Melee: Project Fight Stick

[Acryte]

So I don't know why but the last few days I've really wanted to mess around with making a melee fight stick. I know nowadays there are wii fightsticks that are backwards compatible with GCN games. To be honest I love using the GCN controller, probably more than I would a fight stick anyways... but nevertheless I kinda want one just for messing about.

Not sure what it will entail... there are websites and the like that will make you custom fight sticks, though most of these are fairly simple. Idk if they want to go through the hassle of devising a couple simple circuits for mine, though I could do that myself. As long as they make the overall design and stuff it I could just add in that functionality I guess. I've never actually picked up a project quite like this, aka electronics mods, though I know a lot about electronics and have the soldering stations, multimeters, oscilloscopes, and all the other **** I'd ever need at my disposal.

Spent today in photoshop making a 3d model of it (I never use 3d in photoshop so I kinda got stuck in a bad place). I have the clean model without keys or anything with glossy reflections and all that sexiness (can upload if anyone wanted to check it out) as well as the finished design.

NOTES:
Melee Fightstick designed by Acryte.

-Button layout designed around advanced techniques (Mainly Spacies).

-General button configuration:

Wavedash: X, L + Direction ...
Waveshine: Down-B, X, L + Direction, ...
WaveShielding: R (pinky to light/hard shield), X, L + Direction, ...
Drillshine: Down-B, X, L + Direction, (optional dash), Y, C-Down, FF, L (thumb)
Shine Grab: X, (Control Stick Up), Z
Multishine: Down-B, Y or Down-B, X
SHDL: X, B,B or Y,B,B option if finger motion for X,B,B doesn’t feel as natural.
Shine Upsmash: Down-B, (Control Stick Up), A or C-up ... etc. works with X or Y and A or C-up

Directional buttons for taunt lols and samus extender.
L/R are taller buttons (analog).

EX BUTTON - triggers an analog limiter circuit that caps joystick at a maximum tilt percentage and serves 4 functions:
If B is also being pressed, it caps at tilt % required for Turnaround Up-B’s (ie Zelda, etc) and Double-Upwards Up-B (Pika)
If L/R is also being pressed it caps tilt % at a specific value to allow for shielddrops without spotdodging.
If L/R/B is not being pressed and EX BUTTON is pressed it caps tilt sensitivity at a low enough value to ensure attacks with A will be tilts and not smashes.
If L/R/B is not being pressed and EX BUTTON is pressed it caps tilt sensitivity at a low enough value to ensure Control stick Down will not initiate fast-fall.

This configuration of buttons is the best layout I can imagine. I tried various layouts including some mentioned in a recent thread. This one allows for all techs without feeling strange or having to shift your hand around often. It can generally be anchored in one or two positions.

[Parts List]
xxx = Purchased
xxx = Not Purchased

$59 Ultimarc 360 Analog Joystick - http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html
$75 15 Sanwa pushbuttons. If obtained at 2.75 instead of 5.00 then about half that.
$10 L/R Analog pushbuttons - Button Mechanisms cannibalized from GCN controller (inserted into a deeper, taller button w/ nice concave top). Get buttons custom made or self-procure them.
$150 Out of the air estimate for case and graphics (unless we built the case instead which would just be parts cost and decal aka much cheaper).
$190 Pocket Oscilloscope.
$100 Fluke Multimeter
$23 Arduino Board for EX button functionality.
$24 GCN Controller to cannibalize, and 4 resistors for the C-buttons.

 

[Varist]

what the ****, i would pay SOOOOO much money
but no dual stick DI

 

[Acryte]

well you could just press the c-button for it I guess but I see what you mean. I totally spaced the angled fsmashes with c-stick and angled DI with it. Maybe I should re-design with dual sticks as well as C buttons mUAHAHAHAHAH

 

[Varist]

and worse quarter-circle SDI tooD:

but i don't even SDI anyway, gimmie

 

[Acryte]

I could probably rig it to where the 2nd one rests against the inside of your right palm so you can use buttons and like still operate the 2nd joystick without having to even move your hand over to it...

 

[Pi]

thisss would be weirddd

 

[Metà]

I've thought about this before. I think there are some advantages to it.

The GCN controller is kind of clunky for playing smash, especially when it comes to the position of the jump buttons in relation to the C-stick. It makes it difficult to quickly do retreating/advancing aerials sometimes, and problems like this could be alleviated if you had multiple fingers to perform it (as a few people already do via claw)

That being said, I don't know if I could ever get used to it at this point. It's just too late for me to start doing it haha

 

[Jonas]

Imo you don't need L AND R or X AND Y, seeing as they are duplicate buttons which, pairwise, do the same thing. You could make it a four button fighter with A, B, L, X, and since a lot of modern fightsticks have 8 buttons, you could use the remaining four buttons as C-buttons. This would potentially make it work with any standard fightsticks of today, although there's still the issue of the stick itself basically being a fancy D-pad instead of an analog stick.

 

[Landry]

That Brawl logo on there looks gross.

