2013 Community Tier List

[Pengie]

Since when does Luigi have a lackluster moveset? His aerials are pretty damn good, as are his u-tilt, d-smash, and his grab isn't bad either.

Sure he has good aerials, but using them involves Luigi jumping which means he'll probably get punished for even trying to use them >.> It's not enough to have good moves; you have to be able to actually use them, and Luigi definitely has trouble making use of his good moves because he can't get in good positions to make use of them.

 

[phish-it]

Luigi is one of the hardest if not the hardest character in Melee to combo.

 

[FourStar]

Luigi is one of the hardest if not the hardest character in Melee to combo.

Really? i use pikachu and my god i find it so easy to combo with him

 

[Bones0]

I don't think anyone who doesn't play as or against Luigi on some consistent basis should try to comment on how he is played. He is really unique, and definitely not as linear as some people seem to want to let on.

 

[Pengie]

Luigi is one of the hardest if not the hardest character in Melee to combo.

If you mean actual, keeping him in hit stun combos then sure he's hard to combo, but stringing together hits on Luigi is ridiculously easy because his aerial mobility is so horrid. Almost every character except for maybe Peach and Jiggs can keep Luigi above them and kill him by hitting him over or by DD grabbing him as he lands over and over which might as well be a combo because there really isn't much that Luigi can do about it.

 

[Purpletuce]

Yeah, Allen and I play with a Luigi main often(his brother), Luigi is better than he superficially looks. Although you can't combo hit with hitstun very easy, he is pretty easy to positionally combo. (Instead of going for F-air strings with Marth, youre better off with things like U-tilt so he is in the air, then stay below him and U-tilt him again if he tries to land.)

 

[BTmoney]

If you mean actual, keeping him in hit stun combos then sure he's hard to combo, but stringing together hits on Luigi is ridiculously easy because his aerial mobility is so horrid. Almost every character except for maybe Peach and Jiggs can keep Luigi above them and kill him by hitting him over or by DD grabbing him as he lands over and over which might as well be a combo because there really isn't much that Luigi can do about it.

+1

 

[Jiv]

+1

You could not be a douche and just like it you know

 

[Max?]

Pengie I would love to play you with my Luigi

 

[BTmoney]

You could not be a douche and just like it you know

Or I could be a "douche." Aren't you being the "douche" here, "douche"?

 

[AlienAllen]

As a Luigi main, he is quite bad
The issue with Luigi is actually his main strength as well.
Luigi has a terribad recovery combined with well Hi I'm on skateboard traction. Basically, he'll go off stage if he >>>shields<<< a move near the ledge. Due to the same issue, characters like marth can use aerials to simply swat Luigi away as his traction prevents many punishes. (Don't get me started with fox's shine)

His n-air is still the best move in the game though

Luigi definitely has some glaring weaknesses, such as his poor punish game and recovery. I was just saying that his moveset isn't one of those weaknesses.

His nair is so good.

In response to Pengie's comment: I agree with you. Having good aerials doesn't mean they can be used effectively. However, that would make his weakness mobility, not moveset.

To clarify, as Purpletuce said I play a Luigi main quite often.

 

[Kite91]

Gonna make a list later when I'm not on my phone
but I've been saying for years that pika should be higher than gannon and always got **** for it. glad some ppl agree

 

[Boat Mode]

Credentials: I'm still fairly new and fairly bad. I don't have any notable tournament wins. Furthest I ever made was 5th seed (or 7th) in my Apex 2013 bracket pool. But, I read a lot old and new discussion, play frequently, and have attended 15+ tournies including:

Apex 2012
Zenith 2012
FC10R
Rom 5
Apex 2013

Anyway, I base this off of a combination of my own experiences and everything I've witnessed since started following Melee again in late 2011.

