Manic's Campaign Help Thread - Your source for Fighter Campaign information!

[Manic Rykker]

Introduction

The purpose of this thread is to help campaign managers, and their supporters. I will be going over many various topics that will hopefully be of great assistance. Here you will find information ranging from dealing with detractors and parrots, to a list of notable campaigns! I hope the information in this thread will be of use. Happy reading!

NO SQUAWKS
DETRACTORS & PARROTS
Detractors can be a very thorny group to deal with. In the spoiler below, I will discuss detractors, (and the parrots that crop up due to their presence) and I will provide tips on how you can deal with them.

Spoiler

We have all ran into detractors before. Be it on Smashboards, or through out the internet. These guys can be very harmful for a Character campaign thread, in some cases very rude, and all in all, can really result in all out flame wars.

So who are detractors you ask? In terms of smash, we all know we have characters we dislike. Some with a passion. Most of us can hold that hatred in, and stay calm, and not bash those that "do" like the character. However, there are of course some out there that take things too far, and will go on all out crusades against a certain character. They will especially often attack character support threads, to try to hinder their growth. This usually stems from a fear that other characters could "steal slots" from their own character, and can lower their chances, and prevent them from getting into Smash. (We of course know this isn't true.. this is only paranoia.) Thus, they will often go out of their way to find threads supporting characters they dislike, or other corners of the internet to try to hinder them. (Like Youtube for instance.)

Of course, one could just ignore them, as we often try to do here on the forums. However, in terms of Smash campaign threads, the statements from these detractors (whether they are trolls, or true "haters" of a particular character) can be more harmful than you might expect.. These statements are often heavily unfounded, and FULL of false information... This wouldn't be so bad if most of us weren't prone to reading every single thing we see as fact, and start parroting them ourselves.

In order to truly deal with these bad seeds, you need to be polite, organized, and calm. In this thread, I will go into detail how YOU all can help against the spread of false information against characters.. (Remember, this is a ballot. There are many out there that are treating this like an all out war, and taking things too far..) This thread applies to ALL campaigns. It can be used by all users, as well as the head of support threads. There is a lot of information in this, so please try to bare with me as we go along.

PARROTS
Before I go on, I'll explain what parrots are, or as I like to call them, "Squawks". Squawks are the people that take practically everything they read as fact. If it sounds convincing to them, they will start "parroting" it around like it is the truth, even though they haven't even bothered to research it themselves. These guys can be a bit easier to shut down though, as usually they are just misinformed. Most of the time some facts and counters can help straighten them out, and help them realize they were parading around a lie. (Of course there will be think heads, but don't worry about those.)

SKEPTICS
Skeptics are another group you can often run into. They usually provide arguments against the character as well, but they are generally more polite, and civil in discussion. Unlike detractors, who often produce their arguments out of hate or fear, the skeptics just question whether that character would be a fit for Smash or not. More often than not, they can be swayed more easily than contractors. In some cases you may even end up with a new ally. This is why it is always worth while to engage opponents to a character.

So how can I deal with these guys?

Well, the answer is actually quite simple..: Fight back. Shooting down detractor's arguments with logical facts and counters can be beneficial, help prevent that spread of false information, and can help prevent any lies from fooling people. Of course, you have to know how to do it right... An organized response politely deflecting the detractor's claims can easily shut them down. Even the most persistent detractor has a breaking point. You can only come up with so many detractions (be them strawmen, or otherwise) before you start running out of ideas, and try to pull out of the tussle. (For example, the "it's pointless to argue" statements, and similar responses.. once you get those, you, in reality, just have them pinned/burnt out.)

I'll show you how to deal with these detractors in an appropriate manner, so as to not cause riots, or damage yourself:

- For starters, pay attention to the situation. If they are just saying things like "I just don't think <insert character> will get in" or "I'm not a fan of <character>", there is no need to start a confrontation. What you really need to look for are the strawman arguments and other detractions that could poison user's views of that character (Smash-wise or not..). That is when you prepare to engage the user.

- Politely, and calmly take on the user's claims. Use real solid evidence and counter arguments to shoot down the detractions, but not necessarily through cursing (Cursing is NEVER the way to make a point... It just makes you look stupid, and reflects badly on the campaigns as well.. Plus it will get you in trouble with moderators anyway! DON'T be a potty mouth XD)

- If the user prepares more arguments, proceed to picking those apart. If they try to continue to hoist their arguments like they are fact, even though you just shot them down, politely bid them farewell, and just leave it be. There is no reason trying to argue with a troll. What matters is that you planted your seed of reason. Most will see that response, and will know better, thanks to your efforts. Your attempts, be them successful or unsuccessful, can help prevent parrots. (Users/people that take EVERYTHING they read to heart, and start spouting them all over the place as if they are fact (even though they aren't true..))

-If they switch to new arguments, continue to press on until you reach that inevitable checkmate. They will eventually start trying to pull out of it by saying the likes of "There is no point in arguing" or something like that. When they stop giving arguments, its not that they don't want to argue.. it's just they have ran out of ammo to argue with.. You have just shut them down.

As some tips:

-Don't try to detract from other characters, if possible. This is often the sort of thing that will start a flame war. If you start talking trash about another character ( ESPECIALLY in their own thread..), you WILL get negative feed back, and your point will be lost. Instead, keep detractions against competition to a minimum. ONLY engage against that character if it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. For example if they are using that shamelessly using that character as the back bone for their arguments.. Even then, try to be nice about toasting them. Throw arguments as to why that character wouldn't get in over the character they are detracting. (Again, be polite.. don't necessarily flat out state their character will not join Smash, as that too, could start an unnecessary flame war.)

Remember: Your goal is to prevent a character from being dragged down by poor arguments. It is NOT to pick apart other campaigns. In a way, think of it as defusing a bomb. If you go about it hostilely, and negatively, you could end up cutting the wrong wire, and causing the whole thing to blow up. We of course don't want that. Care is key in these situations to prevent campaign wars.

Another thing I usually see detractors frequently tackle: Fighters that are "already in the game" as assist trophies. As, apparently this automatically counts them out. Well, I have a way for you to tackle these pathetic arguments.

- It could be possible for them to just make the assist trophy for the fighter have a 0% of appearing in the stage while the character is being controlled. It's sorta like how Toon link can't appear conducting the train in the spirit tracks stage While he is fighting, as an example.

I say this as I see a lot of detractors use that argument, and to be honest, it is very sad. All it is is just fear of stolen slots, as I mentioned. They just want people to "count them out", and not try to vote for them. This is a ballot, and as they stated, ALL videogame characters are eligible. It doesn't say "All videogame characters are eligible, except for assist trophies..."

All in all, the most important thing to take out of all this while dealing with detractors:: Be calm, be smart, and be polite. If you shut down the arguments politely, things will be fine. Do NOT be rude. It doesn't help.

So what else can we do?
Well, there is something else you can set up for your thread as well. This will ESPECIALLY help if you support a character that often gets unfounded, and uncalled for flak.

Anti-Detractor Walls.
What that is basically, is a list of various detractions shut down with logical, and effective facts and counter arguments. It can be placed in the OP of your thread, as a defense against false information. Not only do they help keep this false information to a minimum, it can also serve as a guide to your fellow supporters and assist them.
To start, think of the usual, common arguments people like to throw against the character. Set up your fact/counter against this, and add it to the wall.

Basically put, you build up the wall even further whenever you encounter a new argument against the character you don't have a counter for. This is why it can be fun and helpful to the campaigns to engage these detractors: They can, in an ironic twist, end up helping you organize your defense. As you are always bound to run into a new point from them after you shut down the usual generic counters they usually throw against a character.

