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Make Your Move 17: Next contest begins March the 24th; get your Iron MYM'er 1st day sets ready!

Bionichute

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,151
Kamen Rider Accel



Kamen Rider Accel, AKA Ryu Terui, is a police officer who's family was killed by a monster. Seeking revenge, he encounters a mysterious woman named Shroud, who gives him the equipment to become Kamen Rider Accel. Ryu joins the Fuuto City police, and encounters Kamen Rider Double and a monster he assumes killed his family. However, the monster is not the same one, and he soon befriends Double, the two becoming an unstopable team.

Stats
Weight - 7
Size - 7
Ground Speed - 9
Air Speed - 5
Fall Speed - 10

Specials
Down Special - Engine Change
Accel pulls up his giant sword, the Engine Blade, and subsequently pulls out a small, USB stick like device a Gaia Memory, which causes a voice to yell out "ENGINE!". Accel places the Memory into the sword, causing the same voice to yell out either "STEAM!", "JET!" or "ELECTRIC!". These are important, but we'll get to them in a second.
The starting animation is fairly laggy, but using it for the rest of the match will cause Accel to take out the Memory, and then quickly place it back in. The overall result is incredibly fast, as you will be able to start moving before the voice even yells out.

And yes, this is technically a form changing move, with multiple repeated uses shifting which engine type you're using, in the order stated above. However, the use of the forms can't really be shown here since it affects basically every move. We'll get into specifics with each move.

Also, holding the Special button will cause Accel to remove it completely.


Neutral Special - A-Slasher

Accel thrusts the Engine Blade forward, firing off a large, A-shaped projectile made out of red energy, which flies in a slightly downward path, until it hits the ground and explodes into a burst of flame. The projectile is incredibly fast, moving at about, well, Accel's speed, meaning it won't stay around long, but it will also be harder for opponents to avoid, as it is a fairly large hitbox, and the explosion itself is also an even larger hitbox, both of which cause 12% damage, with decent knockback. The Engine Blade itself is also a hitbox, with the thrust acting as a short attack, which causes 8% damage, and some slightly good knockback to it, but nothing really that special.

The A-Slasher is also affected by the Engine Memory. The Steam Engine is fairly simply, causing the blast to travel even faster than before, at the exchange of the explosion being replaced by a large windbox that cause even better knockback, but only causes 6% damage. The A-Slasher itself still causes 12% on contact however, but still creates the windbox. The A during this attack is colored a light grey.

The Jet Engine is also fairly simple, as it halves the A-Slasher's speed, but causes it to grow to x3 it's original size, covering it with flames and boosting the damage to 18%, but it's slower speed makes it easier to dodge as well, and it travels a shorter distance due to it's increased size as well. The explosion, however, is also x3 as big as the normal explosion, making it harder to dodge.

The Electric Engine version causes the A-Slasher to turn a dark green, and, while making the blast slightly slower, for balancing reasons, gives it the ability to stun the opponent, dealing 8% damage, and leaving the opponent stunned for about a half second, giving Accel a chance to use his super speed to attack the hindered opponent


Side Special - Bike Form

Accel flips into the air, turning into a bike. The bike form is about the size of Wario's bike, obviously, but it handles a lot different. For one, you can actually stop it by pressing down, which will cause Accel to enter a neutral pose, which you can exit out of by pressing either direction, which makes you continue moving. Accel's bike mode also does not hurt opponents, as it simply phases through them like most characters do while moving through each other. Pressing the standard attack button while in this form will cause Accel to dash forward a shirt distance, acting a quick hitbox that causes 5% damage.

This by itself isn't impressive, but holding down the button for a full second, you can still move around while doing this, will cause Accel to perform the Bike Engine Dasher. This causes Accel to dash forward 2 SBB, causing 14% damage to hit opponents, and launches them upward.

This is affected by the Engine Memory as well, as it's name suggests. The Steam Engine reduces the charge time by half, and adds an extra SBB to the distance, thanks to a boost of steam behind Accel, at the risk of lowering the damage to 7%, and decreasing the knockback a bit.

The Jet Engine leaves a trail of flame behind Accel as he dashes forward. The flame is not a solid object, and causes 1% damage every 4th of a second an opponent stands in it. The move retains its speed, and even gets it's damage to 17%, but it now takes 2 seconds to charge, due to the heat needed.

The Electric Engine affects Bike Form as a whole, allowing Accel to move even faster, but the Bike Engine Dasher now remains the same, aside from it stunning opponents instead of launching them.

Finally, to exit Bike Form, you can either jump, which will cause Accel to shift back into his normal form, or you can press the Special button, which will cause Accel to flip out of his Bike Form, and perform an aerial strike with his Engine Blade, where he swings it downward into the ground. This move can cover a variety of distances depending on how fast you're going, with barely an distance covered if used while still, and upwards of 2 SBB covered if going at full speed. It has a fairly small hitbox for such a large jump, but hitting with it is worth it, as despite it doing only 8% damage, it has very good knockback, and can easily work as a KO move. This is amplified with the Electric Engine, as the stun for it lasts just long enough to turn around and perform this strike. The ending has a bit of lag to it however.


Up Special - Accel Glanzer

Accel catches fire, causing a voice to yell "MAXIMUM DRIVE!", and then launches upwards, then performing an aerial roundhouse kick that shoots him downwards. The jump takes him up about as far as Mario's Super Jump Punch, but the spike in the downward diagonal angle is incredibly fast. It starts out without a hitbox, but halfway to the ground, Accel performs the roundhouse kick, which is incredibly quick. If the roundhouse hits the opponent, it will cause 15% damage, with some great knockback. It also creates a red circle around Accel and the opponent, which has a tire pattern on it.

The Steam Engine replaces the flames with bursts of steam, and causes Accel to jump much higher, but the damage of the kick only causes 8% damage, with incredibly decreased knockback. Like the A-Slasher, the circle around the kick turns a light grey.

The Jet Engine causes the fire to become more intense, but lowers the jump's distance, and causes the kick to travel at a more vertical angle than the diagonal angle it regularly is, and increases the damage to 20%, but also lowers the kick's speed as well.

The Electric Engine doesn't change the jump itself, but instead causes the kick to start earlier, basically immediately as the decline starts, where it turns into a series of roundhouse kicks until Accel hits the ground. The kick's travel speed is also increased, and the kick now stuns opponents for a moment instead of launching them. The circle is also changed to a dark green.

Standards
Jab - Engine Blade Combo

Accel performs a fairly basic 3-hit sword combo, similar to Marth's. The first hit is a simple side slash that causes 4% damage, the second hit is a downward slice that causes another 4%, and the final hit is a diagonal cut that causes Accel to move forward slightly, and deals 5% damage, totaling up to 13% damage on a full string.

The Steam Engine version causes the move to have a bit of extra knockback at the end of it, due to a burst of steam firing forward at the end. The Jet Engine version is a bit slower, but increases each hit's damage output by 1%. The Electric Engine version speeds up the already fairly fast move, and moves Accel forward slightly more than normal, but decreases damage output by 1%.


Forward Tilt - Accel Thrust

Accel, in a somewhat laggy move, pulls back his sword, and then thrusts it forwards, in a fairly brutal stabbing animation. Said brutality fits with the attack, as it causes 10% damage, and some good knockback for a standard. It does have both laggy starting and ending animations however, which lead to it's downside of being fairly easy to avoid.

The Steam Engine version of the stab is fairly simple, as it keeps all it's properties, but as soon as the attack's hitbox appears, a large windbox appears directly in front of Accel that helps pus opponents away, and adds to the knockback if the attack hits. The Jet Engine version causes a burst of fire to appear from the sword, replacing the normal hitbox, which has increased knockback, but not increased damage. The burst and windbox are around the same size, and cone like in shape.

The Electric Engine version is very different from the other two, as it instead causes a bolt of green electricity to fire from the Engine Blade, forming a projectile. The projectile is incredibly quick, about the size of a ray gun's blast, causes 5% damage, and also stuns opponents for a brief moment.


Up Tilt - Engine Uppercut

Accel performs a rather basic upwards strike with his sword. Like most of these kind of attacks, it's swift, and has good launching power. It causes 8% damage, and is perfect for starting an aerial combo, not much more to it than that.

It's Steam Engine variant cuts the damage down to 6%, but launches Accel upwards with a burst of steam below him, along with his opponent, making it even better for aerial combat. The Jet Engine increases knockback with the help of a burst of flame from the sword, but slows down the attack as well. The Electric Engine's effect is fairly unique, as hitting them with the attack will cause the normal about of upwards knockback, and at the height of it, stun the opponent in midair, leaving them open for a moment.


Down Tilt - Accel Stab

Accel lifts his sword, and turns it so that it's facing downwards, before stabbing it into the ground in a fast motion. This causes a small pulse, which acts as a hitbox that causes 7% damage, and also causes a brief tripping effect for anyone hit by it.

The Steam Engine variant instead creates a windbox on the ground, which instead pushes back whoever is hit by the pulse. The Jet Engine version creates a burst of flame, which increases the knockback and range of the attack. The Electric Engine version simply replaces the tripping effect with a slightly longer stun effect.


Dash Attack - Blade Spin

While dashing, Accel sticks out his sword, and begins spinning around incredibly quickly for a brief moment, becoming a moving hitbox. Due to Accel's size, and due to him sticking the blade out all the way, this actually has a lot of range for a dash, especially when you consider his speed already. The attack can actually hit an opponent 3 times before launching them, with each hit causing 4% damage, totaling up to 12% at the best of times.

The Steam Engine version of the attack creates a tornado of steam around Accel as he performs the move, which, in contrast to the rest of the steam attacks, sucks opponents in instead of pushing them out. This allows Accel to perform 2 more hits during the move, but decreases the damage of each hit to 3%, which still totals up at 13%.

The Jet Engine version is much more simple, as it consists of the move's hitbox extending due to a tornado of flames appearing around Accel. The Electric Engine version is even more simple, as it simply acts as the normal move, but leaves the opponent stunned and open at the end of the attack.


Smashes
Forward Smash - Flaming Kick

Accel ducks downwards, catching on fire as he does so, before unleashing a flaming side kick to the opponent in front of him. This is one of Accel's most powerful attacks, being able to deal 18% damage at no charge, and 28% damage at full charge, with a neat detail being that the flames grow more intense as he charges. It has a very low range however, about as much as Ganon's FTilt, and it's only slightly less laggy than it as well.

The Steam Engine version of the attack replaces the flames with steam, and creates a gigantic burst of steam in front of Accel, which can blow lighter opponents right off the stage due to it's power. The Jet Engine adds an interesting feature, as a burst of flame from behind Accel boosts him forward, extending the range of the kick, but making it even laggier. The Electric Engine variant adds a stunning effect, and causes the move to move at 1.5x it's regular speed, at the exchange of the damage being reduced to 2/3rds.


Up Smash - Rising Blade

In a fairly similar animation to the Up Special, Accel swings his sword upward, launching himself into the air, along with any opponents hit. Accel is launched upwards approximately 1 SBB, so not that much height is gained, and Accel must touch the ground again before he can use any other moves, making this move's main purpose a very simple, but powerful, launching move, as it can deal 14%-19% damage depending on the charge.

The Steam Engine variant boosts Accel upwards 1.5 SBB instead of the usual 1, and can slightly launch the opponents farther at the end. The Jet Engine variant increases the move's speed thanks to a burst of flame from below Accel. The Electric Engine version will, instead of launching opponents, go through them, leaving them stunned halfway between the move's height and the ground, allowing Accel enough time to perform a second attack, but also lowers the attack's strength by 4%.


Down Smash - Axel Spin

Accel lowers himself and his sword to the ground, and then spins around, the sword scraping around the ground until he spins around to where he was facing originally, where Accel unleashes another launching hit. The spin, like the Dash Attack, has some great range to it, but slightly less due to the sword being on a kind of diagonal angle. Both individual hitboxes cause 8%-12% damage, resulting in 16%-24% damage depending on the charge.

The Steam Engine causes the move to create a large tornado around Accel, but instead of sucking in the opponent, it instead causes the last hit to launch the opponent up even higher that usual. The Jet Engine creates a flame wave on both sides of Accel, which travel 2 SBB before disappearing at a very fast rate, and have an inward knockback, knocking the opponent towards Accel, and hopefully his attack. The Electric Engine creates a shield around Accel for the attack's duration, which stuns any opponent who touches it, causing them to fall into the attack.


Aerials
Neutral Aerial - Cycle Spin

In a very fast motion, Accel swings his sword around in a complete circle, creating a large, circular hitbox around him. This is fairly simple for a Neutral Aerial, as it has good range, deals a decent 10% damage, and has enough knockback to keep opponents sufficiently away.

The Steam Engine creates a burst of steam around where the move was used, creating a windbox that can add to the knockback. The Jet Engine adds a flame effect, boosting the damage to 12%, and increasing the knockback by a bit, but not as much as the Steam variant. The Electric Engine creates a circular electric pulse around the hitbox, which increases range a bit.


Forward Aerial - Aerial Thrust

Accel performs a thrusting animation similar to the FTilt, but with a diagonally downwards hitbox instead of a straight forward one. Using the move will cause Accel to do a quick hop in the air, giving him slightly more air time, and a chance to combo into another aerial. The attack deals 12% damage, with good downward knockback.

The Steam Engine variant, similar to the FTilt, creates a burst of steam that can push opponents away, this time at a downward angle, making this good for off ledge attacks. The Jet Engine creates a small burst of fire at the end of the sword, which increases damage to 14%, and increases the hop's duration, giving him even more time to perform aerials. The Electric Engine fires off a small electric blast, which functions exactly like the FTilt's blast, but at a more downward angle.


Up Aerial - Accel Twist

Accel points his sword upwards, and begins spinning around incredibly fast, becoming like an air borne drill. The drill deals 5 hits of 3%, meaning that it will cause 15% damage if all 5 hits hit. There is a bit of a suction effect during the start up, and at the end, when Accel goes back to hsi normal aerial stance, there is a burst of wind, which causes a light push to any opponents that were hit. The the end also has a bit of lag, meaning it can't combo into other aerials that well.

The Steam Engine version increases both the suction and blowing effect on the move, making them much more noticeable. The Jet Engine variant boosts the total damage to 18%, meaning it causes 6 hits of 3%, but the move is slightly slower in exchange. The Electric Engine causes the hit opponent to become stunned in the air for a moment, and also pushes the opponent downwards, preparing for a combo.


Back Aerial - Motor Kick

Accel turns around and performs a fairly basic sex kick, which, since this is Kamen Rider, means that it's his strongest base aerial, as it is incredibly fast, causes 18% damage, and does some great knockback. The hitbox is unfortunately fairly small, consisting of the front of Accel's leg, and the range is also fairly bad, but hitting with it is worth it.

The Steam Engine solves the attack's range problem, as a burst of steam causes Accel to be pushed forward a bit at the start of the move. The Jet Engine makes an already strong move even stronger, boosting the damage to 20% thanks to a burst of flame around Accel's leg, at the exchange of it's speed, halving it. The Electric Engine increases halves the damage, but has the best stun in the entire electric set, which stuns the opponent in the air, and leaves them open for a second attack if close enough to the ground.


Down Aerial - Cycle Slam

Accel raises his sword above his head, and then swings it downward, plummeting towards the ground as he does. This acts, obviously, as a meteor smash, and Accel travels towards the ground at around the speed of Link's DAir, but at the very start of the move, Accel has a bit more control, being able to shift his direction forwards or backwards. This is Accel's main combo move, with basically all of his aerials being able to flow into it in one way or another. It causes 16% damage, and has good downward knockback, being a meteor smash.

The Steam Engine version creates a burst of steam when Accel hits the ground, which creates extra knockback, and can in general keep opponents away. The Jet Engine variant creates a very similar burst of fire, which can cause an extra 3% damage, and also knocks opponents away. The Electric Engine creates a burst of electricity that, while not damaging opponents, can stun them for a bit if they are caught in the blast.


Grab Game
Grab & Pummel

Accel has a very standard grab and pummel, with him simply reaching out with the hand not holding the sword, which, as you can probably tell, doesn't have that great of a range to it. The pummel consists of Accel beating the opponent over the head with the hilt of his sword for 2% damage, but due to it's speed you can get in quite a few hits before the opponent escapes.


Forward Throw - Multi Stab

Accel lets go of the opponent, and then stabs his sword into them multiple times, about 4 times, with the last stab launching the opponent, and bringing the damage up to 12%. The Steam engine adds to this, as the last stab also creates a burst of steam, which adds to the knockback.

The Jet Engine creates a burst of fire during the final stab, which causes a burning effect on the opponent, as they take 2% damage every second for the next 3 seconds, getting an extra 6% damage on the attack. The Electric Engine stuns the opponent during the last hit, causing them to not be launched, and leaving them open for another attack. However, this cannot be infinited, since the same stun effect will not work twice in a row.


Up Throw - Quick Draw

Accel tosses the opponent into the air, and then stabs his sword upwards, launching the opponent upwards and causing 8% damage and decent upwards knockback. The Engine forms are the same as the ones for the FThrow, just with upwards knockback and such. This does change up the Electric Engine form, however, in that, since the opponent is stunned in the air, that leaves them open for an aerial, instead of another throw. Again, the stun does not work if a previous stun attack has been used.


Back Throw - Backing Out

Accel spins the opponent behind him, with their backs facing each other, and then stabs his sword behind him without looking, causing the opponent to launch off and take 9% damage. Like the UThrow, the Engine effects are the same.


Down Throw - Motor Crossed

Accel hits the opponent with his sword, causing them to fall to the ground. Accel then jumps in the air and turns into his motorcycle form, and revs his front wheel on the fallen opponent, causing them to launch, with some good knockback, and causing 9% damage. The effects are still the same, but with the steam, fire, and electrical effects applied to the tire instead of the sword.


Final Smash
Trial Form


Accel has the Smash Ball! He pulls out a large Memory, which is decorated with a large timer. Placing it in his belt, he transforms into his Trial Form, turning him blue. He then proceed sto throw the memory into the air, and off screen, causing everything around him to freeze in place. During this time, Accel has super speed, making him so fast that not even Sonic can move. During this time, a timer appears in the corner of the screen, where it counts up to ten seconds, and when those ten seconds are up, Accel will revert back to normal, with him catching the Memory as it falls from off screen.

Accel's entire set is replaced by generic, but incredibly fast punches and kicks, which still deal the same number of damage as their normal versions. What makes this form so special is that, since time is frozen, all the damage and knockback stacks whenever he hits an opponent, meaning that you can basically instantly knock someone out. However, thanks to the super speed, he can easily take out 3 opponents in that time.
 
Last edited:

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
LUBBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbUw57tehB8&list=PLcs-Apkv31pTPtrCW4bnVdtAbavgYaT3u

Lubba is a supporting character from Super Mario Galaxy 2 and the leader of the Lumas, directly taking the role of Rosalina who is reduced to nothing but a cameo role in his game. If Lubba was a sexy woman, he probably would’ve been put in the spinoffs and Smash Bros afterwards.

Lubba appears very similar to the hungry Lumas who can be fed star bits to turn into new levels, obviously very fat. Unlike the other hungry Lumas, Lubba does not want to kill himself in order to be “reincarnated” as a planet, having any actual will to live. He ensures that all of the power stars are kept in place and that a steady stream of Lumas are sacrificing themselves regularly in order to become planets, so long as it’s not him.

Playlist

STATISTICS
Aerial Control: 10
Size: 9
Weight: 8.5
Jumps: 8
Aerial Speed: 5
Traction: 4.5
Falling Speed: 4
Ground Movement: 2

Lubba is a heavyweight with an aerial affinity, a very dangerous combination in the vein of Brawl Dedede. While his low falling speed makes him easier to kill off the top than some other heavyweights, the advantages make it more than worth it, and he’s certainly still plenty durable.



Lubba is accompanied by a Hungry Luma at all times in an identical manner to Rosalina, which behave in the same way to the letter with the same mechanics, durability, and respawn time. Hungry Lumas are the size of Kirby, and Lubba becomes a bit more crippled by their deaths than Rosalina, which is nice when killing Rosalina’s Lumas practically does nothing to slow her down. Considering Lubba’s appearance and name are largely based on his weight, it makes sense that he uses Hungry Lumas rather than regular ones.

SPECIALS

NEUTRAL SPECIAL – STAR BITS

A targeting reticle identical to the one in Mario Galaxy appears over Lubba for as long as the button is held. The reticle can move anywhere you want at Captain Falcon’s dashing speed, and star bits will constantly be fired from the foreground at the position of the reticle. It’s almost entirely lagless to fire Star Bits, but it takes them a full second to actually reach the main stage and hit people.

Star bits deal a token 1% and flinching, but Lubba will fire 1 star bit every 2 frames he holds down B, or 30 per second. If a foe stood in place and tanked the star bits, they would take 30% per second, but it’s very easy to DI away from the star bits after only taking about 10 hits. Theoretically if you could predict the foe’s DI perfectly you could infinite them with this move, but the second long delay obviously prevents this.



If star bits are fired at Lubba or a Hungry Luma, they will laglessly consume the star bit regardless of what action they’re doing, even dodging. This will increase their size by 2% per star bit eaten, and their power will be boosted by 1.01x for every 2% their size increases. At 200% size, the cap, they will have 1.5x their regular power.



Nothing special happens to Lubba when he’s max size, but Hungry Lumas will turn into planets. They will hover upwards at least 1.25 Ganondorfs into the air if they weren’t already before they form a solid planet 1.5x Bowser’s size. The forming of the planet is a hitbox that deals 13% and radial knockback that kills at 140%. Lubba will instantly get a new Hungry Luma minion if he turns it into a planet. The Hungry Lumas will refuse to turn into planets if more than 3 Ganondorfs away from the stage, instead flying into range before they do so. This prevents Lubba from stalling on a planet far away from the stage forever.

Planets have their own gravity and are solid. If an aerial character comes within a Mario height of the planet, they will get pulled in at the force of Dedede’s inhale. If they actually stand on the planet, they will be fully affected by its gravity, become able to stand on it, and any “falling speed” will cause them to fall towards the planet rather than downwards. Characters can run around planets and stand on them upside down with how gravity works on them, and projectiles also are bound by the gravity of planets, circling around them if their range allows it. In order to escape a planet’s gravity, characters must move 1.2 Ganondorf heights away from it. Enemies can destroy planets by dealing 75 damage to them, and planets will stick around through Lubba’s stocks.

Summoning star bits only puts Lubba in lag while his Hungry Luma is free to move and do anything that doesn’t require the B button (the only special Hungry Luma can use is Side Special anyway). Hungry Luma cannot shield or dodge and is obviously far more frail than Lubba, but this serves as the most obvious way to desynch it from Lubba. Unlike Rosalina and Luma, Lubba and Hungry Luma are very similar physically, and as such have mostly the same moveset.

SIDE SPECIAL – STAR SPIT

Lubba and Hungry Luma begin spitting a stream of star bits together, traveling the length of Final Destination. Each of them shoot 3 star bits per second by default, which still do 1% and flinching like in the Neutral Special.

If Lubba/Hungry Luma have consumed star bits already, they will spit them out at the same rate they can be fired in Neutral Special, but this will decrease their size as they do so. This is a very powerful stream of projectiles to actually show up on the spot without any kind of delay, but it’s using up a very valuable resource.

If Lubba and Hungry Luma are facing each other, they will consume the star bits they spit at each other before immediately spitting them back out. This can enable Lubba and Hungry Luma to have a constant stream of Star Bits going between each other to keep the set-up forever, though if a foe knocks either one of you out of the way, all the star bits sent flying won’t be caught and will be wasted. So long as Lubba/Hungry Luma are facing the star bits, they can reconsume them regardless of what action they’re in, enabling them to spit projectiles while on a planet and wait for them to circle back around before eating them again.

UP SPECIAL – BLACK HOLE

Lubba forms a black hole in front of himself similar in appearance to the one formed by Rosalina in her fsmash and dsmash. Unlike Rosalina, these actually do things beyond be generic hitboxes and stick around as traps until destroyed with 30 HP. If a character is knocked into a black hole when 2 exist, they will get sucked inside of it for .3 seconds before being shot out of the other one in the opposite direction they were flying before resuming their knockback where they left off. As enemies fly out of the black hole, they are immune to further hitstun for 0.1 seconds if they’re an enemy.

Creating a black hole in the air when one already exists will cause Lubba (and Hungry Luma if he’s synched) to enter it after he finishes creating it, coming out the other side .1 seconds later. If Lubba already had 2 black holes when he input Up Special, he can choose which one he comes out of by holding left or right to go into the leftmost or rightmost black hole, with the one he didn’t use being destroyed. If Lubba already has 2 black holes and he inputs Up Special in front of one of them, he’ll just enter it immediately without going through extra lag to create a new one.