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Peach
Puff
Marth
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi
Young Link
Mario
DK
Link
G&W
Zelda
Mewtwo
Yoshi
Roy
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

Pretty boring/standard/average 2013 listing, nobody cares I just wanted to vote lol

 

[FourStar]

Credentials: I'm still fairly new and fairly bad. I don't have any notable tournament wins. Furthest I ever made was 5th seed (or 7th) in my Apex 2013 bracket pool. But, I read a lot old and new discussion, play frequently, and have attended 15+ tournies including:

Apex 2012
Zenith 2012
FC10R
Rom 5
Apex 2013

Anyway, I base this off of a combination of my own experiences and everything I've witnessed since started following Melee again in late 2011.

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Peach
Puff
Marth
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi
Young Link
Mario
DK
Link
G&W
Zelda
Mewtwo
Yoshi
Roy
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

Pretty boring/standard/average 2013 listing, nobody cares I just wanted to vote lol

Just put LInk over DK and boom that would be the next tier list

 

[BTmoney]

Explanations should be mandatory imo

 

[Max?]

I got some time to kill so I'll take a stab at this.

• Top placings. Make sure to include this information:

In the last two years I've only gone to a handful of tournaments, but I usually get at least top 5 at Tristate/NE regionals (2nd out of 40~ at HoG (2/12), 3rd out of 30~ at Collision (9/12), 4th out of 20 at Sudden Death (1/12), 9th out of 80~ No Johns (8/11) etc etc) and always place very high in teams (9th out 120~ at Apex 2012, 4th out of ?? at Zenith 2012, 2nd out of ?? at Collision (9/12))

• Best tournament victories

Thorn, Eggm, Stric9, HBK, Swift, Zoso, Forward, Redd, The Moon, last stock last hit game 3 against Jman in his prime etc. etc. oh and G$, but he's free. I've also beaten countless people in teams with various partners, but it would take me too long to list/remember them all.

• Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known.

Couldn't say, I don't have time to go to tournies nowadays. The main people I play with are Hax and PC. I can keep up with Hax and go even with Chris. Feel free to use them as references as well as pretty much anyone in Tristate/NE. As of right now I'm probably 3rd or 4th in NY.




Falco
Fox
Sheik
Jiggs
Marth
Peach
Icies
Falcon
Doc
Pika
Samus
Luigi
Mario
Ganon
DK
Y. Link
Link
What other character are in this game again?

Some reasoning:
Since the last tier list, Falco has had the best results by far. Fox on paper is still the best, and there are rising top Fox players coming up now. I want to put Peach > Marth, but with Armada quitting and being the only Peach to really do anything on an international level, thats hard to say. Icies have out performed the Falcon's in recent years, tho Hax is a monster. Ganon is ass, and Luigi is REALLY slept on. No one plays Mario. I want to put DK into negligible tier, but meh. Link's matchups may be better overall than Y. Link's, but Y. Link has OK matchups vs. some of the floatier top/high tiers, which gives him more weight than Link.

 

[ElloEddy]

*sigh* I think the whole, "Young Link is better than Link" thing is a troll. I can agree on most placements, but not this. Someone tell me why you think Young Link is better.

faster, more combos, cant get comb'd as hard better recovery and if played campy RIP to all slow floaties , very annoying to deal with , another example there the same character with small changes but link gets ***** by jiggs and ylink can combat

 

[Bones0]

Link's recovery is definitely better than YL's.

 

[Mogwai]

Link's recovery is definitely better than YL's.

Eh, I honestly find them pretty comparable. Longer Hookshot vs. better natural horizontal movement. idk, it's been awhile since I've played much with Link/y.links, but from what I remember of playing D20 and Skler, their recoveries are very close.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

tier list vote

I know you want to be all "Im OTG i can do whatever I want" but I can't use your vote if there isn't a complete tier list and that entire block of text and whatever time you spent on it will be completely wasted. Please fix it sir

 

[Mogwai]

homie, he's OTG and he can do whatever he wants

 

[S l o X]

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

Peach
Puff
Falcon
Doc
IC

Pikachu
Samus
Luigi
Ganon

Mario
Young Link
DK
Yoshi
Link

Zelda
Bowser
G&W
Roy
Ness

Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu

Credentials: I have none.

Notes:
Fox / Sheik are tied for first.
There are a LOT of 50-50 matchups in the top 6ish characters.
- so many, seriously.

