Make Your Move 14 - This is Snake, I'm done here

[StaffofSmashing]

ya got that right!

Now, on to my next moveset. I finished so many during the DDOS. Which to post...

 

[FrozenRoy]

Why not all of them?

 

[ForwardArrow]

And here it felt like this place would never be back up, and for that matter nothing was even lost! Joyous day. Hopefully the downtime gave us a bit of a break that will let us make more and better work now that Smashboards is back.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Copy paste LOVES to spaz put when i post a moveset. So im gonna have to proofread. Whether i post Glass Joe or Pichu, or even Balloon Fighter.

 

[Katapultar]

Glass Joe would be pretty awesome since he's never had a set of the 3. And we even had a Punch-Out! movement years back.

 

[Davidreamcatcha]

I'll assume that you mean ridiculously good, as you voted for it and said it was the best boss set that contest.

Thanks for the compliment.

Holy ****, Smady. Are you still talking?

 

[APC99]

We're back up? YES! I've created a Ridley moveset and an Amigo moveset in the meantime I'm using for a side project! I'll put em on here right now!

Ridley​

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Standards:
Jab: Ridley slashes forwards twice with alternating arms, and then bites forward. Deals 3%, then 4%, then 2%.
F-Tilt: Ridley slaps forward with his tail. Deals 5%.
U-Tilt: Ridley clenches his fists and snaps upwards with his jaws. Deals 7%.
D-Tilt: Ridley attacks using his tail, in a manner similar to Yoshi. Deals 4%.
Dash Attack: Ridley spins and then slashes forward with his claws. Deals 5%.

Smashes:
U-Smash: Ridley charges his wings and then continues smacking them together above him. Deals 14%.
F-Smash: Ridley goes into a ready position and then lunges forward with open claws. Deals 13%.
D-Smash: Ridley looks up into the sky and roars as he slams his claws down onto the ground. Deals 15%.
N-Air: Ridley spins like Falco. Deals 5%.

Aerials:
F-Air: Ridley claws forward twice. Each hit deals 4%.
B-Air: Ridley pushes backwards using his clawed feet. Deals 7%.
D-Air: Ridley swishes his tail downwards. Deals 5%.

Grabs & Throws:
Grab: Ridley lunges forward with one foot and then slams them into the ground to carry them. Ridley can now also use his Up Special during this stage to carry them while flying and releasing fireballs.
Pummel: Ridley clenches his claws. Deals 1% per clench.
U-Throw: Ridley flies upwards and then slams them onto the stage hard, dealing 7%.
F-Throw: Ridley flies in an arc and then slams them onto the ground, dealing 5%.
B-Throw: Ridley drags them across the floor backwards and then dropping them, dealing 6%.
D-Throw: Ridley slams them onto the floor several times, and then just releases them. Deals 4%.

Specials:
N-Special: Fire Breath. Ridley can either release several tiny fireballs that deal 9% each by tapping the button, or hold it to release a steady stream of flames, with each hit dealing 9% as well.
S-Special: Tail Spark. Ridley goes forward while his tail drags on the floor, creating sparks. The tail deals 6% if hit, but the sparks paralyze an opponent and deal 4%.
U-Special: Flight. If used on the ground (with one exception), Ridley will flap his wings and roar. This pushes away opponents and items, as well as weaker non-energy projectiles. He can do this for an unlimited time. If used in air or when you have grabbed someone, Ridley will burst into the sky and fly, similar to Pit’s recovery. He can steer as usual, but also release fireballs by using the Special button as well as pummel the opponent if they are in his grab.
D-Special: Looping Bite. Ridley does a loop-de-loop and goes into a glide, similar to Meta Knight’s recovery. Deals 8% if you touch any part of Ridley during this attack.


Final Smash: Meta Ridley. Ridley is now more powerful and invincible, and has several new attacks. He can no longer shoot fireballs, but instead energy beams. His Looping Bite now drops bombs, and his tail spark has him release missiles. This makes him basically Ridley with Samus’ moveset, but with his air grab and flight still in tow.

Taunts:

• Up Taunt: Ridley looks up and roars.
• Side Taunt: Ridley flaps his wings and motions for the opponent to come forward.
• Down Taunt: Ridley gets down onto all fours and growls as his wingspan expands, making him seem too big to fight.

Logo: The Screw Attack, same as Samus'.
Victory Theme: A metal version of the Metroid discovery theme, in the vein of Meta Knight's victory theme remix.

Amigo
Standards:
Jab: Amigo slams forward with alternating maracas, and then bumps them with his butt. Each hit deals 2%.
F-Tilt: Amigo pushes forward with his maracas. Deals 5%.
U-Tilt: Amigo flips his head as his sombrero flies upwards and hits anyone above him. Deals 4%.
D-Tilt: Amigo swipes in back of him using his tail. Deals 5%.
Dash Attack: Amigo crosses his arms and then points them outwards as his maracas spin in his hands. Deals 6%.

Smashes:
U-Smash: Amigo jumps and shakes his maracas as a force of beat surrounds him. Protects him from projectiles and also deals 12% to anyone hit by the beat.
F-Smash: He shakes his maracas as musical notes come out in a wavy arc as a projectile. Deals 17%.
D-Smash: He performs a shakes his maracas as a “beat” surrounds him that immediately dashes him forward and damaging anyone who touches the dashing Amigo. Deals 13%.

Aerials:
N-Air: He spins in a circle similar to Kirby. Deals 6%.
F-Air: He performs a sex kick. Deals 5%.
B-Air: He kicks backwards as he spins, dealing 6%
U-Air: He shakes his maracas which propel him upwards a bit, similar to Wario’s. Deals 7%.
D-Air: He swipes his tail downwards and then kicks downwards, spiking to the floor. Deals 6%.

Grabs & Throws:
Grab: Amigo lifts one of his legs and grabs on to the opponent using his monkey toes.
Pummel: Amigo whacks the opponent with his maraca. Deals 2% per hit.
U-Throw: Amigo shakes his maracas as the beat surrounds the opponent and deals shockwave damage. Deals 9%.
F-Throw: Amigo quickly roundhouse kicks them with high knockback, dealing 6%.
B-Throw: Amigo jumps off of them and then flips and “homing attacks” towards their back, pushing them backwards. Deals 6%.
D-Throw: Amigo shakes his maracas as musical notes strike the opponent downwards. The musical note acts similar to Pikachu’s Thunder to an opponent not in Amigo’s grasp. Deals 7%, no matter where your character is.

Specials:
N-Special: Shake It!. Amigo shakes his maracas and dances. Not only is this a counter move, but if he’s able to connect to the Speakers he creates, he’ll be able to amplify his music and force any opponent near him or a speaker to dance/taunt uncontrollably, allowing him to combo well.
S-Special: Uplifting Beat. Amigo shakes his maracas as the beat amplifies around him and causes an anti-gravity attack. This lifts opponents upwards or downwards in an infinite hold, until they attack or Amigo attacks them. He can also use this to recover himself, as it lifts him a bit, allowing him to quickly use his U-Air to recover.
U-Special: Sombrero Spin. He spins as he shakes his maracas, causing the beat to propel him upwards in a tornado of musical notes and beat. His hat reaches a higher height than him, but always falls fast to return to Amigo. Deals 12% to anybody who interacts with the Sombrero Spin.
D-Special: Speaker. Amigo jumps and shakes his maracas as a speaker rises from the ground, as both a platform and a tool for Amigo to use. It can take up to 20% before breaking, but when Amigo has 2 (the limit) speakers up and performs Shake It, he’ll cause everyone to uncontrollably taunt/dance for about 10 seconds, allowing him to take the opportunity to combo.


Final Smash: Samba de Smash. Amigo jumps into the air as cacti and speakers rise from the ground. He shakes his maracas as the “beat” blasts through a certain area, dealing 20% to whoever is in that area. By tilting the Control Stick and tapping the Special button, a certain area will be blast by the beat. This allows him to reach everywhere at once. During this attack, Samba de Janeiro plays and by the end, Amigo will perform a pose as the entire stage is covered in beat, dealing 10% to all on-stage.
Taunts:

• Up Taunt: Amigo jumps back and forth similar to Diddy's Down Taunt, but shakes his maracas instead of clapping.
• Side Taunt: Amigo throws his hat up into the air and jumps and spins as it lands on him perfectly.
• Down Taunt: Amigo does the "Monkey" dance (think Johnny Bravo.)

Logo: A maraca.
Victory Theme: A few notes of Samba de Janiero.

Thoughts?

 

[ForwardArrow]

Can I just take some humor at the fact that you still think you need to respond to that post. I mean it was a joke Smady made in response to what seemed like an apparent insult that was literally one line and then Smashboards goes down for a month and you think it's still relevant.

It's not fair for me to just make some snide remark towards you in a post without giving you some form of legitamate feedback as well I suppose though, so how about I comment Robotnik even if it's not technically your set. As you did apparently make some contributions to the brainstorming process and all that.

Robotnik
No I'm not disgusted with this set's mere existence nor do I think it's anywhere near the worst thing posted this contest. The minion's self destructing properties at least give them a little more value as a threat and for what it's worth, some of the interactions on Down Smash were actually pretty cool, and there's at least an attempt at decent interactions in the FSmash just allowing you to detonate your minions in a much cleaner fashion. Sure it's high points aren't exactly innovative in the minion genre, but they serve their purpose and generally showcase the wacky technology the character is known for.

