Meta Match Up Discussion - Vs. Yoshi

[---]

General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

***For general questions not related to the current topic in this thread please use the General Match Up thread.***

This thread shall last for around 8-9 days, with the next thread opening up in about 5-7 days.

 

[Aninymouse]

Yoshi is so annoying to fight.

He has that lightning-quick combo breaker nair, that absurd shield-breaking Dair, that massive spiking Fair, that killer Uair that makes even Fox jealous, and the double jump super armor to use them all to deadly effect.

And yet, most times I've seen this matchup play out, Mewtwo usually wins.

I'll post some videos to consider.

Mew² vs Cub

KillerJawz vs ???

Swoops vs Yoshikens

What I'm seeing a pattern of: Mewtwo is far, far superior in movement options, especially near the ground. If Mewtwo plays patiently, Yoshi has no good answers to being out-spaced and punished.

Yoshi can kill early and rack up percent quickly, though. Playing patiently and defensively vs Yoshi gives Yoshi that necessary respect but demoralizes them.

 

[Browny]

Yoshis favour and contender for hardest matchup.

Hes almost immune to Mewtwos deadly landing traps and doesnt care about spacing him out with dtilt.

 

[ShadowKing]

Yoshis favour and contender for hardest matchup.

Hes almost immune to Mewtwos deadly landing traps and doesnt care about spacing him out with dtilt.

Hardest matchup?I would disagree because Mewtwo has a powerful projectile,a very good recovery, and many spacing tools. Yoshi can avoid attacks with his second jump but most of all It's in mewtwos favor oh plus Mewtwo has more setup options to kill and with yoshis setups you can easily avoid due to a slow grab and being able to DI

 

[Nobie]

In my experience stage choice matters a LOT for this matchup. Platform-heavy stages like BF, DL64, and Lylat Cruise are good, wide open platform-scarce stages like FD or parts of Town & City not so much.

 

[Metros]

Hardest matchup?I would disagree because Mewtwo has a powerful projectile,a very good recovery, and many spacing tools. Yoshi can avoid attacks with his second jump but most of all It's in mewtwos favor oh plus Mewtwo has more setup options to kill and with yoshis setups you can easily avoid due to a slow grab and being able to DI

Might not be the hardest but it's certainly hard. We have a player here that's contender for best in the whole country. I've beaten him a few times with Mewtwo but it's not easy. Just because Mewtwo has good tools doesn't mean he's capable of winning every single match. It is indeed in Yoshi's favour, not Mewtwo's. Especially if you vs a dedicated Yoshi main.

 

[meleebrawler]

Fighting Yoshi is all about being able to respond to the Yoshi player's mixups. Usmash can beat most of his approaching aerials if timed correctly, and shadow claw can also outspeed fair. Watch out for the b-reverse Egg Lay if you tend to shield. Basially Mewtwo has what it takes to challenge Yoshi's approaches and win, just that the penalty for messing up is usually quite high.

 

[ShadowKing]

Might not be the hardest but it's certainly hard. We have a player here that's contender for best in the whole country. I've beaten him a few times with Mewtwo but it's not easy. Just because Mewtwo has good tools doesn't mean he's capable of winning every single match. It is indeed in Yoshi's favour, not Mewtwo's. Especially if you vs a dedicated Yoshi main.

So it's in yoshis favor due to someone being a dedicated yoshi main?I'm not saying it's easy but m2 has more options then Yoshi plus Mewtwo being light is a tool in these MU due to let say Yoshi goes for a Dthrow to a UAir for the kill you can easily avoid that with a jump or DI
Edit:Yes yoshi can approach with Egg but as many said focus on the mixup and the match is yours

 

[Mr. B]

If they know how to use those eggs then you can expect to have a hard time. I just spent my lunch hour having my face egged repeatedly... Yoshi is a character that I just don't enjoy playing against - so hard to read, and dat jump superarmour... Once they are finished egging me, I can sometimes time my FAirs for the point that they start descending and thus can be spanked, but it always seems such hard work.

Wandered over to the Yoshi threads to see what their thoughts on the MU is. Turns out the best advice for Yoshi mains is pretty much "SH Egg 4 Eva!!!1!" whenever they come up against a MU that isn't in their favour.

