Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Reila]

Welcome, @ Iron Maw !

Anyway, Palutena's lack of popularity doesn't bother me. I prefer her to be an underdog than being extremely popular /hipster

 

[Wintropy]

Welcome, @ Iron Maw !

Anyway, Palutena's lack of popularity doesn't bother me. I prefer her to be an underdog than being extremely popular /hipster

This. I'd rather represent an underrated character and stick to my guns than just go with the flow because everybody else is doing it.

Yo! Newcomer here and another future Palutena user. Nice meet everyone.



Robin is probably mid if Zipzo's impressions are anything to go by, that aside I agree. Though a heavy goddess doesn't exactly strike me as graceful. lol

But I'm glad it will be hard to kill her, not mention it will make her figure rather deceptive to opponents, given what we have normally gotten as the traditional heavyweights.

I always thought she could be heavyweight, if only becasue she's so tall and doesn't need to move around much. I don't normally play heavyweights, but I'll certainly make an exception for Ladypal~

 

[Glaciacott]

I'm with Admiral Pit on people's attitude and stupid comments just enraging me, especially in context.
Like people praising the miis and then giving **** to Palutena's customs because of "Sakurai Bias"
But then when her defaults are fairly normal, forget Sakurai bias, then she sucks because she has a counter. But Shulk and Little Mac are still totally awesome!
And then people ***** about her trailer not having "suspense" while praising Little Mac's which did the same exact ****ing thing by being extremely obvious from the get go.
And why doesn't she look as expressive in the game as in other appearances *assumes CGI 3D models can have equally expressive faces to anime stand-stills.*

I can understand the people who just don't like her, that's how things are. But bull**** reasoning to give her an absolute 0% just pisses me off.

Welcome, @ Iron Maw !

Anyway, Palutena's lack of popularity doesn't bother me. I prefer her to be an underdog than being extremely popular /hipster

I would agree, BUT, I know the fandom way too ****ing much.

In the Japanese demo, people are now saying she's OP and really strong and comboes. I'm entirely sure that if she winds up playing well a bunch of these asshats will wind up flocking towards her immediately while those that don't will yell Sakurai bias.
Meanwhile, if she plays bad people will hate Sakurai for his bias wasting a slot.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Man, I was hoping Palutena would be low-mid tier. Then people would cry when I beat the crap out of them.

 

[Iron Maw]

Meh, it's best to ignore people like that. It's all you can really do anyway, and chances are with attitudes like that they weren't really people worth talking to begin with.

Play who you like however you like I say! Those who can embace that reasoning are the ones who you pay attention to.

 

[Iron Maw]

Meh, it's best to ignore people like that. It's all you can really do anyway, and chances are with attitudes like that they weren't really worth talking to begin with.

Play who you like however you like I say! Those who can embrace that reasoning are the ones who you pay attention to.

 

[Wintropy]

In the grand scheme of things, tiers make about as much difference to the game as spitting at the sun. We can argue statistics and data all day and all night, but ultimately, I don't see how they affect a character's actual qualities. I've seen Brawl matches where CPU Zelda has consistently beaten CPU Meta Knight, and quite comfortably, too. It all ultimately comes down to the brass tacks of how you play the character and the time and effort you put into learning how to play them.

My brother mains Ganondorf in Brawl. He's easily among the best players I've ever seen and could quite earnestly compete in a professional tournament and come out smiling. He also plays the likes of Marth and Mr Game & Watch: all entirely different characters at various stages of the official tier list. He's good at the game because he works hard and plays hard. Conversely, he is, by his own admission, god-awful as Meta Knight and Diddy Kong - even though he's tried to play them just to see if they're any good for him. It has nothing to do with how "naturally" good a character is or how they reputedly rank against other characters.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against tiers as an objective area of research. It's interesting to know where my favourite characters lie on the tier list (in Brawl, at least, it's almost entirely in the middle). It's just not my cup of tea, personally, to play a character I have no interest in just for the sake of winning. I'd rather lose honourably and enjoy myself than play simply to win for the sake of prestige and glory.