Unfortunately where the set falls apart is when it steps into using Robotnik's melee attacks, especially as awkward minion commands. Frankly, if I want to attack I don't want it to reposition my minion after having my set up the way I want it just to save myself in melee combat. It makes Robotnik annoying to use in melee combat... which is awkward when you decide to give him so many straight melee moves with the properties of kicking the crab minion stitched on which. I mean why is Robotnik fighting with punches and kicks anyway. Sure it's Smash Bros and most people do that but this is literally a fat man who is always hiding behind his tech and is helpless without it, and when the cool parts of his gameplay come from

I think everyone's mentioned the Neutral Special but the logic that Junahu used to justify it is really wonky. Having one move define how everyone plays against you and forcing them to play an absurdly cautious game for fear of a 4 second stun is just awful and makes the game painful for the opponent. Sure an opponent could hypothetically play around it but what it does to severely limit their options isn't interesting even if it creates a different metagame. The metagame it's creating is just inferior in that it's less fun for both players and makes actually pulling off some cool stunt with Robotnik's minions an invalid strategy as opposed to simply trying to snare them in your portal from hell. Time mechanics like say, N. Tropy's projectile saves or Kang's time travel are something a foe could more reasonably react too and actually expand his game rather than compressing it into a game of "land the stun move". It's just kind of messed up to throw all time mechanics under the rug as inferior to some horrendously overpowered stun, and in practice I really doubt your logic would ever be justified. 3 hours admittedly makes the grab game a bit more understandable but viewed objectively no throws is a pretty big deducting factor from a set, especially when said grab is literally just a long range stun and nothing else.

To clarify this set's existence definitely isn't a bad thing as there are some occasional cool ideas in here and a lot can be learned from it's mistakes, nor is it especially awful. The execution is just very poor in a lot of places.

 

[FrozenRoy]

Heh, I've had a Glass Joe moveset in mind for a while. Maybe I'll make it after you post yours, as long as you're cool with it in the same contest.

 

[Davidreamcatcha]

Can I just take some humor at the fact that you still think you need to respond to that post. I mean it was a joke Smady made in response to what seemed like an apparent insult that was literally one line and then Smashboards goes down for a month and you think it's still relevant.

I watched Jane die.

I was there.

And I watched her die.

I watched her overdose and choke to death. I could've saved her, but I didn't.

Thank you for your comment.

 

[Agi]

Let's not. Please, let's not.

SWF just came back, we're not going to have a completely unnecessary spamwar shut down the thread. Dave, stop.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

So, Glass Joe? Next time. But first...





Pichu returns with a spiked ear... Wha? So, Spiky-Ear-Pichu?

Playstyle:
So, use a sword and slice and dice me, but I'm keeping the recoil.

*flame shield equip*

Anyway, Pichu, though having the recoil, has different moves to go with than just a copy-paste from melee. Sure, some moves are the same, and some are from 64's Pikachu, just for some buffing and nerfing.

Really, you NEED strategy. Using the recoil moves is beneficial and not, so strategy is key. Comboing is a huge part, and, my god, that S-Special(Sorry, it's not one of the same moves).

Statistics:
Pichu is easily comparible to Melee Pichu, but the weight has increased slightly so Mega Man cant Crash Bomb spam, and is a bit faster on ground, attack, and air speed. Falling speed has dramaticly decreased, so his air game is good.

MOVESET

JAB ATTACK: HEADBUTT
Pichu does the dreaded 64 Pikachu's Headbutt attack. Although, damage has decreased to 2% per Headbutt, and it isnt as spamy as it was in 64. So, it is a weaker and slower version of 64 Headbutt. It's good for some tacking damage and stopping attacks. Because the first headbutt comes out so quickly that right when you touch the button, it comes out.

DASH ATTACK: ROLLOUT
This is comparable to a combo of Jigglypuff's Rollout and Sonic's Dash. Though, he turns into a rock. This makes the attack affected by slopes and drops. It is a great move if you want to drop on an opponent or if you want to come down a slope fast. It does 6%.

F-TILT: TAIL WHIP
Pichu has another combo F-Tilt. He'll swing his tail once horizontally, doing 5%. Next, he'll swing it downward via flipping, doing 7%. This comes out, meh-y. It's great for starting up a combo, especially with the horizontal strike. This should be used to start one of those never-ending combos. Especially when I release the specials and aerials.

U-TILT: DIZZY PUNCH
Pichu does, well, an uppercut. It'll also have the ducks at the end of the attack like in the Pokemon games. Doing 3% and having some startup lag, it also has a 5% chance of making a foe dizzy. GREAT last resort move, as teaming the dizziness with a fully-charged smash attack will put a foe on the ropes. Chance taking is key to mastering this moves usefulness.

D-TILT: MUD SLAP
Pichu will put his arm up, and mud will appear. He'll then slap the ground, and mud will splatter up. MOST ending lag of all his moves, but has a side effect of a pitfall effect. A button masher wont have a problem escaping this, but it's still useful in dire situations. 9%.

F-SMASH: IRON TAIL
Pichu's tail will turn into iron, then swing at the chosen moment. Huge startup and ending lag, but makes up for it with it's decent-for-Pichu 16% damage at max. Best finisher in his moveset, and it doesn't even do the most damage, but we'll get to that later.

U-SMASH: FRUSTRATION
With a mad expression, Pichu will crouch, before jumping up and doing a double uppercut. Doing 14% max, it has a hitbox that rival's Jigglypuff's B-Air's. It also increases in strength the more damage it takes, maxing at 140%, every 10% doing 1% damage more. Good Last Resort move(Hey, both up-ground moves for last resort. Merp), and really good racker.

D-SMASH: DOUBLE TEAM
A combo of what Double Team does in the anime and Olimar's D-Smash, Pichu will create 2 clones to come out of him and strike whatever, and they travel a full battlefield platform each. This is crowd control at best, and they do 16% maximum. It's great for ranged and powerful hits, although it has a bit of ending lag.

N-AERIAL: THUNDER WAVE
Just saying this now, all aerials are thunder wave in they're respective directions, just saying. The neutral version surounds his own body and releases waves 1/4 of a battlefield platform around him. It'll also slow fall speed, so there's that. Overall, it does 18% electric damage max, but 2% recoil.

F-AERIAL AND BASICALLY ALL THE OTHER AERIALS: DIRECTIONAL THUNDER WAVE
So, ya. All other aerials are almost he same. The waves each go 1 1/2 battlefield platforms in their respective directions, they all do electrical damage, and they all do 2% recoil. The only difference other than directions is that D-Aerial does a good spike. All the others can be used for combos and racking up damage.

PUMMEL: THUNDERSHOCK
Good news. Even though it is an electrical attack, it doesnt have any recoil. Anyways, after grabbing a foe, Pichu will shock them with a bolt. It does 3% damage, and is a great racker.

F-THROW: PICHUUUU PAWNCH
Wow, that title. Anyway, Pichu throws the opponent, jumps, and before they touch the ground, punches them. Doing 17% and having a meteor effect if used next to a ledge, it is a good attack despite it's 3% recoil, and can be used for a quick kill.

U-THROW: PETAL DANCE
Pichu spins around, and petals come up, damaging the target with 13%. It'll make Pichu dizzy if used 3 times in a row with no moves in between, and is great for spacing. Be careful though, as that dizziness is pretty deathly.

B-THROW: THUNDER KICK
Pichu throws the target behind him, then he kicks them. Electrical hitbox, and you know what that means, recoil, 3% at that, but it has 12% to make up for it,

D-THROW: THUNDER JUMP
Pretty self explanatory. He lays the foe down, and jumps on them, electrifying them. 2% recoil, and 8% overall. It has that D-Throw meteor effect, and is a good quick finisher.

N-SPECIAL: THUNDERSHOCK
Pichu shoots an electric bolt that travels all of Final Destination. It has that recoil of 4% and 11% damage. Problem is, is that it leaves Pichu completely open afterwards. It has that cool range, though.

S-SPECIAL: VOLT TACKLE
OO! 10% RECOIL! YAAAAY! Ya, he travels 3/4 of Final Destination, covered in electricity that's 2 crouching Game & Watch's in all directions. It does 20%, but has that huge recoil. Use this as a crazy finisher.

D-SPECIAL: THUNDERRRRRR BOOOOOOOOOOLT!
With the startup lag of Lucas's U-Smash, He'll shoot lighting out of his body in all cardinal drections. Doing 5% recoil, and 19% damage, it's a powerful attack going 3/4 of Final Destination. though, it has a ton of ending lag.

U-SPECIAL: QUICK ATTACK
Pichu speedily goes 5 snakes in the air in a zigzagy way, doing no damage. It doesnt have a recoil effect, but the downside isthat you cant change direction during the attack, so it's always vertical, but it's a good recovery.

FINAL SMASH: RAICHU
Pichu evolves into Raichu. He keeps Pichu's own moves, but knockback is doubled. All stats are also doubled, and it lasts 30 seconds. Great Final Smash, if you know what i mean.