 

[Jonas]

Lol @ "Brawl logo". Young kids are young.

It's also very much present in Melee.

 

[Acryte]

lol it wasn't a brawl logo it was a smash logo I photoshopped a bit

@jonas I almost felt I didn't need R except having 2 shielding buttons makes waveshielding so much easier to control because you just hold one down at a specific height and then wavedash with the other. Y almost isn't necessary but it works for a few things too because it covers if people didn't want to use X for certain things.

 

[Massive]

In regards to the thread a while ago, I was pretty sure that my button setup was probably the best for a variety of situations (and characters). The only thing that was debatable was the positioning of 'Z'.

The Stick has to be an analog stick (D-pad style isn't acceptable), and the buttons were arranged so there would always be an L/R button for cancelling and a jump button adjacent to it.

You have to be careful when you're talking about macroing tilts and whatnot, they ban macro controllers at tourneys for a reason. There's not really much wiggle room between macroing tilts and macroing a shorthop L-canceled nair > shine.

 

[Acryte]

Yea I tried that setup, certain things didn't feel right for me. Like it looked cool, that and Varist's as well, but when I literally drew them out on a piece of paper properly spaced for my handsize and tried the various techniques, things like waveshielding needed hand contortion and the position of X below B makes your hand/finger pull/twist inward more to reach it which is uncomfortable for a position that will be used quite often when waveshining. Same with things like shinebair to the left using C-left.

Like, its a more natural position for thumb/index to rest on B and your next finger to be sitting around where R is on your setup. But then you want to switch the position of R and Y but having R directly above L makes waveshielding even more constrained. If you did that however, then I'd move Z over to where Y is (aka where R originally started) for jumpcancelled grabs and shine grabs. At this point I was moving around so many buttons I decided I would start from scratch.

I took waveshining and built the whole finger layout based off of feeling natural when wavedashing/waveshielding/waveshining/drillshining and then from that position doing everything else such as SHFFLC, SHDL, JC grabs, Up-smash/Up-air OoS, shine grabs, multishine, and shine bairs. If these things all feel natural everything else is pretty much golden as long as it feels natural to access the c-buttons from any necessary hand positions used in the aformentioned techniques. (also works well with marth's retreating sh double fairs in both directions)

Basically I started from the ground up. I really like it though. If you draw it out on paper and try the various things, you'll notice how your hand is always in the right place and utilizing the thumb for L/Z is amazing btw. Plus the wavedashing/waveshining motion is a finger-roll which feels natural and makes it so comfortable to perform.

also @ massive I'm not trying to use it in tourney and so yea I'm not worried about my EX BUTTON. Obviously not tourney legal but in friendlies and stuff I think easy turn-around up-Bs, shield-drops, and guaranteed tilt without having to hold the direction beforehand (aka DI) is pretty cool. Also its not macroing input its basically introducing a temporary deadzone in the controller so that the tilt only registers so far. Pretty much the same as wearing a controller out so that only the extremities register input and thus lowering the maximum registered tilt % but reversed to where the deadzone is the outside of the circle and not the inside. It's not actually performing button inputs, so its quite different from a macro actually. If fight sticks could be used at some tourney because noone cared and I didn't prefer my GCN controller (which is a fat chance because I love it) and the EX BUTTON was an issue I could simply add a switch somewhere inconvenient (aka not able to press during match or it would be super obvious) on it so that you could turn on/off it's functionality.

 

[Pi]

ummm i kinda of would like to see an actual C-stick because i do use it to angle my smash attacks

i also slide across x & y to DJ quickly to missile cancel on higher up platforms

but i'm sure i can learn it alternate ways and stuff, same w/ c-stick

but i suppose a dual stick configuration on a fighting pad would be cumbersome?

 

[TANK64]

That Brawl logo on there looks gross.

No gross Brawl logo here. I see two delicious smash logos though.

 

[Acryte]

Yo Pi, when I thought about angled fsmashes the first thing to pop into my mind was samus haha but yea its true I guess I figured they could be done with control stick but ASDI you need to be able to angle so maybe I could just get it to where certain c buttons can work in conjuction aka the diagonals but how many angles does the c-stick actually register is it just diagonal up and down or are is it 2 going up and 2 down??. I might make a 2nd version that has 2 sticks and see how that works out.

About the doublejump X,Y thing yea, I knew there might be some samus **** unaccounted for... I mean double tapping an arcade button is usually pretty easy and fast if you are using your middle or index finger, which you would be in this config, and the buttons are right next to B too so you can stagger your fingers and do the missile a bit easier actually but because your hand position is overhand it shouldn't be as hard to do like when trying to double-tap a single button on a controller.

 

[ryuu seika]

In regards to the thread a while ago, I was pretty sure that my button setup was probably the best for a variety of situations (and characters). The only thing that was debatable was the positioning of 'Z'.

Put it in place of X/Y or L/R. You don't need redundant buttons.

