Make Your Move 14 - This is Snake, I'm done here

[TheKalmarKing]

I'd like to talk about Robotnik. First, does the moves actually change from the original? Because I can't see any difference. Also, the set is at least okay, but it could have been improved by leaps and bounds with a little more thought. In the end, it's very shallow, there's nothing deep in that. Where I usually have to really think about the set to understand all of it's little interactions, here it's simple: summon a minion and KICK IT until you've won. That's exaggerated of course, but the set had potential... I feel it's kind of the beta version of the set, but there won't ever be any finished version.

 

[Katapultar]

Just so you have some better context; Dave and I challenged one another to write movesets for Robotnik/Eggman in 3 hours. It's true that the moveset here is primarily my handiwork, though it was inspired by my conversations with Dave, and my impressions on what, mechanically, he would enjoy seeing in a moveset. So I thoroughly accept this as being a joint moveset, albeit one I would have liked to spend more time making.

Ah, okay, it's all good then.

 

[Junahu]

Thank you everyone who took the time to read and comment Robotnik

I only skimmed over Robotnik; I'm strongly concerned that the Neutral Special is just plain overpowered, on the level of nearly being a win button. Forcing the opponent to relive four seconds without being able to change their behavior is incredibly punishing, as it should be trivial for a player paying attention to avoid any attacks they performed and rack up absurd damage. It's also plain unfun to be hit by, as it takes control away from the opponent for four seconds, forcing them to sit back and watch. I think time controlling projectiles and minions has more potential for interesting possibilities while staying balanced, and I think the move could have been a lot better if it did not directly affect players and focused on that aspect.

I'll readily concede that having control ripped from you for 4 seconds while the opponent wails on you is not fun (which is part of the reason I initially kept this moveset private), but being a terrifying threat is why this move is even interesting in the first place. Time travel? Yawn, been there done that. The interesting part is how the foe reacts to the knowledge that Robotnik has this move.
It's a very centralising attack, every match will end up focused on that one move; how to avoid it, how to land it, how to play so that your past actions will keep you as safe as possible in the event that you are hit, how to tease risky tactics out of the foe so that you can abuse the time travel more effectively... etc etc. It's still not even remotely fun of course, outside of armchair theorizing. But it does create the potential for some interesting emergant gameplay. And that's a road even I stroll down from time to time.

Incidentally, the low lag and range were details added by Dave. In the original moveset I left such points vague, with the implication that it would be mostly used as a punish, meaning that the matter of 'when' you can use this move effectively, is driven by the opponent.
(I didn't mean to pass the buck like that. It's in no way Dave's fault, I really should have been more clear about the move in the original set)

The inclusion of time travel in the set was a borderline parody btw.

I'd like to talk about Robotnik. First, does the moves actually change from the original? Because I can't see any difference. Also, the set is at least okay, but it could have been improved by leaps and bounds with a little more thought. In the end, it's very shallow, there's nothing deep in that. Where I usually have to really think about the set to understand all of it's little interactions, here it's simple: summon a minion and KICK IT until you've won. That's exaggerated of course, but the set had potential... I feel it's kind of the beta version of the set, but there won't ever be any finished version.

I agree that the moveset should have had a much longer gestation time. Though, if it weren't for Dave's 3 hour challenge, I would have never made this moveset to begin with, it would have been just too daunting a character to do justice.
I have to disagree on the point of it being super shallow though. Though the concepts were tremendously rushed, it's not purely a case of detonating robots on the foe.

Btw, I'm worried that you're conflating a deep moveset, with a complex one. As far as I see it, there shouldn't be little inconsequential interactions that pile up into a big confusing ball, every interaction should be meaningful and self evident, especially in a chaotic game like Super Smash Bros.

 

[TheKalmarKing]

I agree I exaggerrated the shallowness of the set. It's indeed false. But I still think that the set could have been far deeper: the Nspec could be much more interesting and the normals could be more helpful. But hey, the Ares set I'm preparing got interactions on EVERY move so I'm probably biased.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

≋Whiscash≋​

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Whiscash is Pokémon #340 from Generation III. A combination Water/Ground-type, it is a bulky, catfish-like creature, living in swampy ponds and lakes. Whiscash are highly territorial, and scare off intruders by creating violent earthquakes. When left alone, Whiscash are actually rather placid, and exhibit a slow, meandering set of behaviors that include plentiful sleeping among muddy lake bottoms. As is typical of catfish, their large mouths compliment their voracious appetites, and they're very indiscriminate about what they swallow.