So, when push comes to shove, I don't honestly mind whereabouts Palutena is on the tier list. She could be queen of the world or a dead-end loser and I'd still play her.

tl;dr

Meh, it's best to ignore people like that. It's all you can really do anyway, and chances are with attitudes like that they weren't really people worth talking to begin with.

Play who you like however you like I say! Those who can embace that reasoning are the ones who you pay attention to.

Exactly what this fine young man said.

 

[Reila]

There is nothing better than beating the crap outa someone playing as a mid/low-ish tier character. Specially a mod/low-ish tier character who isn't exactly well received by this ****ty fandom. Although I must say I am willing to play Palutena regardless of her rank in the tier list. She is so awesome in Uprising.

 

[The Light Music Club]

There is nothing better than beating the crap outa someone playing as a mid/low-ish tier character. Specially a mod/low-ish tier character who isn't exactly well received by this ****ty fandom. Although I must say I am willing to play Palutena regardless of her rank in the tier list. She is so awesome in Uprising.

Yeah, I mean I main Phoenix Wright in UMvC3 and he is the lowest on the tier list. I still love him, so I use him. I really don't care who is considered "good" I just use the characters I personally like. Hence why I already know my list of mains:

. DHD, Bowser Jr., Yoshi, Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Falco, Wolf and Bowser are lower of course. I have to see how they play first. Based on what I've seen, the six I mentioned I will for sure be using.

 

[Wintropy]

Yeah, I mean I main Phoenix Wright in UMvC3 and he is the lowest on the tier list. I still love him, so I use him. I really don't care who is considered "good" I just use the characters I personally like. Hence why I already know my list of mains:

. DHD, Bowser Jr., Yoshi, Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Falco, Wolf and Bowser are lower of course. I have to see how they play first. Based on what I've seen, the six I mentioned I will for sure be using.

Arguing with people whom are set in their ways is, to quote Terry Pratchett, "like throwing meringues at a castle". Best to just smile politely and carry on regardless.

Great characters! I'll be looking forward to seeing you online~ <3

 

[The Light Music Club]

Arguing with people whom are set in their ways is, to quote Terry Pratchett, "like throwing meringues at a castle". Best to just smile politely and carry on regardless.

Great characters! I'll be looking forward to seeing you online~ <3

Yes. I will be streaming me playing the game. Of course, I can't show the screen cause I don't have a camera but I will be talking and fielding questions while I play. I hope we can play once you get a copy!

 

[Glaciacott]

Arguing with people whom are set in their ways is, to quote Terry Pratchett, "like throwing meringues at a castle".

Idk man, to me throwing meringues at a castle sounds like a good time.

I mean, all in all, I naturally play how I want and with whoever I want. But still, it's the internet and it's the pre-smash season ... getting all passionate in defense of your character is part of the fun of the season, since once the game comes out they are all Smash characters without a question.

 

[Zwzchow]

Sigh, looking in that rating the chance thread and a lot of Palutena hate is too cringe-worthy. I can understand if you don't like her or her personality or even her trailer (I was disappointed in the trailer recently) as everyone's different, but reading some of the reasons was just the worst, and the majority of those reasons are either about waifus, fanservice, or hating the fact that she has unique custom specials compared to other characters. Few reasons was also that her model probably didn't look good. I mean come on people, it ain't called a DEMO for a reason. She'll look much better in the finalized version just like every other character.

I can't wait til that stupid thread ends, and sorry for the rant, but it just enrages me to read all of that. But don't worry, at least we love Palutena, and that's still okay by me.

The worst reason ever is Sakurai bias I hate it so much

Yes. I will be streaming me playing the game. Of course, I can't show the screen cause I don't have a camera but I will be talking and fielding questions while I play. I hope we can play once you get a copy!

Can I add you :D

 

[The Light Music Club]

The worst reason ever is Sakurai bias I hate it so much


Can I add you :D

I don't know what my JPN one will be yet. I think I will be getting a US copy later on. That will be Phoenix_Trite. My JPN will most likely be _TLMC_ but by all means please do.

 

[Zwzchow]

Impressions from Weinhben:

• palutena has great power on smash attacks down smash sucks all grabs have follow ups either dash attack or aerials recovery is great
• she has the same color alts as pit
• you'll be happy to know that palutena 0 to deathed me on verismo [gerudo?] valley. I got shreked. She did like a 12 hit combo on me as mario
• your waifu palutena is a godess in uprising and smash 4. Her up throw goes into up air up air and back air amazingly.

