2013 Community Tier List

[HyugaRicdeau]

I would suggest that if any version is to be used as a standard, it should be 1.2 because it's certainly the most prevalent. I wish 1.0 was, but them's the facts.

 

[Senortesta]

Local noob from NY
Only been to 3 tournaments and have been playing for a little over a year
No Johns 5/4/13- $10 venue $10 bracket bad/20
Rescue 2 $10 venue $10 bracket 13/15
Some NYU tourney $10 venue $bracket 2/8 in amateur bracket 17/25 in real bracket
Irish Mafia, Captain Smuckers, Hax and m2k maybe (I played them in friendlies for like 20 minutes)



1. Shiek
2. Falco
3. Fox
4. Marth
5. JigglyPuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Dr.Mario
10. Pikachu
11. Ganondorf
12. Samus
13. Mario
14. Young Link
15. Luigi
16. Donkey Kong
17. Link
18. Roy
19. Zelda
20. Mewtwo
21. Game and Watch
22. Ness
23. Yoshi
24. Bowser
25. Pichu
26. Kirby

 

[FourStar]

wow i like how pikachu is moving up on most lists :D

 

[Obi-Wan Jabroni]

My credentials are that i'm a jedi.

S tier
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Peach

A tier
Marth
Puff
Falcon
Doc

IC's tier
Ice climbers

B tier
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi

C tier
Mario
Yoshi
Ylink
DK
Link

D
Zelda
Roy
Bowser
Ness
Mr. G&W

E
Pichu
Kirby

 

[JPOBS]

• Top placings. Make sure to include this information:

Idk like, 9th at a Toronto monthly?

• Best tournament victories

Man this one time, me and my buddy sauc3 played raynex and unknown522 is doubles. and they tried to pull some double ganon nonsense on us in WF and we totally whooped em hardcore. Sh*t was so cash

• Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known.

One time I had a hella close set with ORLY at SWEET IV. that dude is the homie. Then Big D styled on my punk ass in the crew battle haha good times

• Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided.

anyone in the toronto scene knows i used to be THAT DUDE when i still played this game. Holla at em
Falco (its 2013 guiz)
Fox
Sheik
Jiggs
Peach
Marth (sucks)
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Pika
Ganon
Samoose
Luigi
Mario
Dk
Yl
zelda
link
Mew2
G&W
Yoshi
Roy
Bowser
Pichu
Ness
Kirby

 

[FourStar]

please people. luigi sucks why do people continue to praise him as a better character then say mario or YL or link?

 

[Diakonos]

I still watch videos and play from time to time.

• Top placings.
  • 25th at Apex 2013
  • 25th at Apex 2010
  • 3rd at TourneyPlay
  • 1st - 3rd at many BC tournaments
• Best tournament victories: I've taken sets off Sion, BO10, Dieslow, Kage, Silent Wolf, and other top northwest players. I've taken tournament matches off of several top players (Jman, Zhu, Shiz, Wobbles, etc...) and regular matches off of most top players I've played.
• Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with: players who placed around 25 at Apex 2013?
• Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided: Y'all know me, still the same old G., but I been low key... hated on by most these ****** wit no cheese, no deals and no G's; No wheels and no keys, no boats no snowmobiles, and no ski's...

1. Falco
2. Fox
3. Jigglypuff
4. Sheik
5. Marth (agreed, sucks)
6. Peach
7. Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Pikachu
10. Doctor Mario
11. Samus
12. Ganondorf
13. Luigi
14. Mario
15. Link
16. Donkey Kong
17. Zelda
18. Yoshi
19. Young Link
20. Game & Watch
21. Roy
22. Mewtwo
23. Bowser
24. Pichu
25. Ness
26. Kirby
My list is generally pragmatic (which characters tend to place well in tournaments?) while allowing for the possibility that a player just might be really, really good with a character (cf. Armada).
I am not very certain about spots 9-13 or so, or 17-21. It seems to me that these are pretty variable and are likely to change as certain players push the limits with these characters.

 

[PGH Carroll]

Luigi is bull****
Shameless pittsburgh luigi bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIE-4qmbefEAnd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBPvzJbuoI

 

[DippnDots]

I'm focusing primarily on the tier, but I will be listing the characters in order of my personal thoughts inside the tier.

***I am likely rating Jigglypuff and Peach higher than they should be, because I'm bad at playing against them but will cite mang0/hungrybox/armada for placement justification.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

S Class:
Jigglypuff, Peach, Falco

A Class:
Fox, Sheik, Marth

B Class:
Ice Climbers, Falcon, Pikachu

(Dr. Mario could be argued for B Class in my mind, but if he was I think Ganon would then have an argument for it too, and then so would Samus, but it would cut off there. This is basically how I drew the line.)