Starting up campaign threads
With the introduction of the Super Smash bros Ballot, Campaign/support threads for various characters have become even more prominent. Many of us often want to create threads for a character we believe should be in the game. Without proper preparation, and knowing what conditions have to be met to be able to set up a thread however, the thread can end up locked, and your time wasted. In the next spoiler, I will give a tutorial on how to set up a campaign/support thread for a fighter.

Spoiler

Searching for your thread
Before you attempt to create ANYTHING, the first thing you need to do is make sure there isn't already a support thread in existence on the boards for that character. I can't tell you how often I've seen unknowing users try to create a campaign, and end up with it getting locked/shut down because they didn't bother to check and see if one exists or not. To do this, just simply go to the searchbar to the top right of the site, and search your character's name. (Like say.. "Meta Knight" as an example) You then click the "titles only" checkbox, and search. Most of the time, if a thread already exists, the campaign will appear in the search results.

If the campaign thread is still active, just contribute your ideas to that! If, however, for whatever reason it isn't active (either from being locked for various reasons, like a previous confirmation rendering the thread unnecessary in the past, or whatever the reason may be), you might need to look into getting it revived. To do this you will need to contact a moderator. You may either end up with permission to start a new thread all together, or the old thread may be unlocked, and revived. If you want to take over that thread (being about to edit the OP and what not), you will need to refer to the moderator as well! If however, a thread does not exist, and you want to figure out how to create one from scratch, read on!

Starting a new thread
Starting a new support thread can be exciting, however you must make sure it is executed correctly. You will need to get the attention of the users. Here are some things you can prepare! (Note, this is of course not all one could use in the OP. I'm sure there are some other things you could use as well.):

-An introduction: This is where it all starts. You'll need to hook the reader, and get them interested in viewin the campaign. It needs to be short and sweet.

-Possible movesets: One thing that can also help get users interested is possible movesets. Setting up movesets, and allowing other users set up movesets as well can help engage your future supporters, and also give an idea on how the character would (probably) play if they got in.

-Alternate colors/costumes: As you know, all fighters in smash for Wii U/3DS have 8 alt costumes. The same would apply to your character. Think of good alternate colors, and alternate costumes. This can be anything from simple recolors, to alternate costumes from their franchise! (Like how Link has a Dark Link costume)

-Trophies, Stages, Music, and Assists: These concepts help get the creative juices flowing! Setting up possible trophies, stages, music that could be heard on thier stage, and assist trophies can further add to your campaign's meat.

- The big "Why?": In this portion, explain why the character would be a cool addition to Super Smash bros.

-Anti-detractor wall: This, explained in the previous section, is a list of arguments against your character that have been shutdown with various logical facts and counters. Not only can it help ease the spread of false information and discourage squawks, it can also assist supporters in dealing with these bad seeds!

-List of supporters: Here you can add a list of the users that support the campaign.

If you can't think of some things, don't worry! Future supporters can be a big help in adding to the OP, and giving you ideas.

Rallying support
So now that you have a campaign, if it catches on, eventually you will start to get some supporters. You of course will need to make sure the supports behave. You don't want any rude comments in your thread! ESPECIALLY AGAINST OTHER SUPPORT THREADS... Not only is this VERY bad, and could possibly get the thread locked, it can also cause all out flame wars in your thread... which can make things very unorganized. This is why it is extremely important that you keep the campaign clean, and polite.

Once the ball is rolling, you can start looking outside of Smashboards. Your supporters can help spread the concept around the web, and get people interested. (They can also use the information on detractors to help shut down the haters!)

CHARACTER ANALYSIS
So now that you have an idea of how Campaigns should work, and how to deal with unfounded hate from detractors (and possibly win over skeptics) ,now it's time to get into the meat and bone of a character. This section is going to stray a bit from the nature of the previous sections, and is going to go into a more logical aspect. This section will look deeper into how a fighter ticks, and will hopefully give you some much needed tips!

Spoiler

The first thing I'll be going over is character priority. Obviously when it comes to representatives for a franchise, there can be some things to consider.

Character Categories
The category of characters goes as follows (Would like to give a shout-out to GRC, since he is the one that inspired this aspect of this section!) Of course, mine will have tweaks, and possibly more categories to consider:

Main Protagonist - The main character of the Game/series/franchise. They are often the hero of the plot in a majority of the games they appear in, and are generally center stage
Examples in smash: ,, ,,,, etc.
Examples as a whole: , Rayman, etc.


Secondary Protagonist - This character frequently appears alongside the main protagonist. They can be anywhere from side kicks, to supporting characters who assist the hero in general.
Examples in smash: ,,,, etc.
Examples as a whole: Globox, Tails, etc.

Antagonist - The main villain/threat against the protagonist, and his pals. These characters are generally out to see the demise of the good guys, and often challenge the protagonist. Their goal is "usually" to take over the world, a territory... or to just be a jerkface to the good guys in general I suppose.
Examples in smash: ,, etc.
Examples as a whole: Ganon (Classic), Dr. Eggman, etc.


Secondary Antagonist - A villain/villains in the series that is a threat to the protagonists, but aren't necessarily the "Main" Antagonist. Despite this, they can appear almost as frequently as their major cohorts.
Examples in smash: ,,,,,,,

Anti-hero - Supporting characters that regularly rotate between being fought, supporting the main protagonist, and even being playable. They fall into this catagory due to their wide array of roles throughout their franchise.. otherwise, some characters would appear in several of the categories XD
Examples in smash: ,,,, etc.
Examples as a whole: Knuckles, Shadow, etc.


Mook - A character whom serves often as a grunt/enemy to get in the way of the protagonists. Sometimes they will serve the main antagonists, and others they are just there, in the way period.

Examples: There haven't been any real examples of this in Smash bros yet, but there are some key mooks that are more iconic and popularly requested than others. Like the koopa for example. Though it is technically a simple enemy most of the time, it has appeared frequently throughout the Mario series, especially in spinoffs. Could we see the fellow in a future installment? Maybe. Maybe not... but he is still, like a few other mooks, more noteable than the other lesser popular mooks.


Classic icon - These characters, while often protagonists in their series, appear in games/media that is considered cult classics/iconic, and thus by many are considered special fighters. Very nostalgic ones for many, at that! Their games can sometimes be one hit wonders, though there is an instance or two of comebacks... Though they may lack a large array of titles under their belts like some of the bigger iconic stars, like Mario, they are still just as nostalgic for many fans.
Examples in Smash: ,, etc.
Examples as a whole: Mach Rider, Balloon fighter, etc.


Protagonist Fill-in - Characters from games that are far more iconic than their own main protagonists, if they even have one.
Examples in Smash: ,,,, etc.


Pokemon - Pokemon - Characters that don't consistently fit into any of the above categories by their true definitions. Though their franchise is popular, Pokemon are a unique exception to many of the categories above. Due to this, the way reps for this franchise is chosen is different than other fighters. To explain:
1. The pokemon usually represents an older generation in the series as a whole, or in some cases, is iconic. (like )
2. The pokemon represents a current generation in the series.(like )


Main Protagonist Rule
If the fighter is from a franchise not currently represented in Smash, ask yourself this: Is the character the main protagonist for that franchise? I bring this up, as this is a point one REALLY needs to remember: The main protagonist of a series ALWAYS joins as a fighter FIRST. There are NO exceptions (This even technically applied to pokemon back in the first smash, as back then pikachu was, and for many still is the most iconic pokemon in the franchise, and as a whole is considered the mascot..).

The main protagonist is the primary choice to represent that franchise after all. This is thus why we see them in in first, and not one of their supporting characters. (Could you seriously picture say, Tails getting into Smash over/before Sonic?..) Thus, if you are campaigning for a character who is from a new franchise, but is a side character... focus on getting the main protagonist in first, thus putting them on the board in general.