(he also mentioned some things in the comments during a stream: )

• "She has weight but is floaty like samus (Palutena)" - "Palutena is medium speed"
• "Those are probably the best newcomers" (Shulk, Palutena, Robin)

I do remember him being discredited by Zipzo though
Ben might be giving false info and just riding off the release demo hype
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2foxur/if_zipzo_starts_dropping_info_tonight_this_is/
see Post 24 and 25
@ The Light Music Club @ Admiral Pit @ ~ Valkyrie ~ added you guys

 

[Fluttershy]

If anyone wants to add my fc feel free. i still have room on my 3ds so just let me know when/if anyone does...

 

[Admiral Pit]

I'm with Admiral Pit on people's attitude and stupid comments just enraging me, especially in context.
Like people praising the miis and then giving **** to Palutena's customs because of "Sakurai Bias"
But then when her defaults are fairly normal, forget Sakurai bias, then she sucks because she has a counter. But Shulk and Little Mac are still totally awesome!
And then people ***** about her trailer not having "suspense" while praising Little Mac's which did the same exact ****ing thing by being extremely obvious from the get go.
And why doesn't she look as expressive in the game as in other appearances *assumes CGI 3D models can have equally expressive faces to anime stand-stills.*

I can understand the people who just don't like her, that's how things are. But bull**** reasoning to give her an absolute 0% just pisses me off.



I would agree, BUT, I know the fandom way too ****ing much.

In the Japanese demo, people are now saying she's OP and really strong and comboes. I'm entirely sure that if she winds up playing well a bunch of these ******s will wind up flocking towards her immediately while those that don't will yell Sakurai bias.
Meanwhile, if she plays bad people will hate Sakurai for his bias wasting a slot.

That "Sakurai Bias" thing irritates me just as much. I can't stress enough of my anger towards all the stupidity hate towards Palutena. And speaking of trailers, not all of em are meant to be suspenseful as you mentioned with Mac's being just as obvious. Each has their own kinda appeal and approach to things. Simple.

The waifu thing, the fanservice bit, Sakurai Bias, from hating her trailer, "Kid Icarus doesn't a 2nd rep", the unique specials thing (yet they forgot the Miis) among all the sad reasons for bad scores for the poor Goddess of Light.

I really hope she's just low-high tier so she won't get the abuse MK had been getting in Brawl. I mean she can be good, but just not one of the top ones. In fact, if she is one of the higher ups, I'm gonna feel sorry for those sell-outs that hate Palutena for stupid reasons, yet decide to main her only because of her tier placement (if she stays as one of the best).

For me, my heart is for and with a side of (I'm still deciding on the last one), simple as that.
If Wein really did lie to me, then well I'll be irritated too by getting me hyped for Pit and Palutena being among the most amazing veterans/newcomers respectively. But regardless, any Pit or Palutena data if it's found, I need to know. I'm so looking forward to all the goodness. After all, the quicker I gather some data, the better.

 

[Zwzchow]

If anyone wants to add my fc feel free. i still have room on my 3ds so just let me know when/if anyone does...

You guys tell us when you add us back
it will only register as a friend after both sides added each other

For me, my heart is for and with a side of (I'm still deciding on the last one), simple as that.
If Wein really did lie to me, then well I'll be irritated too by getting me hyped for Pit and Palutena being among the most amazing veterans/newcomers respectively. But regardless, any Pit or Palutena data if it's found, I need to know. I'm so looking forward to all the goodness. After all, the quicker I gather some data, the better.

It's alright Admiral
It only comes out in 5 days time. And I am sure since Palutena(-sama) is one of the more popular newcomers in Japan and that there will likely be people getting hands on it early

 

[Admiral Pit]

It's alright Admiral
It only comes out in 5 days time. And I am sure since Palutena(-sama) is one of the more popular newcomers in Japan and that there will likely be people getting hands on it early

Yea-huh to Palutena-sama (saying that is adorable sometimes), I'm also interested in seeing that Pink Pit that's so popular in Japan. But yea, not gonna lie. Waiting these 5 days are gonna be just as hard as the 5 days to E3. I mean we know Palutena's in, but it's the hype for seeing her full gameplay now that's just so hard, not to mention the costumes...