C Class:
Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Samus, Mario, Luigi

(Begin "low tier")
D Class:
Young Link, DK, Zelda

F Class:
The rest (with Kirby on the absolute bottom)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The classes here are not necessarily to reflect raw character potential, but rather what we have been seeing in terms of tournament results. I ranked Jigglypuff as number 1 because my mang0 fanboyism thinks if he were to play puff again, he would indeed continue to dominate, I'm pretty sure mang0's not puff could solidly beat Armada's young link.

In my mind, I put Pikachu up in B class because he has better matches ups against the top tiers than people below him, plus I feel Axe consistently places higher than anyone who mains characters below Pikachu's tier placing, exception perhaps being Shroomed.

Random Sidenote: I think actual tier discussion in Melee is so vastly more complicated than in most other fighters simply because of the stage elements / how there is percent instead of stamina.

 

[Max?]

please people. luigi sucks why do people continue to praise him as a better character then say mario or YL or link?

He has better combos, edgeguarding and movement then the characters you listed. His offensive potential when placed in the right hands is very strong.

 

[Baxon]

Holy crap! What a convincing argument. Changing my vote now. Thanks for enlightening me Baxon <3

you're welcome =D
It's just my opinion bro, don't be mad...
Fox is way Faster, Can gimp easy, can changrab, can camp with double lazer (wich is hard to punish)
Have a WAAAY better recovery, harder to gimp cause his Up-B burns....
<3
__________________________________
Edit: I just watched Hyngrybox, Hax, VaNz & Bladewise lists
(i think they are the best players who posted their lists)
And guess what ?
They also put Fox higher than Falco :D
Much Love from paris <3

 

[Purpletuce]

Fox can gimp about as well as Falco. Falco's main gimp move, D-air, gimps with a 12x larger margin for error than Fox's (shine). CG only really matters on Fox vs. Falco on FD, everywhere else it is only a slight advantage. Fox's camping is easier to punish than Falco's (his lasers don't have hitstun). Fox doesn't have a way better recovery, his DJ is worse and his side B is slower, but he has longer upB and sideB, so Falco gets more versatility at the cost of a little length. Falco's recovery is only slightly worse IMO.

Although Falco has super easy stage control that Fox doesn't, an approach that is harder to punish, and his shine combos the entire cast with great follow ups, easier than Fox's.

Why do spacie players always think that the 1 and a half weaknesses their character has are the only things that matter? There is a reason that Fox mains occasionally become Falco mains, and Falco mains rarely become Fox mains. It is similar to the reason you see non-spacie players become spacie players, but you don't really see spacie players become non-spacie players.

 

[Bones0]

Fox can gimp about as well as Falco. Falco's main gimp move, D-air, gimps with a 12x larger margin for error than Fox's (shine). CG only really matters on Fox vs. Falco on FD, everywhere else it is only a slight advantage. Fox's camping is easier to punish than Falco's (his lasers don't have hitstun). Fox doesn't have a way better recovery, his DJ is worse and his side B is slower, but he has longer upB and sideB, so Falco gets more versatility at the cost of a little length. Falco's recovery is only slightly worse IMO.

Although Falco has super easy stage control that Fox doesn't, an approach that is harder to punish, and his shine combos the entire cast with great follow ups, easier than Fox's.

Why do spacie players always think that the 1 and a half weaknesses their character has are the only things that matter? There is a reason that Fox mains occasionally become Falco mains, and Falco mains rarely become Fox mains. It is similar to the reason you see non-spacie players become spacie players, but you don't really see spacie players become non-spacie players.

lol @ the first sentence. It's virtually unanimous that Fox gimps better unless you're counting double dairs by the ledge at 50%+ as gimps. As far as who people play, that is irrelevant. Just because people switch thinking it will help them doesn't mean it will. Also, Falco players are much more likely to use Fox as a tourney secondary for certain matchups than vice versa.

 

[Divinokage]

Do I really need to put all the information? It really sounds like showing off... lol.

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jigglypuff
Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Samus
Pikachu
Ganondorf
Luigi
Mario
Yoshi
Young Link
Link
Mewtwo
Donkey Kong
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Roy
Bowser
Zelda
Kirby
Pichu

 

[Bones0]

Do I really need to put all the information? It really sounds like showing off... lol.