Without the power of egg, Yoshi would probably be in a specially created lowest tier, all by himself.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

I don't like this matchup - this is usually a matchup I unleash Bowser for because I don't trust myself not to mess up against a Yoshi as Mewtwo. They can zone pretty decently with their Egg, and they have powerful air game.

Mewtwo needs to be very patient in this matchup, because if he screws up the punishes Yoshi can dish out are pretty bad. Other than that, there's not much else I think I can say.

 

[Metros]

So it's in yoshis favor due to someone being a dedicated yoshi main?I'm not saying it's easy but m2 has more options then Yoshi plus Mewtwo being light is a tool in these MU due to let say Yoshi goes for a Dthrow to a UAir for the kill you can easily avoid that with a jump or DI
Edit:Yes yoshi can approach with Egg but as many said focus on the mixup and the match is yours

It doesn't have to matter who it is, if they know how to play Yoshi correctly Mewtwo's going to get wrecked. If not that, he WILL have a hard time. It's in Yoshi's favour. Not by a lot, but it is. I've played against multiple Yoshi's over the past year and I had a difficult time against all of them. They were good players too. Mewtwo struggles there is no doubt about it.

 

[Mr. B]

Last night I played around 10 matches against a very decent Yoshi. My Mewtwo got wrecked and I sulked with some secondaries (Lucina and DHD) for a few rounds. He did the same. When I flipped back to Mewtwo and destroyed his secondaries he went back to Yoshi.

I don't know if the few rounds of Lucina play focused me, or if he was distracted, but I got in the ZONE. Dashing forward under eggs, baiting hits for shieldgrab, Confusion to FAir, and more, all up in his business. I took his stock with me on around 40%, got him up to 120% on his second without adding much more to mine... and suddenly I thought to myself "what the hell is happening here? How am I about to 2stock this guy? Is Jesus in my fingers?" and then I was back to being wrecked. I thought too much about it, and came crashing down.

Thinking too much destroys your reflexes.
Auto-pilot makes you invariably predictable.
Somewhere in between there is a golden land, where Yoshi cannot help but break himself against my USmash.
I will find that golden land again.

 

[Nobie]

Last night I played around 10 matches against a very decent Yoshi. My Mewtwo got wrecked and I sulked with some secondaries (Lucina and DHD) for a few rounds. He did the same. When I flipped back to Mewtwo and destroyed his secondaries he went back to Yoshi.

I don't know if the few rounds of Lucina play focused me, or if he was distracted, but I got in the ZONE. Dashing forward under eggs, baiting hits for shieldgrab, Confusion to FAir, and more, all up in his business. I took his stock with me on around 40%, got him up to 120% on his second without adding much more to mine... and suddenly I thought to myself "what the hell is happening here? How am I about to 2stock this guy? Is Jesus in my fingers?" and then I was back to being wrecked. I thought too much about it, and came crashing down.

Thinking too much destroys your reflexes.
Auto-pilot makes you invariably predictable.
Somewhere in between there is a golden land, where Yoshi cannot help but break himself against my USmash.
I will find that golden land again.

 

[meleebrawler]

Last night I played around 10 matches against a very decent Yoshi. My Mewtwo got wrecked and I sulked with some secondaries (Lucina and DHD) for a few rounds. He did the same. When I flipped back to Mewtwo and destroyed his secondaries he went back to Yoshi.

I don't know if the few rounds of Lucina play focused me, or if he was distracted, but I got in the ZONE. Dashing forward under eggs, baiting hits for shieldgrab, Confusion to FAir, and more, all up in his business. I took his stock with me on around 40%, got him up to 120% on his second without adding much more to mine... and suddenly I thought to myself "what the hell is happening here? How am I about to 2stock this guy? Is Jesus in my fingers?" and then I was back to being wrecked. I thought too much about it, and came crashing down.

Thinking too much destroys your reflexes.
Auto-pilot makes you invariably predictable.
Somewhere in between there is a golden land, where Yoshi cannot help but break himself against my USmash.
I will find that golden land again.

This right here proves that it is better to be reactive against Yoshi than proactive. Nobody can catch him in the air, especially through a rain of eggs. The only thinking you should be doing is analyzing the Yoshi's approaching habits.