...and screen KO.
At the same time, there's also wanting to see her taunts, victory poses, and any potential codec thing for her along with her quotes. I must know all of it! It can inspire my creative mind. <3

 

[The Light Music Club]

You guys tell us when you add us back
it will only register as a friend after both sides added each other



It's alright Admiral
It only comes out in 5 days time. And I am sure since Palutena(-sama) is one of the more popular newcomers in Japan and that there will likely be people getting hands on it early

Don't worry, I'll be playing the crap out of her, as I plan on using her at my Smash Tourney in October. I'll give you info on Friday night.

 

[andimidna]

What's especially weird about some of the hate is that, now that Ridley and K Rool just decreased in scores. She is listed as the thread's most wanted newcomer throughout speculation. #1 most wanted, and now also #2 in chance due to Shulk and his leaks.
You'd think the thread would have a bias in her favor, it's funny. To me, i never knew what shed play like but she delivered x3

Also, I still like my point that if every other person there were developing the game, 99% of then would add there most wanted newcomer no questions asked. Especially if they were so highly requested.
I'm not too disturbed by this round though, I think she's doing better. Still, I can tell she'll at least be losing to Pac-Man again.

Oh well. Just let them all play as her and realize how fun she is.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Palutena is gonna be really fun, I already tell. The unique custom specials alone already make me confident about it. You want speed? Go for Lightweight and/or Super Speed. Want power? Go for Rocket Jump and Angelic Missile. More defenses? Autoreticle/Explosive Flame, Reflect Barrier, and Counter/Celestial Fireworks are calling your name out. Her versatility will be amazing. Heck, she'd be so amazing, that doing Palutena dittos may be one of the most fun dittos around ever with the custom special choices. <3
4 days left (for Japan), so bring on the Heavenly hype! <3

 

[Luminario]

Palutena is gonna be really fun, I already tell. The unique custom specials alone already make me confident about it. You want speed? Go for Lightweight and/or Super Speed. Want power? Go for Rocket Jump and Angelic Missile. More defenses? Autoreticle/Explosive Flame, Reflect Barrier, and Counter/Celestial Fireworks are calling your name out. Her versatility will be amazing. Heck, she'd be so amazing, that doing Palutena dittos may be one of the most fun dittos around ever with the custom special choices. <3
4 days left (for Japan), so bring on the Heavenly hype! <3

I wonder would the CPUs be able to use customised specials? That would really make for even more variety when picking random.

 

[Maraphy]

I think people who are saying Palutena is more op then Meta Knight, don't actually know why Meta knight was too good.
Meta Knight had many options of safe recovery for one...looking at Palutena's specials, she has almost none except for warp. Even then, I doubt it's that helpful. They are too predictable.

Sure, her specials could guarantee her to get back onto the stage...if the opponent let her. But the opponent could probably easier swat her right back off the stage before she can touch the ground.

Meta knight also had a lot of at powerful attacks that came out in an instance. I doubt Palutena does. Who knows exactly how powerful they are as well.

Don't get this all wrong, Palutena is going to be a fantastic character. Just not OP.

honestly I don't think she'll be op either
I don't think we should really get into tiers discussion at this point, but I don't think Palutena is gonna be as ridiculously strong as some make her out to be. @Turokman5896 makes a good point:

Is there any particular reason people are worried about characters like palutena and robin belong OP? I've noticed it a little bit elsewhere. It seems that they have some pretty defined weaknesses, palutena a being a poor close range game.

just judging by her trailer, you can tell that most of her normals have a lot of range but are a little on the slow side. She's gonna be all about putting a line of defense in between her and the opponent, which she seems very capable of doing, but once the opponent gets through that defense it doesn't seem like she has a lot of fast, close range options. Her F-air and B-air are her only close range attacks as far as we know, but those are limited to the air. We haven't seen her entire jab animation to judge how fast that is. So basically her best option when the opponent is too close to her on the ground is to Counter, which may or may not succeed. (maybe Reflect too since it pushes them back? not sure how fast it comes out though) Like I said, she has a lot of strengths, but I think her weaknesses are also apparent.