If projectiles enter a black hole when 2 exist, the projectile will be transferred into the other one and be shot out in the opposite direction before resuming its trajectory. In the case of Lubba’s Neutral Special, the star bits will be shot out of the black hole as if they were fired by Lubba’s Side Special. If the black holes are destroyed while projectiles are still inside of them before they are shot out, they will be stored and be shot out of the next black hole that is opened. If a foe’s projectile hits a black hole, it will still be transferred like Lubba’s projectile, but it will deal its damage to the first black hole and will still retain ownership to the foe.

If Lubba (not Hungry Luma) enters a black hole while a foe is inside, he will come out of the black hole when the foe does with them grabbed.

If Lubba inputs Up Special in the air with no black holes created yet, he will stick his lower half into it before firing himself upwards out of it 1.3 Ganondorf heights at a 45 degree angle as a hitbox that deals 13% and knockback that kills at 165% before entering helpless. This means Lubba still has access to a recovery without having to rely on set-up. Lubba of course prefers to have black holes already up, and he has playstyle incentives to keep them out besides recovery when they enable him to better flood the stage with star bits.

DOWN SPECIAL – GRAVITATIONAL PULL

This is similar to Rosalina’s Down Special of the same name – Lubba becomes a center of gravity and causes all projectiles in a 1.5x Bowser width radius around him to levitate in place, constantly staying that specific distance away from him as he moves around. This can nullify enemy projectiles, but will not take ownership of them, and when Lubba takes knockback he will be sent flying faster than he can keep up his pull, enabling him to be knocked into enemy projectiles he has grabbed with this move.

Lubba can fire star bits all around himself to form something of a protective shield around himself that he can use to ram into enemies with a powerful hitbox, but when star bits are so weak they can be destroyed by any enemy attack, so it’s more for offensive purposes than defensive.

This will work on Hungry Luma, causing him to stay a specific distance away from Lubba. This can make his hurtbox not overlap with Lubba and enable him to attack from more advantageous angles. If a foe was within range of this move, they will just be levitated about in place and dealt 6% in an animation very similar to Mewtwo’s Side Special before being free to act again.

If Lubba inputs this move when he already has something grabbed, he will attempt to grab more objects in addition to the ones he already has. If he holds down B, he will be able to rotate the objects around him by holding down left or right. If he smashes Down Special when he has something grabbed, he will cause all of the objects to fly away from him at radial angles directly away from himself. Any projectiles he has caught will have their range reset when fired out like this. This will make enemy projectiles harmful to their owners, but they will still be hurtful to Lubba so as to not be as stupid as the reflectors actually in Smash. If Hungry Luma was fired out with Down Special Smash, he will be fired out a set distance comparably to Rosalina’s Neutral Special in the specified direction.

If Lubba inputs the move as a smash when he has something grabbed already, he will move the gravitational field rather than rotating it as he holds the button, moving about at Mario’s dash speed. The gravitational field will stay wherever it is when Lubba releases it, and Lubba can still input Down Special to move it where it is. If Down Special Smash is input and Lubba, Hungry Luma, or the foe is inside of the ring, it will become synched to that character, prioritizing them in that order if multiple characters are inside of it. The gravitational field will only follow a foe for 10 seconds before it will stop in place and stop following them, and Lubba cannot resynch it to them for 2 more seconds.

If Lubba is moving around the gravitational field and holds shield in addition to B, the radius of the gravitational field will expand outwards/inwards based off whether the right/left shield button was held, though the radius cannot be any smaller than the default. A particularly interesting opportunity this offers is to make a gravitational field that circles a planet perfectly. Shooting star bits around a planet is already nice, but now you can grab them out of thin air and redirect them! The spherical nature of planets prevents foe from just hiding inside the ring of the gravitational field, and Lubba’s moveset is of course well equipped to fight on these planets.

SMASHES

FORWARD SMASH – STAR BALL

Lubba generates star bits in front of himself to form a giant clumped up ball of star bits during the charging before firing it off at Mario’s dashing speed the distance of Final Destination. If Lubba has no Hungry Luma synched to him, he will generate a Kirby-Wario sized star bit ball that deals 15-20% and knockback that kills at 180-160%. Hungry Luma will assist Lubba and help adding star bits to charge the ball, making it be Kirby-Bowser sized, deal 15-25%, and knockback that kills at 180-140%. If any star bits from any source come into contact with the ball as it’s charging or flying forward, they will be added into the ball and adds to its power, charging it up if it was uncharged, or increasing its power and size by up to 1.3x with 20 additional star bits if it was already fully charged with both Lubba and Hungry Luma. If Lubba is undisturbed, firing Neutral Special at his location for a full second before beginning to charge this move will enable him to reach the move’s full potential power.

Hungry Luma counts as “synched” if he is in Lubba’s Down Special Gravitational Pull, in which case they will form the ball between them before firing it in the direction Lubba was originally facing. The ball deals 5 hits of 1% and flinching during charging, so the positioning of Hungry Luma can be relevant, potentially using him and the ball as a meat shield for Lubba during charging.

If Hungry Luma is desynched when using this move, the version he charges will be Pokeball-Mario sized and deal 9-14% with knockback that kills at 215-190%. If two Star Balls meet up with each other, the larger one will absorb the smaller one assuming it’s not at max size already. This version can enable Lubba to get a higher power with less charge time, but obviously leaves them both more vulnerable.

While Lubba/Hungry Luma cannot eat the star ball like individual star bits, if it breaks the star ball will burst back into individual star bits that all fly off at slightly different angles to form a circle around the target they hit. The ball has an amount of star bits in it equal to the amount of damage it would deal. If the star bits hit an actual opponent, they won’t get hit by the star bits as it splits up, as the star bits fly off incredibly quickly at Sonic’s dashing speed and aren’t hitboxes until moving a Marth height away from the original target.

Lubba will want to recollect as many of the star bits as possible, with ways to do that including eating them, having Hungry Luma desynched to eat some on another side, black holes, and having them get sucked into a planet’s gravity and start circling it. If nothing else, this will halt the foe from regaining offensive momentum briefly as they have to wait for the wall of projectiles surrounding them to disperse, as rolling past it will prove quite difficult.

UP SMASH – METEOR

Lubba summons a Wario sized meteor above himself to drop his own width in front of himself. The meteor will spawn at varying heights above Lubba based off charge, 1.5 Ganondorf-3 Ganondorf heights if 99% charged, or spawning at the top blast zone if fully charged. The meteor is immediately a hitbox as it spawns and Lubba can spawn it very quickly, though he takes a bit longer to exit lag. The meteor will begin falling to the ground after spawning, and while it’s weak and slow at first, as it begins to “enter Earth’s atmosphere”, it will begin flaming and become faster and more powerful.

The meteor starts out dealing 10% and knockback that kills at 200%, but for each Ganondorf it falls it will increase in damage by 3% and KO 17% earlier. If the meteor hits the stage, it will explode in an explosion the size of Kirby, increasing in size by half a Kirby radius for every Ganondorf the meteor fell. Half of this explosion will take place inside of the stage, while the other half will be above it as an actual hitbox, but if the meteor fall far enough this will still be bigger than the normal hitbox it has. The meteor retains the normal power here in the explosion, but is boosted as if it had fell yet another Ganondorf height. This caps at 5 Ganondorf heights + the 1 “bonus” for landing on the stage, dealing 28% and killing at 102%.

Any part of the explosion that overlaps the stage will destroy that portion of the stage, leaving a crater, the terrain sloping on either side to enable people to run across from one side of the decimated ground to the other. Lubba cannot destroy edges with this or actually break through to the bottom of a stage. While planets will persist after Lubba’s death, his terraforming done to the main stage will be restored.

Hungry Luma’s version is 0.7x weaker in size and power, and also only goes up 0.7x as high into the air, is unable to spawn at the top blast zone like Lubba’s version, cannot terraform, and falls even more slowly. If Hungry Lumma uses this move alongside Lubba, Lubba’s meteor will crash into Hungry Luma’s and cause both of them to blow up. While this will not stack the power, the explosions will both use the power of Lubba’s meteor rather than Hungry Luma’s. If you want Lubba’s meteor to actually hit the ground and terraform, you’ll want to keep Hungry Luma out of the way with Gravitational Pull.

If one of Lubba’s planets is affected by Warlord brand terraforming (Including any in this moveset of course), slopes will not be created, but instead the amount of ground that would be affected is simply destroyed. Planets will retain their gravity when damaged for the most part, but a percentage of the gravity’s range will vanish that corresponds to the amount of the planet destroyed. While this makes it hard to suck enemies onto the planet against their will, it means you can still stand on it even if there’s very little there. When the planet has less than one fifth of its mass left, it will lose its solid status and fall to the ground as a generic hitbox that does a token 11% and knockback that kills at 160%, vanishing.

Lubba is able to spawn meteors inside of planets if he stands on the main stage below the planet, destroying them from the inside. This can be useful to hit opponents who are merely standing on the planet as you instantly spawn a hitbox on top of them, and for intentionally decreasing the range of the planet’s gravity if you feel like it.

If Lubba positions one black hole directly above another one, he can have the meteor fall into the lower black hole before being transferred to the higher black hole. This will cause the meteor to keep going in a cycle forever and enable it to quickly reach max power. When you want it to actually hit the stage, Lubba merely needs to create a new black hole, though it’s tempting to simply keep it around as a trap. The foe has to destroy one of the black holes to stop this trap, and that can prove very dangerous without risking getting hit by the super strong meteor. This can of course also apply to star bits/star balls, and mixing them in with this can make it even scarier. It may be safer for foes to knock Lubba off the stage to force him to recover to voluntarily remove the potentially very elaborate trap.

If Lubba grabs onto a meteor with his Gravitational Field, it will briefly retain its momentum from falling, visible by how much fire is surrounding the meteor. It won’t just be frozen in place, though, quickly losing its power/momentum, even a fully charged meteor losing all of it in just 2 seconds. If Lubba moves the meteor around in his gravitational field, this will slightly slow down the rate it loses its momentum, 5 seconds for a fully charged meteor to turn to nothing. This can redirect what is otherwise a very slow and predictable projectile, and can also enable you to briefly grab a meteor out of a black hole loop to bat at the enemy before putting it back when you’re satisfied without any loss.

DOWN SMASH – BELLY BUMP

If Lubba and Hungry Luma are desynched, this is a rather generic move where they turn to face the camera and puff out their stomachs to bump enemies away, dealing 10-15%/6-9% and radial knockback that kills at 180-155%/230-205% based off which one did it. If they are synched, they will turn to face each other before belly bumping into each other, forming a hitbox that deals 19-24% and knockback that kills at 145-100%. This will cause the smaller of the two (Hungry Luma by default of course) to be launched a distance that varies based off the size difference between the two characters. At max size, Lubba can launch a minimum size Hungry Luma 1.5x Final Destination’s length at 1.2x Sonic’s dashing speed, making him deal 20% and knockback that kills at 80%. This enables you to easily separate one of them from the other, and the launched one of the two will have very little vulnerability, with the one left behind being the one in more vulnerable lag since they’re not moving and aren’t a hitbox anymore.

By default they would simply fire the other character straight forwards, but if Luba has up a gravitational pull he can choose the angle they fire each other at. If used for defensive purposes, up is a popular option, or at some kind of upward angle if in a pit from usmash to fire them up the side of a slope. This is a very obvious move to desynch the characters, and can enable Lubba to send Hungry Luma out on a gimping mission if Hungry Luma is underfed and replacable anyway.

Alternatively, a fat Hungry Luma could launch Lubba away onto a planet or something to do set-up in relative safety while Hungry Luma fights the foe. If that sounds too difficult to multitask, all Lubba has to do is hold down B for his most direct method of set-up. If Hungry Luma was already fat enough to launch Lubba, he must be close to ready to become a planet anyway, so launching Lubba away to use Neutral Special can be a good way to enable the Hungry Luma to transform in safety while still fighting the foe.

AERIALS

DOWN AERIAL – FALLING STAR

Lubba performs the stereotypical stall then fall, becoming a hitbox that deals 17% and a spike 0.85x weaker than Ganon’s dair. Hungry Luma is much weaker as you’d expect and falls slower to boot, only dealing 9% and knockback that kills at 180%. If Hungry Luma was totally synched to Lubba, he will land on top of him after falling a Ganondorf height and shoot him downwards with the power of this move, making him a hitbox that deals 13% and knockback that kills at 100%. This will cause Lubba to cancel out of the aerial, skipping what would otherwise be bad ending lag.

If Hungry Luma is in a Gravitational Pull he will fall alongside Lubba, unless he was below Lubba at which point he will get crushed when they hit the ground. This can still happen normally if Lubba uses the move less than a Ganondorf height off the ground. If Lubba crushes Hungry Luma into the ground, Hungry Luma will get fully pitfalled inside the stage, having no hurtbox except against earthshaking attacks. This still prevents Lubba from having any kind of ending lag instead of the stereotypical bad landing lag from such moves, and while Hungry Luma will be in very extensive lag, he will be invulnerable during it. Aside from basic desynching/defensive strategy, the Lubba player can potentially send Neutral Special Star Bits where Hungry Luma is going to come out for him to eat as soon as he comes out, with the foe unable to pressure Hungry Luma away from that position since he’s invulnerable. Of course, Lubba now has to find time to set this up while alone, but even that isn’t as difficult as it sounds since he’ll have just created a very threatening hitbox and be free of lag.

If Lubba is bigger when he uses this move from eating star bits, Hungry Luma will stay pitfalled inside the stage for a longer duration. If Lubba is at least 1.5x his normal size, he will terraform when he smashes his fat ass onto the stage in a manner identical to the usmash. At 1.5x size, he will create a pit half as large as the usmash would create based on how far it falls, while at max size Lubba will create pits just as large. Creating slopes in the stage makes one of the best place to desynch a gravitational field besides a planet, letting the lower half of the circle occupy the dip in the stage while the upper half occupies the obvious trail the foe would jump over it with.

This has a very specific interaction if Lubba blows up the insides of a planet with usmash. If Lubba pitfalls Hungry Luma inside a planet with open space on the inside, Hungry Luma will be able to move inside the planet during that time! The main move he has access to in order to actually hit opponents is usmash, but he can also clip outside the planet to hit other foes on the planet if he really feels like it. Of course, foes can also clip their hitboxes to hit Hungry Luma, and given Hungry Luma’s nature he can still die from this despite being completely boxed in. Hungry Luma will still come up out from the inside of the planet after the normal amount of time passes. If you feed Hungry Luma enough Star Bits to make him transform while he’s inside a planet (Since you can still fire them directly to him with Neutral Special), instead of creating another planet he will add onto the size of the existing planet, repairing any destroyed portions, making it twice as big, adding an additional 75 HP, and proportionately increasing the radius of the gravity. This is far from a mandatory playstyle element, but makes it more feasible to keep around a planet throughout the generations of Lubba’s stocks.

NEUTRAL AERIAL - INHALE

Lubba begins inhaling for as long as the button is held down, pulling foes towards his mouth at the extremely nerfed rate of SSB4 Dedede’s Inhale. Lubba can DI while doing this unlike Dedede, and the hitbox is all around Lubba rather than just in front of him, making it a lot more potent for gimping. When Lubba releases A, he will exhale, pushing foes away with 7% and knockback that kills at 200%. Oftentimes Lubba will not want to do the forced exhale, but he can force himself to cancel out of the move by grabbing the ledge to use it better for obnoxious gimping.

If Hungry Luma is completely synched, he will buff the power of the inhale to be as strong as Brawl Dedede’s Inhale. If Hungry Luma is synched by a Gravitional Field, then he will still create his own wind hitbox to the side of Lubba, potentially causing foes to get awkwardly stuck between Lubba and Hungry Luma. They are very easy to interrupt out of this, but it can enable them to briefly drag an enemy, potentially into a planet’s gravity radius. Hungry Luma’s exhale isn’t weakened at all considering Lubba’s is already so weak anyway.

Of course this inhale can grab Star Bits out of the air, and the character will consume them as they’re sucked in. If the character chooses to exhale Star Bits within 15 frames of consuming them, they will exhale them in a circle shape around themselves, shooting them out at Sonic’s dashing speed in an identical fashion to how Star Balls split up with the fsmash.

This is incredibly, incredibly powerful when used in tandem with the fsmash. If you can keep a star ball around long enough for you to get on top of a foe or simply have one of your characters next to that foe when the other one launches it, they can inhale the star bits as they blast away from the foe. They can either eat them to make sure the star bits don’t go to waste, or immediately spit them back out in the foe’s face. When spit out in this fashion, the star bits are immediately a hitbox before they spread out, enabling you to shotgun them on the foe. The main scenario where you’d consider immediately sending them back out instead of eating them is on a foe who shielded the star ball and is still around to be hit. While this might sound predictable, if the two characters are desynched it’s very easy to put enough pressure on the opponent to make them shield at intervals where they’re the ones who are predictable, not you.

If Hungry Luma is ever killed and has eaten any star bits, he will explode in an explosion of the star bits he’s eaten as if he’d exhaled them with nair. It looks quite similar to when Megaman dies, except actually relevant and not just an easter egg. The star bits won’t be a hitbox until they fly a Marth height away from Hungry Luma like in fsmash, so foes won’t just be immediately punished for killing Hungry Luma.

FORWARD AERIAL - BLOAT

Lubba and Hungry Luma puff out their chests and charge forwards, dealing 9/5% and knockback that kills at 140/185%. The move causes the characters to travel forwards slightly, though not enough to be terribly helpful for recovery.

If either character has eaten any star bits, this move reveals its true nature as a very weird counter. Upon being hit, that character will vomit up an amount of star bits equal to the amount of damage the enemy character dealt. The character performing the counter will still take all of the offending attack’s damage and will in fact take even more knockback from the force of their own vomit, 1.2x the knockback of the foe’s attack. The foe simply takes the damage of their own attack and an amount of hitstun that increases based on how much damage they took as more star bits get vomited upon them. If the countering character had less star bits than the damage of the foe’s attack dealt, then they simply vomit all of them.

If Lubba is alone, this is a terrible, terrible counter compared to the existing ones in Smash Bros, as he can’t even capitalize on the foe’s stunned state. With Hungry Luma around, it becomes a lot scarier for the foe if you can desynch the other character well enough to actually punish the foe while they’re busy dealing with the other one. Even if Hungry Luma is synched, this becomes a notable move because it can potentially deal the foe twice the damage of their own attack. Of course, it’s a pretty steep price to pay in star bits and could potentially kill Hungry Luma or even Lubba.

BACK AERIAL – GRAVITATIONAL PUSH

Lubba distorts a Bowser sized clump of air behind himself, pushing anything in it forward with only 5%, but hefty knockback that kills at 115%, along with a high base knockback. If Hungry Luma is synched to Lubba, he will create a push effect in front of Lubba rather than behind him, and it will knock foes behind Lubba into Lubba’s personal hitbox. Hungry Luma’s is only Wario sized and deals 3% and knockback that kills at 200% without the high base knockback. If Hungry Luma is properly desynched, he will make the push effect behind himself.

While this move isn’t the fastest, the rather long hitbox duration is what covers most of the time you’re committed to the move. This is not a bad thing as it enables Lubba and Hungry Luma to push the foe into each other’s hitboxes. Essentially, you want to hit with the opposite hitbox first that you actually want the effect of – hit with Hungry Luma first to make Lubba’s high knockback be what the foe leaves the combo with, or hit with Lubba first in order to keep the foe nearby with Hungry Luma’s weaker knockback.

This move is useful in the context of a planet, as one of the hitboxes can be within one system of gravity while the other hitbox can be in the other one. This makes a decent move to put a foe into another system of gravity, and if Lubba hits first (and his hitbox size makes him easier to), Hungry Luma’s weak knockback will generally not knock the foe out of the new gravity system due to the foe’s awkward new direction they fall. This can lead this move into some “light” combos – this move is particularly obnoxious when you attempt to chain it into itself on a planet as a foe struggles to regain their footing. This works better at low percentages, so it makes keeping a planet around after Lubba dies more valuable. The damage from this move is very low even if both characters hit, though, so you’ll always be wanting to try to transition this into something more ambitious.

UP AERIAL - DIPPERS

Lubba and Hungry Luma turn to face the camera and do a rather generic spin if alone, dealing 10/6 hits of 1% and flinching with the last hit dealing knockback that KOs at 165/210%. If they’re together, Lubba will grab Hungry Luma and start swinging him over his head as a battering weapon. As Hungry Luma is being swung, he always does knockback towards Lubba - when being swung above Lubba he deals knockback downwards and vice versa. Hungry Luma deals 8% and knockback that kills at 170% as he’s being swung about.

At low percentages, this can potentially combo into itself as the foe gets knocked above and below Lubba, but this is rather difficult. The larger either of the characters get, though, the more and more lenient this becomes. If both are maxed, this will actually combo better at higher percentages, potentially letting you hit the foe 3 or 4 times with a powered up Hungry Luma.

If Lubba is interrupted out of this move with Hungry Luma not getting hit, this will cause Lubba to release him and send him flying. Hungry Luma will be thrown in the direction he was currently being swung, with the power being as great as a dsmash if Hungry Luma was at either the top or bottom of the arc. If the foe is hitting you from that angle, this can function as a counter that will not only fit the foe in that direction, but cause Hungry Luma to follow along for more potential followups.

GRAB-GAME

LUBBA/HUNGRY LUMA GRAB – GRAB/LATCH

Lubba’s grab is an animation similar to Mewtwo’s Side Special, where he begins to levitate the foe in place. Hungry Luma’s grab has him leap forward and latch onto the foe like a Pikmin, attaching himself to whatever body part he came in contact with until the foe knocks him off with a move that makes that portion of their body a hitbox. Hungry Luma’s grab does not stun the foe in any way and is not considered a grab by the engine.

If Hungry Luma is fully synched to Lubba, he will automatically “grab” the foe if Lubba does, sticking onto them as Lubba throws them. Hungry Luma will not respond to throw inputs while Lubba has the foe grabbed, only pummel inputs. Once the foe is out of Lubba’s grasp, you can input grab + a direction for Hungry Luma to perform his “throws”, or just grab for pummel. Lubba will not respond to the grab input while Hungry Luma is latched onto the foe. Hungry Luma will not be able to act beyond pummeling until the foe exits stun from Lubba’s throw.

LUBBA PUMMEL - LEVITATE

If the gravitational field was synched to the foe, this move will synch it back to Lubba instead, enabling him to make use of the uthrow. Lubba levitates the foe in a circle around himself, going underneath his body before showing back up in front of him. This will cause them to get levitated past any items Lubba was holding in his Gravitational Field if it was synched to him, automatically hitting them with them. In the case of Star Bits, the foe will not be knocked out of the grab, though anything more powerful will. If Hungry Luma was in the Gravitational Field, this will cause him to latch onto the foe as they pass by him.

This pummel only lasts for as long as Lubba holds/rapidly presses Z. Lubba can stop pummeling at any time to keep the foe at that position in the levitation field. It requires a fairly high percentage on the foe to levitate them entirely around Lubba, so this isn’t as broken of a damage dealer as it first appears. The foe will take 1% per every quarter circle around Lubba they levitate, meaning this still does damage if you have no set-up. If the foe ends up behind Lubba when he’s done pummeling, he will turn around.

HUNGRY LUMA PUMMEL – HUNGRY BITING

Considering Hungry Luma’s limbs are very frail looking, he simply bites into the enemy in order to damage them, dealing 1% in a pummel that takes .4 seconds with no flinching. While this isn’t that great, Hungry Luma’s grab-game is primarily used as a bonus on top of Lubba’s grab. Using it when desynched is largely asking for Hungry Luma to die.

If you feed Hungry Luma enough Star Bits to transform while he has the enemy “grabbed”, he will be able to drag the enemy with him as he goes up to become a planet without being slowed down at all. The foe can still knock Hungry Luma off during this time, and they almost undoubtedly will considering how far Hungry Luma has to travel to become a planet. If they somehow fail to do this, though, they will take 20% and become pitfalled out of the bottom of the planet upside down with the full strength of a pitfall item. While it’s very easy to prevent, if Hungry Luma was low enough on HP that the foe’s attack would kill him, he will explode into star bits like usual. Considering he was about to transform into a planet, the star bits will immediately be hitboxes, and since he was obviously fat there will be a ton of them. If the foe didn’t use an especially fast aerial to enable themselves to air dodge, they’ll be getting hit by all of them, which is potentially more threatening than the pitfall effect.

While this might all sound incredibly situational and dangerous when it requires Hungry Luma’s HP to be low to make it super scary, it’s not especially hard to set-up star bits to fly into Hungry Luma while he’s latched onto the foe. If the star bits are coming from the opposite side of the foe that Hungry Luma is on, the foe will have to dodge or shield the star bits instead of addressing Hungry Luma. If the foe simply dodges the star bits, Hungry Luma will of course eat them instead as their penalty as they pass by their back. If they shield the star bits to destroy them, then Hungry Luma can use one of his throws to shield poke the foe out of the edge of their hurtbox if he was positioned there when he latched on.