 

[ShadowKing]

It doesn't have to matter who it is, if they know how to play Yoshi correctly Mewtwo's going to get wrecked. If not that, he WILL have a hard time. It's in Yoshi's favour. Not by a lot, but it is. I've played against multiple Yoshi's over the past year and I had a difficult time against all of them. They were good players too. Mewtwo struggles there is no doubt about it.

OK all I get from these is"A very good yoshi player will WRECK a very good Mewtwo player."I'm not saying Mewtwo will have a easy time because the eggs help yoshi get setups but m2s moves have less ending lag meaning you'll have a higher chance to nail combos onto yoshi then yoshi has on Mewtwo. FYI I played a very good yoshi player yesterday and wrecked him because as EVERYONE said you need to focus on the mix-ups not on how there a very good Yoshi player..There that ends my case

... The only thinking you should be doing is analyzing the Yoshi's approaching habits.

Right on. The eggs are a distraction... Its the dinosaur that you need to watch. That's why Yoshi mains love the eggs so much... fill the screen with them, and the opponent is watching the left hand while the uppercut is being delivered by the right.

... Ending lag does not give Mewtwo the advantage here, and, if anything, Yoshi has more opportunities to land high damage, possibly killing combos..

He doesn't even need kill combos. His FAir spike is triple X hardcore, and is definitely one to watch during a recovery...

OK all I get from these is"A very good yoshi player will WRECK a very good Mewtwo player."I'm not saying Mewtwo will have a easy time because the eggs help yoshi get setups but m2s moves have less ending lag meaning you'll have a higher chance to nail combos onto yoshi then yoshi has on Mewtwo. FYI I played a very good yoshi player yesterday and wrecked him because as EVERYONE said you need to focus on the mix-ups not on how there a very good Yoshi player..There that ends my case

Edit:My match was on FG and there was no lag

 

[BarSoapSoup]

Edit:My match was on FG and there was no lag

You have no idea he was good then. Just mentioning that he was on FG puts your whole argument at risk of invalidation. The only way you could tell was if you somehow spectated the SAME GUY some time later, which is highly unlikely. Having less ending lag isn't the only factor involved in this matchup - Mewtwo is lighter, bigger, and is therefore easier to zone out as well as setup for combos. Ending lag does not give Mewtwo the advantage here, and, if anything, Yoshi has more opportunities to land high damage, possibly killing combos.

EDIT: Mewtwo could probably continue slightly longer strings than Yoshi but Yoshi definitely has more combo opportunities than Mewtwo.

 

[Aninymouse]

You have no idea he was good then. Just mentioning that he was on FG puts your whole argument at risk of invalidation. The only way you could tell was if you somehow spectated the SAME GUY some time later, which is highly unlikely. Having less ending lag isn't the only factor involved in this matchup - Mewtwo is lighter, bigger, and is therefore easier to zone out as well as setup for combos. Ending lag does not give Mewtwo the advantage here, and, if anything, Yoshi has more opportunities to land high damage, possibly killing combos.

EDIT: Mewtwo could probably continue slightly longer strings than Yoshi but Yoshi definitely has more combo opportunities than Mewtwo.

Watch some of those videos I posted. In nearly every single one, Yoshi is the aggressor, constantly trying to create opportunities, and in nearly every single instance, Mewtwo just laughs and wrecks Yoshi's face.

Yoshi's ability to mess Mewtwo up hard for making mistakes is obvious, but because Mewtwo is faster and has better movement options, the Mewtwo player is able to stuff all those options. Ignore the eggs and destroy the dinosaur, as was said.

People were putting Yoshi above Mewtwo in this match-up before, but honestly, it looks even to me. Either top Yoshi players are scrubs (and I dare not claim that), or Yoshi does not have enough ability to swing the match in his favor regardless of Mewtwo's rebuffs. Sheik controls the match and can stuff out Mewtwo's options. Yoshi cannot. Not that I have seen or experienced.

It looks like a solid 50:50 to me.

 

[---]

Lots of double posts in this thread. Please remember to use edit.

