Marth Lightshield Edge Guard

[cloudz]

can ice climbers pull it off?

and if they can...then how? lolz


im not to sure of how it works and i cant wait for wobbles to give me an essay on it

 

[Paradigm]

If you're hit when you light shield you're pushed back farther than if you used the full shield.

Hitting someone in their shield when they're near the edge of a platform (or the stage) will push them off. In the right situation, it can knock someone into holding the edge.

The idea here is Marth's Up-B will actually knock you back down to the edge to edge hog. You have to be holding the stick away from the stage, so you fall back instead of back onto the stage. Additionally, you must be facing the stage (can't grab the edge if you're facing the wrong way). In order for this to work you have to fall fast enough to get the edge after getting hit with the up-b but before Marth does. The window isn't huge, and makes this harder with floatier characters. Usually you'll see this done with fast fallers like fox or Capt'n. I believe it is possible to manually fastfall in that window to slightly lessen the timeframe Marth has to grab the edge, but I'm not sure.

I don't think IC's fall fast enough, but I haven't tried this with them. It should be relatively easy to test with a friend. First do it with a fastfaller that you know it will work with to make sure you get the idea, then try with the IC's.

I've found while this technique is cool, manually wavedashing off to edgehog works fine. IC's have an awesome wavedash, I'd most likely go about it that way (although my IC's aren't the best, someone else here may have better advice).

 

[choknater]

The purpose is mostly to give Marth a difficult choice: If he sweet spots, he will get ledge hogged. If he doesn't sweetspot, he is set up for an easy grab or something to that effect. I remember PC's godly edgeguarding against m2k at 0c3... m2k was accurate enough to land just above the stage so he doesnt get hogged, but PC didnt DI to the ledge, and jumped out of his shield and shined instead.

 

[Wobbles]

I thought I was just being thorough.

The point of the light shield edgehog is that no matter how much Marth stalls using forward+b and his double jump, and mixes up the timing of his up+b, he can't get past you. If you were to light shield edgehog, force him over the edge, and stand up, then you would get a free grab. You could then smash him up, reverse smash, do a combo, KO him, whatever. With a normal edgehog it's incredibly difficult to time it such that you stay invincible through his f-airs, forward+b's, and up+b.

The light shield edgehog is the way to do it without having to time your edgehog.

 

[Smasher89]

I often use this against marthplayers, those not too good sweetspotting get either edgehogged or often grabed to backthrow by Nana, the part about Nana spamming grabs might get helpful sometimes^^, and sometimes just standing there, and jumps for a suprise bair can be helpful...

 

[cloudz]

thank you!!

so if you are all the way on the edge and light shielding then marth cant grab the edge?

 

[Smasher89]

cloudz, he can but he will have much more problem getting it, getting an extra advantage in the edgeguard...

 

[cloudz]

have you guys seen any videos where this is sucessful? or should i ask zjiin to make another one for me!

He totally rocks with Ice climber advanced techniques. Z-tossing AND Quad Ice block videos

 

[curiousthoughtsbear]

Yo dan how's it goin? I'm in Wisconsin at the moment, there are alot better players here than I previously thought, eg. Tapion plays alot up here.

Tis Aj

 

[Smasher89]

cloudz- crappy quality, but check marths first stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOypkRTgFhw

 

[cloudz]

oh wow now i totally understand! thats amazing and i am SO in love with you


thank you Smasher89 does this work against any other characters??

 

[Wobbles]

It works against a Luigi that fails to sweetspot, I think. No other character has a rising, single hit up+b though.

Maybe it works against Pikachu? That would be cool.

 

[Lixivium]

It works against a Luigi that fails to sweetspot, I think. No other character has a rising, single hit up+b though.

Maybe it works against Pikachu? That would be cool.

I've seen it work against G&W, it might work against Doc...can't think of any others.

 

[Chaudgobay]

Wobbles, put in pikachu isn't really useful right ?

cause his upb has a little lag after it, so you'll can't use his upb against it

against G&W it works well, luigi and marth too

but i have a doubt, when i was training this technique i tried something and it works sometime, to a lightshield with Nana and Little shield with Popo (assuming Nana as the secundary ics)...só Nana will do the edge guard and Popo will stay in the edge to grab, use some smash or something like that

this works sometimes like i said, but i can't used it always
i want to know if someone can do it always and where i'm making the mistake

 

[Reside]

having nana light sheild with out popo to edgegaurd a marth works for me consistantly. I also do this a lot when im trying to sheild grab, have nana light sheild and they push nana back and popo doesnt move back as far getting the grab.

 

[Lixivium]

but i have a doubt, when i was training this technique i tried something and it works sometime, to a lightshield with Nana and Little shield with Popo (assuming Nana as the secundary ics)...só Nana will do the edge guard and Popo will stay in the edge to grab, use some smash or something like that

****, that sounds like an awesome idea. I've got to try this.

 

[lillight3]

cloudz is just trying to get every advantage on me as possible even though i always get punished for my rolling habits :-p

but on the marth boards this questiong was brought up as to if marth could do it to another marth. It is possible but the window for the fast fall to happen is incredibly slim so if ICs fall slower than marth, then it is something that will take a lot of practice to pull off and cannot easily be done. however, a normal edgehog forcing a marth to up B onto the stage would work fine cause if you can time it right, you can get back onto the stage before the marth has time to move due to the dolphin slash's landing lag and grab+down throw+upsmash=death (if at a high enough damage and depending on DI of course)

 

[Chaudgobay]

cloudz is just trying to get every advantage on me as possible even though i always get punished for my rolling habits :-p

but on the marth boards this questiong was brought up as to if marth could do it to another marth. It is possible but the window for the fast fall to happen is incredibly slim so if ICs fall slower than marth, then it is something that will take a lot of practice to pull off and cannot easily be done. however, a normal edgehog forcing a marth to up B onto the stage would work fine cause if you can time it right, you can get back onto the stage before the marth has time to move due to the dolphin slash's landing lag and grab+down throw+upsmash=death (if at a high enough damage and depending on DI of course)

this edge guard can be more dificult than u talk...m2k show to us another marth recovery, the dolphin smash little high, edge cancel and edge hog with marth, this recovery cancel the edge guard that u talked about

 

[lillight3]

i have never seen this ever but you should put it on the marth boards

but a majority of the time edgehogging will out prioritize this. ics have way more options than any other character to edgeguard since they you should know how to do the up b and have nana grab the edge and the thing where popo edgehogs and as he is getting up you have nana foward/downsmash