 

[Glaciacott]

What I imagine is that part of the amiibo idea is to let you fight computer players that have customizable moves.

I think before wanting random to pull off computer players with customizable moves, I want to just be able to have a "random" item switch so I can keep characters I don't enjoy fighting/need to fight from appearing.
No more getting Luigi three times in a row for whatever reason. Please.

 

[Admiral Pit]

That'd be a nice random button to have. I mean if I wanted to use Pit and Palutena to train against a CPU, I could always has a set for characters I hate, and a set to take on another Pit or Palutena if I can't decide.

But seriously, I'm still trying to wait to see some Palutena footage in 4 days. Speaking of, I hope she gets a unique victory theme. I already was angry at MK in Brawl getting one, and now Bowser has a remix of the Mario one + Rosalina's unique one. Please be a small nice remix of the KI:U menu theme (Palutena's theme).

 

[Burigu]

Hello I am back I deliverely didn't come to the boards all day today out of fear of me getting mad at the Rate thread, I am normally really cold headed, but with stupid reasons I just can barely stand, since I have other things to worry or getting mad in real live, other times I have defended or argued with people but I just wasn't in the mod today. I am only waiting until her official score is announced and see if she did any better than last time.

But let's face it people we support an underdog, people simply are becoming too salty over "questionable" additions like Palutena because, with the inminent release of the game their dream character becomes more unlikely. I am not going to generalize but Mother and Star Fox fans seems to be salty as well because of the whole Lucas and Wolf cut but Dark Pit is in but their irritation didn't stop with Dark Pit alone, some people were talking how KI don't deserve 3 reps and that Star Fox is bigger.

I just hope people stop bashing on other series just because theirs didn't make it, it isn't the characters fault that theirs aren't in the game, it was a gameplay decision.

I personally will miss the Ice Climbers and you don't see me bashing DHD just because he is the new retro

 

[Reila]

Star Fox may be bigger, but there isn't ONE SF game as good as Kid Icarus Uprising (seriously, I am only halfway and this game is already on my TOP 5).

 

[Maraphy]

but their irritation didn't stop with Dark Pit alone, some people were talking how KI don't deserve 3 reps and that Star Fox is bigger.

What's even worse is when people complain about KI getting two reps.....

 

[Admiral Pit]

@ Burigu You'd definitely hate the biasedness and stupid reasons there, so don't stress yourself out.

@ Reila I'm sure me, Pit, and Palutena are happy to hear that! ^_^;

@ Maraphy Yea, I've seen that... That's sad indeed. We can always imagine getting those haters with a Black Hole and a Mega Laser, or maybe a Daybreak. Sadly greed is a painful trait, if I said it right.

But fret not Palutena supporters. We shall stand together under the Heavenly Light that shall protect us.
Speaking of which, are custom specials allowed in Smash Run?

 

[Wintropy]

Star Fox may be bigger, but there isn't ONE SF game as good as Kid Icarus Uprising (seriously, I am only halfway and this game is already on my TOP 5).

It's probably my number one. It's awe-inspiringly good. ;3

I'm not gonna lie, I relish any and all opportunities to play as maligned and unpopular characters. I main R.O.B. in Brawl because I genuinely love the little plastic dork and am eager to play Wii Fit Trainer in Smash 4 because I legitimately think she looks fun and exciting. Palutena is somebody that I've wanted for a very, very long time, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let the opinions of others weight me down.

Each to their own and whatnot. I'll play Palutena and you can keep your "OP-waifu-Sakurai-bias" inside your heads for all I care, because I'll be too busy having fun with Ladypal and the fine people of this here thread. ;3

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I read somewhere that Palutena's fair is like Zeldas.

Someone confirm pls

 

[Zwzchow]

I read somewhere that Palutena's fair is like Zeldas.

Someone confirm pls

That's according to Zipzo I think

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hello I am back I deliverely didn't come to the boards all day today out of fear of me getting mad at the Rate thread, I am normally really cold headed, but with stupid reasons I just can barely stand, since I have other things to worry or getting mad in real live, other times I have defended or argued with people but I just wasn't in the mod today. I am only waiting until her official score is announced and see if she did any better than last time.