I'll do it for you.


Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known:

Mango, 2-0 (I was hung over during all of our other sets.)

 

[Mogwai]

^ no credentials listed, discount this noob list.

EDIT: DAMNIT BONES, DON'T MAKE ME BAN YOU!

 

[Bones0]

^ no credentials listed, discount this noob list.

EDIT: DAMNIT BONES, DON'T MAKE ME BAN YOU!

Bring it, *****.

 

[Diakonos]

In general, Falco performs better than Fox in tournaments. Why is that? It seems to me that Fox has the potential to be better, but it is very, very hard. It is very difficult to be excellent with Falco, but more people seem able to do it with him than with Fox.

I think part of it is that Falco has more guaranteed combos at lower percent, whereas Fox has to make a couple of guesses or else stop and restart combos. Those first 50% really determine the pace of the stock and therefore matches, because at top levels most (usable) characters have strong enough edgeguards to keep the opponent dead. I find that Falco is also a bit more forgiving in terms of reads and continuing combos. If you screw up a combo or guess wrong with Fox, you will often be put on the defensive, whereas the gracious Falco often gives you multiple options. I suppose someone who is very good at reading the opponent or else has excellent, aggressive movement with Fox (think Mango) might be able to overcome these difficulties. But then again, have you seen Mango's Falco?

Falco over Fox. The results speak for themselves.

 

[Divinokage]

In general, Falco performs better than Fox in tournaments. Why is that? It seems to me that Fox has the potential to be better, but it is very, very hard. It is very difficult to be excellent with Falco, but more people seem able to do it with him than with Fox.

I think part of it is that Falco has more guaranteed combos at lower percent, whereas Fox has to make a couple of guesses or else stop and restart combos. Those first 50% really determine the pace of the stock and therefore matches, because at top levels most (usable) characters have strong enough edgeguards to keep the opponent dead. I find that Falco is also a bit more forgiving in terms of reads and continuing combos. If you screw up a combo or guess wrong with Fox, you will often be put on the defensive, whereas the gracious Falco often gives you multiple options. I suppose someone who is very good at reading the opponent or else has excellent, aggressive movement with Fox (think Mango) might be able to overcome these difficulties. But then again, have you seen Mango's Falco?

Falco over Fox. The results speak for themselves.

You sure didn't hesitate to put YOUR credentials.. lol.

If that's the case, then what business does anyone have trying to place Jiggs on a tier list? Literally no one other than Hbox (I guess one could argue Mango as well) knows that character extensively enough, which is why we don't see anyone else picking up Jiggs and doing well. We have no data. Going by results, Jiggs doesn't deserve to drop; she might even deserve to rise past one or both of the spacees. Hbox usually nets top 4 in any tournament he enters......if he doesn't just win it. Going by MUs, well, why are we going off of MUs when no one even really knows what Jiggs MUs truly looks like? Nobody can figure out exactly who beats Jiggs and who doesn't. It's just people's uneducated opinions that cause them to believe that Jiggs is worse than Sheik or Marth, I feel. There's only one Jiggs player who matters and he hasn't given any indication of Jiggs not being a top 3 character.

Hbox being the only notable Jiggs main brings up another problem with trying to place her on a tier list. We have no idea if she's being played optimally or not. We're assuming that Hbox's style of playing is the perfect style for Jiggs because he wins tournaments, but what if there's something better that he simply isn't doing. We'd never know because he doesn't do it and it would be a very long while before we found out because he is the only person playing Jiggs well. In a nutshell, we can't claim to really know anything about Jiggs aside from what we've seen, because no one else can pick up the character and do things with her.

That's a pretty crazy argument.. Just because he's the only one that plays Jiggs doesn't mean other players can't make correct observation for Jiggs potential. You don't have to play her yourself, playing against her at the top level is already a good indication. This has been done already for years so it's not like the Jiggs matchup is an unknown one, I mean we already collected data from many players with most matchups anyways. If all top 4 Falcons say that Jiggs slightly beats Falcon then Id take their word for it over 1 guy who might have a bias towards his character.

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

Do I really need to put all the information? It really sounds like showing off... lol.

lmao at sounding like the most showing off

 

[SleepyK]

Credentials

Sometimes I play super smash brothers melee for the nintendo gamecube

been to tournaments since 2007 (stopped entering singles in 2010 or 2011)
placed 9th at Tipped Off 5, had 80-100 people
5th at HERB 3, had 60-80 people?

placed well in teams at a couple of decently sized tournaments i suppose, 3rd with Toph at a norcal local recently.

former MBR member twice

as far as even skill goes i'm not sure anymore, but I intend to find out.
You could contact Druggedfox or Fullmetal about my skill level, although I haven't seen fullmetal in quite some time.


