record, make up the past results whenever they feel like actually making the fake claim, and then send out a real message for the one investigation they actually want someone to confirm so they can incriminate them, or manipulate the towns lynch pool through a random clear, etc. etc.

I don't really think that this is likely to be what actually happened, but it is completely possible, and within the abilities of both people who've controlled that slot.

 

[Xivii]

We should lynch macman.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

We should lynch macman.

No Xatres first

 

[Inglorious Retards]

lol wow

yeah either Dancer is deliberately trying to **** with us hardcore and thinks its justified because of Zen/Ashemu's role giving us a warning not to try to "play god", or Xatres straight up just claimed the same role title as someone who is functionally cleared [...]

I was just about to vote Xatres and then you post the bolded part and now I'm unsure again because you may actually have a point here. The main problem I have with Xatres' claim is the fact that we only know one part of it to be true [make people hated] but the other one might just be a lie. So all in all, I still think Xatres' is a solid lynch toDay. I don't want to exclude the feint possibility of a scumtracker [Werekill] or Joey being the godfather though.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I was just about to vote Xatres and then you post the bolded part and now I'm unsure again because you may actually have a point here. The main problem I have with Xatres' claim is the fact that we only know one part of it to be true [make people hated] but the other one might just be a lie. So all in all, I still think Xatres' is a solid lynch toDay. I don't want to exclude the feint possibility of a scumtracker [Werekill] or Joey being the godfather though.

I'm not excluding the possibility of Joey GF or scum tracker at all.

I just think by play both of those slots are more townie than Xatres, and on top of that they have better claim related info supporting them.

I think werekill by play just seems incredibly, incredibly townie. Joey has some town telly moments but def not on the same tier as Werekill. Like in terms of townie ness I think my top three are Zen, FML, Werekill in that order.

So yeah Xatres just comes out as the best play by all measures here IMO

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I don't disagree with that.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Cool, vote Xatres then?

 

[Inglorious Retards]

... Vote Xatres

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ #HBC | Dancer votecount please

 

[Xatres]

I'm fine with being the play today if that's what's best for town, but I'm not convinced making the call based on FML and my roles is the best way to go about it. Are you all dedicated to killing FML tomorrow after I flip town? And if you are, should you be?

This may be a wifomy argument, but it's a good one: If I were scum, in the middle of a conversation about how the hate-maker MUST be scum, why in the world would I claim? Why would I advocate the mass claim? Why would I claim the assumed scum role when I could just as easily say VT and be done with it? We've had enough people claim it this game already. Think what you want about scumhunting early game, but know this: I am not dumb enough to do that as scum.

Until this claim a very large number of you were saying I was pretty clearly town. And I think this is a crappy reason for the lynch to turn around onto my slot.

 

[Lore]

No, I'm still pretty comfortable with FML thanks to my track.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Count

1. Laundry
2. FrozenFlame
3. Macman (1) - Ashemu/Zen
4. Gheb_01
5. Xatres (5) - Werekill, Luandry, FullMetalLynch, FrozenFlame, Gheb_01
6. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown)
7. Joey (1) - Joey
8. Werekill
9. Ashemu/Zen

Not Voting: Macman

A lynch has been reached! Flip incoming.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Somewhere over the rainbow

Way up high
There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby
Somewhere over the rainbow
Skies are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true
Someday I'll wish upon a star
And wake up where the clouds are far behind me
Where troubles melt like lemon drops
Away above the chimney tops
That's where you'll find me
Somewhere over the rainbow
Blue birds fly
Birds fly over the rainbow
Why then oh why can't I?
If happy little blue birds fly beyond the rainbow
Why oh why can't I?

Xatres (Fritz Verdemann, town lynch manipulator) has been lynched!
​

Night 4 starts! No more posting in thread. Please send in all Night actions by the 07/13/14 at 11:59 pm EST.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

FrozenFlame (Milan Kolasch, vanilla townie) has been killed during the Night! ​

Vote Count
1. Laundry
2 Macman
3. Gheb_01
4. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown)
5. Joey
6. Werekill
7. Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ

Not Voting: Everyone

Day 5 starts! With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline has been set to 07/21/14 at 11:59pm EST.

​

 

[Lore]

His role name was actually lynch manipluator? Are you kidding me?

Tracked Gheb and got a no visit. Who did you target, Laundry?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

We did and got nothing.
****ing xatres mang

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Will talk to rake after vaccination and school

 

[Lore]

Wait a second, just checked my pms. You targeted FML? He's town from the note, but why?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Prolly due to the xatres flip

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Wait a second, just checked my pms. You targeted FML? He's town from the note, but why?

???

 

[FullMetalLynch]

ooooh

 

[FullMetalLynch]

today is the day we lynch zen.

 

[Lore]

ooooh

Yeah, I had the page still open on my way to work and didn't refresh it before posting, so I thought I was gonna double post.

So for clears (in my eyes unless we somehow have 5 scum) we have:
Gheb (from track)
FML (track and now note)
Joey (note)

For semi clears we have Zen and Laundry, thanks to the tracks. I'm more inclined to believe Laundry's claim, especially since Zen was a N1 track.

So that leaves (in my eyes) Macman. If he flips town I'm down with going for Zen toMorrow for sure. Laundry could be a courier, but I'd rather believe him for now.

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

GUESS WHO'S NOW A 1-SHOT COP

ALSO GUESS WHO'S PROBABLY FAKECLAIMING

Vote: WashedLaundry