But let's face it people we support an underdog, people simply are becoming too salty over "questionable" additions like Palutena because, with the inminent release of the game their dream character becomes more unlikely. I am not going to generalize but Mother and Star Fox fans seems to be salty as well because of the whole Lucas and Wolf cut but Dark Pit is in but their irritation didn't stop with Dark Pit alone, some people were talking how KI don't deserve 3 reps and that Star Fox is bigger.

I just hope people stop bashing on other series just because theirs didn't make it, it isn't the characters fault that theirs aren't in the game, it was a gameplay decision.

I personally will miss the Ice Climbers and you don't see me bashing DHD just because he is the new retro

I'm always the guy who wants as much fellas from every series as possible, as long as they're significant to their series, or just big fan favourites.
It's never fun to see cuts - or characters not making in. Even worse being that they could get ridiculed hard. But indeed, at the end it's gameplay part.
I mostly wish Sakurai talked more about that instead of rubbing on peoples' faces about how some character wasn't just worth it in his eyes. He tends to give that sort of image time to time, and I personally despise it with all my heart. (Waluigi and Chrom.)

I'm more of neutral guy to what is being said about Palutena's inclusion, as I can see their viewpoint. It can get pretty generalizing which looks ridiculous. But eh, Smash Bros-fandom is pretty damn salty of a fandom and series.

How one reacts to not getting their characters they wanted making cut, while others seem to, is quite enough to tell about a person.
Like again, I'm disappointed on Sakurai driving this sense of disappointment even further with his jokefully merciless way of treating characters time to time to explain how they weren't either in the initial planned roster, or just didn't work to the gameplay enough. Though to be fair, trying to avert that would ask to make them semi-playable or something. (But hey, alts... and Final Smash-cameos... IDK).

On Pittoo being a clone, it shouldn't be surprising at this point. I personally think Sakurai tries to cram in as much Uprising as possible to SSB4. Personally I'm just gonna roll with it instead of yacking about my biased roster preferences. This is a game for fans, but not developed by fans. And who knows, Sakurai wants to celebrate things he likes or have made, in his own game.

I'm sure there shouldn't be any problem with that.

 

[<π]

In the grand scheme of things, tiers make about as much difference to the game as spitting at the sun. We can argue statistics and data all day and all night, but ultimately, I don't see how they affect a character's actual qualities. I've seen Brawl matches where CPU Zelda has consistently beaten CPU Meta Knight, and quite comfortably, too. It all ultimately comes down to the brass tacks of how you play the character and the time and effort you put into learning how to play them.

My brother mains Ganondorf in Brawl. He's easily among the best players I've ever seen and could quite earnestly compete in a professional tournament and come out smiling. He also plays the likes of Marth and Mr Game & Watch: all entirely different characters at various stages of the official tier list. He's good at the game because he works hard and plays hard. Conversely, he is, by his own admission, god-awful as Meta Knight and Diddy Kong - even though he's tried to play them just to see if they're any good for him. It has nothing to do with how "naturally" good a character is or how they reputedly rank against other characters.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against tiers as an objective area of research. It's interesting to know where my favourite characters lie on the tier list (in Brawl, at least, it's almost entirely in the middle). It's just not my cup of tea, personally, to play a character I have no interest in just for the sake of winning. I'd rather lose honourably and enjoy myself than play simply to win for the sake of prestige and glory.

So, when push comes to shove, I don't honestly mind whereabouts Palutena is on the tier list. She could be queen of the world or a dead-end loser and I'd still play her.

I don't want to jump in here and blow up anyones ideals or thought processes... I just wanted to follow this and say something cool like "I'll be in the lab breaking this lady down!" and then leave... but I just wanted to shed some light on how teir lists work and the logic behind them.

I've been playing these game for a long time. In melee I considered myself a samus main pichu sub... I put countless hours into both characters, learning and memorizing frame data, figuring out things no one else knew! At the time pichu was concidered the worst character in the game and I was out to prove that was wrong.

