Mario's Defensive/Oos Options

[AssTAStic_ACA]

I'm not that bad of a player, but in tournament i find myself being a lil too aggressive and don't utilize good defensive options. I can already wavedash Oos but i feel that's only the tip of the iceberg. Any suggestions out there?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

... There really isn't that much to being defensive. You can just camp or not approach. Good DD and wavedashes can go a long way. Watch videos and you'll find the answer.

 

[Altanic]

Pretty much what nameless said. Just keep distance with dashdance, wavedashes and fireballs. If you can do it fast enough you can space backair or do runaway backairs. Mario has excellent punishes because he can combo for dayyyyys so just try to be patient and punish mistakes, you should be fine.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Thanks guys. Lately ive been trying to change my general style of play, after watching a video of me in tournament. Slowly cutting out all my unnecessary movement and properly spacing tilts have been doing wonder for me. Soon i will probably upload a video so people can critique my mario game to get more tips.

 

[Altanic]

Mix wavedashing into your dash dance, that's very useful for juking. Wavedashing backwards then forwards can be a good approach for a punish, if you trick them (like a Fox runs in for up smash.) Wavedashing and wavelanding in general are extremely useful for increasing, speeding up, and making better combos as well as opening up more movement and approach options. Dtilt - upair - dair works and can generally be followed up with another dtilt - nair or fair. Getting the meteor hitbox on fair can be useful at time. It can lead to big punishes, like another fair or nair if by the edge. Jab - jab - dtilt - utilt - grab - downthrow - Fsmash is a 42% combo that can be done at 0% as long as you can follow their DI. Fireballs follow up into so many things, so get used to short and full hopping while moving and shooting.

Edit: Also sweetspot nair all the time unless you're walling or setting up an edgeguard. You will soon love the nair.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

To be real, wavedashes and wavelands, during combos aren't that amazing for mario because it's 10 frames of lag and a regular jump has 4 frames. If he was on par with spacies, in terms of speed and what not, it would be a much better option. If you're wavelanding and crap, mid combo, you could probably spend that time a little better, wether it be positioning, reading or spacing, instead of trying to look fly.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Again im not horrible , and do place decently (most notable 9th at spring fighter, not that good but meh). Im not saying that to sound know it all like or conceited because i do have a ways to go, I'm just trying to give you a general understanding of my level. My problem actually stemmed from my unnecessary wavedashing and wavelanding in game. With proper camping, good dash dancing, and superb tilt spacing i have seen some good results, though small since im pretty much changing my whole play style which can be a slow process. Mainly what i was looking for were other defensive options other than what i already know and thought maybe some players here do something that i don't. Like perhaps like nair out of shield on X characters and such. Also ive been looking at Gallo's jab, D-tilt shield pressure and been trying to emulate it. Like nameless said wavedashing for mario isnt that amazing, though i kinda disagree with wavelanding. SH, U-air, wavelands are sooooooo swag though lolz.

 

[Altanic]

Lol wtf it's not about "looking fly." It's about using those techniques to continue combos while they are still in hitstun or improve your spacing. Wavedashing with Mario isn't godly, I never said it was, but it is USEFUL. Whether it be to create distance, juke, or close distance, whatever. If you can use a wavedash or a waveland to gain that extra distance to follow up with a bair or nair or something, then do it, because Mario can use those techniques quite effectively to keep things going. Spacing properly and using fireballs and dash dancing is a given. I'm not saying wavedash or waveland all over the ****ing stage because #swag or else you will get punished for doing it unnecessarily (especially with those extra lag frames that you mentioned) if you aren't paying attention to what you're doing and making bad decisions like using them to approach all the time or doing it too much that you leave yourself open because of lag. If you use them intelligently then at least from my experience they can be quite beneficial to his combo and spacing game. Mario can waveland off of platforms and dair, fair, nair, or bair while dropping down for example (you know, from a read or something like that.)
Look, I'm not trying to sound like a ****, but your post sounded so dismissive of the potential that waves have. The amount of frames is irrelevant if your playing smart. I use waves a lot when playing with my friends, and it has definitely helped me create larger combos and improved my spacing. I used to be reckless too, until I got wrecked for it all the time and I learned. It's all about how and when you use it. I hope that cleared this up a little bit, or at least clarified on what I was meaning in my post, because I think this was a misunderstanding.
As for pressuring shields or OOS, Dair to dsmash on shield can apply pretty good pressure as the dsmash will push them away if they are shielding still. If they don't shield it it also doubles as a pretty good combo, and if they DI out of dair you might get them with the dsmash when you land, or you might push them away if they shield it when they escape. Just remember to be safe and don't go for more than you think or you can afford. If they escape the dair and roll away, you probably don't want to try for a dsmash.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Maybe you should settle down, then read again. The point of saying the frames used, is to show the valuable wasted time. There is 6 frame difference from which you can act, an that is a big deal. The waveland/wavedash looks cool mid combo, I know, but it just happens to be better to "NOT", do those options, more often than not. I didn't say it was bad or not an option, don't misunderstand. However, I did say that you can spend those frames better and you should.

 

[Altanic]

Maybe you should settle down, then read again. The point of saying the frames used, is to show the valuable wasted time. There is 6 frame difference from which you can act, an that is a big deal. The waveland/wavedash looks cool mid combo, I know, but it just happens to be better to "NOT", do those options, more often than not. I didn't say it was bad or not an option, don't misunderstand. However, I did say that you can spend those frames better and you should.

I think the wavedash/land during combos is more situational than anything. It's not always guaranteed but sometimes you can manage to follow up combos using them. I agree that is generally better to not do it since the lag frames are punishable, I think it'd probably be a better option to use them to improve your spacing, like after a combo has been finished. And I agree with your last bit about spending your frames better, since it is good to keep your options open or you could be using fireballs or dash dancing. My apologies though, I got this kind of shots-fired vibe from your first post about "looking fly" and that had bothered me.

 

[Jolly Himawari]

I find that crouch cancel -> D-Smash works pretty well. Also if you're up against a slower character, WD back -> D-Smash (or F-Smash, although often D-Smash is a better option because it's faster). He can also use his fireballs to create a safe opening.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

BTW i found out the other day that mario can JC up smash out of sheild. I know that may have been obvious to many and maybe situational for a Oos option but it h as definitely helped my game.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

In the past, it was a better option than it was now. Because your head used to be intangible. It's only ok now.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

yea it is an ok option. Since people don't throw it out like that, it can catch some of guard.

 

[yellowdee]

I like get in close, then dash out, shorthop, and reverse-b a fireball.

if you're careful, this keeps you very safe and throws a wrench in your opponent's approach. I'd say this is by far my favorite defensive option in general, and I think it works very well in the Marth matchup specifically.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Speaking of Marth... I doubt the Marth MU got any better this patch. It's probably worse now.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

From my experience NAir out of shield gives me the most success out of anything else when your opponent is in range on block.

And thing else can usually be spaced for a whiff punished pretty easily if they are in range giving the sheer speed of the attacks, but usually UAir and BAir respectively depending on their location

Hope this helps.