 

[TWILTHERO]

*SHING*​

*SHING*​

*SHING*​

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TWILT's note: Not gonna lie, I just made this set because I really like the character. I was having fun with set until I came midway towards the aerials, and it came out way more simple than I'd like and I felt less motivated to finish the set as I went on. It WAS supposed to be part of something bigger, but plans change and well, least I finished it, and aside from Photobucket being a pain when I tried to upload the gifs, it was a lot of fun to make the set and I have no regrets. Cheers.

 

[FrozenRoy]

I'm not commenting right now, but I have ranked 8 more sets, so check it out all.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Where can i check it

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Accidential double post

 

[FrozenRoy]

Sorry about that, I thought it included my siggy (Where you can check it out by clicking the Aradia gif)

http://smashboards.com/threads/countering.102597/#post-2478012

There is direct link.

 

[Junahu]

No I'm not disgusted with this set's mere existence nor do I think it's anywhere near the worst thing posted this contest. The minion's self destructing properties at least give them a little more value as a threat and for what it's worth, some of the interactions on Down Smash were actually pretty cool, and there's at least an attempt at decent interactions in the FSmash just allowing you to detonate your minions in a much cleaner fashion. Sure it's high points aren't exactly innovative in the minion genre, but they serve their purpose and generally showcase the wacky technology the character is known for.

Thank you for the comment. It's nice to have something to respond to on my first day back from abroad.

Thematically, the moveset was originally posted for Dr Eggman (Sonic 06), and a lot of the quirks in it were allowed to stay (or even deliberately integrated into the set) because of that fact. Sonic 06 is a game that, deep down inside, has the beating heart of a functional game, yet is rendered virtually unplayable by a myriad of lazy shortcuts and technical issues.

I wasn't persuing my usual quality of moveset work, but I'm not going to disown this moveset either. It was uniquely suitable for the subject material it covered and its original reading audience of one man.
That Dave found the moveset enjoyable enough to repost here for everyone else to see, is proof enough to me that the moveset was successful in what it set out to do.

Unfortunately where the set falls apart is when it steps into using Robotnik's melee attacks, especially as awkward minion commands. Frankly, if I want to attack I don't want it to reposition my minion after having my set up the way I want it just to save myself in melee combat. It makes Robotnik annoying to use in melee combat... which is awkward when you decide to give him so many straight melee moves with the properties of kicking the crab minion stitched on which. I mean why is Robotnik fighting with punches and kicks anyway. Sure it's Smash Bros and most people do that but this is literally a fat man who is always hiding behind his tech and is helpless without it

Your issue about melee attacks commanding minions would have have generated more empathy from me, if most veterens in MYM hadn't already made movesets with this exact same problem. At least here, the moves that are also attacks are pretty lousy as attacks, so players only use the hitboxes to cover for the lag of the command.
[Incidentally, kicking the crab minion was the primary function of the attack you mentioned. The actual hitbox of the kick is what was "stitched on"]

I think everyone's mentioned the Neutral Special but the logic that Junahu used to justify it is really wonky. Having one move define how everyone plays against you and forcing them to play an absurdly cautious game for fear of a 4 second stun is just awful and makes the game painful for the opponent. Sure an opponent could hypothetically play around it but what it does to severely limit their options isn't interesting even if it creates a different metagame. The metagame it's creating is just inferior in that it's less fun for both players and makes actually pulling off some cool stunt with Robotnik's minions an invalid strategy as opposed to simply trying to snare them in your portal from hell. Time mechanics like say, N. Tropy's projectile saves or Kang's time travel are something a foe could more reasonably react to and actually expand his game rather than compressing it into a game of "land the stun move"

I need to object to your simplification of the time mechanic as being "4 seconds of stun". Stun implies that the character is immobile and inactive for that period, which they most certainly are not. And it's not a case of 'they may as well be stunned for 4 seconds', because the effect of this mechanic on the match is nothing like 'avoid the 4 second stun'. At its most basic level of meta-play your opponent will change the way they move and how often they perform empty attacks, lay traps, etc, to render themselves safer in the event that they end up getting caught by this attack. Yes, you could technically pour your efforts into avoiding that one attack, but that's why there are minions here, so Robotnik can alter his gameplan to keep the threat of that attack alive.

In hindsight I can see some glaring abuses of the mechanic. For example, Robotnik's Up Smash which the foe would have no capacity to avoid. I accept that kind of issue as being a problem , but I do not accept the mechanic itself as being a problem. It's what gives this moveset the unique play it has. If you want to number crunch it down to sending the foe back 4 seconds and making them relive just 2.5 seconds of their past or something, I wouldn't object. But I maintain the position that it is an interesting mechanic, particularly as a theoretical exercise.

 

[ForwardArrow]

My belief is that while arguably there are things a player can do to protect themselves during the 4 second downtime, I don't think it's possible to really have an issue abusing a foe whose actions you know exactly for the next 4 seconds. It's possible that some really really heavy stage control characters can handle that sort of thing, but someone like, say, Sonic(somewhat ironic considering who the set is for) has moves that can be easily outprioritized and the closest thing he has to a defense measure is running away and... well that's not exactly going to work out when you know exactly where he's going to run on the honestly quite small stages in Brawl. Obviously some characters even in Brawl don't get destroyed that badly, but the point remains when you can exactly predict everything that will happen in the next 4 seconds, it's not much worse than a 4 second stun. I see that you're trying to create a new type of gameplay and on paper you make it sound interesting, but at worst it's 4 seconds of set up time for landing the move and frequently it's outright lethal as you set a robot to explode right in their face at the end after piling on 70% or so.

As for the minion commands, in most other sets this sort of thing is easier to undo or the effect is basically all upside, though I won't say the problem doesn't come up in other sets. It just sticks out like a sore thumb here when his melee attacks do nothing else other than feel awkward on this character with ludicrous amounts of technology he'd be better off using than his own pathetic fists.

Also if this Robotnik is meant to represent the one in Sonic 06, it seems weird to give him so many inputs from games that are not Sonic 06, particularly the bloody Time Eater from Sonic Generations of all things. I'm actually not offended by the prospect of a set having flaws but representing the source material through those flaws(although that doesn't mean I'll vote the set just because it has an excuse for it's issues), but when it draws inspiration from so many incarnations of Robotnik it's harder for me to think of that as a fair excuse. That may just be a result of how David choose to present the set though.

Oh there is a set on this page I should be commenting shouldn't I?

Strider Hiryu
I admit that your sets have not really appealed to me in the past at all so I came into Strider with very low expectations... and I came out finding it was better than I expected. The set at least provides a rather unique rushdown tool in the Up Special with both the kick and regular variations allowing for some potentially cool combos, and the Up Smash bird just adds to the decent array of options you have here. He's a bit more straight rushdown aside from those moves, but the fact that he's got a few versatile options in the specials (particularly the DSpecial) and the ability to use a large number of his attacks as projectiles makes me think he at least has more depth than is immediately apparent.

That said there are a few technical issues here and there, namely the mechanic. I imagine that cutting projectiles out of the air and dicing up traps is fun on paper, but characters heavily reliant on those things are pretty screwed over against Strider, never mind the melee characters who always lose in priority battles to literally every sword attack in his set. It's just unfair to a large portion of both Brawl and MYM sets, and it's not like he was exactly underpowered without it when his combo options are a fair bit more advanced than most Brawl characters and his damage, speed, KO percents, and range aren't exactly awful. Lastly, I'd agree with you that the set reaches a point it seems to run low on inspiration, with a few input cop-outs such as the Pummel/Back Throw(I don't demand a creative back throw but can you at least give us a slighly different animation and damage percent or something?) Regardless while I will say I'm not a fan of the set, at the very least I think it's a clear step up from your other work and it wouldn't be too hard to improve for you to improve from here.

 

[Junahu]

I still feel you're overestimating what this moveset can do to an opponent within 4 seconds. His melee game isn't especially strong, and anything meaningful involving minions would require setting up just prior to landing the time control attack. The awkwardness in commanding minions, the inability to summon the main minions in front of the foe (or near yourself). Things like these present challenges to the player that make it harder to capitalise on the moments when you do get to send the foe back in time. The foe themselves can put themselves out there and hobble your setting up, rendering your time control useful only to buy the time to set things back up again.
As I mentioned before though, there are still abuses, and those are vexing. I admit that. But if another MYMer took the idea and gave it more due care and attention, I'd certainly like to see the resulting set.

I can't say all too much on the melee attacks. It was a choice made to give Eggman an awkward feel in melee combat. Giving him too much tech to use when cornered would make him feel competant in a short ranged scrap, which he isn't.

Sonic 06's Dr Eggman does randomly have a time machine, which he uses to hurl Sonic and his friends through time. His ultimate goal in that game is to gain control of Solaris so that he can have total dominance over time itself.
The original moveset was almost entirely based around things that the 06 incarnation of Eggman had and did. Dave's alterations substituted most of the Sonic 06 things for equivilents from elsewhere in the Sonic canon. This was done, because of our mutual understanding that Dave presenting this moveset to others as "Sonic 06 Eggman" could prevent readers from taking the ideas it presents seriously. I get the feeling I was probably wrong in making that assessment. But hey, we live and learn.