Fox
Falco
Sheik
Peach
Marth
Jiggs
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Pikachu
Mario
Link
Young Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Zelda
Game & Watch
Roy
Bowser
Ness
Pichu
Kirby


some stuff

so there's a big debate in terms of ssbm as to whether our tier list should be based off of tournament results, matchup charts, or personal opinions. i've talked to a number of people who play 2d fightans about it and most of them seem to agree that it should be based off of matchup charts. the issue with this in super smash brothers melee for the nintendo gamecube is that most of the matchups are highly debatable because they differ based on player opinion. even the top players can carry differing opinions on matchups regardless of their consistent results against other top players.

so we need to come to some kind of consensus regarding what we define a tier list as.

i like to think that sheik is on par with the space animals in some sense. clearly worse than fox but debatably close with falco. i can't explain all the frame data as well as kirbykaze could, but her frame traps and numerous options (including out of shield options) let her fight the space animals. she also absolutely crushes low tiers and has advantages vs marth and peach whereas falco has an even matchup with the two. I'd still give falco the slight edge atm due to his invulnerable, one-frame, jump-cancellable move. he also has more consistent tournament results, but I dunno how heavily I weigh that into my tier list.

I would also tie young link and link. I could be persuaded to give young link a higher placing due to his ability to shut down characters slower than he is and because he's not as comboable as link. link does have more solid normals and aerials and does combo the high tiers more easily, so i guess i'd have to ask for top player opinion.

after that point my tiering becomes a bit hazy - i like to think that luigi isn't this low on the list, but i suppose if we were allowed categories then i'd ensure he'd be in the same general mid tiering area.

 

[Divinokage]

lmao at sounding like the most showing off

Just being honest, not like i can say anything on the contrary lol.

Also, Ill vouch for Sleepyk's credentials.

 

[SleepyK]

aw thanks
also pengie i c u lurkin

 

[Diakonos]

You sure didn't hesitate to put YOUR credentials.. lol.

Haha, I just followed the rules and wrote some stuff off the top of my head. I'm not an elite player by any means so I don't think I can just say "i'm diakonos lol".

 

[SleepyK]

that wc ec canada rivalry

 

[Cummings]

Been playin for about a year in tryhard mode in the CT area. Haven't taken any games off of anybody notable so I guess you could call me a n00b or whatever. I like to think the things that make a character good are how threatening they are when things are even, and consistency. I don't believe tournament results are a good representation of how tier lists should be represented because players don't choose their characters when they understand the game like they do in top-level play, and player skill is completely independent of character feasibility over time.

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Pikachu
Mario
Luigi
Young Link
Donkey Kong
Link
Yoshi
Roy
Zelda
Mr. Game & Watch
Bowser
Ness
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby

 

[pokemongeof]

Luigi is bull****
Shameless pittsburgh luigi bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIE-4qmbefEAnd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBPvzJbuoI

please people. luigi sucks why do people continue to praise him as a better character then say mario or YL or link?

Do not underestimate the green machine

 

[FourStar]

Do not underestimate the green machine

I dont underestimate at all. instead i kick his ****ing ass

 

[FourStar]

I'm still stick to my guns with my tier list
S:
1. Fox (+0)
2. Falco (+0)
3. Sheik (+1)
A:
4. Peach (+2)
5. Jigglypuff (-2)
6. Marth (-1)
B:
7. Ice Climbers (+1)
8. C. Falcon (-1)
9. Pikachu (+3)
C:
10. Dr. Mario (-1)
11. Samus (+0)
12. Ganondorf (-2)
D:
13. Mario (+0)
14. Link (+2
15. Young Link (+2)
16. Mewtwo (+4)
E:
17. Luigi (-3)
18. Donkey Kong (-3)
19. Roy (+0)
20. Zelda (-2)
F:
21. Yoshi (+0)
22. Mr. Game and Watch (+0)
23. Ness (+0)
G:
24. Kirby (+2)
25. Bowser (-1)
26. Pichu (+0)

 

[Memory]

Came in 2nd at a small local. Played in teams at another local but didn't do so well. Not much tournament experience really, but I play alomst every weekday with multiple people and am always up to date with the current metagame and tournies.