The mud-basking, territorial aspects of this Pokémon's nature translate into its battle style.

≋Statistics≋​

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Size ~ 4​

Weight ~ 6​

Jumping ~ 3​

Ground Speed ~ 3​

Traction ~ 8​

Air Speed ~ 3​

Fall Speed ~ 7​

At first glance, Whiscash's stats may appear a bit...underwhelming; as any Pokémon player could tell you, this isn't very surprising. As a fish, Whiscash has an unorthodox body shape, and even odd for a fish at that. Whiscash's gravity is centered low to the ground, where it normally rests on its belly; it only reaches up to Mario's waist in height, which gives it an amazingly low crouch and the ability to crawl (which is actually more of a slither). Measured long-wise, however, it is about 1 and ½ Ivysaurs; most of Whiscash's mass is distributed in its width, which of course is not measured in the gameplay of Smash.

A solid weight keeps Whiscash down to Earth, but prevents it from being a natural tank. The mud- and water-drenched catfish isn't very graceful in the air, and it falls back down to the ground not much time after leaving it. Whiscash gets around on the ground by undulating its body and tail, and pulling itself along with its two pairs of flipper-like fins. As a catfish, it can spend ample time on land, so there's no worry about keeping itself hydrated, and it can “walk” as well as any real life terrestrially-enabled fish can. Sloshing about along the ground gives Whiscash a bit of a slippery slide under normal circumstances, but it's so bogged down by its center of gravity that its traction is evened out, making Whiscash's overall momentum about as fluid as a soil creep. Weighed down by its grounded composure and wet body, Whiscash doesn't move very gracefully through the air, though its aerial momentum isn't entirely lacking, and is more comparable to that of Dedede; that is to say, Whiscash is slow, but can get some sort of distance, albeit modestly.

Whiscash's wide body bestows the Pokémon with a very large mouth, which it uses to grab and operate items. Whiscash manipulates firearms by aiming them with its mouth and firing with its flexible whiskers. Whiscash also grabs ledges by engulfing them with its mouth.

≋Specials≋​

Down Special – Earthquake
Whiscash arches its body, curving its back inward, then hops an inch into the air, and comes down with a forceful body slam, creating a booming tremor. A seismic ripple travels along the ground, radiating out on either side from the epicenter below Whiscash, and reaching the entire width of the stage or platform effected. This shockwave is about as tall as Kirby, distorting the very shape of the ground and traveling outward at the speed of Fox's dash. Dealing up to 25% damage, the quake sends opponents in a vertical direction, and is a very powerful attack, KO'ing Bowser at 105%. Taking 2/3 of a second to initiate, the attack comes out rather quickly for such a powerful move, but this also makes its timing rather strict, as the fast-traveling quake has a limited window of effect before ending, and is incredibly telegraphed by any smart opponent.

When used in the air, Whiscash plummets straight down at the speed of Sonic's Dair, causing the quake upon landing. If the player holds downward on the control stick after the initial input, Whiscash will fall through platforms during its descent. Whiscash will always pass through opponents, and it can cancel the move and enter its normal fall state at the release of the special move button.

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Earthquake is Whiscash's sole definitive killing move, and despite its speed, its predictable nature and short duration make it easy for foes to simply avoid the move by staying in the air. In addition, high cooldown makes this move incredibly punishable. Don't throw it out willy-nilly. There is no true guaranteed “combo” into Earthquake in Whiscash's arsenal, but there are many ways for the fish to go about increasing its chances of hitting. To earn a kill, Whiscash must get creative in how it goes about the act, and 90% of the time, this will involve trying to land Earthquake. Just like in the Pokemon metagame.

Side Special – Mud Bomb
Whiscash's body bloats up for a short start-up, and it shoots a Smart Bomb-sized sphere of mud from its mouth at a low arc forward. The mud bomb is sent in a path reaching half the height of a lower Battlefield platform and the distance of 1.5 of said platforms, at a moderately slow speed, though it can be angled just slightly. If the attack collides with a foe during its flight, it deals 10% damage and decent stun, but nearly nonexistant knockback. The stun from this hit, granted the foe was on the ground, can possibly set up for a hit from Earthquake, but it can never be a guaranteed combo. Players can act out of the stun quickly enough to prevent such a simple trap from being successful.

