Meta Match Up Discussion - Vs. Rosalina & Luma

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General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

***For general questions not related to the current topic in this thread please use the General Match Up thread.***

This thread shall last for around 8-9 days, with the next thread opening up in about 5-7 days.

 

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Been holding off on this this one purposely for a while given the RosaLuma board did this match up the same week this restarted, despite this one being popular.

"Insert mandatory joke about Mewtwo's weight vs. Rosalina's weight & Luma defense."

Tagging Mario & Sonic Guy since they seem to be increasingly active on this board.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There isn't much that I can contribute right now, since the Rosalina sub-forum has not analyzed Mewtwo after it received its 1.1.3 buffs. What I can do though, is quote a well-made post that meleebrawler made on our side of the picture.

As Rosalina it can be pretty easy to underestimate Mewtwo. He's a big target and can die pretty early to a good Luma smash or uair, not to mention he is easily outranged with Luma out like most characters.

However, he has some unexpectedly good tools to help deal with the little star, the most unassuming one being uncharged shadow balls. They easily chip away at Luma's health until he can be launched by a safe move like Mewtwo's dtilt, and if Rosalina tries to pull them when Mewtwo is too close he can easily punish with a dash attack, which will also send Luma flying easily. He can also use his down throw to hit Luma if he grabs Rosa with him around.

Due to Rosalina's height, Mewtwo can use short-hopped nairs to good effect against her, not to mention easier surprise shadow claws or dairs.

With Luma around Confusion is hard to use without Luma retaliating, and it is very hard for him to land a Disable since Luma will usually take the hit, and even if he doesn't he can still freely attack while Rosalina is stunned. Without him, the two characters have comparable reach but Mewtwo hits harder with both more powerful moves and better combo ability, attacking Mewtwo following a Confusion becomes very risky leaving jumping away as the best option, and disable can severely punish a whiffed move.

Offstage, it is very difficult to edge guard Mewtwo if the player knows what they're doing since Mewtwo has many options to recover with and evade attacks. Jumping out to meet him at the side will usually result in him teleporting past you, and his big second jump coupled with his good airdodge give him better mixup potential on the ledge than most would have you believe. On the flip side, Mewtwo can go extremely deep to edgeguard and is very good at exploiting the lack of a hitbox on Launch Star with his nair.

Finally, Mewtwo has surprisingly good mobility on both the ground and the air which, coupled with his Confusion jump, good airdodge and teleport, help him avoid engagements with Rosaluma that would normally leave him at a disadvantage. It also helps him reset to neutral more easily.

With defaults this is most likely even since it mostly comes down to who is more patient and makes less mistakes, and Rosalina doesn't really die that much later compared to Mewtwo, especially since she is a slow faller and Mewtwo's best kill moves do it off the top. In customs probably 55-45 for Rosalina since she gains Shooting Star Bit and Luma Warp that Mewtwo has to watch out for, but other than that nothing that drastically changes the game.

 

[meleebrawler]

The match-up hasn't changed too significantly, but Mewtwo has nonetheless gained a few new advantages:

- With his improved movement speed, punishing improper use of Gravitational Pull is easier (whether via baby shadow ball or charging). In general, while it may be difficult to actually hit Rosalina with a charged ball, it can still have a potent psychological effect, especially in regards to protecting Luma.

- His newly improved uair makes it easier for him to kill Rosalina off the top from a mistake.

- The improved landing lag makes his aerial approaches better than ever, though still not recommended much with Luma.

 

[ShadowKing]

Shadow ball is a great shield option (when Rosa is in shield)and kill option for Luma

as meleebrawler has stated his many buff's support his approach and for Luma confusion to reflect back the attack

 

[Aninymouse]

So, last time, with Bowser, I found some great Mewtwo vs. Bowser footage... but it was already the end of the thread. Everyone gave up instead of analyzing the video.

This time I'm going to look up some Rosalina vs. Mewtwo video now, early. I'll post it when I find it. Study the videos to see if you pick up on some nuanced things you had not noticed before.

Hopefully I find something decent.

Edit: Okay, I found one decent example so far:

http://youtu.be/7zUIMv9qQ7E

Notice how you cannot pummel Rosa, because Luma can hit you out of your grab.

Pay attention to how Rosa plays in neutral: what attacks and movements does she like to use?

Luma's Uair is a devastating kill move, so avoiding being juggled or chased in the air is paramount. Use air dodge, Confusion, and Teleport as needed to gtfo of Luma's way while airborne.

Notice how Mewtwo's dash attack, smashes, Shadow Ball, and Dtilt are all great at disrupting Luma. Notice how Confusion while grounded seems especially poor. Rosalina gains a lot from rolling back, so look for a habit like that to punish with, say, dash attack.

You'll notice that the Mewtwo player started respecting Rosalina way too much in that second half, giving her tons of room to gain stage control. This is very bad. He also let her land safely several times.

Things we don't see: SHAD or Phasing Fair, which would have been important to analyze. Disable was not used, so we didn't see if Luma would absorb that hit or not. Jab 1 was not used to combo. I'm sure there is much more, but this video at least gives y'all a taste of the matchup and a point of reference.

 

[Aninymouse]

I found another example video, but it's pre-patch. All the way back to August.

Mew² vs. iiGGY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-y-J9XXL9iY

Both players seem a bit unfamiliar with the matchup.

Comparing the last video, 1.1.3, to this video, we see that Mewtwo seems to be on much more equal footing now, due to the faster speed and other changes. Before 1.1.3, it looks like it could have been a 60:40 matchup. Now, I'd say it's closer to even.

Edit: Here's a 1.1.3 rematch!

http://youtu.be/msO4fQg_VsM

 

[Aninymouse]

A random tip: Luma's star bits aren't projectiles, but huge disjoints. They cannot be reflected, so don't waste your time trying.