Meta Match Up Discussion - Vs. Ganondorf

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General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

***For general questions not related to the current topic in this thread please use the General Match Up thread.***

This thread shall last for around 8-9 days, with the next thread opening up in about 5-7 days.

 

[ShadowKing]

This is for sure in m2s favor for many reasons. A. You can easily out space ganon and B. Ganon is slow plus all his moves come out every slow excluding flame choke and wizard foot.

Yes ganon can kill m2 at a very low % but with m2s many spacing options like bair,sb and even fair. With m2s buffs in the 1.1.4 patch and 1.1.5 patch his speed and nearly no landing lag he has the ability to keep up the pressure against ganon.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Slight advantage Mewtwo. He controls the pace of the match thanks to the threat of Shadow Ball, and his spacing tools like Fair and Dtilt outclass Ganon's. He also combos and edgeguards Ganon well. However, he also dies really early and has to fear Ganon's burst mobility options like Flame Choke, Wizkick, and Dash Attack. The Wizkick and Dash Attack buffs also help Dorf to chase down M2's landings. From what I've played of this MU in 1.1.5, it's very volatile and can go either way, but M2 has more control over how the match will be played, and thus has the slight edge.

 

[Deleted member]

This matchup makes me uncomfortable.

We win, but it still makes me uncomfortable.

Despite Ganon's slow mobility in both the ground in the air, his damage output and range are not to be sheered off. We have to play patient in careful in this MU, it's one where it really tests our glass cannon archetype.

My tips and thoughts, since I'm tired rn and don't wanna write out full paragraphs:

• Fear Ganon's dash attack. It's reasonably fast, can kill, and he has kill confirms off of it (such as sour DA into uair).
• Be careful with how you shield. Many of Ganon's attacks deal high shield damage, and our low traction makes it hard for us to punish him out of shield properly. Perfectshielding is key in this matchup in my opinion.
• My best experiences with this matchup have been on Final Destination and Town & City. Mewtwo has more room to breathe and can keep out Ganon better with his disjoints and take on a more patient playstyle than on somewhere smaller like Battlefield or Smashvile.
• Wizkick is relatively easy to punish on shield considering Ganon slows down when he hits an opponent. Dash attack or a grab is your safest bet.
• Flame Choke can be scary to get grabbed by considering our large frame. Be mindful of it.
• Nair juggles are hella good against Ganon. Use small Shadow Balls, dtilt and fair to space him out, and use your airdodge wisely.

Basically, be mindful of all your actions against Ganon. It's a very volatile MU. Both characters can kill each other as early as another. 50:50 in my opinion.

 

[J2_]

I see you posted this after I lost to Ganon at my regional.

Thanks m8 :^)

 

[Mr. B]

Ganondorf is weakest when he is baited, since he is super punishable and laggy (I get more disables against him than any other character) but a reactionary Ganon who knows his moves will be very difficult to beat.

My strategy with this MU is to carefully watch whether he walks or runs. If he is a runner, you are probably gonna have lots of success with disable punishes (SHADFF > Disable > FSmash), but if he is a walker, give him heavy respect - stay back and spam shadowball, do not run in and instead force him to be proactive instead of reactive. Bthrow him off stage once his % is high enough rather than using smashes.

Once you have got him offstage don't be afraid to follow him. If he recovers low then he follows a predictable enough trajectory for meteorising (I also get more successful DAir spikes against Ganons than any other character), and he also really hates to be dragged down with offstage NAirs. He just cant come back from that.

 

[Chiroz]

I would say this is slightly in Mewtwo's advantage. 55:45.

This is for sure in m2s favor for many reasons. A. You can easily out space ganon and B. Ganon is slow plus all his moves come out every slow excluding flame choke and wizard foot.

Yes ganon can kill m2 at a very low % but with m2s many spacing options like bair,sb and even fair. With m2s buffs in the 1.1.4 patch and 1.1.5 patch his speed and nearly no landing lag he has the ability to keep up the pressure against ganon.

This post is not accurate at all.

Both Flame Choke and Wizard foot have slow startup and are some of the easiest moves to avoid since you should always be positioned in a way where he can't land them safely. He will mostly be landing them when reading your jump or your dash startup because he knows your options are limited.

Ganondorf has faster aerials than us, has more range and covers much more space with every single aerial making challenging Ganondorf in the air a bad idea. Except for F-Air, Mewtwo cannot really compete with Ganon's aerial range + speed, he has to rely on grounded game or baiting out Ganondorf.

Ganondorf's Jab, F-Tilt and D-Tilt have slightly slower start up than our Jab or D-Tilt, but they have a ton more range. I would say in general avoid being in a boxing position with him since his Jab is so dominating (And his grab leads into 20-40% combos).

Ganondorf has a decent amount of endlag on his grounded moves and his aerials are pretty much telegraphed due to his slow mobility, so he will also be relying completely on baiting you.

The difference here is Mewtwo needs to win neutral around 10-20 times on average to land a kill, while Ganon on average only needs to win it 4-5 times. But Mewtwo has a MUCH better neutral and is able to play very campy if need be with Shadow Balls. Plus he can capitalize easier on mistakes since he can get in much faster.