 

[TheKalmarKing]

Strider Hiryu

I like this set; Why? Because it's very simple and engaging to read, the character is totally respected and the gameplay is very correct too. I particularily liked the "Smash" input on every attack past the smashes, namely the aerials and the grabs. I'm kinda a fan of Smash inputs. (However, I'd say the Smash B-Air is too powerful... Okay, there's an half-second of startup, but still!) Also, the fact that you can actually jump and ride on his robotic companions is very fun to me, it's got to be one my favorite aprts of the set! About the Cypher meechanic, it's true it's a bit broken: absolute priority against bare-handed fighters and projectile users? Isn't that a bit too much? Personally, I would have moved this effect to the N-Spec, where it would have been temporary. Finally, I can say that while it was a pretty fun read, the set could probably have digged deeper in Strider Hiryu's gameplay, but since you admitted that flaw, I won't hold it against you.

Spiky-Eared Pichu

Congrats, StaffofSmashing! You made the first completely random set of the contest! Cheers!

No seriously, let's see where the set filled me with incomprehension:

"DASH ATTACK: ROLLOUT
This is comparable to a combo of Jigglypuff's Rollout and Sonic's Dash. Though, he turns into a rock. This makes the attack affected by slopes and drops. It is a great move if you want to drop on an opponent or if you want to come down a slope fast. It does 6%."

Random petrification and random slopes-and-drops (To speak in your own terms) use? In a Pichu set?

"D-TILT: MUD SLAP
Pichu will put his arm up, and mud will appear. He'll then slap the ground, and mud will splatter up. MOST ending lag of all his moves, but has a side effect of a pitfall effect. A button masher wont have a problem escaping this, but it's still useful in dire situations. 9%."

Random pitfalling? IN A PICHU SET?

"U-SMASH: FRUSTRATION
With a mad expression, Pichu will crouch, before jumping up and doing a double uppercut"

Didn't know Knuckle Joe was giving fighting lessons to small animals, does he give lessons to cats too? Because I'd really like to see my cat do a Shoryuken.

"U-THROW: PETAL DANCE
Pichu spins around, and petals come up, damaging the target with 13%. It'll make Pichu dizzy if used 3 times in a row with no moves in between, and is great for spacing. Be careful though, as that dizziness is pretty deathly."

Why the dizziness? Why the petals? Why would anybody use it three times in a row if it's so great for spacing? And why are all the grabs so powerful???

Those were my favorite random moments in the set, but there is many more in the actual set. Though rejoice, SOS: I think that actually was pretty funny.

 

[FrozenRoy]

Excuse me, Kalmar, I believe SSB Luigi is the first completely random set of the contest. Either that or MYM's first collective drug trip. Possibly both.

 

[FrozenRoy]

"But I maintain the position that it is an interesting mechanic, particularly as a theoretical exercise."

i don't want to respond to the rest, but I've been reading up on some things, so I wanted to state an opinion on something: Ultimately, even if something is interesting, you have to consider if it is fun, or a good idea for other reasons. Just because something is "interesting", or even theoritically interesting, does not make it good.

"Your issue about melee attacks commanding minions would have have generated more empathy from me, if most veterens in MYM hadn't already made movesets with this exact same problem."

Also, as I understand it, most veterans now consider it a mistake. Just because people made a mistake does not mean it stops being a mistake, it just means they either did not realize it at the time or blundered.

(As a note: I feel that commanding your minions with melee attacks has places where it is worth it, but Eggman was not one of them.)

"But hey, we live and learn."

Hanging on the edge of tomorrow?

 

[Kholdstare]

While I was busy playing GTAV, building MtG decks, and jerking off, SWF revived. Huh. Well I guess I better do something to show I still care about this thing besides daydreaming.

 

[Junahu]

I don't want to respond to the rest, but I've been reading up on some things, so I wanted to state an opinion on something: Ultimately, even if something is interesting, you have to consider if it is fun, or a good idea for other reasons. Just because something is "interesting", or even theoritically interesting, does not make it good.

That's a good design lesson for people to take on-board. Something that is fun to create, or fun to imagine, or fun to read, or fun to discuss, still needs to be fun in practice.

I'm a teensy bit annoyed that you made that point on the back of this moveset, because yeah, I considered and weighted the idea as much as I could in the limited time frame I gave myself to create the moveset. Beyond numbercrunching the length of the status, and various exploits that make the mechanic itself shallower, I do consider the idea to be good, and fun, and various other buzz words.

But then again, I'm a proud stubborn fellow, so I like everything I make.

Hanging on the edge of tomorrow?

It's what I'm made of

 

[APC99]

Sorry about that, I thought it included my siggy (Where you can check it out by clicking the Aradia gif)

http://smashboards.com/threads/countering.102597/#post-2478012

There is direct link.

FrozenRoy,

As a striving moveset designer (and a new one at that), I'd truly like to know why my movesets rank so low. If you could possibly PM me or answer me, I'd like you to tell me things I need to do in order to improve by dissecting my movesets and telling me what's wrong with them. I just don't exactly want to be the guy who's movesets aren't even 5/10. I want to improve as a movesetter, and I'm currently working on another moveset right now. I just would like some input from a moveset designer on what I'm not doing right. Thanks in advance.

 

[FrozenRoy]

Heh, sorry, I haven't had time for comments, so I sort of just had to rank without doing that. I don't have time to do so now (I actually just woke up, but am going back to bed so I can wake up for football), but feel free to shoot any specific questions and I will answer them alongside giving some personal advice. I'll also try to comment, though most likely not tomorrow (Football sunday!)

 

[n88]

FrozenRoy,

As a striving moveset designer (and a new one at that), I'd truly like to know why my movesets rank so low. If you could possibly PM me or answer me, I'd like you to tell me things I need to do in order to improve by dissecting my movesets and telling me what's wrong with them. I just don't exactly want to be the guy who's movesets aren't even 5/10. I want to improve as a movesetter, and I'm currently working on another moveset right now. I just would like some input from a moveset designer on what I'm not doing right. Thanks in advance.

Since you're looking for critique and I'm kind of a Ridley fan, let's talk Ridley! The first thing I think you need to work out is presentation. Here's a somewhat dated but still relevant guide to the basics of how to lay out your moveset, and here are some slightly less dated thoughts on presentation (there are a lot of good reads on that wordpress; poke around a little if you have time). Ridley's lack of headers, one-tone color scheme and strange choice of artwork (I'd recommend something a little more official-looking) aren't going to do much to grab the reader's attention, and putting it in the same post as another unrelated moveset is also a little strange. If you want some role models on how to make a set look pretty, Twilt has a pretty nice-looking Strider set just down the page from your Ridley. Delving into MYM's back-catalog, here are some really nice-looking movesets (1, 2, 3), and here are some sets that don't do anything spectacular but are still pretty easy on the eyes (1, 2, 3). It's usually not much work to make your set look good, and it will do wonders for you in the getting-people-to-read-your-work department (arguably the most important department there is, and also the most poorly-named).

Getting into the actual meat of the moveset, you've got a small error in the omission of the UAir, and the NAir being lumped in with the Smashes, but that sort of thing is easily fixed. What this moveset really seems to lack is a vision for the character; this is why most movesets include a playstyle section at the end. Said section serves as a way to sum up the character's strategies, strengths and weaknesses, and overall gameplan. You've got a good handle on the individual sorts of attacks Ridley should have, and there's certainly creativity on display here (Ridley's grabbing and flying away with opponents gets a big thumbs up, though I'm not completely sold on the mechanism for doing it; I think you could manage the same effect in a way that doesn't violate the normal control scheme), but ultimately, I'm not sure what it all adds up to.

Generally, what you're shooting for with forming a playstyle is to make sure that not only do the individual components (attacks, general stats, and any special mechanics) suit the character, but also that all these components form into one cohesive whole that also reflects the character. If that sounds intimidating, don't worry about it; it's something that nobody just suddenly gets. If you want to improve, my advice is to read other people's sets, write comments, read comments, and don't be afraid to engage people in conversation. Also, as far as movesetting is concerned, don't do anything that you can't have fun with; it invariably turns out to not be worth it.

A lot of this has been more general advice than specific Ridley critique, I realize, but I think you'll find the former more helpful. Best of luck, and hoping to see more from you!

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Strider Hiryu

In an effort to contribute to this thread's waning activity, here's my two cents.

Hiryu falls into many of the same tropes as a lot of similar characters; he's fast, he has range, and he even has that lovable slide kick that likes to pop up every so often. That's not to say the set fails to differentiate itself, but rather, I feel like the character is pretty much portrayed as accurately as possible. Which, I suppose, in a way, makes it difficult to differentiate itself. But I am a quibbler.

The extreme range on so many of Hiryu's moves make him a deadly contender; with his amazing speed and plethora of projectiles, the range on his attacks seemingly serve to make him radically frustrating to fight against, and to top it all off, his nearly unmatched priority makes him scarily powerful. As FA said, the sword attacks eating through projectiles and outprioritizing all melee attacks makes Strider a pain for both projectile- and melee-heavy characters, so no matter what range he or his opponent fights at, Strider has the advantage. The amount of range on this guy alone is pretty nuts, as almost all of his projectiles are screen-wide in range, which almost makes them redundant with one another. The Down Special orbs in particular are mentioned as being used for eating through attacks, but pretty much everything in Hiryu's arsenal serves the same purpose.