 

[Metros]

OK all I get from these is"A very good yoshi player will WRECK a very good Mewtwo player."I'm not saying Mewtwo will have a easy time because the eggs help yoshi get setups but m2s moves have less ending lag meaning you'll have a higher chance to nail combos onto yoshi then yoshi has on Mewtwo. FYI I played a very good yoshi player yesterday and wrecked him because as EVERYONE said you need to focus on the mix-ups not on how there a very good Yoshi player..There that ends my case

So? There are tons of good Yoshi players. It depends who you play and how they use Yoshi. It also depends on how good the Mewtwo player is. Just because you wrecked a good Yoshi player doesn't necessarily mean that it's still in Mewtwo's favour, it entirely depends on WHO you play and HOW they use Yoshi in order for you to win.

I play against the best Yoshi in our country regularly. He demolishes everybody and always comes 2nd, every tournament. There will be days when I trash him and there will be days when he trashes me. It's even, if not more so slightly in his favour. Mewtwo has had buffs but it doesn't make Yoshi any less of a threat. He cannot win ALL the time against Yoshi. It depends who you play and how they play him, as I said. I'm NOT a bad Mewtwo player either so it's not like I let myself get trashed or just say that the match up is in Yoshi's favour to make Mewtwo look bad!

I never said anything about a very good Yoshi player wrecking a very good Mewtwo player. I said a good Yoshi player WILL wreck Mewtwo. Depending entirely on how they play and if they know the Mewtwo match up. Just because Mewtwo has less ending lag doesn't mean the match up is in his favour.

It's even, if not that, it's not in Mewtwo's favour. Disagree if you want. But that's my take on it.

 

[Mr. B]

I play against the best Yoshi in our country regularly. He demolishes everybody and always comes 2nd, every tournament. There will be days when I trash him and there will be days when he trashes me.

What differentiates the days where he beats you from the days you beat him?

My posts on this got deleted, but I tend to agree with Meelebrawler that to win the Yoshi matchup Mewtwo needs to play reactively (not necessarily defensively) since Yoshi really messes up proactive approaches (curse you, egg, with your controlled variable arc), and thwarts landing punishes (curse you egg throw, with your air stalling powers).

Would you agree on this, Metros (that the days you win are more reactive, and those that you lose, proactive)? Or could it be the case that you learned how to play the player, rather than the MU?

 

[Metros]

What differentiates the days where he beats you from the days you beat him?

My posts on this got deleted, but I tend to agree with Meelebrawler that to win the Yoshi matchup Mewtwo needs to play reactively (not necessarily defensively) since Yoshi really messes up proactive approaches (curse you, egg, with your controlled variable arc), and thwarts landing punishes (curse you egg throw, with your air stalling powers).

Would you agree on this, Metros (that the days you win are more reactive, and those that you lose, proactive)? Or could it be the case that you learned how to play the player, rather than the MU?

He plays Yoshi entirely differently to everybody else. He's a skill above everybody else with his Yoshi, pretty much. Maybe not so much with his other characters as he is a dedicated Yoshi main, but he is good with them as well. He rarely places lower than 2nd and came 3rd in a national. I've yet to see another Yoshi player that plays the way he does. Yes there are a few other Yoshi's, one of them knows what he is doing clearly with the character and knows the match up, another one that seems more of a button masher. I haven't lost every single time I've played the other good Yoshi player (I don't count the button masher because he's only been around a short time and when he played he spammed.) But he is smart in general with his characters. He knows how to play both against offensive and defensive playstyles.

I think on the night I beat him readily, he might have been in a different mindset or was just tired. That or he had no idea what to expect from Mewtwo with his buffs. The next time I played him, he beat me. I still won a few, but he was super hyper aggressive with Yoshi those times and when he's in that mode, he's hard to beat. My Mewtwo is strong against him and he's told me countless times he's scared. I've seen him get so worked up when I beat him.

Mewtwo does need to play on point as Yoshi is faster and better in general.

It's not a case of learned to play the player. I've played a lot of Yoshis in the past, some awful, some really good. Strong Yoshi's who know the match up will likely win over players that don't. I'ts even. But I still think the match up is in Yoshi's favour over Mewtwo's.

 

[Aninymouse]

I'ts even. But I still think the match up is in Yoshi's favour over Mewtwo's.

I can't dispute your personal experience, but this right here? You've said this twice, now.

The match-up cannot be simultaneously "even" and "in Yoshi's favor." It's either one or the other.