 

[goateeguy]

Irrelevant
Ganon
Mario
Young Link
DK
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Bowser
G&W
Roy
Ness
Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu

We really shouldn't disregard low tiers like that. I know Sveet is only considering rankings and not taking the tiers other people create into account, but it's a matter of principle. Young Link is definitely not irrelevant to Armada or Axe who prefer him in certain matchups they play. Ganon may not be the greatest character, but Kage did beat Mango with him. And Mario is really similar to Doc; true, he's probably a bit worse, but he's not so much worse that you can reasonably consider one of them A tier and the other negligible. There are too many examples of people doing well with these characters to simply refer to them as unusable (More examples: Taj's Mewtwo, Hungrybox's Ness, V3ctorman or Angel's Yoshi, Scorpion Master, Mofo's Ness, Cosmo's Zelda, Warrior Knight and DJ Nintendo's Bowser team, the list goes on).

Also, tier lists change; people find new tricks with characters they didn't consider as viable before. Discouraging people from experimenting with lower tier characters prevents the metagame from evolving.

Maybe you were just joking around but we shouldn't let low tier characters get this stigma that prevents people from playing them.

 

[S l o X]

Irrelevant to my interests but I'll edit it for you.

Doc has guaranteed kills off grab on so many of the high tiers. That alone puts him at least a tier above him to me.

 

[Comatose]

Tier note: IC goes above Puff if wobbling is legal but still in A tier.

You know wobbling isn't like this "godly grab" right? It really doesn't have a huggeeee impact on ICs game, I mean even without it Wobbles and Fly and other good ICs mains still place well, and even with wobbling legal it still doesn't have a huge impact. They place around the same as usual.

Just pointing this out due to the jump it would cause in his list. Would really not like to see this forum turn into another wobbling discussion. Seems this forum has gotten a bit off track already haha. I feel bad for Sveet having to sort through all of these haha.

May I suggest putting up a second forum for the discussion, then leaving this simply for the lists?

 

[SuperMatt]

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jigglypuff
Marth
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Doctor Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Luigi
Pikachu
Mario
Young Link
Donkey Kong
Link
Zelda
Mr. Game & Watch
Yoshi
Roy
Mewtwo
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

 

[S l o X]

not here to discuss my opinionated tier list. pm me i will teach you the basics of melee.

 

[BTmoney]

how many tournaments have you gone to and how many IC players have you played?

haha no need to call him out, although I too disagree

 

[Dart!]

Dart: Midwest

Won smym13 (100+ entrants 15$ singles entry)
Best victories (Darkrain, Kels, Lucky, Sfat, S2J,)


Fox
Falco
Puff
Sheik
Peach
Marth
Falcon
Pika
Doctor Mario
Samus
Ganon
Ice Climbers
DK
Luigi
Mario
Young Link
Link
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Mr GameandWatch
Zelda
Bowser
Roy
Kirby
Pichu
Ness

 

[zebra]

It is taboo to judge someone based on their skill, but in this case it is a necessary evil.

Well I'm pretty much your average scrub. Been playing since 2001, competitively since 2011, I try to go to most locals/regionals in CT/NE. I usually place not first, not last with varying results. Most tourneys are 15-35 people, been to nationals too such as Apex Pound 5 Zenith etc.

Who I actually beat: no one noteworthy, but I've taken games off of most semi-notable people in NE slox swift mdz twebb mafia kevinm and a few other northeast players eggm djn etc.

I'd say if you have any players that come to mind when you say "they're not bad", I'd be a little worse than those players when it comes to level.

As for references, anyone from CT, and most of NE knows who I am/has played me even if they don't remember.


Fox
Sheik
Falco
Marth

Jiggilypuff
Peach
Capt. Falcon
Ice Climbers

Dr. Mario
Samus
Pikachu
Ganondorf

Luigi
DK
Mario
Link/Young Link

Roy/Zelda
Yoshi
Mewtwo
G&W

Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

Fox

Well I think that Fox is just too good of a character as far as matchups against other top 10's, potential tech/combos, infinites, 0-deaths, chaingrabs, he does well against floaties & Sheik, shield pressure, pretty much everything else that comes to mind in today's meta, Fox just does well at it all. And let's be honest, playing a perfect Fox seems a lot harder to play at the top level (to me at least) than Sheik or Falco, which I think has played a major role in his popularity over the years.