Moveset Pool
Another key thing to keep in mind when supporting a fighter is their moveset pool. A moveset pool is the various attacks and moves from their franchise that can be pulled in and considered as a theoretical Smash fighter. Some characters have large pools, others... not so much. This of course doesn't rule out fighters with non-existent movesets though. Take Captain Falcon for example. Though he has technically never even stepped out of his racer before, he was still given a moveset, and became a fighter. More examples of characters that wouldn't "technically" have a moveset pool to pull from, but made it in regardless would be: R.O.B., and Duck Hunt.

All this considered, I will split up Moveset pools into two categories of their own:

Primary moveset pool - This moveset pool pulls from the characters known abilities and moves from their respective franchise. They are often canon to their world, and RARELY made up from scratch.

Secondary moveset pool - This moveset pool works differently than a primary. This pool pulls mainly from possible moves that could be created especially to make that character both work as a fighter, and unique to the game as well.

Some aspects of the Secondary pool can also be used a bit along side the Primary moveset pool as well. An example would be Bowser's Final Smash: Giga Bowser. That ability was created entire from scratch for Bowser to utilize in Smash. It is a move completely unique to the Smash Universe, and has never appeared in the main Mario series.

This said, it is important for one to remember this: Secondary pools are just that. "Secondary". They are often used when there are no other possibilities for a primary moveset pool for a character (especially if they don't have one at all), or if there is a particular move that lacks a good canon primary move.. Thus, you should only think about the secondary pool if you start to run out of concepts to pull from the canon primary pool.

Relevance
Relevance is also a key factor in determining a character's priority in Smash. It is especially relevant in the inclusion of characters like (Whom represents the current generation in the pokemon games), as an example. Below are some various categories in terms of character Relevance.

Major - This category includes characters who are extremely important in their franchise, thus important to the series. This can include Main protagonists, as well as some key villains.
Examples:


Semi-Major - A category a step below major. This includes characters that aren't high enough on the priority chart to land them in the major category, but not necessarily in the Minor category due to their popularity nevertheless. These often tend to be supporting characters.
Examples:


Recency - Characters that aren't necesarily as old as other fighters, but can end up becoming fighters due to their recency. They are often pulled in to represent a new franchise, or a new title in a franchise. This category is inbetween semi-major and minor due to the fact that they may not "necessarily" be minor characters in their franchise.

Examples:


Minor - These characters aren't as important in their series, often being in the roles of mooks, and side characters.


That about wraps it up. I will probably expand this section especially over time as I think of new ideas. Be sure to keep an eye on it!

BALLOT RULES
This new section will contain a couple of rules pertaining to the Ballot. The first one is based around a verified rule, and the second, is based around business logic. I will also list various campaign fighters afterwards, and how they hold up against the rules.

Spoiler

The first one, is a rule that has been verified for the Ballot, and is one of the few rules we know do exist for it..


1. The character has to have originated from a video game

That rule is arguably one of the most notable, and important. Infact, it was the only rule specified for the ballot. This rule basically feels like a safety net put up by Nintendo. They knew they would probably get a thousand troll characters, and get suggestions for non-video game characters, so they probably set this up.. lol.
So basically this rule means:

A. Characters who originated in anime/manga media aren't eligible. (Naruto, Goku, Ash Ketchum, Inuyasha, etc.)

B. Characters who originated in movies/animated movies aren't eligible. (Shrek, Wreck It Ralph, etc.)

C. Characters who originated in cartoons aren't eligible. (Spongebob, Mickey Mouse, etc.)

D. Any other characters who originated outside of gaming in general aren't eligible. (Storybook/book characters, Real people, etc.)


2. The character has to sell
Obviously, this wasn't "mentioned" as a rule, but it's definitely something that would be a key factor, no matter what.. as it would ultimately decide whether the character was worth the time or not. This, is arguably probably one of the main reasons the ballot was started to begin with..: So Nintendo could get an idea of what characters, were heavily popular, and which ones didn't receive votes at all. Sorta like a "which characters have profit potential" sort of thing.
So basically a few things flesh out from this rule:

A. The character must have a notablely large fanbase. (Again, this is based off of the "is the character profitable?" question. If a character has a large/decent fanbase, they would probably be more interested in the idea... luckily, the nature of the ballot in general helps with this aspect anyway, as the ones at the top will probably recieve the most attention.)

B. The character must work as a fighter. (Of course, even though this is fan service, the character still has to flesh out as a fighter. The reason for this, is simply this: No matter how much a character is requested in the ballot, if they don't play well, or work horribly as a fighter, that could affect their profit potential. Some "might" buy them just to have the character, though others might see that "this character sucks" aspect as a turn off.)



Points I consider detractions and not a valid rule

Now obviously, there are some points that have been brought up in other threads that would seem like good rules, but ultimately end up as simple biased detractions.. Some examples:

Rule?: If the character doesn't have a prominent following in Japan/If they aren't well known in Japan, their chances are low.

Is it a rule?: NO. This "rule", generally arises from the whole "Western vs. Eastern" argument. Considering how Japanese aren't the only consumers that player Super Smash Bros, this is of course a detraction, not a rule. If a character is prominent enough in the ballot, they WILL be considered, regardless of whether they are Eastern in origin, or Western in origin. Just because a character wouldn't sell as well in one area, doesn't mean it wouldn't sell like hot cakes in another area.. (like the United States.)


With all of that out of the way, now, lets look at some of the various popular candidates, and see how they match up. (Note: Obviously, you might notice that some future campaign additions to this thread will end up here first. If you see a new character here, chances are they will get in the notable campaign section soon.)

King K. Rool
Passes rule one?: Yes. He originated in Donkey Kong Country.
Rule two viability: Intense. K. Rool is a very popular suggestion in the ballot, and has a very large and prominent fanbase. There is no question that he would generate profit as DLC.

Bandana Waddle Dee
Passes rule one?: Yes. Originated in Kirby Super Star, and shot to stardom in Kirby's Return to Dreamland.
Rule two viability: Fairly High. He has a decent fanbase, and has been steadily rising in popularity in the ballot.

Isaac (Golden Sun)
Passes rule one?: Yes. Golden Sun..
Rule two viability: Moderate. Has a decent fanbase.

Rayman
Passes rule one?: Yes. Originated in Rayman
Rule two viability: Intense. Ray has been very popular in the ballot, and has a large fanbase.

Krystal
Passes rule one?: Yes. Originated in Starfox Adventures
Rule two viability: Moderate. She has a large fanbase, and a campaign that has been around since her introduction.

Shantae
Passes rule one?: Yes. Originated in the gameboy advance game, Shantae (2002)
Rule two viability: Moderately high. She has had a steadily growing campaign, and has a decent fanbase.

NOTABLE CAMPAIGNS

This section is going to contain a rundown of notable active campaigns here on Smashboards. It's far from a standard list though. It will contain information such as amount of supporters, a rundown of the character, links to various propaganda, etc.. Campaigns will be ordered from most pages to least pages. Think of this number as sorta for fun. Due to the nature of the forums, positioning may very well fluctuate depending on thread activity!

If you have a campaign you feel is a notable suggestion, feel free to mention it in the comments. It may end up here! ^_^

I will update this with a new campaign every once in awhile, so keep an eye out!