In the USA, I see Mewtwo mostly stomping on Yoshi, so I'm inclined to believe it's even.

 

[Metros]

I can't dispute your personal experience, but this right here? You've said this twice, now.

The match-up cannot be simultaneously "even" and "in Yoshi's favor." It's either one or the other.

In the USA, I see Mewtwo mostly stomping on Yoshi, so I'm inclined to believe it's even.

Seriously? Did you even read what I said before?

I said it's even if not slightly in Yoshi's favour. I'm done discussing this.

 

[Browny]

Consider it like a +/- ratio with the matchup being 55:45 Yoshis favour with +/- 5 ratio points depending on how much experience the yoshi player has vs Mewtwo.

 

[Mo433]

In don't think Mewtwo has too many problems with this MU. Definetely not one of his worst.

Yoshi does have a slight advantage in this MU, due to better mobility and somewhat better frame data. Yoshi has a lot of moves that he can just throw out in neutral, while Mewtwo doesn't. It's also pretty hard for Mewtwo to land any strings due to Nair and Fair.

Fortunately, Yoshi can't play his egg camp game on Mewtwo, due to his reflector and Shadow Ball.

Grounded, this MU doesn't seem to bad, Mewtwo can space out a lot of moves safely, so he can rack up some hits with little risk.

As a Mewtwo main I've never really had problems with Yoshi, but I can see this MU being either even or in Yoshi's favor.

 

[ShadowKing]

You have no idea he was good then. Just mentioning that he was on FG puts your whole argument at risk of invalidation. The only way you could tell was if you somehow spectated the SAME GUY some time later, which is highly unlikely. Having less ending lag isn't the only factor involved in this matchup - Mewtwo is lighter, bigger, and is therefore easier to zone out as well as setup for combos. Ending lag does not give Mewtwo the advantage here, and, if anything, Yoshi has more opportunities to land high damage, possibly killing combos.

EDIT: Mewtwo could probably continue slightly longer strings than Yoshi but Yoshi definitely has more combo opportunities than Mewtwo.

I don't know if he's good?Dude how would you know?He brought me down to last stock all matches we played,won some games and played at a calm level not charging it like regular FG players due.I'll try to get some vids because I send him a FR so I have him on my FL

 

[BarSoapSoup]

I don't know if he's good?Dude how would you know?He brought me down to last stock all matches we played,won some games and played at a calm level not charging it like regular FG players due.I'll try to get some vids because I send him a FR so I have him on my FL

Because if it was on For Glory, you two probably met by chance. Edit: It would have been your first time against him, so while you could immediately tell if he was on the same skill level, lower or higher, you couldnt tell if he was good in terms of actual high level play. You'd have to work very hard to keep trying matches until you find the exact person you want to play with. It was the first time you met, so to say he was very good is just a guess, and relative to how well you played Mewtwo yourself. You said you wrecked him, but if he brought you down to your last stock every time and he actually won some, you didn't 'wreck' him as well as you thought. And ok? He didn't charge in like FG players do? Knowing and applying fundamentals of a character is one thing, how well you execute it is another.

 

[ShadowKing]

Because if it was on For Glory, you two probably met by chance. Edit: It would have been your first time against him, so while you could immediately tell if he was on the same skill level, lower or higher, you couldnt tell if he was good in terms of actual high level play. You'd have to work very hard to keep trying matches until you find the exact person you want to play with. It was the first time you met, so to say he was very good is just a guess, and relative to how well you played Mewtwo yourself. You said you wrecked him, but if he brought you down to your last stock every time and he actually won some, you didn't 'wreck' him as well as you thought. And ok? He didn't charge in like FG players do? Knowing and applying fundamentals of a character is one thing, how well you execute it is another.

I have him on my FL the exact same player.I message him and asked if he went to tournaments he said not much but he does and one thing how would you know if he played at a high level?

 

[BarSoapSoup]

I have him on my FL the exact same player.I message him and asked if he went to tournaments he said not much but he does and one thing how would you know if he played at a high level?

