2013 Community Tier List

[FourStar]

^so much no in this post..

but I can understand why you believe Yoshi is so bad...

All in due time I hope..

TIM GO BACK TO MEWTWO. I ****ING LOVE YOUR MEWTWO!!!

 

[Kimimaru]

I agree that it was a poor argument. I did not state that Sheik loses the MU though; it's in her favor. I just don't think it's as big of an advantage as most tend to think.

 

[john!]

i think that each player's list should be weighted by their ranking if we ever get another smash rankings website (unless it doesn't have enough data to rank people accurately)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

John, that is actually being worked on. Haven't you seen my title? Smash Tournament Database could potentially be up and running before June. I already have a good amount of the code done. I am also putting the tier lists into a database so that when Elo is calculated we can have tier listed based on the Elo level of the voters. I'm really interested to see how that turns out.

 

[PK Webb]

Sry posted in wrong thread

 

[john!]

John, that is actually being worked on. Haven't you seen my title? Smash Tournament Database could potentially be up and running before June. I already have a good amount of the code done. I am also putting the tier lists into a database so that when Elo is calculated we can have tier listed based on the Elo level of the voters. I'm really interested to see how that turns out.

i was actually talking about a single weighted tier list, not multiple tier lists separated by ranking (assuming that's what you're talking about). not sure if that's part of the plan, but your idea sounds interesting too. guess i'll just have to wait and see what you've got in store

 

[FourStar]

John, that is actually being worked on. Haven't you seen my title? Smash Tournament Database could potentially be up and running before June. I already have a good amount of the code done. I am also putting the tier lists into a database so that when Elo is calculated we can have tier listed based on the Elo level of the voters. I'm really interested to see how that turns out.

omg that is a **** load of work

 

[MountainGoat]

Won't matter if there are barely any pros making lists.

 

[Dunc]

noooo.... just noo.... why is the mid tier so mixed up like luigi is 22nd but young link is 12th? explain...

I believe that Young Link deserves a lot more credit than given. Not because Armada uses him well. He is light and doesn't have the greatest recovery for his weight but his combos are sick and he has effective edgeguards. In my opinion, Luigi just gets bounced around everywhere and his recovery can be easily edgeguarded. Maybe I could have placed him above G&W but either way he is not in bottom tier but close. Just my opinion. Sorry I have upset so many!

 

[BTmoney]

Won't matter if there are barely any pros making lists.

Not even that. People just say weird **** and have no idea what they are talking about, nor bother to explain their weird ****.

I don't see why you have to be notable to either know what you're talking about or put together a meaningful argument.

 

[MountainGoat]

I gotta disagree with putting Luigi that low. There are so many good luigis that make noise in tournaments. Ka Master was even ranked #1 in WA power rankings. Vist recently got into GFs at Xanadu beating DoH, Nintendude and others. Eddy Mexico is a beast and has beaten Westballz. Abate performed super well at Apex and Vudujin was in bracket there too. What has young link ever done as a solo character? I can't think of a single young link player off the top of my head other than Armada and Axe busting them out occasionally. Luigi has great combos and some solid edgeguarding and kill moves. HIs recovery even isn't that bad as long as you're a beast at using down b, good at hitting the edge with your side b and save your jump. Plus 1/8 time you get a super recovery lol

I don't see why you have to be notable to either know what you're talking about or put together a meaningful argument.

You don't but just saying the ELO thing won't be that useful if most of the people in the thread are unranked or barely ranked.

Vman post your tier list dude

 

[BTmoney]

Hmm, I'll probably actually jack this data and compile it on my own and see what it looks like when I take the crap out. There would obviously be some bias. Yeah I think I'll definitely do that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Tachi, feel free to look at the data on your own, but I would be really unhappy if you "jacked" my data and compiled your own lists. Especially because I am putting in a lot of work so that people can look at what a tier list would be from any set of people they want.

 

[Kimimaru]

Hmm, I'll probably actually jack this data and compile it on my own and see what it looks like when I take the crap out. There would obviously be some bias. Yeah I think I'll definitely do that.

That would most likely just be your own tier list .

 

[BTmoney]

Tachi, feel free to look at the data on your own, but I would be really unhappy if you "jacked" my data and compiled your own lists. Especially because I am putting in a lot of work so that people can look at what a tier list would be from any set of people they want.