KING K. ROOL
Spoiler updated: 6/22/2015

Spoiler

Classification: Villain/Antagonist
Franchise: Donkey Kong

Rundown: King K. Rool is the leader of the Kremlings, and nemesis of Donkey Kong. For reasons unknown, the Kremling King constantly harrasses the Kongs of Donkey Kong Island, often attempting to steal the Kong's bananas in hopes of starving them. (Whether he does this to try to take over the Island, or just to be a jerk is beyond me.) He appeared frequently throughout the series, being prominent in every early Donkey Kong Country title, as well as appearing in DK64 and various spinoff titles. He has been absent in recent years, but many fans hope one day the Kremling King will make a comeback...

Smash talk: In terms of Smash, K. Rool is a force to be reckoned with. Having an extremely large campaign, a large fan following, and an impressive moveset pool, this Kroc is definite force in the Smash Ballot.

Combat potential: King K. Rool is a Kroc with a lot of tricks up his sleeves! Through out the titles he appeared in, he took on many personas. In his standard appearance, he could ram into opponents at high speed, and use his crown as a boomerang. He has also posed as a pirate, Frankenstein (calling himself "Baron K. Roolenstein"), and as a boxer. Due to this I can't even list all of his possible attacks! He is one adept Kremling.

Campaign link: Found here

Thread owner: BKupa666

Supporters: Overload (Too many for me to count... Check the supporters list in the thread and you'll see what I mean. If anyone can count up the current number of supporters for this campaign, please comment :/)

Thread pages: 778

Hashtag: #KrocTheVote

BANDANA WADDLE DEE
Spoiler updated: 6/22/2015

Spoiler

Classification: Protagonist/Anti Hero
Franchise: Kirby

Rundown: Bandana Waddle Dee is a spear wielding, bandana garbed waddle dee native to Dream land. He is a loyal servant to King DeDeDe, and good friend of Kirby. Debuting in Kirby Super Star as a minor character (facing Kirby in the Megaton Punch minigame), the little guy soon shot to stardom in more recent titles (becoming a playable character in multiplayer co-op for Kirby's Return to Dreamland), and soon cemented himself as an important ally in the series.

Smash talk: The Bandana Dee campaign is a growing, organized campaign. Detractors against the character will quickly find this little guy means business, and is far from just your common mook...

Combat potential: Don't let the fact the little guy is a Waddle Dee fool you into letting your guard down! He is very versatile with that spear of his. He can stab with it and throw it. He can also FLY with it by spinning it above his head like a helicopter.. (wonder who taught him that!?). Don't let up around this little guy, or you'll be Swiss cheese before you can say... well, Bandana Waddle Dee!

Campaign link: Found here

Thread owner: Chandelure

Propaganda:
Dee-L-C WordPress: https://bandanaballot.wordpress.com
Dee-L-C Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bwdssb4?fref=ts
Dee-L-C Twitter: https://twitter.com/BandanaDeeSm4sh

Hashtag: #BandanaBallot

Pages: 474

ISAAC
Spoiler updated: 6/23/2015

Spoiler

Classification: Protagonist
Franchise: Golden Sun

Rundown: Isaac is the silent hero of the Golden Sun series. Considered to be the most powerful Earth Adept in the series, He has many abilities, such as the use of his psyenergy (magic) and various swords and axes at his disposal. The character represents a critically-marveled and commercially successful RPG series. Isaac appeared as an assist trophy in brawl, and had a trophy as well. However, Golden Sun representation (Particularly the Isaac assist as well) suspiciously disappeared by the time Super Smash bros. for Wii U/3DS rolled around. I wonder what happened to the fellow?...

Smash talk: With a big fanbase, hefty moveset pool, and a decent campaign, Isaac holds a definite presence in the ballot.

Combat Potential: This kid has some sick moves! He is not only good with swords and axes, but he also has powerful earth psyenergy at his disposal! He can also teleport, and has some wicked summoning skills.

Campaign link: Found here

Thread owner: N3ON

Supporters: 271

Thread pages: 385

Hashtag: N/A

RAYMAN
Spoiler updated: 6/23/2015

Spoiler

Classification: Protagonist
Franchise: Rayman

Rundown: The main protagonist of the Rayman series, and mascot of Ubisoft. This limbless wonder is the hero of the Glade of Dreams. With a legacy spanning five wonderful titles (and a handful of spinoffs), this fellow protects and saves the residents of the Glade of Dreams almost on a regular basis! He did experience a few years of absence after the introduction of the Rabbids spinoffs (a fact fans disliked immensely..). Luckily Rayman, starting with Rayman origins in 2011-12, finally started to regain a foothold as a prominent videogame icon.

Smash talk: Don't let his cheerful personality and good sense of humor fool you. This limbless hero packs a punch, and is always up to a good challenge. Though fans have always wanted Rayman to join Smash, desire for this character skyrocketed after the fake Rayman leak created by Artsy Omni. Since then, Rayman has had a growing presence in the ballot. With a large fanbase, growing campaign, and an array of different moveset
possibilities, Rayman's chances of getting in Smash (unlike his limbs), are far from non-existent!

Combat potential: The fact he has no limbs means he has range normally impossible for your average fighter. His fists and kicks have long reach, and he is also capable of shooting energy balls! Did I mention he can also fly with his helicopter hair?.. He has also had access to laser-washing powders (Also known as "Laser Detergent SuperPowers". Weird name, I now XD). These allow Ray to use Lockjaws, Shock rockets, Heavy metal fists, and a number of other abilities. All this in mind, Rayman is a very adept fighter.

Campaign link: Found here

Thread owner: JamesDNaux

Supporters: 155

Thread pages: 280

Hashtag: N/A

KRYSTAL
Spoiler Updated: 6/24/2015

Spoiler

Classification: Secondary Protagonist
Franchise: Starfox

Rundown: Krystal is a vixen, whom was native to the planet Cerinia, outside the Lylat System. However, her planet was destroyed in an unknown disaster in which both of her parents died. She traveled to the lylat system seeking answers, and stumbled upon the planet Sauria, after recieving a distress signal during her search. However, in attempting to aid the planet, she was imprisoned in a crystalline cell, where she remained until Fox freed her. After the planet had been saved, Krystal eventually joined the Starfox team. Some rumor Fox has the hots for her.. I wonder if it's true?

Smash talk: Best not let your guard down around this vixen! Not only does she pack a sick moveset pool, but she also has a large fan following, and a decently large campaign. Her chances of getting in Smash are as clear as crystal! (...I am so sorry.)

Combat potential: Krystal is adept in combat. She does have access to the standard equipment Starfox uses, being a team member. However that's not all she has at her disposal. She also has a powerful staff, which not only works well in close combat, but also gives her a variety of potent magical attacks, ranging from fireballs, to trembling ground quakes! She also has a natural ability of telepathy.

Campaign link: Found here

Thread owner: IsmaR

Supporters: N/A

Thread pages: 224

Hashtag: N/A

SHANTAE
Spoiler Updated: 9/11/2015

Spoiler

Classification: Protagonist
Franchise: Shantae

Rundown: Shantae is a half-genie. Being the guardian of Scuttle Town, a fishing port town in Sequin land, she works tirelessly to protect the town, and it's citizens from danger. This of course includes the constant attacks, and evil plots of the nefarious pirate captain, Risky Boots. Though somewhat young, and naive, Shantae is modest, and persistent. She will go to great lengths to protect her home town and her friends.

Combat potential: Shantae may just seem like your average belly dancer, but don't be fooled! She is adept in combat, and is even capable of using her long hair as a whip (and boy does that thing HURT!). She knows some magic attacks, however, her main key ability, is her ability to transform into different animals and creatures using different dances. She can turn into a monkey, elephant, spider, harpy, and much more. She has even rocked some pirate gear at one point in her career. All of this said, don't let her innocent appearance fool you. She'll happily dance all over your face if you let your guard down!