HUNGRY LUMA FORWARD THROW – KICK OFF

Hungry Luma kicks off of the foe to deal a generic 4% and knockback that kills at 260% while sending himself flying backwards a set distance of a Bowser width. This throw is nearly instant and mainly functions as a panic button, since all of his other throws/pummeling leaves the Hungry Luma in a lot more danger. This is also the obvious move to lead into an fair counter, as at low percentages Hungry Luma will charge right back at the foe as they hopefully attack where he was. Sadly Hungry Luma cannot use moves when he’s transforming into a planet such as said counter, as hilarious as that would be.

HUNGRY LUMA BACK THROW - SUCTION

Hungry Luma inhales for a lengthy 1.2 seconds, sucking the foe backwards at the force of SSB4 Dedede’s Inhale and causing star bits in front of the foe to get sucked into them faster. If he somehow hasn’t been interrupted during this time, he will do the normal exhale from the nair afterwards, dealing 7% and knockback that kills at 200%, and spitting out anything he just inhaled back into the foe. Aside from providing obvious pressure when you’re sending star bits at the enemy, this can be the extra push needed to knock the foe into a planet’s gravity radius from one of Lubba’s throws.

Hungry Luma’s throws can be dodged, though his pummel can’t. The wind hitbox on the bthrow can’t be dodged, making it a popular choice for the consistent effect regardless of the foe’s behavior.

HUNGRY LUMA UP THROW – GALAXY SPIN

Hungry Luma does the generic Super Mario Galaxy spin that the main Luma does, dealing 6 hits of 1% and flinching before launching the foe upwards with pitiful knockback that kills at 300%. This has a fair bit more start-up than fthrow despite the better damage.

The spin, like in Super Mario Galaxy, will trigger black holes to suck the foe up if they were within a Mario width of them without the foe needed to be sent flying into it at full force. Hungry Luma will remain latched onto the foe on the other side, and will eat any star bits inside the black hole automatically, potentially enabling him to transform into a planet as soon as he comes out the other side with the foe dragged along with him. Be aware that this is quite predictable if near a black hole, and you’d probably be better off having Lubba knock the foe into it instead. If the foe is otherwise occupied by Lubba, though, you can try this out for a spin.

HUNGRY LUMA DOWN THROW - PLOP

Hungry Luma climbs up to the top of the foe briefly, skipping this lag if he was already on top of them, though possibly avoiding some attacks aimed lower down the foe’s body. He then simply goes to crush the enemy under his weight, falling onto his back. This throw deals only 5% and knockback that kills at 230%, but scales massively with Hungry Luma’s size. Instead of the usual 1.5x, this throw can deal up to 16% and knockback that kills at 150%. This throw isn’t really incentive enough to go out of your way to get a fat Hungry Luma on the foe, but the possibility of him turning into a planet during the process makes this otherwise gimmicky sounding throw a lot more realistic to actually incorporate into a game plan. If Hungry Luma is at least 1.5x normal size, he will gain superarmor during the actual fall.

Even if Hungry Luma was already positioned on the foe’s head, this has enough lag it will be fairly consistently dodged by the foe. The real appeal of this throw is that when Hungry Luma is facing upwards with his chest puffed out, Lubba can use his dsmash belly bounce and his dair falling star interactions on Hungry Luma as if he was performing those moves. In the case of dair Hungry Luma will save Lubba from landing lag, and in dsmash the foe will be dragged along with Hungry Luma as he gets sent flying, giving incentive for this throw to be used when Hungry Luma isn’t fat.

LUBBA FORWARD THROW – BELLY BOUNCE

Lubba throws the foe carelessly a small distance in front of himself before belly flopping on top of them, dealing 11% and forwards knockback that kills at 140%. Lubba will bounce off the ground 1-3 Ganondorf heights based off how fat he is. This rarely lets him interact with the foe as they are sent at a different angle, though it is yet another possible throw to use as a retreat. If Lubba uses this on one slope as he sends the foe to the opposite side of the slope, the angling of the slope will cause Lubba to get launched at the other side of the slope, possibly able to punish the opponent in some way. If you want to be really elaborate, you can use the move when under a black hole before using it to chase the foe or just send projectiles straight through it.

This is Lubba’s most straightforward throw, and it’s his only throw that deals direct horizontal knockback. This enables him to throw a foe up a slope to potentially send them into a planet’s gravity, and on a planet this is the throw that will send them flying all the way around it. Lubba bouncing is actually unfortunate when he uses this move on a planet, as it will cause him to get bounced away when the foe could otherwise be knocked right back into his face. If Lubba uses this on the underside of a planet, though, causing him to get bounced to the stage below, it’s more feasible to get back to the planet in time to punish the foe in some way.

LUBBA BACK THROW - WORMHOLE

Lubba forms a black hole next to himself and throws the foe in before squeezing in after them. This causes the foe to be sent out of whatever other remaining black hole there is as they get shot out of it with weak set downwards knockback before Lubba comes out of the black hole to crush them. The foe takes 4% inside the black hole, 4% as they hit the ground, and then 10% as they are crushed by Lubba with knockback that kills at 100%. If there was no black hole already formed for the foe and Lubba to come out of, a second one will be created a Ganondorf above and a Bowser width in front of the first one. Lubba will stop falling after he goes 1.25 Ganondorf heights if he has not hit solid ground yet, and he will banned from using Up Special until he touches ground to prevent bizarre kills with under the stage black holes, you can still suicide kill if you really feel like it, though you’d probably be dying twice to even set up the black hole.

The foe is free to act when they are shot out of the second black hole, able to dodge Lubba. If Lubba makes the second black hole right against the ground, he will be disappointed to find that foes can tech it to also escape the throw (though they’ll still take 4% for hitting the ground). In the least, Lubba is superarmored as he falls to prevent any attempts to punish him for using a throw.

Hungry Luma is required if Lubba expects to land the crushing portion. Hungry Luma’s fthrow is the main move to generically stun the foe if they don’t act, and bthrow will prevent the foe from escaping if they air dodge too fast. Uthrow won’t be able to suck a foe back into a black hole right after they’ve come out of it, there being a cooldown period of 10 frames or so, but if a foe air dodges they can get sucked back into the black hole, giving enough time for Lubba to react in some way. Hungry Luma’s dthrow is another acceptable option for a foe who dodges straight away, which is actually a better damage reward than Lubba falling if Hungry Luma is at max size.

Aside from the sort of “tech chase” going on in this throw, this throw is very useful as it lets you directly send a foe to one of your black holes and perform set-up while having a foe grabbed. If Lubba already has projectiles circling around a planet powered by black holes, this also lets you directly transfer a foe into that.

LUBBA UP THROW – INTO ORBIT

Lubba spins everything in his gravitational field (if synched to him) around himself through the Z plane in a 3D circle, including the foe, before launching them all upwards. Whatever was positioned directly above Lubba in his gravitation field will be launched first, following by everything else in a clockwise pattern. This deals 5%, but KOs as quickly as Mewtwo’s uthrow, which this has a very similar animation to.

The main purpose of this throw aside from KOing is to get the foe to be knocked into other objects in your gravitational field. If the foe’s at a higher percent, you’ll want the objects to be thrown first so the foe’s high knockback will enable them to be launched through them. If the foe’s at a lower percent, the minimal knockback they take will enable them to be pelted by objects behind them. Having a few projectiles on the opposite side is still nice to give a few objects for the foe to dodge.

Since the foe is no longer in the grab, if Hungry Luma was in the gravitation field but hasn’t latched onto the foe yet, he will not do so during this throw. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as it can enable him to attack the foe, more easy if he’s launched above them to just use dair or something. If there were a bunch of projectiles being launched at the foe from the throw, Hungry Luma can use his nair to inhale them to cause more of them to hit the foe than would normally. If he was already latched onto the foe, Hungry Luma’s bthrow can have a similar effect, but this will take longer to do since that means Hungry Luma will take longer before he is able to act.

LUBBA DOWN THROW - SMUSH

Lubba goes to sit on the foe like the infamous Brawl Dedede dthrow, immediately dealing 7%. The foe isn’t immediately dealt knockback from this, and instead they are pinned under Lubba as he rubs his buttocks against the ground to attempt to squish them. There’s a reason Lubba is the only Hungry Luma who wears pants! This deals an additional 6 hits of 1% during a very long animation before the foe is sent away with vertical knockback that kills at 200%.

This throw is notable because of the long animation. While the damage is Lubba’s best on his throws, if Hungry Luma was latched onto the foe/underneath Lubba he will get smashed into the ground like in Lubba’s dair during this, preventing him from doing additional damage. This isn’t entirely negative and can be used to Lubba’s advantage if he uses it strategically, of course, as detailed in the dair. The long animation can enable star bits from Neutral Special that were sent flying at Lubba to easily reach him without taking up Lubba’s valuable time. If Lubba is fatter, the damage will still be multiplied at the same rate to make the throw deal up to 1.5x the damage in total (19.5%), but the duration of the throw will also be increased by up to 1.5x to even further emphasize the point of this throw.

This can also delay the foe long enough for a projectile a long ways away to reach the foe, most obviously the usmash meteor. While it’s already very, very nice to pin a foe while waiting for the meteor to crash, this is even more encouraged because the terraforming of the meteor will free Hungry Luma from his pitfall inside the stage.

If this throw is used with a projectile underneath Lubba in his gravitational field, they will get hit by that projectile, not getting knocked out of the throw in the case of star bits. The object will get crushed under Lubba before the foe, causing star balls to explode into pieces and all of the bits of it to fly up into Lubba for him to eat them automatically. Meteors will explode without hurting the foe either, but will terraform the ground underneath Lubba. This will lengthen the throw even further and boost the damage of the initial plop on the foe by 7% before Lubba resumes the rest of the foe. These are useful potential effects, though if you want to actually try to hit the foe with these bigger objects you’ll be wanting to use your uthrow or pummel. It is vaguely possible for the explosion of a meteor to be big enough to hit the foe with dthrow if you had enough momentum on the meteor and quickly used dthrow, but this will cause Lubba to continue his dthrow animation on nothing (Perhaps maybe poor Hungry Luma) as the foe gets sent flying, not the best tactic anyway.

STANDARDS

JAB – SHOOTING STARS

Lubba holds up one arm and spins it around, creating 6 star bits per second above himself that shoot down towards the ground which deal the usual 1% and flinching. The star bits are spawned randomly in a Wario sized area above and behind Lubba before being shot down to the ground at 45 degree angles, landing in front of him. The star bits spawn very quickly, and as soon as one hits something a new one will form, potentially enabling it to spawn more than 6 per second if it hits a foe as the star bits spawn. The position of the hitboxes and their trajectories make this much more potent on a slope or a planet, used on a foe behind you and still punishing foes who attempt to roll in front of you.

This isn’t much of a projectile, but if Lubba is big this will be forced to have a long projectile range, especially if he fires them down slopes. It is difficult to consume star bits made by this attack if your characters aren’t desynched, though if Lubba is already fatter it’s easier to cancel out of the move and take a step forward to eat them before they hit the ground. Hungry Luma will perform the attack alongside Lubba, though he can only create 3 star bits per second. If Hungry Luma is in a gravitational field, it’s quite likely one of the character’s star bits will spawn inside of the other one to eat instantly, though this is much slower than Neutral Special if you have the time for it.

DASHING ATTACK – BELLY FLOP

Lubba collapses forward in a comedic Dedede dashing attack with identical power, though the move is even more absurdly laggy. Hungry Luma will do the same thing, but will slide farther and have the move come out faster than Dedede’s version. Hungry Luma’s belly flop deals a token 4% and flinching, able to stun foes for the big man to plop down. If Hungry Luma reaches 1.5-2x size, his version will instead deal 12-15% and knockback that kills at 150-130%, knocking the foe out of the way of the almighty Lubba but providing foes two powerful hitboxes to dodge.

If this is used on a sloped surface from Lubba’s terraforming, this becomes a keep dashing dash attack. Lubba/Hungry Luma can hold A to slide down the slope for as long as the slope goes. Less fat characters will slide down more quickly, though their increased size will compensate to make them slide down at basically the same speed anyway. All this means is that Hungry Luma will slide significantly faster than Lubba, making way for his glorious arrival on top of foes. Lubba/Hungry Luma can release A to come out of this instead of sliding all the way to the bottom. Fatter characters take longer to get up and require the player to release A for a few more frames, enabling you to have the lighter character get up while the fatter one continues sliding.

If this is used on a planet, the whole thing will be considered a sloped surface, enabling Lubba to slide what would essentially be forever. To prevent it from looking too stupid, Lubba/Hungry Luma will be forced out of this after sliding a maximum of 2 platforms, but this can still enable them to circle a normal planet. The lighter character already acts as an annoying object to dodge while the real threat comes in, but a planet enables them to potentially travel in opposite directions for further chaos, nevermind constantly circling star bits. Hungry Luma can outrun star bits circling a planet in its gravity at minimum size, while Lubba can trail behind it – even just a single star bit can be very useful just to generically stun the foe.

FORWARD TILT – STAR SHOT

The fat star character goes horizontal before flying forwards a bit less than a platform’s distance, dealing 8% and knockback that kills at 170%. This comes out very fast, though the duration’s a bit weirdly long. If your characters are synched, only the fatter one will perform the move while the other one will ride the character being shot forwards. This enables them to use their ground moveset while standing on top of the other character, though if they move at all they will exit this “grounded” state and fall off. Foes cannot stand on Lubba/Hungry Luma. This lets you have something of a “DACUS” with your entire grounded movesets, and gives you a nice move to only very temporarily desynch your characters before the resynch at the end of the move if you don’t want to commit to that.

Some of Lubba’s grounded moveset has new applications when moving like this. Usmash is given some automatic height to power up the move. If dsmash is input by the rider, the character on bottom will stop going forwards and perform dsmash, launching the other character into the air with great force. Some of the momentum from the ftilt will still be in tact, causing the riding character to be launched at something of an angle. Jab will do a great job of covering a retreat, and you can potentially go into the trajectory of the star bits to eat them after they fall down. If nothing else, this functions as a decent way to charge fsmash and usmash in relative safety.

This move gets a lot more appealing if Hungry Luma is the fatter of the two characters, as that will make Lubba the rider, giving you access to specials other than Side Special. If Lubba grabs Hungry Luma out of this move with Down Special, Hungry Luma will circle around Lubba for the remainder of the ftilt’s distance as Lubba falls off of Hungry Luma. If Hungry Luma was already in a Gravitational Field when ftilt was input and Hungry Luma was the fatter character, Lubba will actually manage to ride Hungry Luma as he flies around in a circle, able to use his grounded movesets at bizarre angles. The weirdest move Lubba can use like this is usmash, as it can potentially spawn inside the stage and terraform immediately. The meteor is more powerful when it hits the stage, so this has relevance beyond terraforming, and can hit grounded opponents as Lubba uses Hungry Luma to get into an evasive position. Ftilt can also be used to fly off the stage, so this can have uses for abusing the foe as they attempt to make it to the ledge.

UP TILT – STARRY SKIES

Lubba swings his stubby arm above himself in an arch, distorting the air above himself and causing any foes there to take 4% and be pushed upwards with knockback that kills at 155% with fairly high base knockback. This is fast enough to serve as Lubba’s main antiair, as while his usmash can be used as a quick move, the minimum range makes it a bad move defensively.

This will launch any projectiles in Lubba’s Gravitational Field above Lubba, serving as a direct way to launch them without having to put them into a black hole, having to grab the foe, or eating them. They will be launched directly away from Lubba, enabling you to launch them either at a 45 degree angle, straight up, or anything in-between. Not a very exciting move after the rest of this very extensive moveset, but it adds some basic functionality to Lubba’s mechanics. Lubba can use this move to launch the projectiles in the Gravitational Field at other angles, if he wishes, by making use of the ftilt + Down Special combo. If the Gravitational Field was synched to a planet instead of Lubba, having it be Lubba’s height away from the planet can enable him to use this move more effectively with it.

Hungry Luma will not be launched by the utilt. His hitbox is much the same as Lubba’s, just with a smaller hitbox and KOing at 225%. If Hungry Luma is synched to Lubba, he will provide an extra level of defense to the move for a foe who manages to dodge the main hitbox. Given Hungry Luma is much shorter than Lubba if not very fat, his hitbox will be inside Lubba’s hurtbox. Positioning Hungry Luma at various points in the Gravitational Field can enable you to launch different sets of projectiles in it at different angles without having to painstakingly make use of the ftilt. If you don’t want Hungry Luma to interfere, keeping him synched to Lubba will make Hungry Luma’s hitbox not hit anything in the gravitational field unless he’s very fat, in which case his hitbox will just be almost identical to Lubba’s normal one anyway.

DOWN TILT – LAZING ABOUT

Lubba’s crouch has him lay on his back, staring up at the sky. He does not face the camera like when Dedede does during his crouch, enabling him to get significantly lower to the ground than he is normally when his normal idle has him floating over the ground. For his dtilt, he levitates back up to his normal height while staying horizontal before immediately crashing back down into his crouch, dealing 9% and knockback that kills at 150%. This can enable Lubba to evade attacks quite well as he greatly moves his hurtbox. Hungry Luma deals 7% and knockback that kills at 165%, but given his smaller size is even more likely to evade an attack – even if the foe hits Lubba it’s doubtful Hungry Luma will also get hit.

If a character uses this while riding the other one in ftilt, they will home in the slam on the one they’re riding in order to stay synched. If you do an upside down ftilt with Down Special, this will enable you to use the move upwards. Crouching in general when the other character is using ftilt is quite useful, as when both characters are horizontal even when combined their hurtboxes are fairly small by heavyweight standards.

When Lubba or other characters with similar crouches like Dedede crouch on a slope (not a planet), they will slide down it at the speed of Ganondorf’s dash. This alone is useful, but what makes it stand out from the dashing attack is the ability to stop in the middle of sliding before resuming with the dtilt.

FINAL SMASH – STARSHIP MARIO


The starship Mario appears in the background and rams past the stage 2 seconds later, roughly three quarters as large as the main stage. Anybody hit by the planet is dealt 20% and knocked onto it, and the planet has a gravity radius that reaches out 1.5 Ganondorfs from itself. If anyone is hit by it or pulled in by the gravity, they will be pulled along with it as the stage transitions to a version of the Starship Mario. Starship Mario has gravity comparable to planets created by Hungry Lumas, as you are able to walk around the planet and it has a small pull of gravity in towards itself. Any foes you brought with you are yours to attack for 15 seconds.

The appeal of the Final Smash for Lubba is there’s a horde of Lumas on this new stage. There will be 3 additional Hungry Lumas that will respond to Lubba’s inputs. Only 1 Hungry Luma can be synched to Lubba at a time, but he can change which one is synched to him. When the Final Smash ends, he will take his current Hungry Luma back with him to the main stage, so make sure you’re synched to the fattest one. If a Hungry Luma goes to form a planet during the Final Smash, they will leave the Starship Mario and go make a planet on the main stage where it will actually be useful.

There are 4 regular Lumas in addition to the Hungry Lumas. These Lumas will also respond to your inputs, but use their moveset from Rosalina. 2 of them will be yellow and 2 of them will be blue. If either of them are fed 15 star bits, they will transform into a launch star/pull star based off their color. If a foe is knocked into a launch star, they will be launched towards the nearest blast zone with 10% and knockback that kills at 100%. If Lubba inputs Up Special next to a Launch Star, he can launch himself out of it as far as Rosalina’s recovery, but in any direction and without entering helpless.



Pull stars will extend out a beam to any foes who come within a Ganondorf of themselves, and if they hit they will pull foes in and restrain them with grab difficulty. If Lubba inputs Up Special within this range of a pull star and is not overlapping a black hole or a launch star, the pull star will pull him into itself for a free recovery.

Lumas won’t respawn during the Final Smash unless Lubba somehow runs out of Hungry Lumas. Lubba can feel free to fire his Neutral Special for largely the entire duration of the Final Smash when he has so many desynched Lumas and Hungry Lumas to protect him, turning them into useful constructs.

If Lubba had any black holes present on the main stage and makes one during the Final Smash, if he goes through it he will leave the Starship Mario stage and go back to the main stage. The camera will stay on Starship Mario and let you continue controlling the Luma army while Lubba remains invulnerable. Lubba can still come back if he wants to by inputting Up Special to come back through that black hole if the foe doesn’t destroy it. This does prevent you from using Lubba’s Neutral Special during the Final Smash, but this is a nice option if Lubba is at a very high percentage, as him dying will end the Final Smash early.

PLAYSTYLE SUMMARY

Lubba is a character that largely benefits from infinite set-up, so it is very tempting to use the majority of his moveset in a defensive context. He has plenty of tools for running away and preparing his set-up, and planets/slopes only enable him to do that better. The main thing, of course, is splitting the characters up and trying to get them to cover each other (fair epitomizes this), or just force the foe to hunt you down one at a time. Lubba’s most important commodity is of course star bits, and while it is dangerous to make Lubba a big combo target at low percentages, sometimes it can be smarter to give it to him than Hungry Luma in case he dies before passing it on to a Hungry Luma later when you have plenty of star bits. In any case, you generally want to keep all of the star bits in one of the two characters, as having the other one be small will enable them to much better protect the fat one, this is encouraged by the moveset as several of Lubba’s moves perform better with big size differences between them anyway. Lubba will also want to get fat sooner than later in order to make slopes on the main stage, and he can still give them to Hungry Luma later for a planet. Gravitational Field is the most safe way for Lubba to “store” projectiles forever, doubling them as a constant defensive barrier that the foe has to out-prioritize or run up to and shield, but runs the risk of you losing them more than just consuming them.

Once you have a planet, that’s a very safe place to “store” star bits without having to have them directly invested into one of your characters as they spin around the planets. Having a black hole on the main stage and on the planet easily enables you to store them there regardless of your location, though you’ll have to send one of your characters there eventually to collect them. It’s a lot easier to play keep away and split up in the context of a planet, though it also provides the chance to use your two characters for full offensive potential. Planets are where Lubba will want to stay when he’s at a high percentage, potentially terraforming into the planet to be even harder to kill.

Lubba can be played offensively, most prevalent in the grab-game and on planets, and there’s too much potential in this moveset to really cover it properly in a playstyle section. Lubba can very easily use his star bits as offensive power later on when he’s accumulated enough, powering up his moveset and making tons of massive fsmash star balls. When Lubba’s defensive options are this good, though, it’s too easy to just provoke the foe into attacking before going all out on them. While Neutral Special has a second long delay, it has infinite range, and the delay can sometimes be outright preferable as it enables it to control space even more powerfully as one of the best moves in the game. The nature of neutral special makes it very difficult for foes to properly do their own set-up, and during that time Hungry Luma can be battering the foe as well. Of course, if Lubba’s doing this it means he can’t be shooting star bits at himself or performing other set-up himself, though it’s possible for Hungry Luma to eat up some of them if he’s pressuring the foe.
 
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Tocaraca2

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
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Wokingham
So I guess you guys either didn't read my latest set or you just can't be bothered to give any feedback at all or even tell me to finish it??! I said that I wanted to get it out by Christmas Day, I did, and I said that I will finish it after I have been given feedback on the existing stuff, so I can edit it and finish with it being the best quality. But the one time somebody commented feedback on sets recently, where's Akullotsoa? NOWHERE!
EDIT: It seems as if I never mentioned this in the set itself, so I was wrong, sorry.
Anyone got any ideas for an Up Special? ;-;
 

ϟPlazzapϟ

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
95
So I guess you guys either didn't read my latest set or you just can't be bothered to give any feedback at all or even tell me to finish it??! I said that I wanted to get it out by Christmas Day, I did, and I said that I will finish it after I have been given feedback on the existing stuff, so I can edit it and finish with it being the best quality. But the one time somebody commented feedback on sets recently, where's Akullotsoa? NOWHERE!
EDIT: It seems as if I never mentioned this in the set itself, so I was wrong, sorry.
Anyone got any ideas for an Up Special? ;-;
I know it must be hard for you to not get any response on somthing you worked hard on but be patient, maybe it's beacuse the set isn't completely finished and thus not fully review-able, or maybe people are currently busy with other stuff. MYM requires a bit of patience, after all it takes place on a forum
 
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Tocaraca2

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
557
Location
Wokingham
I know it must be hard for you to not get any response on somthing you worked hard on but be patient, maybe it's beacuse the set isn't completely finished and thus not fully review-able, or maybe people are currently busy with other stuff. MYM requires a bit of patience, after all it takes place on a forum
Well, it has been nearly 2 weeks since I posted the set.

Still, anyone got any ideas for Up Special? ;-;
I guess Kanine Leap will have to do...