When a mud bomb lands on the ground, it splatters into a mess of loess that occupies a Whiscash-sized area on the ground. Mud laying on the ground becomes a hazard for other players, something that Whiscash appreciates not only as a detriment to its enemies, but also as a way to make the stage feel more at home for itself. Opponents that pass over the mud become slowed as they trudge across the viscous material, cutting their ground speed down to 2/3 of what is normal. With Whiscash's enemies slowed, their momentum is also hindered, making a short hop or running escape away from Earthquake more difficult.

Unlike its opponents, Whiscash benefits from being in mud. It can move freely among the damp soil, unaffected by its speed-reducing qualities. By crouching, Whiscash can squish down into the substance, granting it light armor as long as it stays submerged. Rapidly tapping downward on the joystick causes Whiscash to perform a sort of “crouch dash dance”, a series of rapid flops that, when performed in mud for a complete two seconds, coats the fish with a layer of the sticky stuff, granting it light armor and decreasing damage taken from electrical attacks by 30% for seven seconds wherever it goes, before it all slips off.

There is no limit to how much mud Whiscash can place on the stage, which allows it to link together patches of mud to greatly limit how much safe ground is allowed for the foe to occupy. However, mud dries up and disappears 25 seconds after it is created, after which it must be replaced. When Earthquake is used on ground occupied by mud, the mud is flung 8 character spaces into the air, which can pelt unfortunate foes in the air, essentially acting as a midair mud bomb projectile. The mud is then “removed”.

Up Special – Water Sport
A move that differs between ground and air, Water Sport allows Whiscash to deploy yet another substance to hinder its foes. When used in the air as a recovery technique, Whiscash thrashes, releasing a spout of water ¾ of a Battlefield platform in width that shoots straight up into the air at the speed of Sonic's Spring Jump, reaching as high as an item tossed upward would travel. The splash deals no damage, but like Mario's FLUDD, pushes opponents. In this particular case, they are pushed upward, which not only protects Whiscash from those who wish to gimp from above, but can also be used for Whiscash to gimp recoveries of its own, or delay a fastfaller's descent until it wants them to land. Additionally, the force of the ejection sends Whiscash itself straight up about two Links in height. At the height of its jump, the water spewed upward plummets downward at an intense speed (the entire process from initiation to this point takes about 1.5 seconds). When it contacts Whiscash again (unless the player quickly techs sideways out of its range after initiating the move), it creates a splashing ripple of water that keeps the fish airborne, as it flails atop a “platform” of liquid. Whiscash can slowly travel left or right during this period, lasting for up to 1.5 seconds, before the water dissipates, and it enters freefall. Clearly, a better horizontal than vertical recovery. There also is no way to sweetspot the ledge during the animation of this move, so it's plain to see that this is not a very aerially-inclined fish.

When used on the ground, Whiscash also spews out a fountain of water, though it takes on a different shape, sending out two sprinkler-like streams at outward upward angles from either side of Whiscash's body. Launching in arcs, these streams of water travel the height of the lower Battlefield platforms and spread out the same distance that Mud Bomb does. This allows for easy positioning of where the water will land, which is vitally important. Like its airborne counterpart, Water Spout on the ground also pushes opponents. Those contacted by the fountain sprays as they travel are pushed in that direction, ending with them being sent to the ground and possibly sliding along the water as it travels outward.

Both forms of Water Spout place puddles of water on the stage, which is another substance that can hinder Whiscash's opponents. Water, as the second ingredient of Whiscash's swampy terrain concoction, culminates in shallow, ½ SBB puddles where Water Spout contacts the ground. When dashing over a puddle of water, opponents are prone to trip ½ of the time, forcing them to either limit their travel speed or stay in the air to prevent this. Like mud, water can be linked together, creating an inch-high pool for Whiscash to call its own. While traveling over water, Whiscash's speed is bumped up to a solid 7, greatly amplifying its offensive and defensive potential, and fire attacks deal less damage to both Whiscash and its enemies. However, like mud, water dries up after 25 seconds.