Campaign link: Found here

Thread owner: 8-peacock-8

Supporters: N/A (Needs to be counted up.)

Thread pages: 151

Hashtag: N/A

Conclusion
All that said, thank you for taking the time to read through this thread. I hope that the information I have provided will help all users, both campaign runners, and supporters alike, be able to prevent the spread of unfounded hate and misinformation against various characters. Remember guys: This is a ballot. This is NOT a war. Be polite, and help keep things clean. Both on Smashboards, and around the internet as well.

If you have any tips you think would help prevent the spread of misinformation against characters, feel free to add it in the comments. If you are from any of the campaigns in the notable campaigns section, and you feel something is missing from your character's section, feel free to let me know in the comments! Thanks for reading!

In regards to the future of this thread: Even after the Fighter Ballot is over and done, this thread will be far from gone. Once the ballot is done I will re-purpose it into a thread for general research in Smash bros fighters. After all, newcomers do not simply end with the ballot. There will inevitably be more sequels after all... Such is the nature of our beloved Smash bros. I, of course, will be there to analyze away, just as I do today!

 

[udime123]

Wow, great to see the community is up to this stuff! Honestly, I'm rather fond of threads like these, we could stand for more of them.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Wow, great to see the community is up to this stuff! Honestly, I'm rather fond of threads like these, we could stand for more of them.

Heh thanks. The amount of hostility that has been thrown around lately is definitely getting out of hand. I speak of parrots from experience, as I myself, I must admit sadly, have been fooled into believing a lie against a character before(whom I won't name), due to one of these detractors. Thankfully one of the members of this board corrected my erroneous thinking. Even with that, I still felt ashamed that I had allowed myself to fall for such a terrible lie.. and nearly end up parroting it myself as well.

I really think some are missing the point of the ballot. It's supposed to get our input. Nintendo is asking for OUR input. This is supposed to be a fun ballot for dlc fighters.. not an all out flamewar between fandoms.

I figured if no one else would try to do something about it, I figured I might as well give it a shot myself. I don't want any one else to be fooled by lies, like I was a few months back.

 

[udime123]

Heh thanks. The amount of hostility that has been thrown around lately is definitely getting out of hand. I speak of parrots from experience, as I myself, I must admit sadly, have been fooled into believing a lie against a character before(whom I won't name), due to one of these detractors. Thankfully one of the members of this board corrected my erroneous thinking. Even with that, I still felt ashamed that I had allowed myself to fall for such a terrible lie.. and nearly end up parroting it myself as well.

I really think some are missing the point of the ballot. It's supposed to get our input. Nintendo is asking for OUR input. This is supposed to be a fun ballot for dlc fighters.. not an all out flamewar between fandoms.

I figured if no one else would try to do something about it, I figured I might as well give it a shot myself. I don't want any one else to be fooled by lies, like I was a few months back.

Yeah, people are treating this like some kind of World War with all their "Vote For This Guy" nonsense. Obviously, people have already decided who they want, so why should anyone try to convince people to join their "side"? I mean, I want Isaac, and anyone else I come across who support him are automatically respected by me, so maybe people should stop trying to extinguish everyone else's spark and just strengthen the bonds that they have with their fellow supporters. Honestly, this is a great opportunity for the community to get together, but instead it's created conflict. People should stand together because they like Smash, not flame against each other because they want someone else! But, honestly, ranting won't get me anywhere.

 

[Delzethin]

You make a lot of good points. Some kind of conflict was inevitable with how the ballot works, but...damn. The sheer vitriol that gets thrown around is uncalled for. Any advice that helps counteract it is a huge help.

Also helps that the vast majority of detractors are more bark than bite. Heh.

Are you planning on covering more topics? Lately, I've been wondering how to start a campaign from the ground up...

 

[Aetheri]

The most annoying detractors are the ones that start ignoring your counter-arguments and facts and saying it doesn't count...Well if I'm going to go ahead and ignore the facts then SURE IT DOESN'T COUNT! But the facts are still there and they most certainly still count...(Ridley detractors are bad for this btw)

 

[Manic Rykker]

The most annoying detractors are the ones that start ignoring your counter-arguments and facts and saying it doesn't count...Well if I'm going to go ahead and ignore the facts then SURE IT DOESN'T COUNT! But the facts are still there and they most certainly still count...(Ridley detractors are bad for this btw)

While it can be annoying when detractors ignore what you're saying, as I stated in the OP, focusing on the detractor themself isn't necessarily the goal.

Even though they are being thick headed, a lot of other people who run up on the fights (usually) won't be. Under normal circumstances they would have just seen what the detractor is saying, and make a judgement from that. (That is where the parrots usually come from.)

However, if there is at least a voice of reason countering the detractor, whether the detractor him/herself deals with it or not, the counters are still "there", and most people will be able to tell they are just spouting smoke, and trying to dumb down that particular character (which is what they all try to do.) So really, it doesn't really matter if the detractor is swayed or not (And hey, sometimes that CAN happen, believe it or not. I've had some that have burnt out and gone neutral after their points have been taken out. Whether they were parrots or not, it is still nice to see when you do turn a detractor around.)

You make a lot of good points. Some kind of conflict was inevitable with how the ballot works, but...damn. The sheer vitriol that gets thrown around is uncalled for. Any advice that helps counteract it is a huge help.

Also helps that the vast majority of detractors are more bark than bite. Heh.

Are you planning on covering more topics? Lately, I've been wondering how to start a campaign from the ground up...

Covering more topics? But of course! Last night I was fairly tired, and was mostly trying to get the thread kick-started mostly. This is a help thread, so a tutorial on how to set up a campaign thread could help. It can especially be tricky for users when their character has had a support thread before, which has died/been locked. I'm pretty sure users have to get help from a moderator when that event occurs of course.

UPDATE: Fixed up the op a bit. I will be placing those long sections into their own spoilers, to help keep the OP clean. I am currently in the process of preparing the campaign tutorial, so check back later!

UPDATE2: The tutorial is now up

edit: Oh by the way. To the campaigns out there that support characters that are "already in the game" as assist trophies.. there is one counter to that common, and overly stupid argument detractors like to make.

- It could be possible for them to just make the assist trophy for the fighter have a 0% of appearing in the stage while the character is being controlled. It's sorta like how Toon link can't appear conducting the train in the spirit tracks stage While he is fighting, as an example.

I say this as I see a lot of detractors use that argument, and to be honest, it is very pathetic. All it is is just fear of stolen slots, as I mentioned. They just want people to "count them out", and not try to vote for them. This is a ballot, and as they stated, ALL videogame characters are eligible. It doesn't say "All videogame characters are eligible, except for assist trophies..." This point has also been added to the OP as well.

 

[Arcadenik]

If an unpopular character is confirmed, the supporters reserve the right to have an "I was wrong" thread to call out the detractors.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Generally, for me when I was a kid one of the favorite things I liked about Smash was this: What new faces am I going to see in this installment? For me it was all about the surprise as well as the gameplay. The OMG <insert character here> IS IN THE GAME NOW TOO?! moments. I always looked forward to seeing what the devs had instore each release.

Now, I feel like that surprise has been sorta downplayed. It has all turned into a fandom war, with everyone wanting a certain character in, and RIDICULING anyone else who thought otherwise, and who wanted some other character in. This mindset is very contagious, and I will admit, during my early Smashboards days (which isn't that long ago but still XD), I had gotten carried away before by that mindset... heck, I've completely plowed someone into the ground before over a character concept I thought was TERRIBLE.. (and to that user, and you know who you are.. again, I am sorry..) I was pretty much like everyone else. I could barely fathom that character getting into the game. I felt almost as if it would steal away the only opportunity for some characters to get in..