Munomario777 Munomario777 I just read your Ganon 2.0, it's a great set and I rate 8/10.
You didn't include Air Trac-
Just kidding. Anyway, in all seriousness, I feel like this Ganon would be good in Smash.
The things I don't like are... uh...
You say 'this move has quite a lot of start/end lag' but don't actually say how much. I can't gather much from this. I'm not asking you to include super-specific frame data, but at least tell us how much lag it actually has.
And while the current Up Air is fine, why didn't you change it to the uppercut from his old Up Special? I would have loved to have seen that as an attack, it would have great range and would be reasonably fast, I think that giving Ganon a combo/juggle too like that is not the way to go with the set as it goes against his playstyle, same thing wih you making Down Tilt a combo starter. But I love the fact that you can make combos with his Up Special portals.
Fully charged Side Smash KOs at only 60%? WTF? Warlock Punch used to KO at 30%! This move is not strong enough IMO.
Down Smash, you said that it KOs at 90%, is this non-charged or fully-charged?
Forward Air is a sword slash in an arc. Which direction does he swing? I'm guessing downwards, like Marth's, but you didn't say.

I thought that his Side Tilt was called Sparta Kick not Warlock Kick...
And I don't really mind about Forward Throw but that's a bit lazy, just making it the same as his Side Tilt, don't you think?
These are nitpicky things, and while it may annoy you that I focused on pointing out just them, the flaws annoy me. Maybe because of my mild autism, IDK.

Also, great job at ripping off Peach's glide :)
If you fix all of these things I would rate 10/10, however I don't know whether you would care since it isn't a recently made set and you already made more after it. I thought Dead Man's Volley was yellow and not purple but whatever, it would look good being purple anyway. It's a nice move and I would see potential in it if it was actually in SSB, similar to Samus' standard missiles but more powerful. How much range does it have?
 
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Munomario777

Smash Master
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MODERATORS DO NOT INFRACT ME I DID NOT MEAN TO DOUBLE POST I'M SORRY DON'T KILL ME PLEASE ;-;
It's too late... :demon:
Munomario777 Munomario777 I just read your Ganon 2.0, it's a great set and I rate 8/10.
Thanks! c:
You didn't include Air Trac-
Just kidding.
Anyway, in all seriousness, I feel like this Ganon would be good in Smash.
The things I don't like are... uh...
You say 'this move has quite a lot of start/end lag' but don't actually say how much. I can't gather much from this. I'm not asking you to include super-specific frame data, but at least tell us how much lag it actually has.
I did tell you. A hypothetical moveset such as this doesn't need specific timing details for every move -- a simple "this attack is slow/fast" often suffices, gets the idea across.
And while the current Up Air is fine, why didn't you change it to the uppercut from his old Up Special? I would have loved to have seen that as an attack, it would have great range and would be reasonably fast, I think that giving Ganon a combo/juggle too like that is not the way to go with the set as it goes against his playstyle, same thing wih you making Down Tilt a combo starter. But I love the fact that you can make combos with his Up Special portals.
Wouldn't an attack with "great range" that's "reasonably fast" be a "combo/juggle too[l]" too? Being a heavyweight doesn't mean that you can't have combos or juggles, or at least one fast aerial so you don't get murdered in midair.
Fully charged Side Smash KOs at only 60%? WTF? Warlock Punch used to KO at 30%! This move is not strong enough IMO.
It's a forward smash now, not an attack that you'll almost never hit with like the Warlock Punch was. KOing at 60% is still extremely powerful.
Down Smash, you said that it KOs at 90%, is this non-charged or fully-charged?
a set 20% of damage and vertical knockback that KOs at about 90%
As in, set knockback; as in, it doesn't scale with charge. That is rather odd (I might consider changing it), but it was also pretty clearly stated in the set's write-up.
Forward Air is a sword slash in an arc. Which direction does he swing? I'm guessing downwards, like Marth's, but you didn't say.
swings the sword in a wide horizontal arc.
I thought that his Side Tilt was called Sparta Kick not Warlock Kick...
It doesn't have an official name; that's just what the fans dubbed it.
And I don't really mind about Forward Throw but that's a bit lazy, just making it the same as his Side Tilt, don't you think?
Eh, kinda. It can be a pretty useful tool for Ganon to have, though.
These are nitpicky things, and while it may annoy you that I focused on pointing out just them, the flaws annoy me. Maybe because of my mild autism, IDK.
In general, it's not the best idea to write comments filled with nitpicky things, since they often don't really improve the set that much, compared to if you had addressed an actual decently-sized issue with the set.
Also, great job at ripping off Peach's glide :)
Peach has a float, Ganon (in LOZ) has a float. I see nothing wrong with this.
If you fix all of these things I would rate 10/10, however I don't know whether you would care since it isn't a recently made set and you already made more after it. I thought Dead Man's Volley was yellow and not purple but whatever, it would look good being purple anyway. It's a nice move and I would see potential in it if it was actually in SSB, similar to Samus' standard missiles but more powerful. How much range does it have?
It doesn't exactly have a limit on how far it can go -- its weakness is more how easy it is to dodge/block/hit back.
 

Tocaraca2

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
557
Location
Wokingham
It's too late... :demon:

Thanks! c:

I did tell you. A hypothetical moveset such as this doesn't need specific timing details for every move -- a simple "this attack is slow/fast" often suffices, gets the idea across.

Wouldn't an attack with "great range" that's "reasonably fast" be a "combo/juggle too[l]" too? Being a heavyweight doesn't mean that you can't have combos or juggles, or at least one fast aerial so you don't get murdered in midair.

It's a forward smash now, not an attack that you'll almost never hit with like the Warlock Punch was. KOing at 60% is still extremely powerful.


As in, set knockback; as in, it doesn't scale with charge. That is rather odd (I might consider changing it), but it was also pretty clearly stated in the set's write-up.



It doesn't have an official name; that's just what the fans dubbed it.

Eh, kinda. It can be a pretty useful tool for Ganon to have, though.

In general, it's not the best idea to write comments filled with nitpicky things, since they often don't really improve the set that much, compared to if you had addressed an actual decently-sized issue with the set.

Peach has a float, Ganon (in LOZ) has a float. I see nothing wrong with this.

It doesn't exactly have a limit on how far it can go -- its weakness is more how easy it is to dodge/block/hit back.
Horizontal like Ike's Side Tilt? That's not an arc. An arc is like Marth's Up Tilt. Unless you're talking about an arc that you can't clearly see is an arc, in which case don't call it an arc, just call it a horizontal swing from left to right (or vice versa).
No, KOing at 60% fully charged is not extremely powerful and is just as hard to hit as Warlock Punch was, in fact it's even harder because it doesn't have super armour, you can't reverse it and you can't use it in the air. I believe Warlock Punch had around the same start lag as the time it takes to fully charge a smash attack.

Down Smash not scaling with charge makes it useless to charge at all. And does it still break shields? :p
 

Munomario777

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Horizontal like Ike's Side Tilt? That's not an arc. An arc is like Marth's Up Tilt. Unless you're talking about an arc that you can't clearly see is an arc, in which case don't call it an arc, just call it a horizontal swing from left to right (or vice versa).
...
No, KOing at 60% fully charged is not extremely powerful and is just as hard to hit as Warlock Punch was, in fact it's even harder because it doesn't have super armour, you can't reverse it and you can't use it in the air. I believe Warlock Punch had around the same start lag as the time it takes to fully charge a smash attack.
60% is extremely powerful -- it's as powerful as, well, a fully charged smash attack. It's not harder to land, since you don't have to charge it -- you can use it uncharged, with the same lag as his old fsmash.

Also, the Warlock Punch's startup is about 10 frames (1/6 of a second) longer than the maximum charge time for a smash attack.
Down Smash not scaling with charge makes it useless to charge at all. And does it still break shields? :p
The set damage/knockback is only for the explosion; the leg's damage scales with charge. And no, it wouldn't break a full shield, based on a shield's health (which is greater than the damage that this attack deals).
 

Tocaraca2

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...

60% is extremely powerful -- it's as powerful as, well, a fully charged smash attack. It's not harder to land, since you don't have to charge it -- you can use it uncharged, with the same lag as his old fsmash.

Also, the Warlock Punch's startup is about 10 frames (1/6 of a second) longer than the maximum charge time for a smash attack.

The set damage/knockback is only for the explosion; the leg's damage scales with charge. And no, it wouldn't break a full shield, based on a shield's health (which is greater than the damage that this attack deals).
Even fully charged? :(
I know what 10 frames is in seconds, considering that I use frame data in my sets. And no, Warlock Punch does not have more than 2 seconds of start lag. It has considerably less in fact.
"It's not harder to land, since you don't have to charge it -- you can use it uncharged"
A fully charged smash attack is pretty hard to land.
 

Munomario777

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Even fully charged? :(
I can't tell what you're actually replying to.
I know what 10 frames is in seconds, considering that I use frame data in my sets. And no, Warlock Punch does not have more than 2 seconds of start lag. It has considerably less in fact.
...it only takes one second to charge a smash attack.
"It's not harder to land, since you don't have to charge it -- you can use it uncharged"
A fully charged smash attack is pretty hard to land.
That's kinda the point.

Anyway, for the sake of not cluttering the thread, I'mma stop replying.
 

Tocaraca2

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I can't tell what you're actually replying to.
Volcano Kick breaking shields.
I thought it took 2 seconds to charge a smash attack.
Also if the point of the move KOing at 60% fully charged is because it's hard to land, then there's not enough reward for landing it. If this attack is based off of Warlock Punch then it should be about the same strength as Warlock Punch IMO.
And also, talking about Up Air and the uppercut of Dark Dive, what I mean when I said 'it would be reasonably fast' is that it would have quite low start lag. I could imagine it having a solid 0.8 seconds of end lag.

How is this cluttering up the thread? There's nothing wrong with a discussion on this thread. It's not only for posting movesets, it's also for commenting on them and debating things about them.
You guys take the quality of this thread too seriously. The sets should be good but the comment section doesn't have to be organised.
 

Tocaraca2

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Starting a new post just so people get an alert, since I would like to inform everyone that I have finished Akullotsoa! Feedback would be appreciated. :)
And moderators, this is not an infractable double-post. I have no other way of alerting anyone, since editing doesn't count as a new reply to this thread.
 

FrozenRoy

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Captain Toadie

It's probably a bit random for me to comment on this set of all, but I was reading Akullotsoa and then scrolled down to read this and thought I'd have some helpful advice. Welcome to MYM by the way, WeirdChillFever!

The #1 thing I'd like to discuss is that your damage %s are generally very low, most notably on the Smashes: Down Smash sounds like the strong KO/damage move, however the damage is around half of what one might expect, especially since the 5% hitbox KOs only 10% less than the 10% hitbox, similiarly the Forward Smash has really small damage and could be even doubled easily, Up Smash is more fine but still probably a bit low for the 120% KO power it has. The non-Up Tilt moves also are low in damage and in general the entire set is rather low in damage. This moveset sometimes misses critical information, like the damage of the jab and pummel. Another severe issue with this set is that it overuses a wide variety of props, which too often involve Captain Toad not actually attacking and instead something suddenly happening, which often doesn't feel connected to much (Forward Tilt, Down Tilt, Neutral Aerial, Down Aerial etc), I would have liked to see Captain Toad use more pickaxe-based attacks and other adventuring gear-y seeming stuff and the like, it breaks the immersion/flow of the set to me. I feel like better props would be to give him explorer's gear-esque stuff: Imagine if he had a grappling hook, that he could use to grab onto his minecart and platforms, or grab onto enemies, or a shovel or what have you. He IS an explorer, after all!

What I did like about this set was the specials, though, which made a pretty solid foundation for a set: With just four moves, there was some rather nice flow, and you could do some interesting stuff with it, though I would have liked another way to use them, like a Snake Down Smash-esque trap or something to put in your minecarts/propellor platforms, and I would have allowed two Turnip Turrets out at once (Maybe make it so they can hurt each other so opponents can turn them against each other and up the power some?). Also, the propeller platforms probably need some kind of anti-stalling measure, like only being able to make X propeller platforms before landing on real ground (To keep Captain Toad from just repeatedly making a Propeller Platform when one dies and standing on it until they die).

All in all, not a bad starter's effort, but it's not really all that good either. I hope you'll make more, at least.

Meet the Thunderman's

Metres Per second is still not a good measurement, it's still completely pointless to use it over a Stage Builder Block if you proclaim 1 Metre = 1 SBB, but beyond that the moveset has issues moving the # right. 2.3 MPS as a dash speed, AFAIK, would be slower than even Ganondorf, which the rest of the moveset suggests is certainly not intended. The moveset itself isn't even consistant on this, swapping between Metres and SBB seemingly at random during the moveset. Frames are used in this moveset as a measurement, but often are so specific it's hard to do much aside from nitpick and word filler (Dash Attack) and some of them are totally out of whack (Forward Smash has absurdly low ending lag and fairly quick start-up on a powerful move, making it stupidly OP. The grab wishes to be a "slower grab" yet it comes out on Frame 7, when direct comparison Lucas comes out on Frame 12, AND Akullotsoa's also deals damage just for hitting! On the flipside, Dash Attack is randomly long/laggy but has absurd quick start-up) and even that is consistant, with things suddenly being described in seconds ("This move has 14 frames of start lag and 1.1 seconds of end lag after he starts releasing ice, when used both on the ground and in the air."). This leads to a moveset that is inconsistant and annoying in how it throws out stats and which often throws out stats which are meaningless or actively cause balance issues.

The statistic section includes stats for "Ground Mobility" and "Air Traction", two meaningless stats: What does Ground Mobility MEAN when you have Dash Speed and Walk Speed? Do you mean traction? And characters don't have traction in the air! Do you mean aerial control? I wonder why Akullotsoa's sword can be knocked out when nobody else's can, but I might be willing to accept this...if it mattered more in the set, as various times the losses are not stated, at least one move is situationally BETTER, and despite meaning to be a big part of the moveset (as the Playstyle section attests), it feels like little more than a footnote. Also, your Final Smash does less damage than Forward Smash while seemingly lacking KO power. Uh?

Neutral Special is terrible balance-wise, a 4 second stun like that (which is actually a 5 second stun due to the 1 second of hitstun) is horrendous balance and far beyond a standard Smash stun, and the only way it is remotely "balanced" is by making it almost impossible to happen, ensuring that this move either is useless as it does little without the stun or stupidly overpowered because the stun can actually happen is absurd. Up Special is randomly cloned from Alica Vessin, which isn't necessarily the worst (Many characters take spin on other char's Up Special, see all the Marth USpec variations)...but why bring it up to people and draw attention to it? Side Special feels lame when its just a big version of the littler Ice Spheres anyway? Putting the Specials earlier might help the perception, but the Ice Spheres are still used in overabundance given the # of changes + similiar attacks (Dash Attack and Up Aerial) that it becomes much less fun in the playstyle, too many ways to use it, too little in options from having it be so easy, Frost Breath has this issue either.

This moveset has little playstyle, the playstyle suggests going sword moves for combo, but a lot of his attacks play more like a heavyweight with strong damage, with or without the sword! You also imply that top tier is not balanced, which is a rather silly statement to make (not all top tiers are balanced, but nor are all top tiers imbalanced, all top tier means is that they're near the top of the game in power level). Down Smash/Special are not very clear on tripping opponents: Is it automatic? Is it a % chance like ice, what? Bizarre descisions like the Jab plague this moveset, where Akullotsoa makes an Ice Sphere that travels a decent distance only to make it disappear for no reason if he continues the jab combo. For some reason, Akullotsoa's tilts are laggier than his Up Smash/Forward Smash, doing little to help with any combo playstyle within the tilts. The fact that Down Tilt turns the sword into an item and back again with no apparent animation will be annoying for players and the fact he MUST taunt to turn it from an item when he grabs it is annoying, as Akullotsoa will probably want it in non-item form anyway, and if he doesn't he'd usually rather choose it then. Oddly specific sweetspots like Down Aerial pop up, but with little weaving into the moveset. Akullotsoa's get-up attack is hilariously laggy for what it is and judging from how Frost Breath works otherwise doesn't serve the job that a getup attack should.

This last bit is less about Smash and more as a writer-to-writer talk: Akullotsoa comes off as fairly incompetent in the moveset and backstory, as he somehow manages to muck up an assassination of a random normal cat so badly they gain super powers (and why would you only use one bomb?), has his own powers work against him multiple times (you'd think that his claws would be able to dig into things despite being icy, especially since it doesn't sound like he's constantly slipping and sliding or anything) and is seemingly unable to control his powers and unlike other characters, he can't even hold onto his sword properly enough to not have it get punked out of him. These facts don't make me think "The showdown is going to be immense.", but that he's kind of a rube and questionable assassin. I have no idea if this was the intention (the intro certainly doesn't make it sound so, but side taunt implies it may be), but regardless of if it is or isn't, you may want to find a way to be a bit more clear in how you want your OCs come off.
 

ϟPlazzapϟ

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Metres Per second is still not a good measurement, it's still completely pointless to use it over a Stage Builder Block if you proclaim 1 Metre = 1 SBB, but beyond that the moveset has issues moving the # right. 2.3 MPS as a dash speed, AFAIK, would be slower than even Ganondorf, which the rest of the moveset suggests is certainly not intended. The moveset itself isn't even consistant on this, swapping between Metres and SBB seemingly at random during the moveset. Frames are used in this moveset as a measurement, but often are so specific it's hard to do much aside from nitpick and word filler (Dash Attack) and some of them are totally out of whack (Forward Smash has absurdly low ending lag and fairly quick start-up on a powerful move, making it stupidly OP. The grab wishes to be a "slower grab" yet it comes out on Frame 7, when direct comparison Lucas comes out on Frame 12, AND Akullotsoa's also deals damage just for hitting! On the flipside, Dash Attack is randomly long/laggy but has absurd quick start-up) and even that is consistant, with things suddenly being described in seconds ("This move has 14 frames of start lag and 1.1 seconds of end lag after he starts releasing ice, when used both on the ground and in the air."). This leads to a moveset that is inconsistant and annoying in how it throws out stats and which often throws out stats which are meaningless or actively cause balance issues.
Hopefully this doesn't come off as rude or annoying but this is exacly why MYM'ers tend to keep things simple when it comes to measurements, it's easier to picture a dedede using his laggy f smash with context clues such as "dedede heaves up his mighty hammer" than "taking about 20 frames to do so, Dedede raises up his hammer". Sure if we all understood how mps and frames fully worked than I guess it whould be more excusable but without using contexts like that the moveset has less personality and is thus less fun to read and envison as an actual moveset.
 

Tocaraca2

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Meet the Thunderman's

Metres Per second is still not a good measurement, it's still completely pointless to use it over a Stage Builder Block if you proclaim 1 Metre = 1 SBB, but beyond that the moveset has issues moving the # right. 2.3 MPS as a dash speed, AFAIK, would be slower than even Ganondorf, which the rest of the moveset suggests is certainly not intended. The moveset itself isn't even consistant on this, swapping between Metres and SBB seemingly at random during the moveset. Frames are used in this moveset as a measurement, but often are so specific it's hard to do much aside from nitpick and word filler (Dash Attack) and some of them are totally out of whack (Forward Smash has absurdly low ending lag and fairly quick start-up on a powerful move, making it stupidly OP. The grab wishes to be a "slower grab" yet it comes out on Frame 7, when direct comparison Lucas comes out on Frame 12, AND Akullotsoa's also deals damage just for hitting! On the flipside, Dash Attack is randomly long/laggy but has absurd quick start-up) and even that is consistant, with things suddenly being described in seconds ("This move has 14 frames of start lag and 1.1 seconds of end lag after he starts releasing ice, when used both on the ground and in the air."). This leads to a moveset that is inconsistant and annoying in how it throws out stats and which often throws out stats which are meaningless or actively cause balance issues.

The statistic section includes stats for "Ground Mobility" and "Air Traction", two meaningless stats: What does Ground Mobility MEAN when you have Dash Speed and Walk Speed? Do you mean traction? And characters don't have traction in the air! Do you mean aerial control? I wonder why Akullotsoa's sword can be knocked out when nobody else's can, but I might be willing to accept this...if it mattered more in the set, as various times the losses are not stated, at least one move is situationally BETTER, and despite meaning to be a big part of the moveset (as the Playstyle section attests), it feels like little more than a footnote. Also, your Final Smash does less damage than Forward Smash while seemingly lacking KO power. Uh?

Neutral Special is terrible balance-wise, a 4 second stun like that (which is actually a 5 second stun due to the 1 second of hitstun) is horrendous balance and far beyond a standard Smash stun, and the only way it is remotely "balanced" is by making it almost impossible to happen, ensuring that this move either is useless as it does little without the stun or stupidly overpowered because the stun can actually happen is absurd. Up Special is randomly cloned from Alica Vessin, which isn't necessarily the worst (Many characters take spin on other char's Up Special, see all the Marth USpec variations)...but why bring it up to people and draw attention to it? Side Special feels lame when its just a big version of the littler Ice Spheres anyway? Putting the Specials earlier might help the perception, but the Ice Spheres are still used in overabundance given the # of changes + similiar attacks (Dash Attack and Up Aerial) that it becomes much less fun in the playstyle, too many ways to use it, too little in options from having it be so easy, Frost Breath has this issue either.

This moveset has little playstyle, the playstyle suggests going sword moves for combo, but a lot of his attacks play more like a heavyweight with strong damage, with or without the sword! You also imply that top tier is not balanced, which is a rather silly statement to make (not all top tiers are balanced, but nor are all top tiers imbalanced, all top tier means is that they're near the top of the game in power level). Down Smash/Special are not very clear on tripping opponents: Is it automatic? Is it a % chance like ice, what? Bizarre descisions like the Jab plague this moveset, where Akullotsoa makes an Ice Sphere that travels a decent distance only to make it disappear for no reason if he continues the jab combo. For some reason, Akullotsoa's tilts are laggier than his Up Smash/Forward Smash, doing little to help with any combo playstyle within the tilts. The fact that Down Tilt turns the sword into an item and back again with no apparent animation will be annoying for players and the fact he MUST taunt to turn it from an item when he grabs it is annoying, as Akullotsoa will probably want it in non-item form anyway, and if he doesn't he'd usually rather choose it then. Oddly specific sweetspots like Down Aerial pop up, but with little weaving into the moveset. Akullotsoa's get-up attack is hilariously laggy for what it is and judging from how Frost Breath works otherwise doesn't serve the job that a getup attack should.

This last bit is less about Smash and more as a writer-to-writer talk: Akullotsoa comes off as fairly incompetent in the moveset and backstory, as he somehow manages to muck up an assassination of a random normal cat so badly they gain super powers (and why would you only use one bomb?), has his own powers work against him multiple times (you'd think that his claws would be able to dig into things despite being icy, especially since it doesn't sound like he's constantly slipping and sliding or anything) and is seemingly unable to control his powers and unlike other characters, he can't even hold onto his sword properly enough to not have it get punked out of him. These facts don't make me think "The showdown is going to be immense.", but that he's kind of a rube and questionable assassin. I have no idea if this was the intention (the intro certainly doesn't make it sound so, but side taunt implies it may be), but regardless of if it is or isn't, you may want to find a way to be a bit more clear in how you want your OCs come off.
I will work on these issues.

I'm not going to stop using MPS as a unit of speed. It is the easiest way to imagine the speed, and it's easier than saying SSBs Per Second, and I'm not comparing it to other characters because I don't know the exact speed of many of them.

Switching from Frames to Seconds randomly is definitely a problem. I will fix that.

I've realised that I have been a bit mindless while talking about the backstory to Akullotsoa. I guess he's more of a bounty hunter than just an assassin, and the people who gave him the job to kill Alica would not have expected her to survive, so Akullotsoa didn't really muck up since it was the fault of his master who gave him the operation. Only 1 bomb would be needed to kill her, right? And even if it didn't directly hit her, the forest would set fire and she would die. It was a miracle that she survived.
"he can't even hold onto his sword properly enough to not have it get punked out of him"
That's the point. In real life people's swords get knocked off them easily, and while SSB isn't real life, my OC sets are designed to be more accurate than others in terms of how they play. If you cut somebody in half with a sword they aren't going to be launched away are they, but if you kick them then they are. This is present in Akullotsoa's moveset by the fact that his sword strikes have high hitlag and low knockback, whereas the kicks and claw swipes have more knockback.
The Ice Spheres aren't at all realistic but oh well.
"Akullotsoa makes an Ice Sphere that travels a decent distance only to make it disappear for no reason if he continues the jab combo"
Um... it doesn't. If you got the impression that it does, then I will edit the description to make it clearer.
 

Reiga

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I'm not going to stop using MPS as a unit of speed. It is the easiest way to imagine the speed, and it's easier than saying SSBs Per Second, and I'm not comparing it to other characters because I don't know the exact speed of many of them.
Hey, it's not like a listing of the dash speed of all of the characters in Brawl (plus other stats) is linked in the OP, not to mention that there's probably not a single listing of SSB4's Dash Speed on some sort of "Super Smash Bros Wiki", nah, that'd be stupid.
 