I mean... pichu hurt's itself but after you get past that pichu has the fastest moveset in the game. some of the best hit trajectories. top 3 recovery. chain grabs and 0 to death combos on some of the best characters! So why was she low tier? Well part of what you said is right people have these preconceived notions about characters and then they will no longer put in time and effort into figuring out what the characters true weaknesses are and how to over come those weaknesses. I'm not a name you hear of often but I've beaten COUNTLESS people with my pichu and have come really close to taking sets off some of the better smashers mains. Pichu never moved a spot on the list.

Pichu had a lot of amazing strengths! Even today I think pichu is WAY better than percived. but at the top level with literally years of research and preperation in a very limited play space there is a best in almost every situation. Pichu has these very hard to get around flaws. Range being the biggest one, (kind of like with brawl gannondorf) you needed amazing reads (bassically guesses) to get in and start your combos and build your damage. This coupled with the fact that pichu is a very unforgiving character made pichus best match ups very difficult. a few good hits and you were dead because the best characters have very safe very powerful kill options, the best characters have great zoning tools, the best characters can chain grab you too, the best characters can our prioritize all over your safest options.

In brawl I main sheik. I was recognized as one of, if not the best, sheik in the world! I had amazing victories over top players in one of the top regions in the world. but that didn't detract from sheik's issues. She couldn't kill safely or reliably. she could rack damage. force approaches, go on the offensive. She had some of the best tools in the game! But she couldn't capitalize on them reliably like the top characters could. She was lacking important things they had. Could I overcome those things? Definitely, I have and did several times!, but it was always an uphill battle.

Being realistic about you character's weaknesses is not all that important if you want to be the best at your character, but you absolutely need to be realistic about you weaknesses, and willing to leave your character behind if you can not reliably overcome them if you want to be the best at the game. I don't really care about teir lists as much as I did when I was younger; when I was out to prove the world wrong, at the end of the day they don't really matter. I am 100% for mastering your main investing time and effort into them so YOU know what they are good at and don't need other people's list to show you. but I also feel YOU, if your goal is to be a world class player, need to be willing to admit, "man... I am not getting the results I need because I can't over come this situation." or "I know if I could just get this technique down I would be able to net kills... but it been 6 months and still can't even do it half of the time... maybe I need to figure something else out, or move on."

TL;DR
If you want to be the best, be realistic about your character's limitations; both good and bad.

 

[Admiral Pit]

That's really well said. It reminds me of my Brawl Pit days. He was nothing more than a mid tier in the US, yet higher up in Japan. Granted, I don't do anything offline related, but that shouldn't mean players should shoot me down and instantly think I'm terrible, even despite my "rants about hating top tiers and such" episodes. Some did consider me to have great potential with the character though I could be better if I changed my mindset and grudges towards the top tiers... Sadly my little temper makes it hard to overcome that.

Regardless, I will aim to be known as a high-potential Palutena main, just like I was for Pit back then. I may be online only, but that still shouldn't cloud one's judgment of their potential and skills. You can count on me especially if I get enough data and experience. And remember it isn't all about offline. Sure it probably is better, but it isn't the only method out there. For me, I shall be determined to be a great online Palutena player and Pit if possible, and I'm looking forward to impressing many names with open minds.

 

[<π]

I don't want to be "the best at X" I want to the best in the world period. (I guess that would make me the best at what ever I main though huh?) I want to take the shortest path to get there.

 

[Admiral Pit]

As much as I want to be that way, it can prove to be too stressful to me. Honestly, being one of the best of a main you choose is good enough for me, but it doesn't hurt to push further I suppose. We'll see what happens once I get much more Pit and Palutena data, and I'm sure the Japanese footage I requested will go through, and I can study early before its release in the U.S. I got quite the plans if all this works out.

 

[Wintropy]

I don't want to jump in here and blow up anyones ideals or thought processes... I just wanted to follow this and say something cool like "I'll be in the lab breaking this lady down!" and then leave... but I just wanted to shed some light on how teir lists work and the logic behind them.

I've been playing these game for a long time. In melee I considered myself a samus main pichu sub... I put countless hours into both characters, learning and memorizing frame data, figuring out things no one else knew! At the time pichu was concidered the worst character in the game and I was out to prove that was wrong.