Never mind then

 

[chenjesu]

i'm going to put bowser in top tier

just up-b out of shield once and then camp the ledge

bowser should be pretty good at camping the ledge right?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Im pretty sure bowser could out camp metaknight at the edge

 

[Bones0]

Im pretty sure bowser could out camp metaknight at the edge

Too bad he'd never land a hit.

 

[Paju]

Top placings:

• 9th at BEAST 3
• 13th at Smashers' Reunion: Melee Grande
• 65th at Apex 2013
• 1st or best placing Finn in various Finnish tournaments
• I'm also currently ranked as the #1 player in Finland

Best Tournament Victories:
Adam (BEAST 3), Aldwyn (Smashers' Reunion: Melee Grande), Tonberry (Smashers' Reunion: Melee Grande), IrishMafia (Apex 2013)

Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided:
Pretty much anyone in Finland, also I think Armada knows Finnish players pretty well.

Tier list:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Doctor Mario
10. Pikachu
11. Samus
12. Luigi
13. Ganondorf
14. Mario
15. Young Link
16. Link
17. Yoshi
18. Donkey Kong
19. Zelda
20. Mr. Game & Watch
21. Roy
22. Ness
23. Mewtwo
24. Kirby
25. Bowser
26. Pichu

 

[FourStar]

I believe that Young Link deserves a lot more credit than given. Not because Armada uses him well. He is light and doesn't have the greatest recovery for his weight but his combos are sick and he has effective edgeguards. In my opinion, Luigi just gets bounced around everywhere and his recovery can be easily edgeguarded. Maybe I could have placed him above G&W but either way he is not in bottom tier but close. Just my opinion. Sorry I have upset so many!

yes i completely agree but he is not 12th. 13th at most but link is still better because link has a better MUs overall.

 

[FourStar]

Top placings:

• 9th at BEAST 3
• 13th at Smashers' Reunion: Melee Grande
• 65th at Apex 2013
• 1st or best placing Finn in various Finnish tournaments
• I'm also currently ranked as the #1 player in Finland

Best Tournament Victories:

Adam (BEAST 3), Aldwyn (Smashers' Reunion: Melee Grande), Tonberry (Smashers' Reunion: Melee Grande), IrishMafia (Apex 2013)

Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided:
Pretty much anyone in Finland, also I think Armada knows Finnish players pretty well.

Tier list:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Doctor Mario
10. Pikachu
11. Samus
12. Luigi
13. Ganondorf
14. Mario
15. Young Link
16. Link
17. Yoshi
18. Donkey Kong
19. Zelda
20. Roy
21. Mr. Game & Watch
22. Ness
23. Mewtwo
24. Kirby
25. Bowser
26. Pichu

switch luigi and ganon and that should be the next tier list

 

[standardtoaster]

kirby's moving up in the world

 

[Griffard]

Paju, love your list.
@Fourstar - why do you think Ganon is higher than Luigi? Seems to me that Luigi players have been placing much much better as of late, and there are more significant Luigi players than Ganon mains seemingly. Obviously Kage is still a hero, but he's placing lower and lower while players like Abate, Vudujin, Vist, Eddy Mexico, Ka Master etc. have been doing some work on moving up. IMO of course

 

[FourStar]

Paju, love your list.
@Fourstar - why do you think Ganon is higher than Luigi? Seems to me that Luigi players have been placing much much better as of late, and there are more significant Luigi players than Ganon mains seemingly. Obviously Kage is still a hero, but he's placing lower and lower while players like Abate, Vudujin, Vist, Eddy Mexico, Ka Master etc. have been doing some work on moving up. IMO of course

i guess well im pretty salty over my hate of luigi LOL idk i hate luigi

 

[BluEG]

i guess well im pretty salty over my hate of luigi LOL idk i hate luigi

You'd really hate him if you played a great Luigi player and witnessed all the stupid **** he can do. A good luigi is the most frustrating thing to play against.

Nair 4 lyfe.

 

[Get Low]

FourStar is just salty about Luigi because unlike his precious Pikachu, Luigi is a mid-tier who has actually been improving in the current metagame and has a chance of moving up in the tier list.

 

[Divinokage]

Paju, love your list.
@Fourstar - why do you think Ganon is higher than Luigi? Seems to me that Luigi players have been placing much much better as of late, and there are more significant Luigi players than Ganon mains seemingly. Obviously Kage is still a hero, but he's placing lower and lower while players like Abate, Vudujin, Vist, Eddy Mexico, Ka Master etc. have been doing some work on moving up. IMO of course

Placing lower? Where do you see that? And Im pretty sure Luigi has about just as much potential than Ganon but heads up Ganon wins.