Munomario777

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I'm not going to stop using MPS as a unit of speed. It is the easiest way to imagine the speed, and it's easier than saying SSBs Per Second, and I'm not comparing it to other characters because I don't know the exact speed of many of them.
Well clearly you don't know the exact speed of MPS values either, because when you try to give Akullotsoa a fast dash, you make him slower than Ganon.

How is saying SSBs per second so much harder than saying meters per second? And how are either of them better than saying X character's dash?

Also:
Now start measuring speed in a way that anyone (including you) actually understands, for the good of all of us. except the ones who are dead ♪
"he can't even hold onto his sword properly enough to not have it get punked out of him"
That's the point. In real life people's swords get knocked off them easily, and while SSB isn't real life, my OC sets are designed to be more accurate than others in terms of how they play. If you cut somebody in half with a sword they aren't going to be launched away are they, but if you kick them then they are. This is present in Akullotsoa's moveset by the fact that his sword strikes have high hitlag and low knockback, whereas the kicks and claw swipes have more knockback.
The Ice Spheres aren't at all realistic but oh well.
Doing realistic stuff with your set isn't inherently bad; up to a certain extent, all movesets should have it. But you utterly fail at it here and make it all feel wrong, for one reason: inconsistency.

You try to be realistic, yet you have fire cats and ice wolves. Why can't this wolf hold his sword when he gets knocked a mere "meter" back, but Cloud keeps his if he gets launched all the way across Palutena's Temple? And why does he have a perfect grip whenever he's attacking, but he drops his sword whenever he so much as flinches? Why do you attempt to be super-realistic in Smash Bros., where realism is all but thrown out the window? Why do ice wolf's sword swings not launch people very far, whereas a simple swing from say, Lucina's sword can send them flying? In short, it's the Sonic '06 problem (lol, "the" Sonic '06 problem): trying to mix realism and cartoon aesthetics, resulting in inconsistencies, confusion, and... other bad stuff.

Bottom line: When adapting something to Smash, think about the tone and logic of Smash. Do people lose their swords in Smash? No. So does it make sense for this particular character to randomly lose his sword? No.
 
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Tocaraca2

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You try to be realistic, yet you have fire cats and ice wolves. Why can't this wolf hold his sword when he gets knocked a mere "meter" back, but Cloud keeps his if he gets launched all the way across Palutena's Temple? And why does he have a perfect grip whenever he's attacking, but he drops his sword whenever he so much as flinches? Why do you attempt to be super-realistic in Smash Bros., where realism is all but thrown out the window? Why do ice wolf's sword swings not launch people very far, whereas a simple swing from say, Lucina's sword can send them flying? In short, it's the Sonic '06 problem (lol, "the" Sonic '06 problem): trying to mix realism and cartoon aesthetics, resulting in inconsistencies, confusion, and... other bad stuff.
Having ice wolves and fire cats is different to having trees that fall upwards. You're saying that all realism is thrown out of the window, which is wrong. There is at least a bit of realism in every game.
The fact that you don't accept Akullotsoa's sword swings not dealing much knockback proves that I have made a terrible moveset and I should **** off from MYM.
 

Munomario777

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Having ice wolves and fire cats is different to having trees that fall upwards. You're saying that all realism is thrown out of the window, which is wrong. There is at least a bit of realism in every game.
Yes, but people losing their swords when they're hit isn't one of the "bits of realism" that Smash has. (See the "bottom line" of my previous post.)

The part about realism being "all but thrown out the window" was hyperbole.
The fact that you don't accept Akullotsoa's sword swings not dealing much knockback proves that I have made a terrible moveset and I should **** off from MYM.
I don't have a problem with it inherently, it just irks me that your only reason is "realism." If there was an actual playstyle reason, or if the low-knockback swings did something to really differentiate him (like Marth's tipper), then great, I'm all for it. But using "realism" as the sole reason to do something isn't always the best route to go down. That may not be exactly what you had in mind, but "realism" isn't the first reason you should tell people in order to justify a decision in a Smash Bros. moveset.
 

FrozenRoy

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"I'm not going to stop using MPS as a unit of speed. It is the easiest way to imagine the speed, and it's easier than saying SSBs Per Second, and I'm not comparing it to other characters because I don't know the exact speed of many of them."

Obviously it is not the easiest way to imagine speed, otherwise everyone wouldn't keep telling you how much less easy it was for them.

""he can't even hold onto his sword properly enough to not have it get punked out of him"
That's the point. In real life people's swords get knocked off them easily, and while SSB isn't real life, my OC sets are designed to be more accurate than others in terms of how they play. If you cut somebody in half with a sword they aren't going to be launched away are they, but if you kick them then they are. This is present in Akullotsoa's moveset by the fact that his sword strikes have high hitlag and low knockback, whereas the kicks and claw swipes have more knockback.
The Ice Spheres aren't at all realistic but oh well."

Designing the OCs to be super realistic is odd when they are a bipedal ice manipulating wolf in a universe with a quadrupedal, sentient cat who somehow got superpowers from nearly being exploded. But even then, that's besides the point.

The point is that you don't DO anything with it. You can't, say, use created ice to slide your sword along the ground faster, increasing damage and knockback at an increased risk of losing your sword. Or, say, a leaping dash attack where if his sword is in the way, he'll grab it and automatically perform a sweeping slash. There's no cool special ways to save your sword or get it off the foe, there's no cool item manipulation that works with your sword as an item, the moveset's moves show no awareness of using items like it in any way to create a deep playstyle. This is where the problem is. You want to give him a knock-offable sword? That's fine...but DO something with it! If you can't, then it's just pointless.

""Akullotsoa makes an Ice Sphere that travels a decent distance only to make it disappear for no reason if he continues the jab combo"
Um... it doesn't. If you got the impression that it does, then I will edit the description to make it clearer."

Your description of the jab currently makes him create an ice sphere and then has it disappear when he continues his jab, ya, it'd be good to fix it.
 

ChaosKiwi

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Ratings updated soon, new set posted soon.

The fact that you don't accept Akullotsoa's sword swings not dealing much knockback proves that I have made a terrible moveset and I should **** off from MYM.
That's not what it proves at all, but feel free to leave the contest. Ever since you joined last year you've done nothing but complain when people don't think your movesets are the second coming of Christ. Accept criticism, move on, and grow. If you can't do that, you aren't mature enough to be a part of any group. This contest already has damn low standards when it comes to decorum, and you're somehow failing to meet all of them.
 
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Tocaraca2

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Wokingham
Ratings updated soon, new set posted soon.



That's not what it proves at all, but feel free to leave the contest. Ever since you joined last year you've done nothing but complain when people don't think your movesets are the second coming of Christ. Accept criticism, move on, and grow. If you can't do that, you aren't mature enough to be a part of any group. This contest already has damn low standards when it comes to decorum, and you're somehow failing to meet all of them.
I'm not complaining. Give me an example of me complaining.

Yes, but people losing their swords when they're hit isn't one of the "bits of realism" that Smash has. (See the "bottom line" of my previous post.)

The part about realism being "all but thrown out the window" was hyperbole.

I don't have a problem with it inherently, it just irks me that your only reason is "realism." If there was an actual playstyle reason, or if the low-knockback swings did something to really differentiate him (like Marth's tipper), then great, I'm all for it. But using "realism" as the sole reason to do something isn't always the best route to go down. That may not be exactly what you had in mind, but "realism" isn't the first reason you should tell people in order to justify a decision in a Smash Bros. moveset.
Akullotsoa loses his sword when the sword is hit, not just when he is hit, and it can only be knocked off him when he uses a move that uses the sword as a hitbox. So basically, all of his sword moves are high risk, high reward moves, but in a different way to everyone else.
The swings deal low knockback so they are good for combos. I don't feel like the amount of realism I am implementing in this is above the amount that is present in SSB, or at least not to a high extent. The sword moves can still KO, just not nearly as early as the sword moves.
"Bottom line: When adapting something to Smash, think about the tone and logic of Smash. Do people lose their swords in Smash? No. So does it make sense for this particular character to randomly lose his sword? No."
I disagree, I think that it is unique and makes the character more diverse.

"I'm not going to stop using MPS as a unit of speed. It is the easiest way to imagine the speed, and it's easier than saying SSBs Per Second, and I'm not comparing it to other characters because I don't know the exact speed of many of them."

Obviously it is not the easiest way to imagine speed, otherwise everyone wouldn't keep telling you how much less easy it was for them.

""he can't even hold onto his sword properly enough to not have it get punked out of him"
That's the point. In real life people's swords get knocked off them easily, and while SSB isn't real life, my OC sets are designed to be more accurate than others in terms of how they play. If you cut somebody in half with a sword they aren't going to be launched away are they, but if you kick them then they are. This is present in Akullotsoa's moveset by the fact that his sword strikes have high hitlag and low knockback, whereas the kicks and claw swipes have more knockback.
The Ice Spheres aren't at all realistic but oh well."

Designing the OCs to be super realistic is odd when they are a bipedal ice manipulating wolf in a universe with a quadrupedal, sentient cat who somehow got superpowers from nearly being exploded. But even then, that's besides the point.

The point is that you don't DO anything with it. You can't, say, use created ice to slide your sword along the ground faster, increasing damage and knockback at an increased risk of losing your sword. Or, say, a leaping dash attack where if his sword is in the way, he'll grab it and automatically perform a sweeping slash. There's no cool special ways to save your sword or get it off the foe, there's no cool item manipulation that works with your sword as an item, the moveset's moves show no awareness of using items like it in any way to create a deep playstyle. This is where the problem is. You want to give him a knock-offable sword? That's fine...but DO something with it! If you can't, then it's just pointless.

""Akullotsoa makes an Ice Sphere that travels a decent distance only to make it disappear for no reason if he continues the jab combo"
Um... it doesn't. If you got the impression that it does, then I will edit the description to make it clearer."

Your description of the jab currently makes him create an ice sphere and then has it disappear when he continues his jab, ya, it'd be good to fix it.
Firstly, I would like to tell you that my first intention was that with Down Special, the ice will have a 100% chance of tripping the opponent. This is OP and I will change it to 50%.
He isn't meant to be super realistic, just, a bit more realistic than other fighters.
Take, for example, Little Mac. He is the most realistic fighter in the game, being the most accurately portrayed character and having a lot of the traits that a boxer would in real life.
This doesn't make him more realistic than unrealistic though. The same goes for Akullotsoa, his sword moves act more like they would in real life than other characters, but they can still KO.
I find MPS easy to imagine speed when I am creating movesets. Would you be fine with me using BPS (Blocks Per Second)?

The thing about me and my creation of movesets is that when I make a moveset and publish it, it's probably going to be really bad. Of course, when anyone creates a moveset it's not going to be perfect at first. But I have a more severe case with that.
It may be because I am only 14, unlike you guys who seem to be older than me.
On a side note, it's my birthday today! I was only 13 yesterday.

I am going to change the Dash Attack to a move that helps him get his sword back, I am also going to make his grab automatically catch the sword, if it is within a 1.5 block radius. Other characters will not be able to do this, they will have to use a normal method of grabbing items.

Coming back to the point someone made about his smashes being faster than his tilts, that is intentional, at least it is with his Side Tilt.
I also just came up with an idea; if Akullotsoa's sword is in item form, Down Tilt will stick it into the ground. If the opponent tries to pick it up, they will go through a rather laggy process of pulling it out of the ground, in which Akullotsoa can attack them and knock it off them, then grab it himself.
 

FrozenRoy

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"I find MPS easy to imagine speed when I am creating movesets. Would you be fine with me using BPS (Blocks Per Second)?"

This would be easier for me, personally. I can't really visualize well what a metre is in Smash when I read it but I can visualize a block, even if they're the same (Mostly because my mind constantly has to convert metre into block into size). You can also imagine MPS and then write it in a different format. I should note that from what I understand from actual Smash stats (Jamie helping out here and Muno some too), your MPS stats were off, so you may want to consider that.

"It may be because I am only 14, unlike you guys who seem to be older than me."

Yes, most of us are. I am 21 going on 22 in a month. Happy birthday.

"Coming back to the point someone made about his smashes being faster than his tilts, that is intentional, at least it is with his Side Tilt."

His smashes are almost universally stronger and faster than his tilts, not just Forward Tilt. This is problematic for balance.

"The swings deal low knockback so they are good for combos."

One issue with this is that most of the sword moves didn't sound like they had low knockback to me. Also, it would make more sense for swords to do more knockback than claws to me.
 

Munomario777

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Akullotsoa loses his sword when the sword is hit, not just when he is hit, and it can only be knocked off him when he uses a move that uses the sword as a hitbox. So basically, all of his sword moves are high risk, high reward moves, but in a different way to everyone else.
The swings deal low knockback so they are good for combos. I don't feel like the amount of realism I am implementing in this is above the amount that is present in SSB, or at least not to a high extent. The sword moves can still KO, just not nearly as early as the sword moves.
If his sword moves deal low knockback, then how are they high risk, high reward (particularly the latter part)? Other than that though, a'ight.
"Bottom line: When adapting something to Smash, think about the tone and logic of Smash. Do people lose their swords in Smash? No. So does it make sense for this particular character to randomly lose his sword? No."
I disagree, I think that it is unique and makes the character more diverse.
It's not just a matter of being "unique;" it's a matter of contradicting the unspoken rules that every other Smash fighter follows. Being unique is all well and good, but you should do so in a way that y'know, makes sense. It doesn't make sense that Akullotsoa can lose his sword, but when you try attacking Marth's, your attacks just clash (or the stronger attack wins out if it's 9% more and whatnot). There's no reason for Akullotsoa to be the "special case." And while I could excuse it if the implementation was interesting; as FRoy pointed out, you don't do anything with it. It's a weakness that exists purely to be a weakness, and justified by being "realistic." I suggest either making it worth having, or removing it.
He isn't meant to be super realistic, just, a bit more realistic than other fighters.
Take, for example, Little Mac. He is the most realistic fighter in the game, being the most accurately portrayed character and having a lot of the traits that a boxer would in real life.
This doesn't make him more realistic than unrealistic though. The same goes for Akullotsoa, his sword moves act more like they would in real life than other characters, but they can still KO.
The thing about Mac is, most of his "realism" is within Smash's rules. Sure, boxers aren't great at fighting in the air, and sure they might have lots of willpower (super armor) and whatnot, but those also exist elsewhere in Smash.

A real boxer would lose his arm if a sword chopped it off, but Mac doesn't, because it's Smash. A real swordfighter would probably lose his sword if a professional boxer punched it out of his hand, but Marth doesn't, because it's Smash.
I find MPS easy to imagine speed when I am creating movesets.
Then I take it it was intentional to give Akullotsoa one of the slowest dash speeds in the game?

Seriously, look at this image and measure 2.3 SBB/second. (Each block is a SBB, of course.)

I highly suggest switching to another format, for both accuracy and readability's sake. It's a lot easier to compare a speed to another speed that already exists in the game.
On a side note, it's my birthday today! I was only 13 yesterday.

I am going to change the Dash Attack to a move that helps him get his sword back, I am also going to make his grab automatically catch the sword, if it is within a 1.5 block radius. Other characters will not be able to do this, they will have to use a normal method of grabbing items.
That's a start to what I was talking about earlier -- it makes it manageable. Now I'd suggest giving him some ways to use his sword as a throwing item for combos and stuff -- some item play, y'know?
Coming back to the point someone made about his smashes being faster than his tilts, that is intentional, at least it is with his Side Tilt.
Why, though? What purpose does that serve? It's another case of being unique for the sake of being unique (and going against Smash's fundamental logic in the process).
I also just came up with an idea; if Akullotsoa's sword is in item form, Down Tilt will stick it into the ground. If the opponent tries to pick it up, they will go through a rather laggy process of pulling it out of the ground, in which Akullotsoa can attack them and knock it off them, then grab it himself.
Now we're talkin'. That's a pretty neat idea, a little bait-and-punish. It might not be best on down tilt, though -- maybe dtilt is a downwards stab into the ground, but you can hold the button to embed it as a trap? (A simple tap wouldn't stick it in the ground, making it useful as a normal attack when you don't want to stick it into the ground).
 

Tocaraca2

Smash Ace
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Wokingham
If his sword moves deal low knockback, then how are they high risk, high reward (particularly the latter part)? Other than that though, a'ight.

It's not just a matter of being "unique;" it's a matter of contradicting the unspoken rules that every other Smash fighter follows. Being unique is all well and good, but you should do so in a way that y'know, makes sense. It doesn't make sense that Akullotsoa can lose his sword, but when you try attacking Marth's, your attacks just clash (or the stronger attack wins out if it's 9% more and whatnot). There's no reason for Akullotsoa to be the "special case." And while I could excuse it if the implementation was interesting; as FRoy pointed out, you don't do anything with it. It's a weakness that exists purely to be a weakness, and justified by being "realistic." I suggest either making it worth having, or removing it.

The thing about Mac is, most of his "realism" is within Smash's rules. Sure, boxers aren't great at fighting in the air, and sure they might have lots of willpower (super armor) and whatnot, but those also exist elsewhere in Smash.

A real boxer would lose his arm if a sword chopped it off, but Mac doesn't, because it's Smash. A real swordfighter would probably lose his sword if a professional boxer punched it out of his hand, but Marth doesn't, because it's Smash.

Then I take it it was intentional to give Akullotsoa one of the slowest dash speeds in the game?

Seriously, look at this image and measure 2.3 SBB/second. (Each block is a SBB, of course.)

I highly suggest switching to another format, for both accuracy and readability's sake. It's a lot easier to compare a speed to another speed that already exists in the game.



That's a start to what I was talking about earlier -- it makes it manageable. Now I'd suggest giving him some ways to use his sword as a throwing item for combos and stuff -- some item play, y'know?

Why, though? What purpose does that serve? It's another case of being unique for the sake of being unique (and going against Smash's fundamental logic in the process).

Now we're talkin'. That's a pretty neat idea, a little bait-and-punish. It might not be best on down tilt, though -- maybe dtilt is a downwards stab into the ground, but you can hold the button to embed it as a trap? (A simple tap wouldn't stick it in the ground, making it useful as a normal attack when you don't want to stick it into the ground).
It was not intentional to make Akullotsoa slow as ****. I think I'm probably just going to change his speed to a value out of 10, probably 6, same thing with Alica Vassin.
"It's a weakness that exists purely to be a weakness, and justified by being "realistic." I suggest either making it worth having, or removing it."
That's exactly the point of this feedback. The fact that you even suggest me removing it is absurd as it is obvious that I have it in there to affect the playstyle, so yes I will do something more with it.
Throwing the sword to combo as well as just using sword moves is an amazing idea! I will implement this, especially as it fits the property of the sword being good for combos and dealing damage.
I think you misunderstand the thing with the Smash Attacks being quicker than the Tilts. Side Tilt is more powerful than his smashes in terms of KO power, so it is intentional for it to be slower. It is not intentional for the smashes to be more rewarding than the tilts, though, I will fix that. Especially with Up Tilt since that is supposed to be quick.
I have to go to bed now. I will reply tomorrow. :)
 

Munomario777

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It was not intentional to make Akullotsoa slow as ****. I think I'm probably just going to change his speed to a value out of 10, probably 6, same thing with Alica Vassin.
Sweet!
"It's a weakness that exists purely to be a weakness, and justified by being "realistic." I suggest either making it worth having, or removing it."
That's exactly the point of this feedback. The fact that you even suggest me removing it is absurd as it is obvious that I have it in there to affect the playstyle, so yes I will do something more with it.
Glad to hear. (The part about you adding stuff, that is.)
Throwing the sword to combo as well as just using sword moves is an amazing idea! I will implement this, especially as it fits the property of the sword being good for combos and dealing damage.
Nice. And maybe once he throws his sword at a foe, it bounces back in his direction so he can catch it again? That'd be a really cool dynamic. (And perhaps a grab input in midair item-ifies the sword.)
I think you misunderstand the thing with the Smash Attacks being quicker than the Tilts. Side Tilt is more powerful than his smashes in terms of KO power, so it is intentional for it to be slower. It is not intentional for the smashes to be more rewarding than the tilts, though, I will fix that. Especially with Up Tilt since that is supposed to be quick.
But the thing is, it seems odd for the ftilt and fsmash to be reversed in function -- tilts are basic attacks, and smashes are stronger attacks as a general rule in Smash. There can be exceptions, but it comes off as unnecessary unless there's some reason for their roles to be swapped.
I have to go to bed now. I will reply tomorrow. :)
'Night! o/
 

ChaosKiwi

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ChaosKiwi
I'm not complaining. Give me an example of me complaining.
It'd be easier to find a post where you aren't complaining tbh. But, word to the wise, threatening to leave because you don't like the criticism counts as complaining.

I'm bored and this set is taking actual effort, so tonight I'm gonna post a big review block. Prepare to clench.
 

ϟPlazzapϟ

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
95
"It may be because I am only 14, unlike you guys who seem to be older than me."

Age doesn't nessisarily equal skill or maturity nessisarily, I too happen to be 14 and Im actually kinda glad It's acceptable to be in the twenties range in MYM, I honestly want to continue MYMing until it's bitter end. It doesn't really seem like that though considering I've been inactive this entire contest aside from putting actual effort into my first set and rushing an HMA set to get it in time for the Iron MYM's deadline, next contest will be my true introduction so pretend I didn't exist in this contest :p

Anyways I can slowly see you opening up to others criticism Tocaraca, while I do agree Chaoskiwis' comment was harsh, it was also true. I really dont think you should leave though, keep MYMing and you're bound to make some great sets and some good friends as well.
 

FrozenRoy

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This was supposed to be posted on the 1st, but due to a variety of reasons, I only got to posting it today (Though as my rankings and making comments shows, I've been getting more active in MYM again. Yay!). So, what's this post all about? Well, the Iron MYMer competitions aren't over, even if I did miss a month (I'm gonna be better next contest about this, as I hope anyway).

And it is a new year, after all, so we need a new theme...new...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Yes, new. That will do. The secret theme is...

New Year, New Sets, New Franchises!​

So, what does that mean? Pretty simple, really. All you need to do is make a set for a franchise you haven't made a set for before! I don't feel that needs much explanation: Never made a Legend of Zelda set? Make a LoZ set, it qualifies! You've made a Mario set? Then your set for Baby Bowser won't qualify! Generally speaking, side series are also just counted under the main franchise (IE I couldn't make a set for a Hearthstone-only card and proclaim it isn't under the Warcraft banner), but for franchises with significant differences exceptions may be made (SMT/Persona comes to mind). Feel free to ask me about this!

Oh, and Real Life/Original Characters all count under one header, so even if your OCs are in other 'verses, they won't be counted. Likewise, a set for Tim Tebow doesn't count when you've made Randy Johnson before.

Sets posted from the 1st on will be retroactively counted and this Iron MYMer will continue until the end of the contest. Now go forth and give us a contest end to remember!

Oh, and User Rankings? Since it's so close to the end, I plan to post them on Feb 1st. So you won't know just how far you're behind until then...better pad yourself up some before it's all over!
 

Reiga

He sold diddy for a switch
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Tocaraca2

Smash Ace
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This was supposed to be posted on the 1st, but due to a variety of reasons, I only got to posting it today (Though as my rankings and making comments shows, I've been getting more active in MYM again. Yay!). So, what's this post all about? Well, the Iron MYMer competitions aren't over, even if I did miss a month (I'm gonna be better next contest about this, as I hope anyway).

And it is a new year, after all, so we need a new theme...new...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Yes, new. That will do. The secret theme is...

New Year, New Sets, New Franchises!

So, what does that mean? Pretty simple, really. All you need to do is make a set for a franchise you haven't made a set for before! I don't feel that needs much explanation: Never made a Legend of Zelda set? Make a LoZ set, it qualifies! You've made a Mario set? Then your set for Baby Bowser won't qualify! Generally speaking, side series are also just counted under the main franchise (IE I couldn't make a set for a Hearthstone-only card and proclaim it isn't under the Warcraft banner), but for franchises with significant differences exceptions may be made (SMT/Persona comes to mind). Feel free to ask me about this!

Oh, and Real Life/Original Characters all count under one header, so even if your OCs are in other 'verses, they won't be counted. Likewise, a set for Tim Tebow doesn't count when you've made Randy Johnson before.

Sets posted from the 1st on will be retroactively counted and this Iron MYMer will continue until the end of the contest. Now go forth and give us a contest end to remember!

Oh, and User Rankings? Since it's so close to the end, I plan to post them on Feb 1st. So you won't know just how far you're behind until then...better pad yourself up some before it's all over!
Is this compulsory?
 

Reiga

He sold diddy for a switch
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Is this compulsory?
If you mean if it's manditory to participate, then no, participating in the Iron MYMer will only give you more points for that set in the User Rankings and of course have you post a moveset in a cool theme, but you don't have to post an Iron MYMer set to be able to vote or be votable or anything.
 