Over time, seeing all of the amazing campaigns soon changed my viewpoint on everything. Before I knew it, I was suddenly supporting 2 characters.. then 3... then 4. Eventually, I became rather neutral.. and that neutrality allowed me to come to a realization..

The point of the ballot has been lost. The ballot was supposed to get fan input on what we would like to see as fighters.. It was supposed to be a fun way to get the community involved, and get us talking. However, instead, we have taken it to heart, and gone into all out wars for our favorite videogame characters... Before this opportunity, character campaigns were nothing more than wishful thinking. They had no possible effect on the roster, and were more or less just fanbases surrounding those characters. I mean they still are in a way... However, since the introduction of the ballot, that has shifted. There is suddenly this sense of possibility. This sense of "our favorite character could ACTUALLY be in SUPER SMASH BROS...and we can actually AFFECT the decision.." While this should have been a good thing, it has ended up turning for the worse... Detractors are more aggressive now with that mindset that there is control. That simple possibility, that simple "what if" has driven everyone over the edge.

Why is it we have this mindset that there is only room on the battlefield for a select few?

and that others are too big..

too obscure..

or don't deserve to be in, just because they just so happen to be third party, or indie?

I personally, with how many of us have acted, will be surprised if Nintendo ever considers a smash ballot as a possibility again in the future.

Rather than trying to downplay each other out of "fear of stolen slots", campaigns should instead be focusing on strengthening themselves, rather than tearing apart the competition... This is why, I decided to ultimately devise methods and tips on how to deal with detractors. Not by downplaying the competition.. but rather through deflecting the arguments themselves, and prevent that tarnishing that occurs on the character.

 

[Wintropy]

Great stuff! I look forward to seeing more of this in the future, and good luck with your future endeavours~

If an unpopular character is confirmed, the supporters reserve the right to have an "I was wrong" thread to call out the detractors.

Not really. Kinda makes you look petty and insecure.

That said, you're very welcome to create the thread, but don't expect people to wander in and go on about how wrong they were. Rubbing it in people's faces and saying "I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG NEENER NEENER NEENER~" is just as obnoxious and unnecessary as hounding that character's supporters in the first instance.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Great stuff! I look forward to seeing more of this in the future, and good luck with your future endeavours~



Not really. Kinda makes you look petty and insecure.

That said, you're very welcome to create the thread, but don't expect people to wander in and go on about how wrong they were. Rubbing it in people's faces and saying "I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG NEENER NEENER NEENER~" is just as obnoxious and unnecessary as hounding that character's supporters in the first instance.

Yep. There is no need for that sort of thing. No need for salt people XD.

Anyway, to be honest, if I really wanted to get someone's undies in a bunch, I'd just link em to this:

Most. Obnoxious track. In the history of gaming... XD

Anywho.. If ANYONE has any suggestions on what could be added to the OP, please feel free to throw em here. I want the thread to be a good place to help all campaigns, and help provide needed tips.

 

[Delzethin]

Not really. Kinda makes you look petty and insecure.

That said, you're very welcome to create the thread, but don't expect people to wander in and go on about how wrong they were. Rubbing it in people's faces and saying "I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG NEENER NEENER NEENER~" is just as obnoxious and unnecessary as hounding that character's supporters in the first instance.

I never got that, to be honest. Sure, it might feel good for a little while, but if all I did was rub it in the faces of the doubters, all I'd be doing is looking like an ass.

When Robin got revealed, I wasn't interested in pointing and laughing at the detractors. I was more busy reading all the comments that went "OH MY GOD ROBIN LOOKS AMAZING".

I wasn't looking for salt. I was looking for vindication.

 

[Koopaul]

I think if people have a rational explanation for why a character won't/shouldn't get in and presents it in a polite way, they should be able to speak.

You act as if everyone who doesn't see a character as right for the game as some sort of jerk with no reasonable arguments.

 

[Burruni]

I think if people have a rational explanation for why a character won't/shouldn't get in and presents it in a polite way, they should be able to speak.

You act as if everyone who doesn't see a character as right for the game as some sort of jerk with no reasonable arguments.

Many detractors are not as reasonable. The explosion over Young Link in yesterday's RTC shows the good and the bad of them. Poor Blue was the only real vocal supporter helping defend him. The logic kinda goes that you wouldn't need tips on how to deal with a sophisticated detractor.

 

[Arcadenik]

I never got that, to be honest. Sure, it might feel good for a little while, but if all I did was rub it in the faces of the doubters, all I'd be doing is looking like an ***.

When Robin got revealed, I wasn't interested in pointing and laughing at the detractors. I was more busy reading all the comments that went "OH MY GOD ROBIN LOOKS AMAZING".

I wasn't looking for salt. I was looking for vindication.

Vindication tastes buttery and salty.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I haven't been really rallying support for Agnes Oblige even though I've done everything in my power to advertise it, got the Leaks group and Shulk done but barely anyone is going to the support thread.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I haven't been really rallying support for Agnes Oblige even though I've done everything in my power to advertise it, got the Leaks group and Shulk done but barely anyone is going to the support thread.

because Edea is better

In seriousness im not starting support until I finish the game. And because Agnes is my least favorite of the 4 . . .

 

[YoshiandToad]

Honestly I feel like we could of done with this thread almost two years ago. During early Smash reveals the "drinking the tears of (deconfirmed character here)" meme was in full effect.

Having lived through that nonsense, I can honestly say "fan wars" have been a lot less obnoxious since Smash 4's initial release. Even at it's worse right now, it's no where near as bad as around Jan 2014. Volatile.

 

[Manic Rykker]

I think if people have a rational explanation for why a character won't/shouldn't get in and presents it in a polite way, they should be able to speak.

You act as if everyone who doesn't see a character as right for the game as some sort of jerk with no reasonable arguments.

It's not those that have rational explanations that are the problem. It's those that deliberately go out of their way to BASH a character.. It's one thing when you give solid arguments. It's another thing when you pull garbage out of your rear just to make the competition not look as good as your own campaign..

Considering how there is always parrots reading through stuff that will end up taking that false information they come up with as fact... that can reflect badly on a character, not just smash wise, but on the franchise as a whole.

As for the rational detractors... if they have a right to speak, don't those that have "rational" counters and facts that shut down those arguments have a right to retort as well?... This should NOT be a one sided ordeal.

I myself will not sit by while lies get spread around. It's getting ridiculous, and it has to stop.

I think it stems from a few things..

- They just hate the character
- They are afraid the character could "steal the slot" of another character.


In reality, there isn't technically any true "valid" reasons why one character shouldn't be in Smash over another. As they stated, ANY videogame character is eligible for this ballot. The only real reason people usually take the time to make these arguments is a fear that they could somehow "steal the slot" of their own character. There is also those that just hate that character with a passion. It's true too.. I've seen some users explicitly state, and I kid you not.. "<Insert character> is in it?... I'm gonna skip out on this one." There have been some that apparently hate that character so much, that it actually affects their decision on if they want the game or not.. and its absolutely ridiculous. Sure, there may be "some" that are polite... but many of the others take it to heart, and go into all out wars. If you don't agree with them they bite your head off.

In this thread, I'm merely giving attacked campaign threads, and future campaign threads a tool so they can actually fight back. I say if someone comes into their support thread just to express their hatred for that character, and their "opinions" why that character shouldn't be in... then the supporters in that thread should be able to fight back.

This also applies to other sites as well.

 

[Delzethin]

It's not those that have rational explanations that are the problem. It's those that deliberately go out of their way to BASH a character.. It's one thing when you give solid arguments. It's another thing when you pull garbage out of your rear just to make the competition not look as good as your own campaign..