On the subject of specials, I like Up Special's combo options and unconventional means of determining distance. I also like the Side Special's multiple functions and the way that it interacts with recovery (ditto for the Up Smash). Down Special, however, I just find redundant, though it's among the more interesting of the projectiles in the set. I don't like the Neutral Special in that it gives Strider a boost I feel that he doesn't need, and the sword beams are just excessive, considering his already fantastic range.

Some more things that I consider positive are the "crumpling" Down Throw, which is unique and useful, and the cancelable Up Tilt. Oh, and the satellite which can be used to cover for another attack's startup (not that he really needs much help in that department).

Not really sure how to end this comment. Overall, I'd rank the set a 7/10. It has everything it needs to be considered a "good" set, but nothing that really made me think of it as "great". Sorry if that all sounded really negative.

 

[TWILTHERO]

Much thanks to the people who commented Strider Hiryu! ^^

As for complaints, I know the number one complaint people think is Hiryu's blade is ridiculously good, being able to cut through anything. In it's defense, it's exactly how it works in the Strider games. I wanted to be an as accurate as a representation of the character as possible and him being really good kind of makes sense with him being a Special A class Strider. I suppose I could move the effect to his neutral special or maybe make it exclusive to a few attacks. I still feel that other weapon-based characters who can rush Hiryu down before he can get a chance to establish himself would give him trouble since he doesn't necessarily have a "get off me!" move (I suppose maybe the down special, but even then they don't do anything if Hiryu's suffering hit/blockstun.) I don't deny he could use some nerfing though.

Still much appreciated for the comments guys. Glad you enjoyed reading if you did. =P

 

[APC99]

Since you're looking for critique and I'm kind of a Ridley fan, let's talk Ridley! The first thing I think you need to work out is presentation. Here's a somewhat dated but still relevant guide to the basics of how to lay out your moveset, and here are some slightly less dated thoughts on presentation (there are a lot of good reads on that wordpress; poke around a little if you have time). Ridley's lack of headers, one-tone color scheme and strange choice of artwork (I'd recommend something a little more official-looking) aren't going to do much to grab the reader's attention, and putting it in the same post as another unrelated moveset is also a little strange. If you want some role models on how to make a set look pretty, Twilt has a pretty nice-looking Strider set just down the page from your Ridley. Delving into MYM's back-catalog, here are some really nice-looking movesets (1, 2, 3), and here are some sets that don't do anything spectacular but are still pretty easy on the eyes (1, 2, 3). It's usually not much work to make your set look good, and it will do wonders for you in the getting-people-to-read-your-work department (arguably the most important department there is, and also the most poorly-named).

Getting into the actual meat of the moveset, you've got a small error in the omission of the UAir, and the NAir being lumped in with the Smashes, but that sort of thing is easily fixed. What this moveset really seems to lack is a vision for the character; this is why most movesets include a playstyle section at the end. Said section serves as a way to sum up the character's strategies, strengths and weaknesses, and overall gameplan. You've got a good handle on the individual sorts of attacks Ridley should have, and there's certainly creativity on display here (Ridley's grabbing and flying away with opponents gets a big thumbs up, though I'm not completely sold on the mechanism for doing it; I think you could manage the same effect in a way that doesn't violate the normal control scheme), but ultimately, I'm not sure what it all adds up to.

Generally, what you're shooting for with forming a playstyle is to make sure that not only do the individual components (attacks, general stats, and any special mechanics) suit the character, but also that all these components form into one cohesive whole that also reflects the character. If that sounds intimidating, don't worry about it; it's something that nobody just suddenly gets. If you want to improve, my advice is to read other people's sets, write comments, read comments, and don't be afraid to engage people in conversation. Also, as far as movesetting is concerned, don't do anything that you can't have fun with; it invariably turns out to not be worth it.

A lot of this has been more general advice than specific Ridley critique, I realize, but I think you'll find the former more helpful. Best of luck, and hoping to see more from you!

Thank you very much! Ridley (and Amigo) were posted just to add to my former sets (The presentation was lackluster this time due to the fact that my family pulled me off the computer last-second) and they were actually kind of leftovers from an idea I had for a fan game, so I thought I'd post 'em here. I'm planning on getting back into making some decent movesets (I'm trying to get a feel for characters to make the presentation fitting) but I really do appreciate critique now and then. My best movesets are probably Elec Man and Magnet Man, but I'm kind of shocked that Elec Man got a rating of 3/10.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Thank you very much! Ridley (and Amigo) were posted just to add to my former sets (The presentation was lackluster this time due to the fact that my family pulled me off the computer last-second) and they were actually kind of leftovers from an idea I had for a fan game, so I thought I'd post 'em here. I'm planning on getting back into making some decent movesets (I'm trying to get a feel for characters to make the presentation fitting) but I really do appreciate critique now and then. My best movesets are probably Elec Man and Magnet Man, but I'm kind of shocked that Elec Man got a rating of 3/10.

Shocked Elec Man got a 3/10

Is that an intentional pun?

 

[Chris Sifniotis]

Hello, I've been considering posting at least one moveset here since the return of the forums, but I'm utterly terrified of being very foolish going about it. I'm in the process of fine tuning stats and damage, my main question is is a thread about my character and its moveset necessary to enter the contest, or just a post with all the info here?

 

[Katapultar]

You just need to post all the character information and moveset here in this thread. No need to make a new thread just for that.

 

[Chris Sifniotis]

Thanks, I much prefer to sound stupid than act stupid. ^^;

 

[FrozenRoy]

While not exactly related to what is being talked about right now, I thought that it would be a good idea to make a post saying my 5120 word article on "top down design" is now up on the Bunker/Plaza and can be seen here!

 

[APC99]

Shocked Elec Man got a 3/10

Is that an intentional pun?

Actually, no. But funny how things work out!

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

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Jet the Parrot Hawk is one of the many rivals of Sonic the Hedgehog, appearing in the Sonic Riders series of racing games. Known as The Legendary Wind Master, he is considered the greatest practitioner of Extreme Gear racing in the world, and seeks to prove that he is faster in the air than Sonic is altogether. His personal gear, Type-J, is a special air board model outfitted with specs specifically designed to emphasize and amplify his affinity for speed. Jet is extremely cocky, and is a terrible sportsman, snubbing his victories in his opponents' noses and throwing a fit whenever he loses. He is notably the leader of the Babylon Rogues, a small band of professional Extreme Gear experts who also specialize in thievery. This small circle is descended directly from the original Gear riders, an ancient precursor civilization of extraterrestrial, avian, Babylonian genies. No, seriously. I can't write this stuff. Unfortunately, this prestigious legacy has only contributed to Jet's narcissistic attitude, leading him to believe it was his destiny to uncover the Babylon Garden, lost to the sands of time. In Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Jet acquires an Ark of the Cosmos, an ancient, bracelet-like device that allows the wielder to manipulate gravity.

In Smash Bros, Jet sticks to what he does best: riding Extreme Gear. He takes his Type-J air board into battle, always riding atop it as it hovers about three inches off of the ground. While he is still vulnerable to earth-based attacks and tripping like other characters, his board allows him to “stand” while moving, which comes with several perks, such as the abilities to shield, spotdodge (portrayed in the form of Jet weaving into the background or foreground, making it a relatively long-lasting dodge), perform ground attacks (except for Ftilt and Fsmash), grab, and even taunt while “dashing” - all without losing speed or momentum. Jet doesn't roll-dodge like other characters, and instead either spins on his board while dipping into the backward or foreground (forward), or kicks backward on his board and propels himself backward (backward). Unlike other characters, Jet doesn't have three levels of ground movement, each with its own speed. He can only stop or go, picking up speed as he goes, reaching max speed after 1.5 seconds of uninterrupted movement.

Even though Type-J comes outfitted with the standard levitation capabilities of all Extreme Gear, it doesn't grant Jet any more than the normal ground jump and midair jump, the first of which is a modest hop and latter of which is a pretty low-reaching heelflip. It doesn't allow him to glide either; however, Jet's anti-gravity abilities allow him to cling to walls, which is one of the very few times he'll dismount his board (he'll hang on to the wall with one arm while holding his board in his other arm). Jet also gets a short wall-jump out of this deal, though it's nothing to write home about.

Size >> 5
Weight >> 6
Ground Speed >> 10
Traction >> 1
Jumping >> 3
Air Speed >> 8
Gravity >> 5

Lining up Jet's stats, it's apparent where he really shines. He rivals Sonic in terms of ground speed, but only after he's accelerated of course. Sonic is also a good comparison to draw in envisioning some of Jet's other traits. Jet himself is the same size as the blue hedgehog, but his board adds more mass to his model, and he stands taller because he's always levitating off of the ground. He's also a tier heavier than Sonic, thanks to his board, though his light avian skeleton balances that out and prevents him from being too much heavier. He's in between Lucario and Wolf on the weight scale, making him a decent survivalist on weight alone.

While Jet's ground speed is absolutely fantastic, however, his traction is terrible, a result of his Gear's slippery hover mechanics, which make braking a bit delayed and turning difficult. Jet's turning speed is comparable to that of Wario, making him most vulnerable when repositioning himself. On the plus side, he's also got a great air speed that, while slower than his ground speed, doesn't require momentum to reach max velocity. Unfortunately, his jumps themselves are lackluster, with his first placing him 1.5 Ganondorfs in height into the air, and his second barely lifting him at all, much like Peach's second jump. Lastly, his fall speed is just about average, a compromise between his board's weight and hovering properties. If you're playing as Jet, you'll probably want to be in the air regardless.