FrozenRoy

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"A failed apprentice makes for a foolish master!"

Count Dooku


Count Dooku, also known as Darth Tyranus, was a Sith Lord who lived during the era of the Galactic Empire and the Clown Wars, functioning as an antagonist during the 2nd and 3rd Star Wars prequel movies. He was taken in at a young age and trained as a Padawan under Yoda's tutelage, eventually rising to the rank of Jedi Master himself and taking Qui-Gon Jinn as his apprentice. However, he would eventually willingly leave the Jedi Order, feeling corruption in the Order and Government. Approached by Darth Sidious, he fell to the Dark Side with an offer of power to change the Galaxy, forming the Seperatists and, well...begun, the Clone Wars had. Ultimately, Sidious' interest in Anakin Skywalker as his apprentice would lead Tyranus to be disposed of casually, executed by Anakin.

Count Dooku was trained in Form II of lightsaber combat, Makashi. An extremely duelist oriented lightsaber style, it relied on highly technical skill, positioning and fleet footwork, with heavy elements of balance and economy of movement. Count Dooku was a master at this and despite using a style based heavily on one-on-one combat, could easily take as many as four Jedi opponents on using his skill, seperating them and executing perfectly to strike back and Dooku was also a master of feinting to create attacks of oppourtunity. Desptie being a Sith Lord, Dooku favored emotional levelheadedness, tactical knowledge and control rage in a fight, making him a rather unique and calm Sith. Dooku's skill with a lightsaber was considered only second to Yoda and equal to Mace Windu. Makashi is weak to stronger power attacks and although Dooku was able to defeat many power fighters in his time, this would contribute to his death by Anakin Skywalker's hands. Count Dooku greatly disliked the saber toss technique, feeling that a lightsaber should never leave a proper Jedi or Sith's hand, and favored Force telekinetics and Force Lightning in combat.

In combat, Dooku used the Force to create attacks of opportunity for his lightsaber and for swift, sometimes more sudden movements, favoring telekinetic force powers and force lightning. Dooku was noticeably low key with the force compared to some of his opponents, but displayed the ability to suddenly turn his powers to extreme levels, often using them as a sudden brute force tactic which he would sometimes counter power fighters with. As Dooku wielded his lightsaber with one hand often, this left his other hand free to utilize multiple Force tricks, giving him an edge in combat. Despite this, Dooku never displayed exemplary skill such as extremely unique Force talents or potent moves, perhaps being a reason Darth Sidious looked to replace him.


Statistics

"He's very aloof, very self-contained, obviously completely fearless. He is extremely intelligent, perhaps more so than almost anyone else. He's obviously a man of immense power. I don't suppose that the question of moral values enter into his head. He's not immoral -- he's amoral. Morality is a word that doesn't figure in his vocabulary at all. It's power. Which is something that exists very much in our world today."

Count Dooku is a figure of reasonable tallness, with size similiar to a fellow, fencing-esque Swordsman: Marth. His weight is roughly average for a human and thus is pretty much average among the cast, placing him in the Sonic/Ness area. Although a Sith and a Force user, Dooku relies more on agility than raw speed, and his ground speed only reaches about the level of Pit's, which is slightly above average. His traction, however, is the best in the game.

Aerially, Count Dooku possesses impeccable air control, with solidly average air speed, and is somewhat floaty, but not to an extreme. Dooku's first jump goes quite high, while his second jump is above average, and he possesses a weak wall jump.


The Power of the Dark Side


"Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I sense in you."
"I've become more powerful than any Jedi. Even you."

Count Dooku enters each match with a red Force Meter above his Damage Percentage. As Dooku strikes his opponent and successfully defends against them, this bar builds, up to a maximum of 100%. Although Dooku may use the Force at any time, using moves which utilize only the Force at 100% will cause them to enter an overdrive state, draining Dooku's Force meter but making the move significantly more powerful or otherwise better. In addition, Dooku may tap a second button (B for Specials and A for non-specials) on some moves to perform a second, Force related effect, at the cost of some of his Force Meter, with the amount being specified in each move.

Dooku statically generates 3% of the Force Meter by performing any damaging attack, meaning that if Dooku and the foe are just posturing, he can still gain an advantage. However, Dooku gains significantly more of his Force Meter by striking the foe, which adds half of the damage dealt to his Force Meter, encouraging an aggressive playstyle that can also set up surprise combos and approaches with sudden Force enhanced moves. Dooku also statically gains 3% Force Meter when he successfully shields, rolls, sidesteps or air dodges an attack, and gains 6% Force Meter when he Perfect Shields. If Dooku does not successfully strike a foe or shield/dodge an attack during this time, he will lose Force Meter at a rate of 5% per second.

The Force Meter is a critical part of Count Dooku's higher level gameplay: Knowing how much damage you can output to unlock potent Force follow-ups or to utilize a supercharged Force move is important and knowing when to drain your Force Meter to avoid a premature overdriven move is a sign of a Sith Lord in control. One can tell that Dooku is overdriven at a glance, as he will be surrounded by a menacing, red aura.


Specials

"The Sith control everything. You just don't know it."

Neutral Special: Force Pull

Count Dooku takes his free hand and begins to raise it in front of him, levitating the ground in front of him and ripping it from the stage, though like more Brawl-esque moves this does not actively terraform the stage. What happens next depends on if the input was tapped or held. If tapped, Count Dooku will automatically launch the chunk of ground forward as a projectile, smashing into the first person it hits for 14% damage and the ability to KO at around 165%. The ground chunk is about half the height of Ganondorf and a bit thicker than a Battlefield Platform. It travels about 1.33 Battlefield Platforms when thrown. This move's starting lag is rather laggy, however, Dooku can move very quickly afterwards, so it is more about prevention than punishment.

If held down, however, Count Dooku will instead continue to use the Force to hold the ground in front of him after the button is released. While being held in front of Dooku, the ground chunk is treated as a solid object with an HP of 22, which will soak up projectiles and make it difficult for enemies to get in close from the direction the ground chunk is held, often forcing them to break it. By holding down B once more, Count Dooku can also manipulate where the ground chunk is with the Force, moving it at the speed of Dooku himself on the ground, with it able to go a maximum of one Battlefield Platform in either direction and 1.33 Ganondorfs above Count Dooku, with it by default being a single Dooku's width in front of him.

Count Dooku's Force attacks will, naturally, be unaffected by holding a ground chunk for the most part, while Dooku's lightsaber has the ability to cut through it, being...well, a lightsaber and all, not dealing damage to the ground chunk but instead allowing Dooku to attack through it. If the lightsaber slices through it, then it will split the ground chunk logically based on the attack (IE a vertical attack splits it down the middle), causing it to split into multiple pieces when thrown, each slice causing it to divide in half essentially and spread out, each time halving the damage and knockback of the attack but giving it greater, wider coverage. The ground chunk does not turn around with Dooku so, for example, Dooku can summon a ground chunk in one direction, then roll behind the foe and have it protect his backside. While rolling and dodging, the ground chunk leaves the main plane as well and thus does not drag people along, preventing Count Dooku from just roll spamming to push around people.

After 6 seconds or when Neutral Special is just tapped while a ground chunk is active, the ground chunk will fire forwards as if it was used normally, even if Count Dooku is in the middle of attack or hitstun if it is when the timer goes off: This allows the ground chunk to be a surprisingly strong pressure and combo tool if focused on surviving, as it can be thrown out in the middle of lightsaber attacks with proper timing to add more hits, or during moves like your Side Special to keep foes from interrupting powerful moves. If a ground chunk's HP is depleted, it will simply crumble to the ground uselessly. Ground chunks do not function as platforms, so Dooku can't just put one under him to restore jumps or anything.

When Dooku has a full Force Meter, he will instead use both hands to lift up a significantly larger chunk of ground, splitting it into three and having them float around him: One above and one to each side. Each of these have the same 22 HP as a normal chunk and are moved and rotated as one. In addition, however, the duration before being forced to fire these ground chunks is reduced to 4 seconds. Although it can be a bit less precise to move, it offers potentially insane defensive coverage for a shorter period of time, and shooting them all out at once can put out a lot of long range pressure. Splitting them all with your lightsaber may reduce the power, but it also can create a very strong spread, and overall is a powerful use of overdriving.


Side Special: Force Lightning

Count Dooku extends a hand forward with his fingers pointed, shooting out a torrent of lightning out of his fingertips, which lash out over 2 Battlefield Platforms at a decently quick speed. Upon hitting a foe, the lightning will begin shocking them, staying out at max range as it does so and dealing 12% damage over 2 seconds, though it deals absolutely no hitstun or knockback during this time. Count Dooku is also unable to move as the lightning blasts them, and since there is no hitstun, enemies can walk up to Dooku and hit him out of it, or walk out of range, making it a somewhat difficult move to utilize. However, the start-up lag is fairly quick, so Dooku can unleash it with...LIGHTNING speed. Ending lag on the move isn't that bad either. Dooku can cancel this move by hitting B at any time, but that makes the ending lag a good deal worse, so you can't just press B with someone in your face and expect to defend: You gotta do it earlier and predict.

With a full-on Force Meter, though, Count Dooku's damage with this move is increased to 18% over 2.5 seconds (which means the rate of damage is going up too), but it also adds a much more important ability. Specifically, that is the ability to move! Count Dooku gains the ability to move as he torches the foe and space in front of him with his free hand, which also makes the projectile width move with him: Opponent moving away? Move forward to follow them! Dooku is freely able to attack as well, so it's an impressive offensive option as well. Lightning always goes forward, so Dooku has to jump to match people who jump out of it.


Down Special: Force Choke

Count Dooku chuckles lightly, one arm behind his back as his lightsaber stance opens. A movement with low starting lag, anyone who attacks the seemingly open count will have a rude awakening in store, as Dooku flings his free hand forward and grabs the opponent in a brutal force choke, interrupting their attack and lifting them off the ground for this counter. Dooku then chokes the foe for 1.2x the damage that the opponent's attack would have done, after which the opponent slumps to the ground in prone. These process takes a bit, however, and opponent's are able to escape at grab difficulty, which at low damage percentages will naturally be quite easy. When they escape, they obviously don't get put into prone, though like grabs there is a small amount of lag before they can move. The starting lag for this counter move is pretty quick and the counter timing is fairly forgiving, but for a counter it has quite long ending lag, making it punishable for those who don't take the bait.

By tilting the control stick in a direction, Dooku will prematurely end the choking and use the force to throw the opponent in that direction, dealing 1.2x the knockback of the attack that he countered, which is potentially pretty potent since Dooku can choose a knockback direction favorable to him, though the attack is rather vulnerable to DI. In addition, to throw someone, you'll need to forego some damage, since you need to do it before you do all the damage and put them into prone. You can try and wait as long as you can to do the most damage...but then you risk the opponent escaping via grab difficulty. So it's all about risk and reward on what you choose to do.

A full Force Meter turns the Force Choke even more sinister, Dooku uses both of his hands to lift the opponent in the air and turning it into the dreaded Force Drain, sucking out the very life Force of the foe, represented by red, wispy strings of energy flowing from the foe to Dooku. This causes Count Dooku to heal at the same rate that he damages the foe, for the same amount, potentially leading to particularly potent damage differences if Dooku counters a strong move from the opponent. As usual, this can be broken at grab difficulty, so if you want a full and true drain, then you'll need some damage racking on your opponent first...and if they break out, they might just slam you and then negate a lot of your healing. The force throwing part of this move receives a more minor, yet still strong, buff: It instead throws people at 1.4x the strength and the foe is thrown quicker, making it more difficult to properly time your DI.


Up Special: Force Jump

Count Dooku leaps into the air, using the Force to toss him very high, about 3/4ths of the height of King DeDeDe's Up Special. The starting lag is quite low but it has absolutely no hitbox, with there being no traditional ending lag. This is because Count dooku is free to use aerials during this time and that it essentially functions as a normal jump, including not putting Count Dooku into special fall, though he may only Force Jump once without touching the ground naturally. Count Dooku ascends quite quickly, so this move's incredible height can be used for odd 1-2 combos with strong upward launchers.

A full Force Meter does not enhance this move nor auto-drain on use like most moves, in part to avoid the annoyance of having to expend it all to recover in some situations. Instead, Count Dooku may use this move a 2nd time in the air at the cost of a full Force Meter, allowing him incredible recovery ability and bizarre up-the-ladder KO combos by launching them and following up with Force Jump and so on.


Standards


"He is a fencer. Leverage, position, advantage—they are as natural to him as breathing."

Jab: Repulse Strike

Count Dooku raises his lightsaber and then brings it down straight in front of him, ending with the sword vertically in front of his face after a shallow slash. This is a very fast move, fast even for a jab, dealing 7% and decent knockback for a jab, though it is largely base and has dreadful scaling. Ending lag is a bit longer than expected, which since it is a one-hit jab makes trying to remotely chain them together a bit stiff. As this move has somewhat low damage for a single hit jab, it is primarily used as a way to reset the battlefield, putting them in a prime position for a lightsaber approach or force powers.

If the Count clashes with a foe with this move, he does not take the normal awkward clashing lag, but instead takes drastically reduced ending lag compared to the normal jab while the opponent takes normal clashing lag. This leaves the opponent wide open for a follow-up from Count Dooku and usually at good range for him to hit. At bare minimum, this will almost always combo into a second jab for some cheap damage.

If Count Dooku inputs A before unleashing this attack, he will charge the blade with Force energy, which upon impact with the foe will blast outwards as a potent kinetic energy at the point of impact, adding 5% damage and a set knockback of 1 Battlefield Platform. This kinetic energy is still applied upon clashing with a foe, but it instead of immediately pushing the foe back, it applies more slowly, only happening once the opponent finishes their clash lag (or if knocked out of it, when they would normally finish it). This allows Dooku to quickly follow-up with another move on a clashed foe, which the set 1 BFP of knockback will be added to, though it is difficult to use laggy moves before the opponent goes blasting off again.

Makashi, being a lightsaber style with little in deflecting moves, leaves the Count with fewer projectile hate options compared to most Jedi, however his jab is his most reliable of those. Projectiles hit during the slash of the attack are deflected away from Count Dooku, though they will not change ownership, and if Dooku should move or be hit into the projectile, it will still hurt him. So while it is a quick way to protect, it's less effective than a true reflector, and it has a very short duration to hit the projectile with.

In addition, the Force empowered move is treated as having the priority of both a 7% damage dealing move and a 12% damage dealing move, allowing him to clash with moves within 8% damage of either of those, giving him a much wider variety of attacks he can gain a clash advantage against. The force empowered Repulse Strike takes 15% of his Force Meter. Count Dooku's jab does not cut deep inside to cause his ground chunk to split, but will instead simply leave a shallow cut into it: If the ground chunk is then cut into bits by other move, those bits will halve themselves halfway through their flight path, as this small wound compromises the structural integrity of the smaller chunks.


Up Tilt: Rising Sweep

Dooku takes his lightsaber and performs a graceful sweep above him, a quick motion that deals 9% damage and weak, popping-up knockback. This move hits ever so slightly in front and behind due to the wideness of the sweep and serves primarily as an anti-air and an aerial combo launcher for the rest of Dooku's moveset, ultimately a rather simple move to understand but key to allowing his swift, damage-racking melee ground game to transition to the air.

Hitting A at any point during this move causes Dooku to perform a small force leap and perform this move in the air, with a slightly modified animation to account for the difference between air and ground, dealing the same damage and knockback. This can be done at any point during the move and will instantly cancel whatever was left on the move: For example, if your opponent tries to dodge/fake you out with a small hop when you're about to use this move, you can press A to swiftly cancel this by "starting" the aerial version and going through ITS starting lag instead, allowing you to catch them with this hopped one. Hit an opponent with this and you can try to instantly cancel this to catch them with the second attack as they recover from the first...and if they dodged you, then you can try and catch them by using this during your end lag. You cannot do this more than once, so don't expect to just be rising your way off the screen or something.

The above additional attack costs 10% Force Meter, which is rather interesting, as the move deals 9% damage: If Dooku is at max and wants to combo with another force power without overdriving it, this is a good way to leave yourself at 99% for that, or what have you, meaning you can almost certainly do an overdrived one after the regular one. Something to keep in mind.


Down Tilt: Leg Melter

Count Dooku crouches and performs a leg-sweeping slash of his lightsaber, dealing 8% to whomever it hits and causing them to trip if they are hit by the blade and being popped up slightly if they are hit by the hilt. Naturally, tripped opponents cannot be tripped again. Compared to most down tilts, Dooku's down tilt has somewhat cumbersome starting lag, comparable to Link's Down Tilt, but the ending lag is very short, allowing him to put a lot of pressure on opponents when he trips them.

Pressing A again at the start of this move causes Dooku to throw a burst of the Force when he slashes his lightsaber, causing a hitbox that deals half the damage and trips to shoot out about half a Battlefield Platform in front of the lightsaber slash. The hitbox not only trips the opponent, but will cause the opponent to be dragged slightly towards Dooku, specifically to the point of Dooku's lightsaber tip when he slashes. This won't cause them to be hit by Dooku's down tilt, but instead perfectly positions them to be hit by Dooku's follow-up attacks. This takes 20% of Dooku's Force Meter and deals little damage, so if you wish to drain your Force Meter by a good deal, it can be useful for that.


Forward Tilt: Saber Fencing

Count Dooku takes his lightsaber and draws it back before thrusting it forward, shuffling about 1/4th of a Battlefield Platform forward as he does so, dealing 11% damage that will KO at 200%, though it has a somewhat shallow angling to it that can make it more annoying to recover from at times. The saber itself not only has excellent range, but the small shuffle forward extends it even further, giving it great reach. The starting lag on this isn't so bad, slightly faster than average, but for a tilt the ending lag is rather bad, making this a punishable move in exchange for the damage and range.

During the start of this move, you can mash left or right, which will cause Count Dooku to leap in that direction before performing the move (including the shuffle) as normal. This movement is quite quick, though it will add a small amount of starting lag to the move, and goes half the length of his rolls (which are slightly longer than average and slightly less laggy than normal), but will provide no invincibility or anything. This can be effectively used to feint, by showing the move and then retreating, or to even further increase the range by stepping forward, and by dodging an attack before lunging forward this can be used to punish quite effectively.

In addition, by inputting the proper buttons during start-up lag, Count Dooku can instead perform either of his other tilts or his jab, allowing him another option to fake opponents or catch them off guard, such as with his lightning-swift jab. Count Dooku can still leap before the move AND will still shuffe along with the move (Down Tilt's animation is slightly adjusted to accomadate this into more of a walking step down into the swing), allowing the Count to gain increased range on his move and what have you, though this will usually add to the starting lag some and adds a few frames of ending lag to an already punishable tilt.


Dash Attack: Dodging Drill

In one of the few acrobatic moves in the set, Dooku leaps forward off the ground about half a Battlefield Platform and spins around while horizontal, his body dealing 4 hits of 3% as he does so. His lightsaber, which is pointed upwards and thus in front of him, instead deals 4 hits of 5%, making it potentially very strong for a dash attack. The body strike has low knockback and therefor will usually chain together, while the lightsaber deals increased knockback which makes it more difficult to chain, KOing at around 180% on the last hit. This move's starting lag is rather average, but while smooth Dooku's landing and needing to ground himself results in rather high ending lag. Dooku gets rather high into the air while leaping, which prevents him from hitting some low crouching characters, but also allows him to dodge low hitting attacks with proper timing.

During the start, when Dooku is about to leap but before he does, inputs of A, Forward + A, Up + A or Down + A may be inputted, which causes the Count to instead perform a different attack with their own properties. They are as follows.

A: Dooku does not leap but instead firmly plants his feet, stopping all of his momentum and performing a single super fast spin around himself. This only deals 3% damage and has very light knockback, but it is very fast and the ending lag is pretty short, giving Dooku a way to bail on ill advised assaults and a quick, all around coverage move. The attack lasts for very little time though, which can make it a bit hard to hit with.

Forward + A: Dooku firmly grips his lightsaber with both hands and leaps forward about half his normal distance while performing a powerful downward strike of the lightsaber. This deals 16% damage and for Dooku has rather strong knockback, KOing at 135% with decent range, but it has even worse ending lag than the normal Dash Attack and has rather long starting lag.

Down + A: The Count performs a low, sweeping running slash as he travels along the ground, going 3/4ths of a Battlefield Platform: Visually, it is similiar to Marth's dash attack, but more exaggerated in how low Dooku is and a lower swing. This deals 11% damage with rather average ending lag, but the knockback hits foes behind Dooku at an extremely shallow angle, which can lead to follow-ups achievable by few moves in the set: The most obvious is to try and follow up with a Back Aerial, but if Dooku has a ground chunk behind him, he can launch it as they fly past it to pressure them due to their low angle (If they don't jump or otherwise dodge it will hit them due to falling). The knockback will not KO until 220%.

Up + A: Count Dooku performs an upward, rising flipkick-slash as he leaps forward, drastically reducing the horizontal distance he gains while making him travel about 3/4ths Ganondorfs into the air, dealing 10% damage and decent knockback on hit: If Dooku hits a foe with this move, then he will jump off of them slightly, giving him almost no ending lag and allowing him to follow-up as he pleases. If he misses, however, he takes rather large ending lag which will usually end up with him on the ground again, making this a rather heavy risk-reward move.


Smashes

"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."

Forward Smash: Force Push

Count Dooku pulls his hands back before thrusting them open in an open=palmed, gripping motion: If you've seen most Star Wars media, you know the force push-y motion (and if not and the animation confuses you, it IS in that video I linked). This releases a powerful force of kinetic energy, which travels about a Battlefield Platform. The potency of this attack depends on how far it travels and charge: Up close, this attack is at its most potent, dealing 22%-27% damage while KOing at 120%-100%, while at the end of its path, it will deal 8%-12% ability and knockback that only KOs at 240%-200%. The starting lag on this attack is quite long, but the ending lag is a bit shorter than average, as Dooku gets into fighting position quite quickly.

If the Count has a ground chunk in the path of his Forward Smash, it will be launched at very fast speeds but 3/4ths the normal distance, becoming a significantly stronger projectile that KOs at 90% and 22% damage if hit with the closest part of the Push and KOing at 110% while dealing 18% damage if hit with the weakest part of the push: Having the ground chunk at the default range counts as being close enough for the strongest push, to give you an idea.

When put into overdrive with a full Force Meter, this move gets a straight up significant buff to its power, dealing 32%-40% damage while KOing at 90%-75% at the closest point, while dealing 22%-27% damage at the furthest point, making it an extremely potent KO move for the lag you go through. An additional hitbox is added about half of a Battlefield Platform ahead of the normal hitbox which consists of a very light push, dealing 8% damage and knockback that will drag people to the end of the range but can be outdone by dashing for every character, albeit slowly (but this move doesn't last super long, so...). It does not deal hitstun but mostly serves as a way to still get room if you miss the range some, though it can also be an effective gimping tool as the lack of hitstun will cause it not to refresh jumps/helpless.

Ground chunks launched by this souped up Force Push will deal 30% damage and KO at 70% when sent flying at close points, while dealing 23% damage and KOing at 100% if hit with the weaker end part: Ground chunks normally are not in range of the third, additional hitbox due to their maximum range of 1 Battlefield Platform, but they will be unaffected by them if by some arcane spaghetti code they become able to get in range. The ground chunk will also travel the full 1.33 Battlefield Platforms of distance when launched by an overdriven Force Push.

The primary purpose of this move is quite obvious: Dooku lacks KO options outside of this powerful move, so it is vital to him as a finisher, yet it is extremely easy to interrupt and thus is also pretty telegraphed. By comboing with your lightsaber moves and adding the ability to throw ground chunks (you can toss one out BEFORE launching to try and space) or utilizing Force Lightning to pressure foes, you can try and open them up to thise strong finisher.


Down Smash: Seperating Strike

Dooku takes his lightsaber and performs a spin with it held around him, tip down, giving him excellent close-body 360 coverage as he spins about 3 times. Getting hit by Dooku at any point during this will cause you to take 19%-24% damage and moderate knockback that KOs at 150%-130%: The base is a bit low, but it has good knockback growth. This move has decent speed in coming out, but the ending lag is rather bad, making it pretty punishable if he whiffs, and because the lightsaber is pretty close to Dooku it doesn't have amazing range.

Projectiles are automatically reflected while spinning, with Dooku making a lightsaber movement to reflect them, with the projectiles being reflected straight at the nearest foe, with their duration/distance reset and ownership transferred to Dooku. If a ground chunk is close to Dooku, then it will be cut in the middle but not in the surrounding area, causing it to break into two thin projectiles that have the same height as the full ground chunk, deals the same damage as normal and can be chopped up as per normal.