Considering how there is always parrots reading through stuff that will end up taking that false information they come up with as fact... that can reflect badly on a character, not just smash wise, but on the franchise as a whole.

As for the rational detractors... if they have a right to speak, don't those that have "rational" counters and facts that shut down those arguments have a right to retort as well?... This should NOT be a one sided ordeal.

That's a key point. If someone is questioning a character you support and they're being rational and civil about it, they're not a detractor, they're a skeptic. Skeptics are just as worth debating with, though, since whereas with detractors you can only sway anyone who stumbles across the argument, you can actually win a skeptic over.

 

[Manic Rykker]

That's a key point. If someone is questioning a character you support and they're being rational and civil about it, they're not a detractor, they're a skeptic. Skeptics are just as worth debating with, though, since whereas with detractors you can only sway anyone who stumbles across the argument, you can actually win a skeptic over.

Hmm.. that is definitely something worth mentioning in the OP too... Thanks!

Edit: Skeptics added in the detractor section

Edit 2: Saw a cool comic relevant to the thread that cropped up over in the Bandana Dee campaign thread.

 

[ChikoLad]

Even at it's worse right now, it's no where near as bad as around Jan 2014. Volatile.

I can vouch for that, since that was when I joined this site, ironically.

 

[Manic Rykker]

I can vouch for that, since that was when I joined this site, ironically.

I will definitely say I really got lucky myself. I just so happened to join the site waaaaayy after the salt wars were over and done and the game was out. Just thinking about some of the insults thrown around really annoys me though... People could get so salty back then.

 

[ChikoLad]

I will definitely say I really got lucky myself. I just so happened to join the site waaaaayy after the salt wars were over and done and the game was out. Just thinking about some of the insults thrown around really annoys me though... People could get so salty back then.

I joined soon after Rosalina was confirmed, and the reception to that on Smashboards was mixed. People either loved or hated the addition, there really was no inbetween at the time. In particular, more rabid fans of other Mario characters, such as Bowser Jr (who obviously was not known to be in the game at the time) were very hostile towards those in the Rosalina boards at the time.

And in general, a lot of hardcore roster speculators didn't suspect her inclusion for some reason, and they got salty over that. I've noticed that people get salty when a character they didn't expect gets in when they invest so much time into roster speculation, which is a real shame.

 

[Manic Rykker]

I joined soon after Rosalina was confirmed, and the reception to that on Smashboards was mixed. People either loved or hated the addition, there really was no inbetween at the time. In particular, more rabid fans of other Mario characters, such as Bowser Jr (who obviously was not known to be in the game at the time) were very hostile towards those in the Rosalina boards at the time.

And in general, a lot of hardcore roster speculators didn't suspect her inclusion for some reason, and they got salty over that. I've noticed that people get salty when a character they didn't expect gets in when they invest so much time into roster speculation, which is a real shame.

Whats even more sad, Rosalina actually makes a TON of sense when you think about it.. I mean she has been prominent in A LOT of titles lately.. I'd say probably on the same lines as Bowser Jr. (Which is probably why he also ended up as a rep.. and the Koopalings in a technical sense)

They are prevalent characters in their franchise, thus it would make sense for them to be in.

In a sense, it isn't really about the numbers. it's about who can represent their franchise well, and most of the characters on the roster do that job.

When you think about it... has it ever actually been stated on if there is actually a barrier on how many reps per franchise there can be?.. I don't think so now that I think of it. When you think about it that is probably another fan generated rule to try to prevent stolen slots because of franchises "getting too many reps"... and we know the stolen slots thing is just fan paranoia.. Really, if a character represents their franchise well, why should it matter if that franchise has an extra rep or two?..

Heck it has always been like that in a sense. There never has really been any rule on how many reps a franchise can get. It's all just wishful thinking on the fans part that their favorite franchise won't get "short changed".

(And sometimes it feels like that does happen.. :/)

 

[ChikoLad]

Whats even more sad, Rosalina actually makes a TON of sense when you think about it.. I mean she has been prominent in A LOT of titles lately.. I'd say probably on the same lines as Bowser Jr. (Which is probably why he also ended up as a rep.. and the Koopalings in a technical sense)

They are prevalent characters in their franchise, thus it would make sense for them to be in.

In a sense, it isn't really about the numbers. it's about who can represent their franchise well, and most of the characters on the roster do that job.

When you think about it... has it ever actually been stated on if there is actually a barrier on how many reps per franchise there can be?.. I don't think so now that I think of it. When you think about it that is probably another fan generated rule to try to prevent stolen slots because of franchises "getting too many reps"... and we know the stolen slots thing is just fan paranoia.. Really, if a character represents their franchise well, why should it matter if that franchise has an extra rep or two?..

While Sakurai has not said anything about the background for Rosalina's inclusion (the only Smash 4 newcomer he has not done this for yet), she is basically the only new addition to the main cast of Mario protagonists since the original Super Mario Bros, and she is supposed to stick around moving forward, and the team over at Nintendo EAD Tokyo (the team who make the main Mario games right now) have a strong love for the character, and they've also noted that's she incredibly popular in the Mario fanbase. So her inclusion only makes sense, especially since she is the poster child and one of the most memorable elements of two of the most critically acclaimed games of all time. Also, that Q&A with Sakurai that was recently posted on the front page had two questions that Sakurai gave answers to that I think may have influenced Rosalina's inclusion - Sakurai apparently dreams of going to space, and Rosalina is the personification of space. He also said that if he were to have any super power, it would be the ability to create clones of himself to get more work done - Rosalina's playstyle in Smash kinda represents that, due to the inter-play with her Lumas.

Bowser Jr and the Koopalings are here to represent the NSMB series more than anything, which makes sense, as that's been a smash hit for Nintendo, and even the most casual Nintendo fans are bound to have an idea of who they are, since NSMB is really popular with the casual Nintendo audience.

Regarding a barrier to how many reps a franchise can have, there is nothing concrete there, but Sakurai has been known to show restraint with Kirby at least, like he doesn't want to over-represent that franchise. It's part of why Dedede and Meta Knight did not make it into Melee.

 

[Manic Rykker]

While Sakurai has not said anything about the background for Rosalina's inclusion (the only Smash 4 newcomer he has not done this for yet), she is basically the only new addition to the main cast of Mario protagonists since the original Super Mario Bros, and she is supposed to stick around moving forward, and the team over at Nintendo EAD Tokyo (the team who make the main Mario games right now) have a strong love for the character, and they've also noted that's she incredibly popular in the Mario fanbase. So her inclusion only makes sense, especially since she is the poster child and one of the most memorable elements of two of the most critically acclaimed games of all time. Also, that Q&A with Sakurai that was recently posted on the front page had two questions that Sakurai gave answers to that I think may have influenced Rosalina's inclusion - Sakurai apparently dreams of going to space, and Rosalina is the personification of space. He also said that if he were to have any super power, it would be the ability to create clones of himself to get more work done - Rosalina's playstyle in Smash kinda represents that, due to the inter-play with her Lumas.

Bowser Jr and the Koopalings are here to represent the NSMB series more than anything, which makes sense, as that's been a smash hit for Nintendo, and even the most casual Nintendo fans are bound to have an idea of who they are, since NSMB is really popular with the casual Nintendo audience.

Regarding a barrier to how many reps a franchise can have, there is nothing concrete there, but Sakurai has been known to show restraint with Kirby at least, like he doesn't want to over-represent that franchise. It's part of why Dedede and Meta Knight did not make it into Melee.

That right there is also why I am surprised at Bandana Dee not being in Smash four actually... I mean I get that from Sakurai, but four characters doesn't seem all that bad when there are franchises that have much larger lineups. Trying to say Kirby is a small franchise is foolish thinking as well.