 

[Griffard]

Just talking about Apex I guess, haven't been tracking your progress in smaller tournaments. Obviously you're still a beast player. Agreed on the potential thing, Luigi just has a wider set of tools.

 

[Get Low]

Personally, I think Ganon is overall the better character.
But placement-wise, Luigi has been more prominent lately.

 

[Divinokage]

Just talking about Apex I guess, haven't been tracking your progress in smaller tournaments. Obviously you're still a beast player. Agreed on the potential thing, Luigi just has a wider set of tools.

Luigi doesnt exactly have a reliable approach, its based on making your opponent move first and then Luigi can go nuts in combos. It's also relatively easy to follow up hits but he doesnt have a good recovery either or strong KO power.

Personally, I think Ganon is overall the better character.
But placement-wise, Luigi has been more prominent lately.

Thats because good Ganons don't really exist anymore, except Bizz but I think he keeps it local and so do I which means Ganons wont get represented at all.

 

[CanISmash]

lol. fox is the best fox is the best fox is the best.... yet he absolutely never wins and we blame the players aren't good enough with the best character... for 10 years.

the difference between fox and every other top tier is his limbs are significantly shorter giving him less room for error.

My top 5 goes. falco sheik fox peach jiggs.

 

[Upke]

You act like we have no basis for Fox still having a lot of room for improvement. It's all in the frame data. He has the highest potential because he has so many options at any given point, most of which aren't even realistically punishable.

 

[RockinRudy]

noooo.... just noo.... why is the mid tier so mixed up like luigi is 22nd but young link is 12th? explain...

This kid obviously never played Luigi or versed a good one.​

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Edit: Lol read some of these tier lists time to go to bed, my eyes...​

 

[FourStar]

This kid obviously never played Luigi or versed a good one.​

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Edit: Lol read some of these tier lists time to go to bed, my eyes...​

1. Nor cal has like nooooooo luigi's. everyone here plays only S to C tier character.
2. i really care too much about luigi. playing with him is so difficult

You'd really hate him if you played a great Luigi player and witnessed all the stupid **** he can do. A good luigi is the most frustrating thing to play against.

Nair 4 lyfe.

LOL i respect any good player. i just don't like luigi as character. never said anything about the players. i'll admit when i see good players and tip my hat to them

FourStar is just salty about Luigi because unlike his precious Pikachu, Luigi is a mid-tier who has actually been improving in the current metagame and has a chance of moving up in the tier list.

oh and i precious over pikachu cuz you know they kinda get KOed at low %. LOL but real talk luigi has been moving up because he has pretty damn good representation. I hate luigi as character, but i respect good players.

 

[Bones0]

You act like we have no basis for Fox still having a lot of room for improvement. It's all in the frame data. He has the highest potential because he has so many options at any given point, most of which aren't even realistically punishable.

Do give me a frame-by-frame breakdown of his options when he's getting comboed across the stage by the entire cast.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Best win was beating Kels 2-0. Have beaten Kels at lest 3 times.
25th at Melee FC
17th at SMYM13
33rd at The Big House

Multiple high finishes at locals with players Sveet posted
Turned Mattdotzeb into Baldotzeb
Got Darkrain salty in friendlies.

Falco
Fox
Marth
Puff
Sheik
Peach
Falcon
IC
Pika
Ganon
Samus
Doc
Mario
Zelda
Mewtwo
Luigi
Y. Link
Link
Roy
DK
Yoshi
G&W
Pichu
Ness
Bowser
Kirby

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Im pretty sure bowser could out camp metaknight at the edge

Definite win condition or your money back!

 

[BTmoney]

Do give me a frame-by-frame breakdown of his options when he's getting comboed across the stage by the entire cast.

Can't the same be said for Falco?

 

[Bones0]

Can't the same be said for Falco?

Yeah.

 

[BTmoney]

Yeah.

I'm sure you have more depth in your argument but more than once when someone would say "Fox is the best" or etc. you'd say no because he gets combo'd easily (paraphrased). But that goes for Falco too so who is #1 to you and how much does it matter how hard you get combo'd when you have the best options in the game?