By pressing A during this move or during starting lag, Dooku will end the move with a downward stab, utilizing the Force to draw opponents within half of a Battlefield Platform right next to him while dealing 9% damage. This increaes the ending lag of the already laggy move slightly, but the hitstun on this ability is HEFTY, allowing Dooku to face the foe on relatively even frames despite the Down Smash's intense ending lag. Double tapping this move during the Down Smash will cause him to instantly cancel the spin into this strike, allowing him to potentially catch opponent's off guard, though he CANNOT do this during starting or ending lag, making patience a virtue in the opponent punishing you. With some timing, depending on the foe's damage %, this can actually be used to catch a foe who is flying away from getting hit by the Down Smash, with higher damage %s making this more difficult (they get launched faster) or even impossible. The hitstun from the two moves will stack and leave Count Dooku with a small frame advantage if you can pull this off, giving him stronger options to follow up with. Ground chunks that have been broken down and released in smaller chunks will be drawn into Dooku as well, pelting any opponents in their path for their normal damage.

The Force Meter price on this is quite hefty though, 30%, so you really need to make it count when you use it.


Up Smash: Lightning Storm

Dooku's hands crackle with electricity as he lets out a sinister laugh, raising them to the sky and shooting them above him 1.25 Ganondorfs, striking those it hits for 25%-31% damage, but with a lot less knockback than you'd expect: lightning isn't often seen to send you flying back, after all. It KOs at 180%-220% and has most of its knockback in a high base value, with little scaling. Knockback is largely vertical. This attack has surprisingly long duration, making it a good way to break aerial assaults, but it has somewhat long ending lag on both ends of it, making it punishable, though it is not as punishable on either side as F-Smash's long starting lag or D-Smash's long ending lag. It is also rather wide as an attack as well, going about one Dooku's width to each side of the Count and thus having some left/right coverage as well.

When overcharged, this move gains two additional effects. First off, Dooku will cause any lightning that hits any ground chunks he has to remain around it, electrifying it. Enemies who hit an electrified ground chunk take 4% damage and minor hitstuno, though it won't hit opponent's repeatedly due to a minor internal cooldown and has no knockback, and it will add 4% damage to any time a ground chunk is thrown and add a somewhat substantial amount of hitstun to it, aiding in Dooku's approach. If, however, the ground chunk is cut into pieces, the electricity will cause it to explode much more violently when they seperate upon throwing, causing them to double the distance that they are thrown and move at 1.33x the speed, though they do not deal any additional damage or knockback.

The other thing is that opponents hit by the lightning will be stuck in it until the attack's duration ends though this will NOT inflict extra damage. This allows them to get hit by abilities such as your ground chunks being thrown and continue to get hit by Force Lightning, but the actual key thing of this change is that if Count Dooku inputs a cardinal direction during this, he will use the Force to toss the opponent in that direction for the knockback with some noticable effort. The high base knockback of this move makes it especially potent near ledges if overcharged, potentially allowing Count Dooku to set up gank situations, especially dangerous early, and is one of Dooku's few ways to set up early kill situations (the other being Forward Smash), though Dooku still usually needs a decent amount of damage racking for it to be done.


Grab Game


"Anger is useful—unless it is used against you."

Grab: Force Grip

Count Dooku raises his hand forwards and makes a gripping motion with it, snagging anyone in front of him into his grab and levitating them off the ground in front of him. This has the range of a low-medium range tether, but is less laggy than a tether grab, largely in the ending lag department, though it is still laggier than most non-tether grabs. All around a rather good grab, though his dash grab is a bit poor.

Pummel: Lightning Pulse

Dooku sends a pulse of electricity through the foes body, inflicting 1% damage to them. Quite a rapid pummel as Dooku takes time to enjoy torturing his hapless foe. Since damage is done in 1% chunks, one can stop short of 100% Force Meter production before throwing a foe to save their overdrive for later. (IE if you have 95% Force Meter, you can pummel 4 times then throw, leaving you at 99% before the throw and thus not overcharging...then follow the throw up with your now 100% Meter overdrive move.)

Back Throw: Reverse Stroke

Count Dooku sends the foe flying at him, making a graceful, quick stroke as they fly past, which deals 10% damage and rather decent knockback. The KO potential is low, however, and it only kills around 240%, but it generally has enough knockback to get foes out of Dooku's face. This move is considered a lightsaber move and thus will not use up your Force Meter to overdrive it, making it the best throw if you wish to conserve your Force Meter, or if one wishes to combo with another overcharged Force move. It's uses are rather straightforward, so little more to say.

Up Throw: Force Fling

Dooku swirls his finger around with a sinister smirk, causing the foe to be spun around him, before he points up and sends the foe hurtling to the skies, dealing 11% damage that KOs at 165%, visually the effect is somewhat similiar to Mewtwo's Up Throw. Although the KO power is not impressive, it IS Dooku's strongest KO Throw that doesn't rely on overdriven Force powers, while the knockback is low enough if the opponent is at low %s to allow some aerial follow-ups. This move is a rather poor way to start a ground combo, however, and one would find more uses in Back Throw for that.

If one overdrives this move, the benefit is that Count Dooku is allowed to move while the foe spins, though he cannot perform any moves except for his Up Special (as the Up Special does no damage and he cannot grab while "throwing" a foe). The foe remains spinning in place, but Dooku is free to move wherever, the best place to go being up and chasing an opponent into the air where they will soon be launched, enabling combos much easier, though a clever Down Aerial can also turn this into a ground assault. At higher %s, Dooku can specifically use Force Jump to follow enemies high into the sky, potentially KOing them sooner (similiar in concept to Mega Man's Up Special + Tornado Hold).


Down Throw: Choke Hold

Dooku begins to Force Choke the foe (4% damage), before gaining control of his movement in the same manner as Donkey Kong's Cargo Throw: Dooku is now free to move and jump as he pleases, repositioning the foe into advantageous areas, potentially leaving them in a perfect and helpless place to get pelted by Ground Chunks, giving Force Lightning time to shock them and so on and so forth. Upon hitting A, Dooku will close his hand's grip and the opponent will take 4% damage from a more intense choke, falling towards the ground: If they hit it, they will enter techable prone, however there is actually just enough time for the opponent to perform a jump, which prevents them from entering prone. However, utilizing one's second jump so close to the ground is rather risky, and Dooku can still follow-up in a few ways. Up Tilt is particularly effective. Missing one's tech sets up a prone chase situation, while a tech sets up a tech chase, naturally. If Dooku is in the air when they are released, then naturally foes have much more time to react with a jump, and more freedom. If Dooku does not throw the foe in time and they break out, he takes moderate lag while opponents take almost none, punishing Dooku for his excess greed.

Overdriving this move increases the initial damage to 6% and causes the opponent to be held at 1.25x grab difficulty. The throw hit is increased to 6% and a small neck snapping noise is heard, after which a 3rd hit of 6% is applied, making this an extremely damaging throw overall (18%) that still offers a lot of follow-up options. Finally, the prone becomes untechable in this manner, making the foe's life more difficult.


Forward Throw: Ball Lightning

Count Dooku thrusts his hands forward, sending the opponent flying with a powerful blast of the Force, dealing 9% damage and sending them flying with force that KOs at 189%, with a low base knockback but solid knockback growth, making it a good combo fodder move at early damage percentages.

The real power of this move is unlocked if it is overclocked, however, as Dooku will then shoot out a blast of lightning energy which follows the foe. This blast is somewhat slow and deals 12% damage, KOing at 160%, which doesn't sound like a lot...but that is from the center of the stage, if it hits them while they are flying away, then you'll probably KO them sooner, though even then it's usually rather mediocre. This lightning, however, will home in on the foe, which allows Count Dooku significant added pressure if he uses this move, and moves such as Down Throw grant additional utility. Overcharging Up Smash in particular is a great way to throw opponents into it for a potent damaging combination.

When passing near electrified ground chunks or a foe who is currently being hit by Up Smash or Side Special, Ball Lightning will speed up towards the foe, going 1.5x it's normal speed. Up Smash allows you to use this as a big combo, but Side Special allows you to use it as an extreme pressure tool and really helps the foe get pressured when using non-overdrive Force Lightning. Ball Lightning lasts quite long, 12 seconds, or until it hits the foe.


Aerials

"Finesse. Artfulness. Economy."

Neutral Aerial: Force Repulse

The Count brings his arms close to him and gathers the Force, before expelling it out around him as a sphere which deals 9% damage and one Battlefield Platform of set knockback away from him, knocking objects above from him upwards, objects below him downwards and so on and so forth. The range of this move is 1.5x Bowser's size, but if Bowser was circular, and the starting lag on the move is quite quick, overall making it a very good off the stage move and GTFO move, however the hitbox lasts little time and the ending lag is hefty. A solid air dodge can avoid this move and end up sending our dear Count reeling. Count Dooku stalls himself in the air for a moment when using this move, similiar to Lucario's Down Aerial.

Items hit by this move, along with Dooku's own projectiles (but NOT enemy projectiles), will be flung away from Dooku when he uses this move, with items being treated as if they were thrown strongly, which can allow Dooku to keep his ground chunks around a bit longer or send Ball Lightning hurtling ever quicker at the foe. Distance traveled by this move to Dooku's projectiles does NOT count for their travelled distance, so he can also use it as a range extender. Tossing up a Ground Chunk and then jumping for a Neutral Aerial can be particularly useful: If the foe was above Dooku, he may even Force Jump to the ground chunk he just send into the air and then use NAir again to push it up again. Ground chunks not yet a projectile are not affected, of course.

When send into overdrive, Neutral Aerial deals 12% damage and increases it's fixed knockback to 1.5 Battlefield Platforms. Dooku will draw in items and his projectiles that are within 3/4ths of a Battlefield Platform to either side of him, which will then be sent flying upon releasing the move. Dooku may also now hold down A to stall himself for longer in the air, and during that time may even use the force to move slightly in any direction: Dooku can use this to gain vertical distance even, but since it requires a full Force Meter and then drains it...yeah, no infinite recovery for you. This can allow Dooku to manually reposition his projectiles in a pinch and to perform similiar close-range melee repositioning as his Forward Tilt.


Forward Aerial: Aerial Assault

Dooku extends his Lightsaber forward and performs a spinning, full body slash, think visually similiar to Pikachu's Neutral Aerial but with a lightsaber being extended outwards, thus giving it a lot more range. Enemies who hit Dooku's body take 1% damage and pathetic knockback, but the lightsaber deals 3% and will hit multiple times. Dooku spins 4 times by default, thus, a maximum of 12% damage is dealt, with each spin being of moderate speed. Starting lag is slightly laggier than normal, while ending lag is about average for this kind of thing. While spinning, Dooku gains impeccable aerial control and speed horizontally, essentially giving him very good DI, enabling to move similiar to Wario in the air while spinning. If the DI of the foe can be predicted, it is thus easy to keep the foe in it...but if you mispredict, the low hitstun of this move will allow them to easily get out before you can correct yourself.

As long as A is held down, Count Dooku may continue to spin and gain the benefits of increased DI, at the cost of 5% Force Meter per spin. Each spin deals the same damage as usual, which can mean quite a lot of damage racked up if Dooku is able to keep the foe inside of it for a long time. Each hit of the Forward Aerial will not give Force Meter until the move ends, preventing infinite FAiring. Since Dooku gains better air abilities, holding down this move and using it to recover is perfectly viable, though since it only improves your horizontal abilities it won't help you gain vertical distance, and the ending lag gives enemies a solid punish window if you get close to the edge with it.


Down Aerial: Force Blast

Count Dooku raises an opened palm up before thrusting it downwards, sending a blast of kinetic Force downwards. This move has multiple hitboxes. The first is close to Dooku's palm, where it is at its strongest, dealing 15% and a fairly strong spike about 1.25x the power of R.O.B.'s Down Aerial. The blast under, which travels about 3/4ths of a Ganondorf, deals 12% and a weaker spike about 0.75x the power of R.O.B.'s Down Aerial. Finally, there is a hitbox slightly to the side of the middle, spiking hitbox, which deals a meager 4% damage and lightly pushes foes away, without even performing hitstun. Starting lag on this is slightly above average with ending lag being even laggier but not to the extent of the SUPER laggy moves. However, Dooku has almost no landing lag on this move, and the "side" hitboxes of the move will actually spread out some if hit across the ground, allowing Dooku a way to make a safer landing in dangerous situations.

Overcharging this move causes Dooku to blast it out as a projectile, causing the hitboxes to then be shot one Ganondorf down after the initial hit, thought since it is moving it will obviously not hit directly blow Dooku anymore. This can turn it into an extremely potent edgeguarding and gimping tool and is essentially Dooku's only other real option for an early kill. The side hitboxes will also spread out more upon hitting the ground, 3/4ths of a Battlefield Platform to each side, and will now deal 6% damage at all times.


Up Aerial: Flip Slash

Count Dooku flicks his lightsaber upwards, performing a short sweeping upward slash of it which deals 7% damage and light knockback, a fairly standard yet useful juggling aerial all things considered, and one of Dooku's few aerials which is fast both starting and stopping. By hitting A once again before the end of the move, Dooku will quickly slash below him for 5% damage that "scoops" opponent's upwards with his slash before performing the up aerial slash again, a motion which takes 10% Force Meter per use but may be repeated endlessly and allows Dooku another method to catch enemies below him. Especially useful if you don't want to use an Overdrive Down Aerial.

Back Aerial: Sith Impaler

The Count takes his lightsaber, reverses his grip and directly thrusts it behind him, a swiftly started movement which deals 12% damage and mediocre knockback (KOs at 230%) to whomever it might hit, Dooku then pulling the lightsaber back into its usual combat ready stance with surprise swiftness. The tip of Dooku's lightsaber is a sweetspot which deals 18% damage to the foe with an electrical cosmetic effect, but it entirely lacks knockback: Instead, the opponent is briefly sent into their tumbling state. The ending lag of this move and timing means the foe will begin to fall slightly above Dooku, preventing him from easily chaining Back Aerials, but this does allow him a good chance to shoot the opponent full of Up Smash lightning or what have you.

Final Smash: Dark Lord of Finesse

"The dark side is strong in me, for I am Sith."
"A bold claim, but you are not Sith. You wear the trappings of the Sith, you fight like the Sith, but this can be imitated, however. You lack a vital quality found in all Sith. Sith have no fear, and I sense much fear in you. "
"You are a foolish old man, who knows nothing of the dark side!"
"Ahahaha.



Indeed...."

Grasping the Smash Ball, Count Dooku rushes forward with a slash and begins a potent, relentless assault with his lightsaber. Travelling one Battlefield Platform in distance, Count Dooku will slash many times at whoever gets in his way for 8%-12% damage per hit, always totalling 90% if the opponent is hit by every strike. Opponents hit by any strike will be caught in every single subsequent strike: Even if they DI out, Count Dooku will use the Force to drag them back into the next strike, making it utterly inescapable. Dooku is invincible while performing this flurry of fancy lightsaber moves: In fact, hitting him with an attack will not only cause him to deflect it with the Force, but to then use the Force and throw them in the path of the attack, catching them in the Final Smash!

The last hit of this move is a thrust similiar to his Forward Tilt in animation, which pierces the foe's body and leaves them in prone at the end of the Final Smash. If nobody was caught in this Final Smash then this will leave Dooku with heavily exploitable ending lag, while it has very little if a foe is hit.

If the foe has a melee weapon such as a sword or lightsaber, they will visually attempt to stop Dooku's unyielding assault, but the Count's deft lightsaber movements will thwart them each time: This has no effect aside from being a cool cosmetic effect and the same damage is dealt. If the foe uses a lightsaber, sparks will fly with each hit and a brief musical cue from Confrontation With Count Dooku will play. I imagine the bit around 2:58 specifically.


Playstyle: Force Fencer


"Even though I knew that the Senate was corrupt, the Council was fallible, and Jedi training methods far from perfect, I remained with the Jedi Order for twelve years after Galidraan. Why? Because I still believed that I could accomplish some good as a Jedi. I thought I could bring about some positive changes, right certain wrongs, and do better than maintain the status quo. In short, I was an utter fool."

Count Dooku is a high duelist character who focuses primarily on agility and disjointed combination attacks topped off with potent Force moves to win engagements. Many of Dooku's attacks are lower damage than opponents, in particular his Tilts and Aerials do less than most characters and his Grab Game has less direct strength out of it without a full Force Meter, which means if he gets into a pure slugfest with a heavyweight, he's likely to come out on the worse end. Likewise, his most powerful moves have heavy lag, and Dooku himself is only somewhat faster than average, meaning that lightweights will usually have an advantage in speed.

How, then, is Darth Tyrannus meant to win engagements? The key comes from precise movements, predictions, keeping the foe off balance while maintaining your own economy of action. Dooku's attacks frequently come with a component of movement or other way to keep foes on the egde. For example, the multiple potential movement options at Forward Tilt allow Dooku to deftly weave in and out of the opponent's zone of danger, before striking with his thrust, while his Dash Attack contains multiple options to respond to sudden changes in approach while dashing. His Jab allows him to clash with unfavorable attacks and turn situations around. Although Dooku himself is not quick, many of his basic lightsaber strikes are rather swift, which enables him to relentlessly pressure foes, punish mistakes and leave fewer openings in his assault.

Dooku's primary weakness comes from range, approaching and projectiles. Dooku has few options to meet projectiles compared to many Jedi: His Ground Chunks provide good defense once up, but their laggy start enables projectile characters to interrupt it, and prevent it from being spammed against other foes. Dooku's movement options are primarily short ranged, meaning they do not help him when starting long engagements. Proper application of the Force is often how Dooku will excel in these situation: Force Lightning's damage, especially if sent into Overdrive, forces approaches and retreated which Dooku can chase, while the addition of the Force to moves like Down Tilt can help close the range gap, bringing foes closer to him. Dash Attack is once again very good here for an approach option and one landing an overdrived Grab into a Forward Throw is especially good vs. the heaviest of campers.

Although Dooku excels at racking damage, his KO options are rather limited, as only Dooku's Forward Smash is especially adept at this move. Combining moves like Up Smash with Forward Throw can help compensate for this weakness and the ability of Up Throw to offer potential KO combos when Overdriven, with rarer instances of Down Aerial gimping if the foe is careless. Dooku can also be content to play the long game: If so, Dooku's Down Special becomes an even more critical part of his playstyle, as the life leeching effect when Overdriven allows for potentially monstrous changes in damage leads. Do not forget your ability to utilize ground chunks to setup your powerful Forward Smash and other strongest moves, especially if the ground chunk is split into many annoying pieces. Enemies will usually look to defend against Dooku's strong knockback moves when he is ready to Overdrive, so Dooku may wish to utilize this to his advantage and instead drive for more damage with his lightsaber focused attacks.
 
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MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
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TRIGGERING COMMENT TITLE HERE

I’m sorry, but I just have to say something about Amethyst’s character – this character appeals to more fringe fetishes than that one OC set for that zombie stripper posted a while back. Wow. I’ll openly tell you this didn’t help with this character getting so skipped over, but this set is being reviewed on your request now.

The meat of Amethyst’s moveset is comboing with a whip. The Neutral Special starts us out with a move that trips people on the ground and awkwardly tangles them up in the air for .75 seconds. This is a weirdly inconsistent effect, ignoring the very strong number on your stun. It is very vague how difficult it is to escape the Side Special tethering effect, and “repeatedly moving the left and right input” is a random unique way to escape for no real logical reason. The Side Special then adds on a bit about reflecting projectiles because that apparently makes it more unique when that’s common in Smash and it doesn’t interact with her moveset at all. Down Special takes a very long time to charge in the context of her other much more powerful numbers, and you make her sound ludicrously fast with the constant references to her comboing game. When it’s so slow to charge, she certainly won’t use it for approaching. In Up Special, it would be very weird animation wise for the dogcopter to perform the humanoid form’s aerials, you would be getting Pikadorf tier awkwardness.

I can ever buy that the shapeshifting in general is in-character, and nobody is going to do the research to question you on it particularly. Even if fsmash is somehow in-character, it still comes across really jarring, though. The shapeshifting more comes across as gags than anything she actually uses in combat, but when the rest of the set is very boring it’s worth questioning whether you should’ve used it either more or less – using it a small amount like this comes across tacky in an otherwise very straightforward set and it may’ve been better without these moves. If you were going to actually do something with it, then you’d need to have her do something beyond completely transform to do something other than effects she could easily accomplish on her own in the cases of fsmash, usmash, and uthrow especially.

The majority of the attack is standard melee strikes, mostly with the whip. They come across very generic with minimal playstyle substance, with the relevance of most of them being “comboing”. Doing combos is not inherently interesting if you don’t combo in a remotely interesting way, over half the cast “combos” now. You are very vague about it and just say moves are “good for comboing” without saying any reasons why sometimes, and other times the uses you do say are still vague enough to not give any sense of playstyle. For all I know, all of her moves with such labeling can combo into all of her other moves like this.

WALUIGI-

Daisy’s playstyle again is comboing, and I can’t use as blanket of a statement as I can with Amethyst as it puts any thought into its comboing and has anything at all interesting about it. I think the Specials other than the counter Down Special, along with the dsmash, provide interesting enough opportunities to interact off of and provide a comboing base with. Still, most of the set is very standard and is largely only talking about what makes moves cool individually than any bigger picture, though at least you actually provide enough context to say how the moves actually combo/give better reasons unlike Amethyst over there. Unfortunately, the things you find really cool to talk about in the individual moves are things the majority of us find big snoozefests, and these sorts of talks are more common than more direct playstyle references beyond comboing. Sometimes I think you don’t even find what you’re talking about that cool yourself, but are just talking about a Smash Bros engine mechanic for the sake of it.

Regardless of what I have said about your writing style, I will say that your set would still be much more approachable without custom Specials. It duplicates what are inevitably going to be the longest inputs multiple times, and I don’t get much of a sense of progress as reading them as they’re artificial extra inputs. I could rant forever about how custom Specials siphon creativity out of other moves, but most of your Custom Specials are just variants anyway. I actually do see some different uses for her Custom Specials, and I would prefer it if some of them were just implemented into the main moves somehow. It wouldn’t be hard to make the speed the Side Special flower goes at controllable, and the Flower Wall from a custom Up Special just deserves to be in the set outright IMO as a usmash or something, seeing it’s one of the few Custom Specials that gets actually referenced.

What Bionichute said about the characterization has some credibility in my opinion. I respect your approach to not have excessive props and be a generic spin off representative, but I was very baffled that there was no sports equipment whatsoever. When I heard about the ball in passing, I assumed it’d be a soccer ball. Mario Land is a very obscure game at this point with very inconsistent logic with the rest of the series, and for Daisy’s character. Nothing is ever referenced from Sarasaland, and being a token damsel is the lowlight of her career that solidified her as a Peach Clone and forced the spin off developers to differentiate her. I have nothing against the crystal/flower abilities, but I do not like the concept of the superball. It’s from her obscure kingdom, but only Mario ever uses it – it just comes across as rather forced potential mining when you are that determined against using sports props. I would’ve thought at least a custom special would’ve turned it into a soccer ball or something.

If you don’t want to use her powers that give her any sort of potential on more moves, I would expect more use of moves at least inspired by sports. I have technically done a “Mario Sports” character with Shoot the Rabbit – it’s possible to have sports maneuver based attacks without using props if that’s what you’re so afraid of, just interacting off the balls vaguely. Shoot isn’t the best, but that would’ve been a better example of what I’d liked to see out of a simpler set like this.

I will say that this character choice really is a minefield of things that can go wrong in making a set, with most all of her potential being quite tacky and without it coming across as a really boring character. It’s unfortunate you have to be judged entirely in the context of this one when you make sets so rarely, and with your high MYM interest it would really be nice if you didn’t take ages to release movesets. Even your new set for that Legendary Pokemon is a much, much easier/better character choice, and I would like to see what you can do with your interesting MYM philosophies.

CAPTAIN COWARD

Captain Toad cowering away on much of his moveset does little to justify the idea that he should ever be playable in Smash Bros when he is the textbook generic villager who exists to be easily terrorized by the villain, even when that villain is as unintimidating as Bowser. The moves where he cowers will feel incredibly artificial as he can get scared of nothing or get scared facing the wrong way, as the player can and will input it at times where it doesn’t make good characterization sense. Next, we have moves that spawn objects out of thin air. We don’t even pretend that Toad is taking them out as props sometimes, they just randomly appear, only for this character who apparently is so worthless he can’t do anything voluntarily himself.