Bandana Dee has been very prevalent in recent Kirby titles, and pretty much been a staple in multiplayer coop modes. I was seriously surprised when he ended up not showing up... I was honestly out of all of my own predictions really solid on expecting the little guy...

 

[ChikoLad]

Well, from his point of view, he probably doesn't want people to think he's trying to celebrate his own franchises and games too much. He gets enough flak over Uprising content in Smash 4 as is.

Bandanna Dee could be DLC though. You never know.

 

[Burruni]

Well, from his point of view, he probably doesn't want people to think he's trying to celebrate his own franchises and games too much. He gets enough flak over Uprising content in Smash 4 as is.

Bandanna Dee could be DLC though. You never know.

Kirby is no longer Sakurai's franchise.

Bandana Dee in fact is associated to the biggest successes of the post-sakurai Kirby.

 

[ChikoLad]

Kirby is no longer Sakurai's franchise.

Bandana Dee in fact embodies the biggest successes of the post-sakurai Kirby.

He doesn't make the games anymore, but that doesn't change the fact he was the original creator of the franchise. People will still easily interpret bias from him if he overdoses on Kirby stuff. I don't think he is even close to doing that, but Sakurai himself is going to have a much more cautious mindset about it than we are, since it's him that gets the flak from "fans" in the end.

And I wouldn't say the latter is true at all. Kirby himself represents the post-Sakurai success of Kirby, as he's ultimately the character casuals recognise. Bandanna Dee is just a character from the series that fans of the series seem to like. That warrants his inclusion enough. No need to tack on a tall claim for him that isn't there, especially since you can play through modern Kirby games and barely see Bandanna Dee depending on how you play.

 

[Delzethin]

When you think about it... has it ever actually been stated on if there is actually a barrier on how many reps per franchise there can be?.. I don't think so now that I think of it. When you think about it that is probably another fan generated rule to try to prevent stolen slots because of franchises "getting too many reps"... and we know the stolen slots thing is just fan paranoia.. Really, if a character represents their franchise well, why should it matter if that franchise has an extra rep or two?..

Heck it has always been like that in a sense. There never has really been any rule on how many reps a franchise can get. It's all just wishful thinking on the fans part that their favorite franchise won't get "short changed".

That's the thing: there hasn't. All this talk of reps and how many a series "should" have? All hearsay. While there's generally an association between how big a series is and how many of its characters get into Smash, it's not as cut and dry as a lot of the fanbase thinks. There're other factors that are still important, the least of which is how interesting of an addition a character could make.

More often than not, though, I see the more diehard fans of a character use it as a way to claim their character "deserves a spot" and some other character from a different series is "undeserving". It's faulty logic, but when it's loud enough it gets a pass from the less informed fans.

 

[ChikoLad]

My general opinion is that character driven franchises like Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and Fire Emblem should have the most reps. Meanwhile, something like Metroid is fine enough with just Samus since isolation is a strong theme of the Metroid games, so it's fitting this would carry into Smash.

 

[Manic Rykker]

That's the thing: there hasn't. All this talk of reps and how many a series "should" have? All hearsay. While there's generally an association between how big a series is and how many of its characters get into Smash, it's not as cut and dry as a lot of the fanbase thinks. There're other factors that are still important, the least of which is how interesting of an addition a character could make.

More often than not, though, I see the more diehard fans of a character use it as a way to claim their character "deserves a spot" and some other character from a different series is "undeserving". It's faulty logic, but when it's loud enough it gets a pass from the less informed fans.

Whats sad is there is a name for that too: "Leverage". In a way the fanbases sorta use the rep thing to keep things in their own favor.. Which is definitely faulty.

My general opinion is that character driven franchises like Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and Fire Emblem should have the most reps. Meanwhile, something like Metroid is fine enough with just Samus since isolation is a strong theme of the Metroid games, so it's fitting this would carry into Smash.

Reply to the above comment in spoilers below..:

Spoiler

The issue with metroid is it feels like for many people that it was sorta ignored... I mean it, like the Zelda franchise got mostly a transformation split, and it was left at that... (I mean considering Ganondorf STILL ended up a staying falcondorf, something is definitely up there.. lol)

Here is my take on things:

I just find it really hard to look at the Metroid side of things when there is such a small line up... and both technically of the SAME character at that... (Sure they play differently but they are both still Samus.. if you can understand what I mean by this)

While it is true that isolation is always a thing in Metroid, it isn't "complete" isolation. It would after all be no fun without a threat of some sort. Which is why there are always enemies to fight, small, medium or large. There is always things getting in the hunter's way after all lol XD. While some of them being too minor to serve any higher purpose than a hazard, others have better potential.

Space Pirates: Though often of just grunt status, they do have a lot up their sleeves (do they even have sleeves?) thanks to their different incarnations throughout the series... beam sword things, different variations of blasters... heck there are even flying variants. Heck want a final smash? Just go the giga route and turn em into an Omega Pirate. lol. Decent movepool, prominent in the series.

Ridley: Ignoring the detractions, the reasoning for him is obvious.. Ridley "is" Samus' arch nemesis. Once again he has changed a lot through the series as well.. and has an awesome movepool

Heck even if neither of those, there are still other options.. One of the hunters from the prime series, (Like the suggested Sylux or Rundas) or heck, even a metroid could work IF it were in one of the older stages.. (It's final smash could be turning into a QUEEN metroid..)

This is really the point. It feels like the series is ignored with so many possibilities that can be taken into account.. I mean you have to admit it would be cool to square off with one of Samus' old foes.. or in some cases beating her up with one of her foes XD

I mean lets also consider that they pretty much DID consider trying to get the series a new rep.. from what I recall Sakurai's team did try to make Ridley work, however they just had a lot of issues with him. Sakurai felt like if he shrunk him down it would take away from the character.. or something like that I suppose.

UPDATE: A character analysis section will be coming to the thread soon! This will work a bit differently than the previous sections in the thread:

This section will provide a logical run down on things to consider when setting up a support for a new fighter. It will probably be a bit longer and more in depth than previous sections (possibly), but either way, keep an eye out!

Edit: The section is now live.

UPDATE2: A Notable Campaigns section has been added to the OP. This section will contain useful information about many of the prominent campaigns here on Smashboards, unlike standard lists. It will contain a rundown of the character being campaigned, a list of the campaign's supporters, the Creator/Owner of the thread, propaganda links, etc. Keep an eye on this section, as I will update it over time. Check the section itself for more details.

Notable campaigns update 6/22/2015: Added King K. Rool, and Bandana Waddle Dee
6/23/2014: Added Isaac and Rayman
6/24/2015: Added Krystal

Edit 2, 7/22/15: Have a bit of bad news... I unfortunately am going to be taking a breather from this thread, as well as my icon thread. The issue is mainly a hardware issue, as my laptop is on it's last legs. I hope to pick back up on this thread especially soon, and continue to expand it to help everyone. Until then, see ya on the flip side.

Edit 3, 9/11/15: Added a "Ballot Rules" section
Added Shantae

 

[Manic Rykker]

Sorry about this double post, but I feel this is needed, since this will "technically" be the last post I make in this particular version of this to be outdated thread..:

UPDATE

This thread has been migrated to a new location! Due to the announcement that the character discussion forums would be closed, I decided it would be best to have it moved, for the sake of this thread's longevity.

This thread's new home can be found in the group A Distant Demon created. (The group is here)

The link to the relocated help thread is HERE


If you want to see what my future plans are for the new help thread, check the bottom of the new thread when you get the chance.

Either way, see ya in the new thread.