Sheik/Falco

Had a hard time deciding on this one, and there was a point about 2-3 years ago where I believe Falco would have been the winner of this placing. However, in today's meta Sheik just has such a good movepool, ledge options, edgeguarding, combo/fast damage potential, chaingrabs, not to mention is undoubtedly the best character against almost all mid/low tiers matchup-wise. I think there's a good reason that M2K plays Sheik more than Marth nowadays. As for Falco, I think it's his lower learning curve that keeps him so high, but don't get me wrong he can do well in just about any matchup, has great combo potential, requires a lot of tech to play well, etc. I just think Sheik's set is overall slightly better

Marth

Let's face it: Tier lists are, in a large part, based on who the top players are playing at the time. Let's not forget that Marth was number 2 on the official 9th tier list, largely due to M2K's prowess with him. Nowadays, with the likes of Dr. PeePee, PPU, M2K, Mango, and more, all taking more of an interest in the character, there is no way Marth is worse than top 5, I just chose to place him above Jiggs for reasons I will now cover.

Jigglypuff

When its huge eyes light up, it sings a mysteriously soothing melody that lulls its enemies to sleep.

Another case of top players determining tiers, even at Genesis 1 with Mango's Puff, he wasn't taken too seriously until HBOX started to dominate with him a few years later. Think of a good Falco player in your head. Now think of the top 3 Falco players in the world. Now think of a local player you know that mains and plays Falco fairly well. Do the same with Fox, Marth, and Sheik. Pretty easy right? Now try to do the same with Jigglypuff.

Peach/Capt. Falcon

Another one I had a hard time with. Ultimately, I decided that Peaches overall higher placement, utility, and survivability land her firmly above Falcon in my opinion. Even though Falcon may be the People's Champion, he just can't stand in the top 6 the way Peach can.

Ice Climbers

Ice Climbers are good. They can infinite/0-death nearly everyone on the roster even without Wobbling. A classic case of an underplayed character, if Ice Climbers were more fun/easier to master, they'd be tied with Falcon in my opinion.

Dr. Mario

Good movepool, utility, decent chaining potential, fairly good recovery and ledge options. An all-around decent character.

Samus/Pikachu

Samus is underplayed in my opinion. Great punishes, the best recovery in the game (get outta here Jigglypuff), great long range harassment/poking with missiles and the occasional Charge Shot. Good smashes, good wavedash and aerial chaining. Another solid all-around good character. Pikachu just doesn't have as much potential in my opinion. His grab range and shield leave something to be desired. And although he can pull off great chaingrabs, chain aerials, he just doesn't quite match up to Samus.

Ganondorf

For one thing, playing on FD really cuts down on his movement in high-level play. His moves have a lot of lag. Sure they hit hard, and his jab is the best in the game, but he's just too slow and chunky to be any higher on my list.


Luigi | DK | Mario | Link/Young Link

Luigi has always been at the top of mid tier for me. I believe he is decisively better than Mario and Link/YL. He has incredibly good aerials, great grabs, an excellent recovery, and not to mention his wavedash... As for the others in this section, I will admite I don't know nearly enough about them to place them with absolute certainty. I just strongly believe that Link and Young Link are exactly tied for many reasons such as recoverys, options out of shield, effectiveness against higher tiers, etc.


Roy/Zelda | Yoshi | Mewtwo | G&W

If Marth wasn't in this game, Roy would be played more. Same with Zelda/Sheik. As for Yoshi, I think he is the most unique character in the game. Nearly everything about him is unlike any of the other characters. I think he has more potential but is just so strange that I wouldn't know where to start. Mewtwo is OK. He is too floaty/light to utilize most of his moveset IMO. Game & Watch's down-tilt and Up-B are immaculate. His smashes are godly. It's his aerials and floatiness that really bring him down IMO.