Neutral Special – Gravity Control

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This is Gravity Control. It controls gravity. Jet uses his Ark of the Cosmos to warp gravity to his pleasing. Holding the special move will create a colorless space distortion effect in a circular area within a radial 2.5 character spaces of Jet, wherever he is. As time slows around Jet, he floats in midair; if used on the ground, Jet will lift off of the ground slightly. The player can then use the control stick to position Jet to face in any direction they wish. It takes a short amount of time for Jet to turn himself, but when the special move button is released, he instantly darts in the direction he's facing in a burst of speed slightly faster than his max dash speed. Jet travels at this speed for 5 character spaces before returning to normal speed and falling back down to Earth. If Jet comes into contact with a solid surface at any time during his launch, he will use gravity to stick to that surface and use it as flooring. This means that walls and ceilings are fair game for Jet to play around with, and he can use them just as he would the actual ground, being able to attack and move around in the same exact way. Controls don't get reversed, however, so if you're upside down, for example, you'll still need to press up for an Up Tilt, even though Jet would technically be attacking downwards, and you'll still have to use left and right to control your movement even if you're riding up a wall. At any time during Jet's stasis before launching, the move can be canceled via the shield button. If the special move button is not released after 4 seconds, the move will be canceled automatically, and Jet will simply drop back to the ground with any jumps he may have had left intact.

Gravity Control can be used up to three times before touching back down, and neither uses up nor refreshes Jet's jumps, though if it is used all three times before landing, Jet is put into a semi-special fall that prevents him from using his specials until he touches ground (other surfaces acting as ground due to a gravity shift do not count). Obviously, Gravity Control is an excellent move to use for mobility and recovery. Its use is not limited to just that, however. Anyone and anything in the gravity field around Jet during this move's start-up is launched in the same direction that he is. Opponents suffer 5% damage and travel the same distance that Jet does, though with proper DI they can slightly lessen this. While this can be used for some cruel KO's near the blast zone, it more importantly allows Jet to toss any item or projectile as a flying weapon of his own, and since he's propelled along with his projectiles, he can follow up a hit in a myriad of ways; he can be on top of his foe before they even recover from a previous hit. He can also cause foes and certain items (things like crates and capsules will just break upon contact) to cling to surfaces, though in the case of other characters, they will only be momentarily pressed up against the surface before falling. Other objects stick indefinitely, even after Jet himself drops back down to the ground.

Up Special – Gravity Dive
Jet charges a great amount of gravity power, stalling his descent if in the air, and after .75 seconds, instantly launches himself at Gravity Control speed in any direction inputted via the joystick. Unlike with Gravity Control, Jet flies so freely that he gets off of his board and simply holds it with one arm as he flies the distance of ¾ of Final Destination's length. One might think that, with Jet's ability to boost himself in any direction up to three times with Gravity Control, he wouldn't need an Up Special recovery move in addition to that. Gravity Dive differs, however, in that it cannot be used multiple times, and because it requires so much gravity energy, it cannot be used in the same jump as Gravity Control; it's one or the other. Also unlike Gravity Control, it deals no direct damage. It's also just as useful for launching projectiles, though this time other players are unaffected, and because Gravity Dive's charge period lacks an energy field, objects need to be much closer to Jet – within one character space – to be launched. Projectiles are launched ahead of Jet, providing significant cover for the hawk should he be recovering, especially useful since he cannot sweetspot the ledge with this move.

Here's the really fun part, though: if Jet runs into a floating object or surface while using Gravity Dive, he'll perform a secondary technique, a Meteor Burst. Jet will rebound off of the surface (meaning he can't stick to it as with Gravity Control) at an insane speed (basically, twice his dash speed), and rocket at an angle in the direction he was traveling (slightly alterable by the player) for 5 character spaces, becoming a hitbox of death that deals 15% damage and kills at as low as 75% on some characters. Jet will instantly enter special fall after this short burst, though if he contacts another surface during the Meteor Burst window, he will use the technique again. In a closed-in area, Jet can turn himself into a pinball of destruction.

Unlike with Gravity Control, Gravity Dive puts Jet into full-on special fall. It can get Jet farther more quickly than its Neutral Special counterpart, but it's only good for one use at a time and has less technical application overall. If Jet aims himself into the ground, the momentum carries over, putting him into his dash at top speed.

Side Special – Tornado
This move causes Jet to twirl around quickly on his board, conjuring a dark grey tornado behind him. The vortex is about 1 character space in width and 1.5 Ganondorfs in height. It travels backward along the ground or in the air at Jigglypuff's walk speed for a short distance, determined by Jet's speed when the move was used. If used when idle, it peters out after moving just ½ of a Battlefield platform, and if used at top speed, it moves for half of Final Destination's length.

Of course, the tornado will stop moving if it contacts an opponent, which is what you'll want it to ultimately do. Enemies suffer 8% damage and are instantly launched out of the top of the tornado with modest knockback, dying at ~190%. Of course, tornadoes are subject to gravity as any other projectiles are, and you can get creative with how you flip them around. Fling them (or drop them) onto walls to make them shoot enemies horizontally, or place them on ceilings to meteor enemies downward.

Down Special – Remote Explosive
Poor, pathetic Jet. He can have all of the skill and gravity-warping powers anyone could ever ask for, but at the end of the day, he's still a sneaky little thief. Standard fair for those in his line of work, a remote bomb was Jet's claim to fame in the EX-World Grand Prix when his partner, Wave, had Sonic's Gear rigged with one, causing the blue blur to lose the race after his board detonated right before the finish line. While it's not known if Jet himself gave to go-ahead on this; while he develops a sense of honor later on in the series, it's not suspect to believe that he'd resort to underhanded tactics when pushed to his limits.

The Babylon Rogues remote bomb is a tiny micro-explosive which is administered to surfaces. With the use of Down Special, Jet plants the barely-detectable bomb on the ground below him, or slaps it onto an opponent or surface should he be near one. The timing for this is actually rather strict, as Jet has to be right on top of the enemy, and when traveling as fast as he does, that can be more difficult than it sounds. Should Jet miss, he fumbles a bit, nearly falling off his board.

When the Down Special is inputted again, Jet retrieves a small black control box with a red button on it, and you can guess what happens next, especially if you're familiar with how Snake's C4s work. If the input is simply tapped, the explosive begins rapidly blinking in white flashes; the bomb is set for a countdown, detonating after 5 seconds. If the input is held just a bit longer than a mere tap, Jet will detonate the bomb on command. Unlike Snake, Jet gives no audio clue that he will detonate the bomb, and he moves so much more quickly that it may be hard to see the move's visual cue as well. A visual cue does exist, however, as the small explosive will flash in a red light just once just before it explodes, allowing a quick opponent to shield beforehand. The remote bomb deals 17% damage and high vertical knockback, killing off the top at about 140%.

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A direct kill is not the main draw of the remote explosive, however. If the bomb goes off on a surface such as a wall or floor, large, boulder-sized chunks of rubble are blown out of the surface (though the terrain doesn't change), providing shrapnel that hit for hefty chunks of damage ranging from 13 to 20%. Remember how Jet can Meteor Burst off of a surface or floating object? This is where the floating objects come in. If Jet launches these slabs of earth with Gravity Control or Gravity Dive, then contacts them in the air with Gravity Dive, he will Meteor Burst off of them. This will destroy them instantly, though they normally have 25% of HP. Jet can also fling them onto walls and ceilings with Gravity Control to position them any way he wishes, causing them to stick, as he can do with his tornadoes. If Jet uses Gravity Control to lift these slabs into the air and then cancels the move, they will continue to float around for about 5 seconds before falling, during which time they can be used as surfaces to Dive off, makeshift barriers, or obstacles to limit the foe's mobility (and thus, chances of escaping a pursuing Jet). Combined with tornadoes, they can be a real pain.

Speaking of tornadoes, those come into play as well, as they will pick up debris from the explosive as they pass by and twirl it around, upping their damage output significantly to about 25%, and will launch the boulders as projectiles out of their tops and upward when they dissipate. The rubble will shatter if it touches the ground, but tornadoes are still an excellent way to get boulders up into the air for Jet to Dive into, as normal attacks won't budge them.

Jab – Poke
Jet leans forward while grinning and, using his index and middle finger on one extended arm...pokes the opponent, aiming for the eyes. Wait, what? Darn that dirty little cheater. There is next to no knockback accompanying this attack, but a solid 4-5% damage is still dealt, and the flinching pain of having one's eyes poked casts high stun on the opponent. Like all of Jet's moves, this is more effective while riding along. If Jet can turn around quickly enough, he can possibly follow-up on this immature maneuver. Not really anything special, but it has its place. Make sure to only tap, not hold, the attack button while dashing, or else Jet will use his...

Dash Attack – Boost
One of the most important moves in Jet's arsenal. The hawk activates the boost function on his Gear, instantly picking up an increased burst of speed that lasts for .75 seconds. As he does this, he pulls out his two bashōsen, wing-like fan weapons, and performs a cross-chopping maneuver. Though the range in front of Jet is disappointingly low, the slice comes out incredibly quickly, and the opponent suffers very weak vertical knockback that, at low percentages, allows this move to be used repeatedly, much like Fox Illusion. 9% damage is also dealt.