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Jiggs
Peach
Captain Falcon
Icies
Luigi
Ganon
Dr Mario
Pikachu
Samus
YL
Ness
Yoshi
Mario
DK
Kirby
Link
Zelda
Bowser
Roy
Game and Watch
Mewtwo
Pichu

My list is pretty standard but there's some slight re-orderings from the norm. I think Marth is better than Sheik currently. Both characters are definitely close, but I feel Marth has more potential as a character. He just feels like he exerts a lot more pressure than sheik who tends to play more methodically. I feel he has more combo potential and can outspace better than sheik. Their edgeguarding is about the same. Marth also gets FD against spacies sometimes which can heavily tilt the balance of a match. Sheik doesn't really have a stage that can do this.

I also ranked Luigi higher than most. I think Luigi has a lot of potential and one of his only major flaws is his horrible recovery. He has solid on stage combos on most of the cast and can edgeguard well. His long wavedash also gives him crazy movement. I feel Luigi completely destroys most of the characters I've listed below him, and he even has high percent combos on spacies. Not to mention fox can't really combo him out of a shine.

 

[FourStar]

Came in 2nd at a small local. Played in teams at another local but didn't do so well. Not much tournament experience really, but I play alomst every weekday with multiple people and am always up to date with the current metagame and tournies.

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Jiggs
Peach
Captain Falcon
Icies
Luigi
Ganon
Dr Mario
Pikachu
Samus
YL
Ness
Yoshi
Mario
DK
Kirby
Link
Zelda
Bowser
Roy
Game and Watch
Mewtwo
Pichu

My list is pretty standard but there's some slight re-orderings from the norm. I think Marth is better than Sheik currently. Both characters are definitely close, but I feel Marth has more potential as a character. He just feels like he exerts a lot more pressure than sheik who tends to play more methodically. I feel he has more combo potential and can outspace better than sheik. Their edgeguarding is about the same. Marth also gets FD against spacies sometimes which can heavily tilt the balance of a match. Sheik doesn't really have a stage that can do this.

I also ranked Luigi higher than most. I think Luigi has a lot of potential and one of his only major flaws is his horrible recovery. He has solid on stage combos on most of the cast and can edgeguard well. His long wavedash also gives him crazy movement. I feel Luigi completely destroys most of the characters I've listed below him, and he even has high percent combos on spacies. Not to mention fox can't really combo him out of a shine.

once again i'm sticking to my guns with Pika. he has so much more potential than luigi. pika has a mch better rocovery than luigi.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

FourStar, when you quote your list please mark that it is just a quoted list. I almost disqualified you for submitting multiple votes.

 

[Get Low]

once again i'm sticking to my guns with Pika. he has so much more potential than luigi. pika has a mch better rocovery than luigi.

I wish so badly that you could play against Vudujin. Playing against him alone would show you how strong Luigi is, and how amazing his recovery actually is.

 

[FourStar]

I wish so badly that you could play against Vudujin. Playing against him alone would show you how strong Luigi is, and how amazing his recovery actually is.

one person is not going to change my opinion. really how i feel about a character is really what i see in tournaments and how i play with that character.

FourStar, when you quote your list please mark that it is just a quoted list. I almost disqualified you for submitting multiple votes.

oh sorry i meant to do that

 

[Purpletuce]

Wait. . . are you aware of how high you placed Pika? One person. . .

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Wait. . . are you aware of how high you placed Pika? One person. . .

He also said it's based on how he plays with that character, and he mains Pikachu.

 

[Purpletuce]

I bet you he placed Peach/Puff pretty high.

I think if you're trying to determine the potential of a character, one person alone can show you that what they're accomplishing is within that character's potential (and you can probably assume that the character has more potential that that.)

 

[FourStar]

I bet you he placed Peach/Puff pretty high.

I think if you're trying to determine the potential of a character, one person alone can show you that what they're accomplishing is within that character's potential (and you can probably assume that the character has more potential that that.)

have you seen my tier list? i still didn't put puff or peach in the S tier. and yea i put pika higher but that's cuz i've seen him improve a lot with the current metagame

 

[Purpletuce]

I was saying I bet. I have seen your list, but I don't really remember anything from it except for high Pika placement (you've talked about that several times, so I remembered it). We shouldn't have any characters in S tier, we're only supposed to post their order

 

[FourStar]

I was saying I bet. I have seen your list, but I don't really remember anything from it except for high Pika placement (you've talked about that several times, so I remembered it). We shouldn't have any characters in S tier, we're only supposed to post their order

LOL well i saw someone do it and i figured why not since i like organization