Ness | Bowser | Pichu | Kirby

Ness has more potential with YY glitches, etc. Bowser has insane invincibility, his up-b is very good, ledge game/edgeguarding are very nice. Unfortunately his movement speed, aerials, and smashes all have way too much lag/startup time, etc. to make this character viable. Pichu is definitely better than Kirby. I don't care if he damages himself.

Kirby is a pink fluffball of terrible.

 

[bubbaking]

I have the same references that dkuo has plus Sypherphoenix, Bones, KP, Redd, etc. Probably every good player in MD/VA has at least heard of me (good way or bad way, idk) at this point. I'm probably the best Samus in the region.............if that means anything in a non-FL region.

My list:
Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik

Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Doctor Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Pikachu

Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link

Yoshi
Roy
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Kirby
Bowser

Pichu

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Tier gaps denote a large difference in viability. "/" denotes a tie.

Question: Can we make these subject to change? If I change my opinion, will my vote be changed accordingly?

You should reread the OP...

actually, to make it easier for you, here (with bolding):

Voting Rules:


Please follow these rules carefully and completely, I will not be able to count your vote at all if you do not. I understand if you disagree with ordering some characters or another facet of the tier list, but this isn't the place to make your argument. If you have any comments or criticisms, please PM me or post on my visitor wall.

• You must order all characters.
  • If you see two characters as tied, order them in any way you would prefer. I plan to emphasize tier placement over ordering in the compiled list, so do not get strung up over details this small.
• You must include all characters. Please double check you have them all (there are 26 characters in melee).
• Do not include tier divisions, simply list the characters in order (vertically). Tier divisions will be determined after voting is done. If you would like to include divisions for discussion purposes, simply put a blank line where you feel the division is.
• Each Person only gets one vote. If you vote twice I will count neither. Feel free to go back and edit your post any time before the deadline.
• You are not required to post an explanation behind your tier list, but it encouraged especially if you have unique placings. I will not be using this information in the tier list itself, but it would be very beneficial to the discussion around the lists.

 

[Coastward]

ganondorf

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

ganondorf

Ganondorf IS the tier list.

 

[mas_torque]

i have zero credibility.

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Captain Falcon
Peach
Jigglypuff
Ice Climbers
Doctor Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Pikachu
Mario
Young Link
Mewtwo
Link
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Mr. Game & Watch
Luigi
Zelda
Roy
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

 

[bubbaking]

You should reread the OP...

actually, to make it easier for you, here (with bolding):

I didn't even bother to read the OP. I'm only here because this thread was linked in, like, EVERY Melee FB group I regularly visit, so I thought "Why not?" Just intended to come in, post an opinionated list, and leave. Of course, you had to jump in and make life all hard for me.

Btw, that OP says that tier gaps are okay. Cool. Still, I think we should be able to tie characters. The concept of chars with fairly equal viability actually does exist, thanks to MU spreads and their combination with char popularity.

 

[FourStar]

I have the same references that dkuo has plus Sypherphoenix, Bones, KP, Redd, etc. Probably every good player in MD/VA has at least heard of me (good way or bad way, idk) at this point. I'm probably the best Samus in the region.............if that means anything in a non-FL region.

My list:
Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik

Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Doctor Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Pikachu

Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link

Yoshi
Roy
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Kirby
Bowser

Pichu

I really like that tier list! any reasoning for Dk over the Links?

 

[mas_torque]

yeah i've never understood why dk is over the links when they have a following that does well. armada's spam against hungrybox was annoying but did do work. he apparently doesn't like people saying his matches determined the matchup though

 

[t3h Icy]

I'm free as ****.

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jigglypuff
Marth
Peach
Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doc
Pikachu
Luigi
Ganon
Mario
Yoshi
Young Link
Link
DK
Roy
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr. G&W
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

I still think Yoshi has untapped potential, but because of the ridiculous learning curve all for a character that's not very good, we'll most likely never see it. Yoshi is also very unique, so it's not as if a top player can pick him up and use him at his full potential like say, Mew2King playing Roy. V3ctorman is pretty much the only hope.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Working on it! Believe me... I'm working VERY HARD on it.. I got this though <3

Just have faith! ^^