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Boost is more important for its use in mobility. Upping Jet's already astounding dash speed is very useful. While there is a half-second wait period for this move after it ends, that's hardly a problem when Jet can cover so much distance in just one use. Use Boost to disorient your opponent with insane speed and leave them in the dust. In true modern Sonic tradition, BOOST TO WIN.

Forward Tilt – Air Board Batter
Jet can only perform this attack when standing still, as the Ftilt input is read as a Dash Attack while moving.

Because it can only be used while idle anyway, this is one of the only two moves that Jet performs while standing on the ground with his own two feet. Jet quickly hops off his board and swings it horizontally with both arms, providing a hitbox that extends a Kirby's width in front of himself. Surprisingly, the attack has a solid amount of horizontal knockback, and deals 8% damage. Getting hit by a thick, metal machine packs quite a wallop, and a sharp metallic clang sound accompanies an impact. As an added bonus, Jet bats back any projectiles that contact the board during the frontal swing frames of the attack, giving him a way to combat projectile abusers that would otherwise make it impossible for him to move about freely without having to stop and use Gravity Control. Of course, because this move is so fast, both to start and end, timing is strict.

Back Tilt - Drift
Yep, a Back Tilt. As compensation for not having a Forward Tilt while dashing, Jet gets a Back Tilt that he can only use while dashing. Using the drift function of his Gear, Jet quickly leans into a turn, smacking foes he turns from with his board as he does so. It's a weak attack, with low knockback and a 6% damage output, but it's a key move to make use of, allowing Jet to turn around while attacking. With how vulnerable his constant motion makes him, this attack gives Jet a way to even up the playing field. It's a bit slower than simply pivot turning, however.

Up Tilt – Sneeze

Believe it or not, sneezing is one of Jet's canon abilities. The obnoxious bird reels back on his board, raising his face upward, and lets out a narmy “AH-CHOO!”, which sends out a small spray of mucus above him. Though it's a tiny bit telegraphed as Jet reels back before actually sneezing, the actual sneeze comes out very quickly. The sheer surprise of it all gives the attack a powerful jolt, providing it with good knockback that sends foes diagonally up in front of Jet. 7% damage is given.

Down Tilt – Talon
Holding himself up on his board with one arm and one leg, Jet sticks his other leg outward in front of him, reaching half of Kirby's width in range. While not too impressive in range, Jet compensates with his speed and the briskness with which this attack comes out. Jet holds this pose for half a second, booting enemies upward should he run into them, dealing 7% damage and knocking them into the air behind him a short distance. Perfect for follow-up by pivoting and chasing, or for sending enemies careening into tornados or debris.

Forward Smash – Air Board Bash
No, Jet doesn't have a Back Smash to make up for his lack of a dashing Fsmash. While standing still, Jet will raise his Gear over his head with both arms, holding it at the back, then swing the board downward, leaning into the attack. A resonating metallic sound accompanies this move as it collides, dealing 14-19% damage. Knockback is similar to that of Falco's Fsmash, and is relatively low. The attack is also a bit slow to start-up and has some cooldown, but its range is deceptively high. Use it to knock enemies a short distance, then follow up.

Up Smash – Rising Wing
Jet pulls out a bashōsen and strikes upward with it, swinging its wide side upward from his waist to above his face. When fully charged, he uses two bashōsen simultaneously. Opponents take 13-19% damage, and vertical (or forward diagonal) knockback, based on DI. Quick to start, it's a useful move while dashing, and is useful in knocking foes into the prime position for an aerial follow-up, or into a tornado active on a wall or ceiling.

Down Smash – Twister
Jet quickly horizontally spins around atop his board in quick, rapid revolutions. While dashing, he'll travel 1 SBB during this move's duration. While the move is composed of multiple hitboxes, it doesn't deal much damage, ranging from 11-17%; the final hit launches. Knockback is low, but highly variable; the opponent's DI is very effective at determining where they will be sent. That being said, Gravity Control lets you follow them wherever they choose to go, of course.

Neutral Aerial – 360
Jet performs a backflip, flying in a single, circular rotation. Similarly to Lucario's Nair, the 360 has a long frame duration, and Jet will fall some distance before he can use this move again. Needless to say, it can be used once out of a short hop, but prepare for some punishable landing lag.

This move has two uses. First, as a standard attack, it comes out quickly, and contact with Jet's board deals a solid 13% damage. Contact with Jet's body sourspots, knocking that down to just 6%. Dealing moderate knockback based on the direction Jet's board is swinging when the attack lands, it's an effective tool for positioning, and Jet's key go-to move for starting chases in the air.

Jet also projects a field of gravity control around himself when using this move, which is active in a Kirby-width diameter around him. The gravity field deflects projectiles, making it a good coverage move when approaching; always be cautious of its landing lag, however, which makes Jet vulnerable regardless of this move's defensive properties.

Forward Aerial – Claw

Jet quickly positions himself so that his board is pointing upward at an angle, holding onto its side with one arm, and pulls upward, with his board acting as a hitbox as he rises, visually appearing to "ride" up an invisible wall in the air, similarly to the above animation, but with his board positioned more vertically. This move boosts Jet a short distance into the air, though its cooldown prevents him from using it quickly enough to retain height indefinitely. The hit frames encompass the immediate area in front of Jet, and he creates a “swish” of wind to visually represent where the AoE is. A bit lower in range than a move using his board might suggest, the move is very quick, delivering a light hit that deals 9% damage. Knockback is modest and vertical, with launch distance increasing based on where the opponent is hit – the closer to the move's tip, the more distance they receive. It's an excellent move for keeping foes in the air.

Back Aerial – Hawk Tail
A simple attack which sees Jet horizontally rotate himself in midair, spinning at an upward angle while crouching and holding onto the side of his board with one hand. Jet smacks enemies behind him with the back of his board as he turns; a very solid hit that deals 10% and low knockback, allowing for easy chasing. Using the move flips Jet around, as with Marth's Bair, which allows him to retain his momentum in the air, much as his Btilt does on the ground. Because he can turn while attacking, Hawk Tail gives Jet a highly aggressive option while in the air.

Up Aerial – Wing
Jet grabs onto the front of his board with one arm, tilting his board at an upward angle, and backflips, similarly to his Fair, though this time, the AoE is above him, in an arc. Also like Fair, it's quick, though just a tad slower. 8-9% damage is dealt.

Opponents hit by the attack's starting frames are swept backwards behind Jet as he flips, placing them right behind him, setting up perfectly into Bair. At low percentages with poor DI, the two moves can link into one another quite nicely.

Down Aerial – Wind Burst
Jet stalls in the air for a brief moment, then immediately dives downward at a 35° angle, with a visual burst of air spreading out from his board. Foes contacted by Jet during his dive suffer 11% damage and are dragged along with him as he travels, being put into a prone state if they hit the ground. This is Jet's slowest aerial to start up, but is useful in retaining speed, as all aerial speed and momentum will be retained if Jet touches ground during the use of this move. The hawk coolly transitions into his dash, and at top speed too, if his air speed was high enough when landing. Use that speed to chase after your grounded enemy after they tech.

Grab
Jet can definitely claim to have the best dash grab in the game, as he can grab at any time while riding along the ground. With no fear of speed loss should he miss, the only negative consequence of a whiffed grab attempt is a slight recovery animation. Jet's grab animation is pretty standard; he leans into a short-ranged, one-handed grab, wobbling on one leg should he miss. If he connects, Jet will hold his prey up by their collar, smirking, and will continue moving forward if he was dashing. He will automatically stop upon reaching a ledge, so there's no worry about (or use in) suiciding. Since you can move while holding your opponent, you're gifted with the ability to deviously bring your foe into the range needed to toss them into any traps or compromising position you want.

Jet's grab attack is an incredibly quick peck with his beak. Each hit dealing 1-2% damage, Jet can fire these off in quick succession. You can rack up a lot of damage while holding the enemy, but make sure to do it quickly, as they'll still break out at normal difficulty, and if you're trying to toss them at a certain point in your dash, you'll have to be on your toes.

Forward Throw – Gravity Toss
Holding an arm straight and palm exposed, Jet uses gravity power to indirectly toss his opponent forward, releasing them with a swipe of his arm. This can actually be angled to shoot either straight forward, or at a 35° angle upward or downward. 9% damage is dealt as the enemy takes low knockback. Opponents tossed upward enter an aerial tumbling animation which Jet can take advantage of, while those thrown downward are proned. If they rise quickly enough, Jet can grab them again out of a dash.

Back Throw – Babylon Boot
Jet quickly tosses his captive behind him and kicks them forcefully with one leg, giving them the boot. This deals low horizontal knockback and 7% damage, and Jet can quickly turn to follow up on this move. It's also useful in knocking foes into tornados, or dropping tornados on them.

Up Throw – Wing Toss
In a rather smug show of expertise, Jet swings one leg upward, booting the enemy into the air, immediately pulling out his two bashōsen. Jet jumps – still riding along with his board somehow - and strikes the foe by swinging both weapons upward simultaneously, as in his Up Smash. 11% damage is given, with 5% allotted to the kick and 7% to the bashōsen strike. Moderate vertical knockback is also given.