VEIGAR’S PEN

Koenma’s most ambitious concept is the soul stealing, and you do a fairly good job of keeping it from getting too scary balance wise. He has several other concepts with the barriers and Jorge, and they all get their share of playstyle flow. The issue is that the playstyle flow between the various elements, while strong individually, doesn’t come together as very cohesive beyond general standard fare stage control. Such stage control sets are perfectly fine, but this set isn’t terribly aware it is one so of course it’s not going to be as strong of an effort as Korol. I think that the main source of confusion for the focus was always Jorge, and it took a while for him to weasel his way into the moveset to actually do anything relevant during its development. He could’ve cameoed fine with the other ogres – if you wanted to keep some of the better Jorge stuff you could maybe have some moves interact with the ogres as they linger. I apologize for not saying this sooner, but it is rather awkward to say something like this during a preview when I’m waiting to see how it’s going to turn out, as I just assumed it would turn out better than it did. It’s still a fine moveset as it is, but it definitely could’ve been better, and I can easily see why someone would get confused by it, especially when I’m the only one who gets the (absolutely hilarious) in-jokes in the set.

WARLORD MECH

It’s very hard for me to get excited about Copypaste. The writing style is directly made to be a (hilarious) parody of me like the character himself is, and as he enters into the Warlordian archetypes he just doesn’t really feel ready enough to commit to them when his character is supposed to be so over the top. When it is directly parodying me, it is just too relevant to not bring up the comparisons to my own sets, and I feel Mountain offers much more interesting concepts with his terraforming while being better balanced as a gigantic super heavyweight. I know Copypaste’s source gives him very little material, but I do think you could’ve taken better advantage of his body type as it’s mostly an afterthought in the moveset. The actual basic flow presented with the boulders is legitimate and I can’t fault the execution that much beyond missing potential. While in the post previewing process you added in some decent mechanisms to enable him to cope better defensively, it’s still very difficult to ever picture this poor guy attaining even basic set-up for his playstyle needs.

MR. MIYAMOTO

I can’t say enough positive about Mr. Badd, it was really an experience to go through as it blew me away input by input. Having him actually parody real video game companies is a great way to get in hilarity and a ton of moveset potential, and it makes a lot of sense for the bizarre series this world makes up along with Mr. Badd himself. You really have a way of interpreting weird characters in unique and interesting ways to give them great sets they couldn’t otherwise have with this guy, Korol, Koema, and Dr. Marcus, and they’re always in complete and utter service to the character.

This is a minion customization set that does it much more directly than Ameno Sagiri, having to actually make use of the foe and interact with them to produce his amiibos in a way that actually sounds fun to play against instead of obnoxious or too easy like some other sets. I love the mechanic of saving data in the headquarters, enabling him to transfer the valuable data in case either he or his mech dies, and to even transfer it into an Amiibo to get back later in case the headquarters is somehow destroyed. Badd has such a massive degree of control over his minion’s movesets and their behavior – he really has an answer to just about any kind of wacky opponent that can be thrown at him when he can even just have his Amiibos fight each other to produce more data if the foe is being difficult, but it still never feels obtrusive.

It’s really impressive just how disciplined the moveset’s inputs are, just like Mr. Badd. Nothing goes to waste and everything has a cool purpose, most obviously evidenced in the elaborate grab-game where the pay-off really comes into play. Having an entire extra set of inputs on the fthrow and Up Special really shows the moveset going the extra mile. While the Up Special inputs are mostly just enjoyable characterization and are quite simple, they’re still relevant as his only defensive options then and are used intelligently to introduce the mechanic of money.

I would have maybe liked to see the fish creatures do more when they’re important to his character, such as be able to boost the AI, but their use in the moveset gameplay wise is still wonderful as they’re inserted into various parts of the Amiibo. I will say the aerial interactions with the HQ took the cake for being a bit silly flavor wise, but in the least they do enable him both to better defend his precious headquarters and to enable him to shove his corporate weight around.

COMPETENCE, THE CHARACTER

At a glance one might assume this character is very easy, but I willingly took Kon and Slon over Ladja just because of how awkward it seemed to put his many magics into a coherent playstyle beyond projectile spam. The character lacks much of a big theme for a moveset, but you came up with one in the death ball that I think works very well not only mechanically, but for the character, as it’s the most representative thing you could use. It’s his attack of choice in cutscenes during his many killings, so it represents those actions that make up his competence quite well. You even manage to make pretty good use of petrification when that’s pretty much characterization baggage for the character in a moveset, coming out pretty definitive for this character.

You make the death ball a much cooler move than I’d expect, and being able to split it up in later inputs really answers all of the problems you’d generally have with a character that focuses on only one projectile. It’s an interesting take on a character focused on one central projectile and is much better than the older attempts at them, and also still has attempts at projectile spam without falling into overdone clichés. While it’s not as important as splitting it up, I thought it was also a nice touch that he could automatically re-reflect his projectile when reflected in a way that made a lot of sense.

POLITICAL IDEALIST

The count’s playstyle is made up of several strong fragments that don’t come together that particularly strong, but they are certainly very cool on their own. The strongest aspects are the melee game mostly found in the standards, along with the force mechanic and ground chunks. I actually find the resource management of the meter one of the more interesting aspects of the set as it dictates he stays on the offensive, but I also like the large amount of moves that can be used to avoid reaching complete charge so he can actually use it strategically. I will say that a fair chunk of the effects feel a bit weak as powered up versions compared to other versions, especially when he’s only going to perform 1 or 2 of them per stock. I have a similar moveset that gets unique one time move boosts just by charging a special, and Smash 4’s Little Mac has a very similar mechanic to get up the meter but he gets the instant kill punch for his hard work. It’s an easy number change, but I would increase the amount of force you gain as I would like to see him use 3 or 4 boosted moves per stock as opposed to 1 or 2.

The non Neutral specials, throws, and some of the aerials are a bit weak, so I’m not super excited about the set even if I did enjoy it a good bit. I could see Side Special be demoted from Special status in favor of ftilt with appropriate number changes for Side Special. The concept of powered up fthrow is good, but the input does not belong on a throw. I do not like that he has to grab the foe first before being allowed to launch the fthrow’s projectile, and the interaction it has is a bit weirdly specific from a throw input. It’s also the most blatant move in the set that’s just completely generic without the overdrive boost, so I would like to see that move reworked if you came back to this set, with the projectile effect given to some other input that’s more lacking like one of the aerials.
 
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This block's going to have a couple of comeback sets, Regina the first, after a long absence this was a very nice set to welcome yourself back Kat. The unique pickaxe weapon gets plenty of focus as a combination of Dedede's hammer in power and the sharpness of a sword for hitboxes, this is the first set to use it since Perches Foxtrot and it's used very well. The set has the typical ground affinity moves you'd expect, creating earth pillars to erupt out of the ground and the dynamite comes together in a strong, cohesive playstyle. The one thing I will say is it's not an innovative set, because the stuff with the time bomb and ground pillars has been done many times and there's not a super high standard for interactions or flow off the concepts. I also don't think the playstyle itself is that unique either, but the set does manage to keep it satisfying enough that it's easy to overlook. I would not complain if you banged out many of these kinds of sets.

Knuckles is about what you'd expect for the character, I feel Bio summed it up best in his rank comment saying "it's a set for Knuckles." I don't know Sonic besides Sonic 1 and 2 that don't have Knuckles so I'm at a loss trying to give feedback on the characterisation or use of potential, but get the sense you use it all up in a fairly logical manner. The input placement is exactly what you'd expect out of Knuckles too. As a side note, I also have to compliment your use of sprites and how clear everything is, you also manage avoid getting into a convoluted writing style as it seemed you did in Sonic 2.0.

The flaw here is that it's all very dull and doesn't make a good argument for the character's uniqueness, as I feel like the boulder could have more impact on the other moves, but more than that is has bog standard aerials and grab game. There's simply very little interesting stuff going on there at all, making them very forgettable. Simply juggling the boulder is also not enough to make moves have a reason to exist in the playstyle.

Lots of boulder, digging or terraforming sets exist mostly made by Warlord that you could read to get more ideas. If your aim is to replicate a Smash Bros set, this would rank pretty low as far as interesting newcomers go, it's no Ryu, Cloud or Bayonetta in terms of creativity and effort. On a scale of that to Palutena or WFT, this is closer to the latter. I hope this is a decent analogy to get through to you on why your sets don't have much of a positive impact, despite the fact they could be seen in the game, as not all sets in the game are as good as one another. You don't have to be afraid of doing something impossible for the game when you look at the kind of mechanics Sakurai has introduced in Smash 4, there's plenty of new ground to be broken.

Slon is a fantastic example of a seemingly impossible character given a hugely ambitious development and high standards to result in a truly memorable set. The character only has a few concepts it can even do, you reach into the spin-offs, use its recolours, and generally pull out every single possible idea you could to fill up the inputs with nothing short of great moves. This wouldn't be enough on its own if it didn't also have two of the best input sections this contest, full of amazing moves like nair, forward tilt and dash attack. These are some of my favourite moves period this contest. There are a handful of moves that are either boring (uair, fair) or arbitrary for the bleeding mechanic (fthrow). I should have been more attentive to this during previewing, but I didn't realise how good this was or could be until the three aforementioned oustanding moves produced at the end of development.

I don't think this is quite in the running for your absolute best, but I fully stand by this being my favourite set of the contest. Aside from the amazing nair, ftilt and dash attack, every move has a cool use of the power up down special, and the refreshingly good "weapon switch" mechanic. The smashes are no slouch either, all of them have very cool and memorable applications of both the power up and weapons. The set also avoids the pitfall that many sets of this genre do, of making the non-power up moves useless or the other end of the spectrum, making the power-up moves not powerful enough, striking a great balance. On that note the balance and execution of this set is also really good, feeling like a brutish thug character who gets angry, and should be a shining example to everyone of what you can accomplish even on a character who does nothing. There's no excuse as long as you're willing to put in enough effort.

Captain Toad's got a share of problems, Warlord already went over how it's weird for him to cower in fear at every character on forward tilt and the bizarre props. On a basic level the set skimps out on even giving a damage percent on a few moves, and some moves are really odd. This would be all the pirahna plant moves that summon it at random, on a similar note the moves where Captain Toad just attacks by accident or when he's flailing in fear are really awkward characterisation. The closest Smash Bros comes to making characters do something by accident is stuff that isn't actually that, like Dedede's dash attack, as it's strange for them to keep doing this animation over and over at every opponent including in a mirror match. Despite having some good ideas in the specials, the rest of the set goes off in a pretty wacky direction that doesn't take advantage of what it set up originally, even then some of it seems weird like throwing tracks into place. Would be better to physically go place them on the ground, in a crouching animation. The order of the specials is also odd given the first one destroys the others, then has to detail them before they're introduced, this order should probably be in reverse.

As a part of this movement, I probably have some bias for Abnes but I never felt it was that annoying or obnoxious, I really liked the characterisation of this set, to a point. I agree the bonnet effect is taking it too far, even if it does link the tacky article, plus stuff like the fsmash is pretty obviously too lopsided, slipping into being too useful or not useful. That's the worst of it really, besides that the set's biggest flaw is that some of the moves feel a bit odd. I don't mind the tripping move as that's implied heavily to be a feint by Abnes, but star jumps and throwing a tantrum, it's strange to have these as actual attacks. It's forgiven a little for the dogoo cops being hilarious minions, and generally that aspect of the set is the best.

What really hurts this set, and I am slightly guilty in this as the sole previewer, is that the specials don't set up much to flow off besides the dogoo cops. The megaphone move isn't important, the sliding door is a pretty standard fare recovery and the camera largely doesn't add much to the cops that wasn't already present in the side special. You could probably have the fsmash attack on the megaphone special without losing anything, having the effect not feeling weird on a special rather than be on a smash, expand the camera move a little, and really do anything interesting with the recovery at all. Maybe a teleport move with the dogoo cops or something? It only ends up making the set feel like it has to desperately try to be interesting, on a character who's already got no potential.

The Mountain is first and foremost just amazing to even exist given it's a character who falls down as his primary form of attack. It's even more amazing that you manage to get any mileage out of this, while not sacrificing the feel of the set as relying on the collapsing, and manage to put in some terraforming that makes tons of sense on the character. I was afraid to go back into the pitfall after all these years, but you've taught me how to love being pitfalled again, justifying it with the weak, spammed use it has in Smash 4. Sorry Roy. It's pretty interesting how you differentiate the smashes that creates lots of rocks too, one of the highlights. The set is desperately trying to avoid redundancy from the beginning, ultimately it succeeds, but I wish there were more unique applications for the ghost throughout the set even if that's asking for it to be far more ambitious. It's difficult to demand much more from The Mountain, but objectively speaking it's simply not as interesting as your best this contest, but well above your least good.

I'm surprised you haven't taken a hammer to Regirock, pun unintended, and changed some of these obvious problems that have been pointed out. I am just restating what everyone has already said in chat. The Rock Polish special is kind of awkward, the down special while impressive is mostly there for Recycle and the two should probably combine into a new move, called Recycle (or something else that isn't a random Pokemon move name). I agree with Roy the numbers on this are very odd, and it would only take a quick peruse of the set to edit them to be higher, the knockback seems fine but the damage is very underpowered. There are also missing details like the down throw that seems to imply this move does infinite knockback off the ledge which is obviously unintentional.

That was largely just getting the negative out of the way, as I do like this set and think it's a return to form for you Slavic, back to the good days of Castform and Donnel. I even think the aerials and grab game are decent bit improved from the standards of those two sets, never feeling forced, although it is still an area i feel you could improve on. The base of adding rocks to Regirock's body, the earth pillars and the HMA feel of the set are well done. You could likely have done more with the smashes, I mean when this character does such an exaggerated pound of the ground on down smash, I think it deserves some sort of interaction or quake effect. Still it's all very fun and service to a character who outwardly seemed pretty boring in my view. Despite what I said about combining Recycle and Rock Polish, I do feel the down special is a highlight of the set especially for the characterisation, the effort and imagination involved in a multi-purpose move is also impressive.

I read Kamen Rider Accel, I don't get a very good impression of this series or genre from the way you go about their execution. The weapon switch comes down to three effects: wind hitboxes, more damage/knockback at the cost of speed and more hitstun or another effect entirely because this is the special effect. It becomes really boring reading every single move's effect for the weapon switch when they're all the same, and instead it should've just said "this will do a wind hitbox/more damage/hitstun" to save time. Besides these effects the set is really underwhelming and it's weird how you only use him transforming into a bike in one of the last sections. I get the sense the moves could ever be interesting on this character, you just didn't get at all creative. This set feels very phoned in and doesn't translate any of the fun of the series into the set.

Lubba's a really fun take on Rosalina's mechanic with the Hungry Luma and an imaginative way to interpret his power set, having the planets be an actual entity in the moveset, as well as the unlikely inclusion of slopes to complete the playstyle. The projectile manipulation from Rosalina's down special as inspiration is also pretty interesting in the context of these elements, improved by the new addition to the down special. You also attempt the very ambitious double purpose grab game, giving Hungry Luma its own throws sort of like Tubba Lubba, but with a greater success and better balance. The planets are a fun idea, and the ways you utilize them as essentially doubling for the slopes' effects and using their gravity is very creative.

This set is more about enjoying the character of Lubba, which is not something I'd ever have expected seeing this characer, but you milk it to the fullest with moves like dsmash, the terraforming, the allusions to his superiority with the entire Hungry Luma mechanic. Lubba looks sort of like Muno of Mario fame, a big kid's mascot, but he joins the Warlordian collection after this set. It's hard to argue it's not in character and it's really fun to read. It is a bit cluttered with the slopes, Hungry Luma, planets and projectile manipulation all vying for attention. Largely it manages to juggle all of these elements very well despite the massive amount of concepts at play, although it does feel a bit lopsided in favour of the Hungry Luma and slopes. This isn't bad necessarily, just unexpected after the specials, ultimately paying massive service to the character in a hilarious way.

It's difficult to express in words how happy I was to finally see a new Roy set pop up, and for Count Dooku, a character with many, many in-jokes both within MYM and out on the internet as a whole. It's one of those characters I wouldn't expect to be a good moveset, but this manages to build a well-characterised playstyle out of the elements of the full force mechanic, good application of simple rushdown and ground chunks. There's some very good rushdown moves in the standards, by memory the jab and dash attack were particularly fun, and the aerials go out of their way to keep the set at a high standard without trailing off. Compared to Windu, this is much more interesting and stayed my interest until the kind of weak last couple of throws. Those two did at least have a good playstyle application, whereas the forward throw probably is more of an offender. The set could allow for stronger normal moves or more uses of the force moves for a more comfortable balance, very easy change to the numbers if you want that.

I'm well established as a hater of meters in MYM, but this generally didn't bother me as there's little interaction between the meter and set. However at times it comes off as fairly arbitrary when the two do interact, like the back throw existing to have a throw not using up the meter, even if there are some genuinely thoughtful applications like pummel. You could probably have done something like what Cloud has in Smash 4, having the meter be invisible until you charge it, manually or when you deal/take damage. You'd have to juggle inputs, but I also felt the side special was just there to force an approach, and the Cloud move is the ultimate forcer of approaches. That aside I also didn't feel like the ground chunk was actually that well utilized, largely there after it's introduced to be used a couple times, and slashing up the chunk is fun but not substantiated on to a satisfying conclusion.
 
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Tocaraca2

Smash Ace
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Feb 22, 2015
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557
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Wokingham
going 3/3ths of a Battlefield Platform
Take a look at this quote and see what is wrong with it.
Count Dooku is a good set, I will give you that. You put a lot of thought into what he can do and how he plays, and I like how you can use ground chunks in the playstyle, it seems pretty cool. I like the force meter as well.
What I don't like is the fact that you use Jab, a lightsaber move, to reset the battlefield. This is completely inaccurate. I would expect a move to reset the battlefield to be a kick or a force push or something, or even hitting with the hilt of the lightsaber, not delivering a lightsaber blow that would cut the opponent in half. In lightsaber duesl, they will clash with their lightsabers and one will eventually either kick the opponent or force push them, giving them an advantage over the foe, then they can strike them while they are recovering from the impact.
This is not shown at all in this moveset. And not to mention that force lightning has hardly any range and is extremely weak; did you see what Dooku was able to do with force lightning in his fight against Obi-Wan and Anakin in Attack of the Clones? He rendered Anakin helpless for over a minute just by blasting him with this lightning. And you made it not even deal hitstun! What the hell? Up Smash doesn't have much range either, when it should go very high.
I only give this set 6/10 for now. If I wasn't a Star Wars fan like I am, I would probably rate you higher but I get annoyed at the inaccuracy.
And you made the Final Smash a giant version of what I would expect Jab to be. I've played Lego Star Wars and the lightsaber users have these 3 hit chain attacks, that would be perfect for a Jab Combo, but no it's just a single slice.

Also what is with the order of moves? Why is Back Throw before Forward Throw and why are the Aerials last? Just a quick question, more to do with how you design all sets than the quality of this one.

EDIT: I would also loved to have seen a grab which didn't even bring the opponent in towards him, it just kept them in place, hanging in the air, then the pummel could be a ranged electric attack.
 
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FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
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Apr 26, 2007
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Switch FC
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Fixed accidentally saying 3/3 instead of 3/4ths.

"What I don't like is the fact that you use Jab, a lightsaber move, to reset the battlefield. This is completely inaccurate. I would expect a move to reset the battlefield to be a kick or a force push or something, or even hitting with the hilt of the lightsaber, not delivering a lightsaber blow that would cut the opponent in half. In lightsaber duesl, they will clash with their lightsabers and one will eventually either kick the opponent or force push them, giving them an advantage over the foe, then they can strike them while they are recovering from the impact."

Jedi often use their lightsabers to reset, this is most commonly done by clashing until one or the other pushes off, which leads to the Jab having a clash mechanic. The battlefield reset comes from various similiar moves used by Count Dooku in The Clone Wars: For example in the video I linked in that post, the Anakin vs. Dooku battle in the dining room, Dooku uses a similiar move to this twice to push Anakin away from him. In the Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Count Dooku battle at the end of that video, Dooku uses his lightsaber to push Obi Wan off of him and reset the battle and give him a 1v2 advantage twice, which is where I got the idea for this move along with other characters using it during The Clone Wars and some movies (Darth Vader vs. Luke). Note that Forward Tilt and Dash Attack also come from this battle. As for using the force to reset the battlefield, that is exactly what the Jab's force version does, using the Force to reset it better, and the Force is used to this effect multiple times in the set. As for kicking, I wanted to include 1 or 2 of these moves in the set, but there ended up just not being much room to fit it in logically, the most open spots were Back Aerial and Up Aerial but neither of this really allowed Dooku to use a kick as he normally does, so I simply excluded it as I felt it was not a big deal.

"This is not shown at all in this moveset. And not to mention that force lightning has hardly any range and is extremely weak; did you see what Dooku was able to do with force lightning in his fight against Obi-Wan and Anakin in Attack of the Clones? He rendered Anakin helpless for over a minute just by blasting him with this lightning. And you made it not even deal hitstun! What the hell? Up Smash doesn't have much range either, when it should go very high."

Huh? Force Lightning goes over 2 Battlefield Platforms in range, it has REALLY LONG range! That is about 2/3rds the ENTIRITY of Battlefield! (Battlefield is just a touch over 3 Battlefield Platforms in size.) It not having any range is not an issue because it has actually has insane range and I was worried it would do too much damage for that range. As for Up Smash, I did not make it as tall, but I do specifically note the attack is very WIDE, and considering the disjointed nature of the mood and size, it is probably one of the highest range Up Smashes in the game. These complaints are absurd.

"Also what is with the order of moves? Why is Back Throw before Forward Throw and why are the Aerials last? Just a quick question, more to do with how you design all sets than the quality of this one."

You can order things however you want within a section, Forward Throw was last in the grab game because it was the last throw I came up with, Back Throw was first because I wished to establish a non-Force throw to use first so that readers would not go through a phase where they thought they HAD to overdrive after grabbing someone.

As for the placement of sections, I first knew what I was going to do with the Specials, Standards and Smashes moreso than Grab Game/Aerials until I'd finished the Specials, I enjoy talking about this kind of thing so here is why each input section is where they are.

Specials: Pretty obvious to go first, the ground chunk from Neutral Special will be repeatedly referenced throughout the moveset and therefor pretty much must go first (every input section after references it in some way). Specials were ordered to give a sense of how they help Dooku fight: The ground chunk sets up approach defense, the ability to fire it out and help him approach, and is generally something you set up BEFORE a major engagement. Force Lightning is his move that then forces the foe approach or retreat, helping him use the ground chunk from the first move, while Down Special is an extremely powerful but difficult to use counter which works best to crush opponents once approached OR to break approaches. Thus they tell a story of how Dooku plays. Up Special therefor goes last.

Standards: I knew that I wanted Dooku to have a high emphasis on lightsaber attacks to really bring out his 1v1, Lightsaber duelist nature, and I also knew that the Standards section would have the meat of this, being all lightsaber attacks and all of which but Up Tilt being planned before I began writing the section. After that, I put Forward Tilt after the other Tilts + Jab because of the fact that the F-Tilt can use them, so it sticks with the reader more if they already had an idea of what they can use going into Forward Tilt, hence why the moves you can use come before it. Dash Attack comes last because breaking up the flow of Jabs + Tilts to put it in felt awkward and I wasn't sure how I wanted to make the exact attacks within so I wrote it last of the Standards.

Smashes: Since both Dooku's Specials and Standards referenced his lack of KO power somewhat heavily, I felt it was prudent to show off his primary KOing move, which was Forward Smash. I had ideas for all of the Smashes planned out, although Up Smash at the start of the input section only had the idea of being a lightning move and keeping lightning on ground chunks. Forward Smash came first to show off the KO move, then Down Smash breaks up the two Force moves and allows me to show off his "strongest" lightsaber move with the most costly Force Meter cost which feels good after seeing the Standards, Up Smash was last because it took me a while to solidify what I wanted to do with it (since moves are pretty much written in order for me).

Grab Game: I had ideas for every throw except for Forward Throw entering this section and the grab game of Force users is always something a bit more expectant than normal since the Force is often used for grabby things in-franchise, so I felt it would be better to put this before Aerials, which I did not have ideas for Back Aerial + my Up Aerial ideas were murky at the time. Also, I knew the aerials would primarily be lightsaber moves, and I felt those would have more impact further away from the Standards section. Grab and Pummel went first for obvious reasons. Back Throw went first because I desired to put the non-Force throw first, and then Up Throw/Down Throw are essentially interchangable in position, Forward Throw was last because I came up with the move last among the grabs.

Aerials: The reasons for Aerials going last was discussed in Grab Game: Two inputs I had fewer ideas for and not wanting to clump up the primary lightsaber sections too much. Neutral Aerial and Forward Aerial went first because they were my favorite aerials, then Down Aerial which I also liked and because I didn't have Up Aerial/Back Aerial ready, Up Aerial came after that because I had more of an idea than Back Aerial, and then finally Back Aerial because I went into the move with no idea where I was going to take it and it went through a full mental iterations (a kick, an impalement move, then the move you see in the moveset).

I hope that was informative, it was certainly fun to write anyway, and I thank you for the comment on Dooku. He seems popular, which pleases me. :)
 
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