But you mentioned that you fought him on For Glory. In your initial fight you chose to rank him as a good player, but that you 'wrecked' him but then say he's beaten you a few times. It doesn't matter of you have him on your FL now, you used a FG fight to try and back your claim. An FG fights, you can't see their WLR nor do you probably know them unless you heard of them before. MUs are discusses in terms of high level play between two characters who can use both characters in a high level environment. It's not a jab at him, I'm saying someone you think is good might not be a high-level player like MU discussions think of.

 

[Browny]

Yoshi beats Mewtwo because he absolutely does not care about dtilt spacing him out, he's extremely difficult to combo and edgeguard and is not going to get KO'd unless he makes a mistake.

Mewtwo is a character of extreme punishes and Yoshi is one of the most slippery characters in the game with a ton of safe moves that combo and kill. A lot of what makes Mewtwo great is lost on Yoshi. Hes like the exact opposite of DK in terms of losing out to Mewtwos biggest strengths, but suffers hard in the KO'ing department.

Normally that is an issue for Yoshi who lacks any real set ups into kills but against Mewtwo he can box him out and lead into frame traps with uair/fsmash because of mewtwos lack of a good shield grab, fast jab and his somewhat awkward landing ability.

It's just so difficult to KO a Yoshi who is being very evasive while they have an easier time KO'ing you.

 

[Ramserss]

Being a Yoshi main as well I think that Mewtwo wins the matchup. Like said before the amazing projectile and can out space yoshi, and if we want to cover gimping mewtwo has an easier time gimping yoshi the the opposite way around. Another point to bring up is each of their kill potential on one another, I do think Yoshi has an easier time killing Mewtwo due to him being light but his setup are obvious and or predictable, but on the other hand Mewtwo has a more diverse combo game on Yoshi but Yoshi does have a really fast n-air to break up Mewtwo's combos but it matters less at higher % due to hit stun

Overall I think Mewtwo beats Yoshi
>

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

Well Id call this matchup pretty even tbh, dunno if this has been told before but I think that Mewtwos fair breaks yoshis jump armor at about 60%

 

[Y2Kay]

We haven't been hearing much from the Yoshi's side

RaptorTEC how do u feel?

 

[Bowserboy3]

View attachment 106463

We haven't been hearing much from the Yoshi's side

RaptorTEC how do u feel?

Never mind, this is most likely irrelevant, but if you want to learn about Yoshi v Marth, go ahead and read lol.

Spoiler: Whoops!

I honestly don't think that Yoshi has a slight disadvantage to Marth. If we are being super nice, I feel it's 50:50 (even but difficult), but 50:50 (even) seems nearer the truth. In turn, I'd also put Lucina in 55:45.

Yoshi's relatively good frame data is enough to keep the Marth matchup even. While his Nair can pose a threat to Marth up close, luckily, Marth definitely has the aerial move advantage. Marth however must be wary of Yoshi's aerial mobility, as Yoshi can suddenly be upon him due to his speed. But then Yoshi must also be wary because he lacks a solid safe way to deal with Marth's disjoint, so he must respect it. The thing with this matchup, is that Yoshi has tools that he can use to pick Marth apart, but actually getting in there to do so can pose some trouble, due to Marth's range and quick ground normal, and his good aerial moves.

The thing about Lucina, is that she lacks a tipper, and I feel this is a matchup where it can hinder her where Marth has it as a noticeable advantage. Basically, unless she lands a raw Fsmash, it can be relatively tough to land a KO. Sure, she can Jab to Fsmash, but that's not true until very high percents, but even then, Yoshi's Super Armor double jump is a "get out of jail free" card, and prevents accidental mistakes. So Jab to Ftilt is the best option here, and Lucina cannot KO off of it until above 150%. Marth, however, can KO with this at around 120%. Another disadvantage to no tipper is the lower knockback. Basically, if Marth hits a tipper in neutral or during footsies at a relatively high percent, it can put Yoshi in a difficult position off stage because of their power. Lucina's blade (or Marth's sourspots) won't hit him far enough to pose enough of a threat until very high percents. This makes her edgeguarding game weaker. Due to the decreased power of her aerials compared to Marth's tippered aerials, Yoshi can sometimes survive a Fair or Bair when Marth hitting with tipper Fair or Bair would KO. Both of these characters lack substantial ways to combo Yoshi due to his easy combo break double jump, so this matchup is generally all about who can punish Yoshi harder, or punish him harder off stage, and Marth has a noticeable advantage in both these areas.