 

[Acryte]

I don't feel any of the buttons are redundant here, Y is still useful for certain things and may feel more comfortable to someone even if X can easily be used for those things as well.

 

[Pi]

also yea someone brought up the point of lightshielding?

lightshielding is very important, and i'm not one to discount the ability to learn new ways, but buffering with Z is too high a risk for some chars (specifically mine, samus)

i light shield a lot in the jiggs match with no risk using L or R, but if i were forced to have to buffer with Z, a tiny mess up = stock for me

also, there are people who lightly tap the L or R button to L cancel in order to not activate & use up the tech window

they could switch to Z though, wouldn't be hard in this config

maybe the L or R button could be a kind of...slider? basically in the way that our current R/L buttons work, but maybe on a larger scale, and something you could slide w/ one of your fingers conveniently for light shields or L cancels if u so desired

 

[Acryte]

Yo man those L and R buttons are a lot taller than the others because they are gonna be analog. yea you need to have analog L and R buttons.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't feel any of the buttons are redundant here, Y is still useful for certain things and may feel more comfortable to someone even if X can easily be used for those things as well.

Y is only different to X in location, which is an irrelevant difference when you're already placing the buttons to suit your own personal preference.

 

[Beat!]

erm, confused L/R with X/Y.

 

[ryuu seika]

Goes for both AFAIK.
Assuming this controller is only used for smash, that is.

 

[Beat!]

Well, a lot of people use both buttons, depending on what they're doing. Y/X and L/R are used for more than one thing.

(Which was my initial point so idk why I edited away the entire post)

 

[Jonas]

Well, a lot of people use both buttons, depending on what they're doing. Y/X and L/R are used for more than one thing.

Yes, but now you're talking about the GAMECUBE controller. For instance, I use Y to jump but X to jump cancel grab. If I were to play with an arcade stick, I wouldn't care much what the buttons are called because the layout is totally different. It doesn't make sense to say "we need to keep X and Y because people use both buttons".

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, I know. Just thought it was worth noting. People might still prefer certain hand/finger movements for certain situations.

 

[Jonas]

But they're going to use entirely different hand/finger movements anyway if they decide to use an arcade stick.

 

[nube]

One jump, two shield buttons durrr

 

[Beat!]

But they're going to use entirely different hand/finger movements anyway if they decide to use an arcade stick.

Ah, but see, you're forgetting that OH MY GOD LOOK OVER THERE WHAT IS THAT???

...

*runs away*

 

[Jonas]

Where? What? Hey where'd you go?

 

[Massive]

X/Y could just be labelled JUMP and R/L could be labelled SHIELD, it doesn't matter.

The reason they are both there in my layout was so that you are always adjacent to a button that allows you to L-cancel as well as one that allows you to jump.

This way L-cancelling any c-sticked aerial would be easy as mashing the adjacent button, and doing moves OoS would just be hitting two buttons at once instead of contorting your hand into a hideous claw.

 

[Pi]

the only solid issue w/ combining x and y is not being able alternate a jump input every frame
since the game has to read a release of a button before you can press it again

for example if i was in AR and wanted to jump ASAP
i would alternate x and y
if i were to just press X
i would have to press x, then on the next frame release x, then on the next frame press it again

idk if anyone else button slide sover x and y, but i do, obviously i probably don't do it frame by frame
and jump animations last more than a frame any way, so i would just have to learn double tapping the same buttton

but that's the only thing that removing one of the jump buttons would affect directly probably

 

[Sinji]

It's official. Diago will take up Melee in 2012 and main Marth with the fight stick.

 

[Acryte]

Y is only different to X in location, which is an irrelevant difference when you're already placing the buttons to suit your own personal preference.

Location is important because of hand position when doing certain things. That's why I drew it out and physically tried different configurations and button placements.

I included Y because of the location difference, its worth putting there for cetrain instances where it may be preferred over X based off of its location in relation to other buttons.

 

[The Star King]

the only solid issue w/ combining x and y is not being able alternate a jump input every frame
since the game has to read a release of a button before you can press it again

for example if i was in AR and wanted to jump ASAP
i would alternate x and y
if i were to just press X
i would have to press x, then on the next frame release x, then on the next frame press it again

Uh, why would you ever need to press X and Y on alternate frames? Grounded jumps have a bit of start-up lag, and Puff/Kirby have some sort of lag right after their mid-air jumps where they can't jump again. I guess you have a point about the button sliding though.

 

[Acryte]

Uh, why would you ever need to press X and Y on alternate frames? Grounded jumps have a bit of start-up lag, and Puff/Kirby have some sort of lag right after their mid-air jumps where they can't jump again. I guess you have a point about the button sliding though.

Whoa star king puttin the facts down.

 

[Mono.]

It'd be alot better without the bat top yet still interesting.

 

[GHNeko]

I was just about to say that.

You done ****ed up with that baseball bat stick son.

Fix it.

 

[rhan]

Shield grabbing would be a ***** to pull off with this.

 

[Veetaak]

I could never play like that, haha