You can get some air with this move by inputting a Forward Aerial during the first few frames in which Jet is jumping, transitioning from the initial kick to his Fair in place of the bashōsen attack. This combination usually links together rather reliably; use it to force foes into the air and let loose with some crazy strings.

Down Throw – Grinder
Maliciously, Jet tosses his captive to the ground beneath his board, and, smirking all the while, adopts a pose one would when grinding on a rail, applying pressure with his weight and raking the opponent between his board and the ground. The enemy is grinded for .85 seconds, and is then released right behind Jet in a prone state. The attack deals rapid, stacking hits that deal 1% damage each, adding up to 11% total.

If Jet uses this throw while standing, he simply presses down on his board (dealing 8%) before releasing the enemy, but while dashing, more devious options open up, as Jet drags the opponent along the ground as he goes. This can be used to drag enemies right into tornados, which will pick them up immediately upon contact. Alternatively, you can drop a tornado on a proned opponent, hoping they roll into it. The throw can also be used to drag foes into remote explosives planted on the ground, where the bombs will then stick to them. Jet can even drag his captive into debris created by his bombs, a tactic whereby he will automatically and forcefully kick his enemy into the boulder, destroying it and adding a painful dose of 18% damage to this attack.

After being entrusted with all five of the Arks of the Cosmos following the events of Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Jet has access to immense power. Together, these ancient devices are capable of world-destroying gravity control.

After grabbing a Smash Ball with his excellent feats of speed and maneuverability, Jet raises an arm straight up as the five arks emit from and levitate in an orbit around his open palm. In a bout of prideful self-exaltation, Jet proclaims loudly that “Now, you'll see my true power!”

Immediately, a large black hole, taking the form of a black-purple sphere, forms in the air above Jet. With a circumference equal to that of a Smart Bomb explosion, the black hole's danger zone is extended to include a visible area the range of its own radius, apparent by the swirling wisps of dark matter being pulled into the vortex. For the next 12 seconds, the black hole occupies a stationary space, and immediately KO's anyone who may contact it, other than Jet himself. The outer AoE is a vacuum that pulls opponents inward, being more deadly for lighter and slower characters who can't as easily break away from its pull. During the duration of the Final Smash, Jet and his opponents are free to move about as they please, giving you, the player, opportune time to pester your enemies into the swirling death trap. While tossing foes with Gravity Control is the obvious go-to strategy, dragging or tossing opponents into the spherical monstrosity out of a dashing grab is possible as well. The black hole also pulls in tornadoes and debris laying in its pull range at Donkey Kong's dash speed, however, so trapping foes in tornadoes as they fly toward the black hole can also seal their fate. Of course, iterative players can simply attempt to batter their foes into range with normal attacks. If you fail to score any direct kills with this Final Smash, you can hopefully at least deal some damage with flying debris, which give out 28% damage a pop as they careen toward the vortex of no return.

Catch Me if You Can​

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Want to earn more than just a melancholic victory? Like Jet, as hawk, you can rattle some nests if you know what you're doing. Like the Sonic Riders games themselves, Jet may come off as a little complex at first, but his game is really quite simple once you get accustomed to its intricacies. Jet is a mobile fighter who uses his mobility to string together long chains of attacks. Gravity Control and Gravity Dive allow Jet to get from Point A to Point B on a dime, and with up to three uses of GC per jump, Jet can spend a lot of time in the air, where he's at home. Anti-gravity keeps Jet in the air along with his opponents, allowing him to force his foe's positioning and beat them around like a ragdoll. Jet's gravity powers also allow him to run around over any solid surface he wants, following his enemy wherever they may go. This greatly expands his options, allowing him greater access to his entire movepool – for instance, hitting aerial opponents with a ground attack by shifting himself onto a wall.

While not necessarily a trap-focused character, Jet uses his mobility to interact with elements such as his bombs, debris, and tornadoes. All of these hazards are used to control the stage and push enemies into positions where he can further assault them with his quick, linking direct attacks. Free to not only create hazards wherever he wishes, Jet can also project them onto other surfaces to force his opponents into further compromising scenarios. Positioning of debris is a key component of Jet's more advanced tricks, as landing a Meteor Burst is a rewarding way to score an early kill, especially useful considering Jet's underwhelming power otherwise.

If Jet could be described with one word, that term would be “transition”. While he excels in the air, Jet is not useless on the ground. His ability to attack while dashing opens up options that most other characters lack, as he doesn't have to compromise momentum to land the majority of his attacks. Most of his ground moves assist Jet by in some way contributing to getting his enemies airborne. Building momentum on the ground, chasing opponents, and then pursuing foes into the air is Jet's ultimate goal in dealing damage. Placement of tornadoes is helpful in getting foes into the air where Jet wants them, and he has several ways to link into a well-placed tornado by using throws, knockback, and reads out of forced prone positions. Projectiles tossed at foes with Gravity Control and Gravity Dive, rubble from remote explosives in particular, assist Jet by stunning enemies while he's moving with them, allowing him to jump on his foes while they're still recovering from a previous hit. Jet's speed allows him to chase and catch opponents after an attack; like a true raptor, he's unremitting in his pursuit of his prey. From ground to air, and even from air to ground through the use of Gravity Dive and Down Aerial, Jet is free and able to chase and rush-down his foes anywhere on the stage. With such an exorbitant allotment of time that Jet can spend in the air, he's capable of following his target far off-stage with little worry of not making it back.

What you'll want to watch out for is leaving yourself vulnerable. Jet's got some cooldown on a few of his moves, especially grounded ones, and while his ability to attack while moving is useful in keeping him safe, an opponent with sufficient foresight can still give Jet a taste of his own medicine by meeting him at a vulnerable point and punishing him. Once attacked, Jet is vulnerable to being combo'd and juggled due to his floatiness and sometimes overly specialized attacks, most of which are only really useful for offense, and not defense. Much like Fox or Falco, Jet is excellent at building momentum and applying pressure, but one wrong mistake leaves him just as vulnerable to pressure. Even something as simple as getting grabbed can ruin a perfect instance of momentum. With Jet, momentum is everything, and should always be kept going for as long as possible in order to make the most of his playstyle. That's really what it's all about when playing Jet: get crazy and move around. Don't let your sights off of your opponent, always know where they're going to be before they get there, and meet them at every turn. It's a fairly simple rushdown playstyle with a unique twist. Learn how to ride Extreme Gear like the best, and you'll show everyone why Babylon makes the rules.

Entrance – Arriving on the Wind
Jet flies onto the stage on his Extreme Gear, expertly lands while tucking the board underneath his arm, and combs his head feathers back with the other arm, taunting “No way I'm gonna lose!”

Up Taunt – For the Sport
Jet swipes his goggles down over his eyes. He will wear them this way until the taunt is used again, when he will swipe them back onto his forehead.

Side Taunt – Key to Babylon
Retrieving his “Control Cube”, an artifact handed to him by his father, Jet lifts the mystical device to his face, quickly inspects it, then puts it away.

Down Taunt – Show-off
Jet performs a one-armed hand-stand on his board, front-flipping back into position.

Victory – Boastful Birdbrain
Jet, standing on the ground, begins tensing, trying to restrain a laugh, then bursts out laughing in a maniacal, horribly-voiced fit.

Victory – Rub it in
Flying in from the right side of the screen, Jet lands, kneels on one knee with his foot resting on his board hovering beside him, and condescendingly remarks to his opponents that “The dirt suits you so well.”

Victory – I'm Board of This
Jet spins around once while hovering a few feet off of the ground, and smirks, admonishing his opponents. “You should just give up.”

Victory – Special
If Jet has defeated his rival, Sonic, he'll arrogantly question his foe's ability, shouting “Ha! You're supposed to be the fastest thing alive?”, reusing the second victory animation.

Defeat – Bad Sport
Being the terrible sport that he is, Jet simply fumes at his loss, kicking his board and then crossing his arms, muttering patronizing gibberish under his breath.

 

[ForwardArrow]

Jet the Hawk
Quite pleased to see another set from you Turtles, especially after how solid Whiscash was. Jet actually has a pretty solid base too, with his specials allowing him to zip along the sides of any structure, create slow projectiles and traps along them, and create structures in fairly interesting ways with that awesome DSpecial. Sets that do "attacking in motion" were a big thing back in MYM11 and admittedly I felt most of them lacked any real depth and that playstyle was overused to hell, so it's nice to see you actually add some substance to it here... in the specials anyway. I think the standards, while functional and occasionally having a decent twist or two thrown in there, are a pretty big let down and yes I understand this isn't exactly an easy character, but I wish the attacks had a little more depth to them than the occasional suggestion of knocking a foe into a tornado or reflecting a projectile, or having one specific follow up. I'm not saying the attacks later on have to be flashy and interaction heavy, but I'd like a little more than what I got later on in the set, say something on par with what Whiscash had past the specials. I wouldn't call this a bad set though on account of what you set up at the start, but I can't really say I like it when it drops off so badly later either.

 

[n88]

Heyo! Just a quick post partially just for the sake of posting in the thread and partially to inform some of our new members who may not follow the Plaza that longtime MYM vet Hyper_Ridley recently posted a moveset for Omega Ridley [the guy is, if you couldn't tell, kind of a Ridley fan]. Check it out, poke around in MYM's closet, maybe check back in for new Plaza articles in the future.