So yeah, that's my thoughts on these matchups. With everything culminated together, I still can't see how Marth has a slight advantage on Yoshi. It's at least somewhere even, and Lucina is slightly below wherever Marth is I feel.

 

[Y2Kay]

I honestly don't think that Yoshi has a slight disadvantage to Marth. If we are being super nice, I feel it's 50:50 (even but difficult), but 50:50 (even) seems nearer the truth. In turn, I'd also put Lucina in 55:45.

Yoshi's relatively good frame data is enough to keep the Marth matchup even. While his Nair can pose a threat to Marth up close, luckily, Marth definitely has the aerial move advantage. Marth however must be wary of Yoshi's aerial mobility, as Yoshi can suddenly be upon him due to his speed. But then Yoshi must also be wary because he lacks a solid safe way to deal with Marth's disjoint, so he must respect it. The thing with this matchup, is that Yoshi has tools that he can use to pick Marth apart, but actually getting in there to do so can pose some trouble, due to Marth's range and quick ground normal, and his good aerial moves.

The thing about Lucina, is that she lacks a tipper, and I feel this is a matchup where it can hinder her where Marth has it as a noticeable advantage. Basically, unless she lands a raw Fsmash, it can be relatively tough to land a KO. Sure, she can Jab to Fsmash, but that's not true until very high percents, but even then, Yoshi's Super Armor double jump is a "get out of jail free" card, and prevents accidental mistakes. So Jab to Ftilt is the best option here, and Lucina cannot KO off of it until above 150%. Marth, however, can KO with this at around 120%. Another disadvantage to no tipper is the lower knockback. Basically, if Marth hits a tipper in neutral or during footsies at a relatively high percent, it can put Yoshi in a difficult position off stage because of their power. Lucina's blade (or Marth's sourspots) won't hit him far enough to pose enough of a threat until very high percents. This makes her edgeguarding game weaker. Due to the decreased power of her aerials compared to Marth's tippered aerials, Yoshi can sometimes survive a Fair or Bair when Marth hitting with tipper Fair or Bair would KO. Both of these characters lack substantial ways to combo Yoshi due to his easy combo break double jump, so this matchup is generally all about who can punish Yoshi harder, or punish him harder off stage, and Marth has a noticeable advantage in both these areas.

So yeah, that's my thoughts on these matchups. With everything culminated together, I still can't see how Marth has a slight advantage on Yoshi. It's at least somewhere even, and Lucina is slightly below wherever Marth is I feel.

TFW ur in the Mewtwo thread when your thought you where in the Marth thread

 

[Bowserboy3]

TFW ur in the Mewtwo thread when your thought you where in the Marth thread

View attachment 106465

Whoops! I just saw something called "Yoshi Matchup Chart", and saw Marth in an iffy placement, and that instantly got my brain going, so I totally didn't notice! xD *hides in an embarrassed huddle in a corner*

But boy, that image is disorienting!

---

So now I know where I am, I suppose I'll at least leave something possibly of relevance...

Mewtwo v Yoshi: I feel that Yoshi v Mewtwo could be relatively even. Of course, I'm not as seasoned as you Mewtwo mains, but from what I have used of Mewtwo, I know his speed comes in handy a lot in this matchup, for escaping and phasing in and out of Yoshi with Fair. I feel that Mewtwo being large is the only real thing that hinders him in this matchup, because it just becomes a whole lot easier for Yoshi to get that Fair spike. However, Mewtwo has a great projectile, good range, and a fantastic tool in Fair.

Yeah, I feel Mewtwo is at least even in this matchup, if not slightly in his favour.

 

[RaptorTEC]

View attachment 106463

We haven't been hearing much from the Yoshi's side

RaptorTEC how do u feel?

That's my mu chart lol but I guess I'm leaning towards Yoshi losing slightly now. From my experience Yoshi always feels like he is at a disadvantage except when we have mewtwo above us. It's extremely difficult to get in on mewtwo and in last hit situations mewtwo should never lose. I have yet to play a really good mewtwo so my assumption that we lose slightly could still be wrong. I'm just assuming if I were to play Abadango or so it would go much differently from the mewtwos I have played.