I mean... pichu hurt's itself but after you get past that pichu has the fastest moveset in the game. some of the best hit trajectories. top 3 recovery. chain grabs and 0 to death combos on some of the best characters! So why was she low tier? Well part of what you said is right people have these preconceived notions about characters and then they will no longer put in time and effort into figuring out what the characters true weaknesses are and how to over come those weaknesses. I'm not a name you hear of often but I've beaten COUNTLESS people with my pichu and have come really close to taking sets off some of the better smashers mains. Pichu never moved a spot on the list.

Pichu had a lot of amazing strengths! Even today I think pichu is WAY better than percived. but at the top level with literally years of research and preperation in a very limited play space there is a best in almost every situation. Pichu has these very hard to get around flaws. Range being the biggest one, (kind of like with brawl gannondorf) you needed amazing reads (bassically guesses) to get in and start your combos and build your damage. This coupled with the fact that pichu is a very unforgiving character made pichus best match ups very difficult. a few good hits and you were dead because the best characters have very safe very powerful kill options, the best characters have great zoning tools, the best characters can chain grab you too, the best characters can our prioritize all over your safest options.

In brawl I main sheik. I was recognized as one of, if not the best, sheik in the world! I had amazing victories over top players in one of the top regions in the world. but that didn't detract from sheik's issues. She couldn't kill safely or reliably. she could rack damage. force approaches, go on the offensive. She had some of the best tools in the game! But she couldn't capitalize on them reliably like the top characters could. She was lacking important things they had. Could I overcome those things? Definitely, I have and did several times!, but it was always an uphill battle.

Being realistic about you character's weaknesses is not all that important if you want to be the best at your character, but you absolutely need to be realistic about you weaknesses, and willing to leave your character behind if you can not reliably overcome them if you want to be the best at the game. I don't really care about teir lists as much as I did when I was younger; when I was out to prove the world wrong, at the end of the day they don't really matter. I am 100% for mastering your main investing time and effort into them so YOU know what they are good at and don't need other people's list to show you. but I also feel YOU, if your goal is to be a world class player, need to be willing to admit, "man... I am not getting the results I need because I can't over come this situation." or "I know if I could just get this technique down I would be able to net kills... but it been 6 months and still can't even do it half of the time... maybe I need to figure something else out, or move on."

TL;DR
If you want to be the best, be realistic about your character's limitations; both good and bad.

Well said indeed and very respectable points. I will say, though, that I'm choosing to take the term "you" as a rhetorical statement: I have no intention of being "the best", and I should hope my post made that adequately clear. ;3

I'm not one to "leave characters behind" just because they don't work for me, but again, that's because I don't play to win. Your system obviously works for you, and that's fine - I will congratulate you on your progress thus far and wish you all the best in your journeys ahead. All I'm saying is, regardless of how Palutena (or any character, for that matter) plays and is perceived by the greater community, I don't feel bothered by it. All that matters to me is that she's there and I can enjoy doing what I love doing best. ^_^

 

[<π]

Well said indeed and very respectable points. I will say, though, that I'm choosing to take the term "you" as a rhetorical statement: I have no intention of being "the best", and I should hope my post made that adequately clear. ;3

I'm not one to "leave characters behind" just because they don't work for me, but again, that's because I don't play to win. Your system obviously works for you, and that's fine - I will congratulate you on your progress thus far and wish you all the best in your journeys ahead. All I'm saying is, regardless of how Palutena (or any character, for that matter) plays and is perceived by the greater community, I don't feel bothered by it. All that matters to me is that she's there and I can enjoy doing what I love doing best. ^_^

Yeah I didn't literally mean you, and I meant no offence. I've never really played with a "I want to be the best" mind set... not till now. I wanted to stay true to my character and prove that no mater what the obstacle I could over come it with effort and work, and while I still believe that to be true. with enough work and effort you can achive any goal. I just think often times there can be a easier path to achieving your goals if you are will to make sacrifices. I would love it if I can win tournaments with Palu. I'm going to be investing a lot of time into understanding whether or not I can do that her (or sheik, or samus, or zelda, or Robin)! But I'm not commented any one character, I have to get the most out of the effort I'm putting in.

I have a wife and kids and stuff now so if I'm going to invest tons of time into a video game I want to get something back from it now.