Water Spout's positioning, as stated before, is important, as it can either place water near mud, or contact the mud (this also works vise-versa) and create muddy water (not to be confused with the Pokémon attack Muddy Water), a third substance in Whiscash's claim to territory. Muddy water isn't difficult to trudge through like the more compact mud, nor does it cause foes to trip like pure water. Muddy water is more hindering than either of the two, as it drenches those who contact it, weighing them down with sediment and water that increases the foe's fall speed by 1.5x and halves their jump height. When combined with mud, a foe's stats can be reduced so greatly that they're put at a severe disadvantage. Muddy water plays well into leading foes into the other two substances, as a weighed-down foe is more likely to stumble into a trap they couldn't very well avoid by jumping; it should be noted that Earthquake, and indeed, all of Whiscash's moves, also become less potent due to the increase in “weight” given to opponents, which reduces the knockback they take. The advantages of having muddy water in play come at a cost for the player as well, as it is too viscous for Whiscash to speed its way through, and too liquified to offer it protective armor. As a minor plus, if Whiscash flops around in Muddy Water, it'll bog itself down enough to raise its weight by 1 unit, helping give it a bit more longevity. Whether in order to disorient opponents or directly benefit itself, Whiscash must be careful to know how to keep mud, water, and muddy water separate, as well as how to combine them.

Oh, and Earthquake also sends water and muddy water flying into the air, as it does with mud. So if Whiscash wants to get rid of his current set-up, an Earthquake or two will clean house for him. Or, it can wait 25 seconds for it all to dry up, though make note that mixing any two substances resets their longevity.

Neutral Special – Rest
Whiscash lazily dozes off, snoozing with a large bubble expanding and contracting over its mouth. This isn't a super-powerful last-resort move like a certain balloon Pokémon's. Rest is simply what it is implied to be. For every second that the button is held, Whiscash shaves off 1% damage. A minuscule amount, sure, but when one's opponents are slipping, sliding, and fumbling all over the place, taking time every now and then to sleep off even just a bit of damage can add up. Whiscash can successfully camp in a pool of mud, water, or muddy water, restoring health while opponents try to reach it, navigating through its self-made swampy domain. If Whiscash wishes to wake with a whammy, then pressing the special move button rather than releasing it will cause it to use Snore, popping the bubble over its mouth with a loud, belch-like action. This creates a “burst” that forms a hitbox in front of Whiscash. The larger the bubble is when Snore is used, the more damage is dealt, ranging from 5% to 15%. Knockback varies slightly as well, but never increases past a moderate (unfixed) horizontal launch.

Of course, one may choose to use Rest for more than sheer damage recovery. Sleeping in a battlefield of mud and water may not just be for protection. An opponent ponderously approaching can prove unsuspectingly baited into an attack should Whiscash choose to drop its torpid facade.

≋Standards≋​

Jab – Tickle​

Whiscash begins waving its whiskers in front of its face so long as the button is pressed or held. Contacted opponents are tickled, taking 1% damage per second (or every 4 “hits”) and knocked a very short distance forward. Tickled foes suffer delayed stun frames that last a bit longer than most attacks, leaving them open to a follow-up, although no character can be tickled indefinitely past 25%. While Earthquake is not quite fast enough to guarantee a hit following a good tickling, it is rather reliable to follow up with if a tickled opponent is bogged down by muddy water.

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Forward Tilt – Mud Slap
Whiscash curls up on its side, waving its tail forward. Normally a short-ranged attack, getting smacked by Whiscash's tail isn't an incredibly devastating development. A nice sting and low forward knockback is accompanied by a paltry 5% damage.

When used on top of or in front of mud or water, however, this move lives up to its name. Whiscash's tail flings a scoop of mud or water forward, using a disjointed hitbox to extend its range to that of Pikachu's Fsmash. The hitbox centered on Whiscash's tail deals 5% damage, while the flung fluvial, consisting of several small, quick hitboxes, provides decent stun comparable to Mud Bomb, and 6% damage. This move actually repositions stage elements; what is flung is taken from where it was picked up, allowing Whiscash to reposition its pools. While simply creating more would typically be the preferable option, Mud Slap allows Whiscash to manage the positioning of its mud and water more readily than with Mud Bomb or Water Spout, which have more startup and may not land on the ground if intercepted. It also allows Whiscash to keep pools of homogeneous substances in play while laying down new substances where they once rested. Foes hit by Whiscash's tail while it tosses hazards are generally sent to the same location as the mud itself, putting them into a restricting position.

Down Tilt – Gulp
Your hazards causing you more trouble than they're worth? In situations where completely removing a single placement of a substance is desired, Whiscash has this tool at its disposal. Whiscash opens its mouth wide and inhales everything in front of it for up to one character space for one second. This includes items (which Whiscash will then promptly swallow), its own substances, and other characters. Projectiles are unaffected, however. Characters aren't small enough to fit inside Whiscash's mouth, of course, and instead they become suctioned onto its lips. The fish Pokémon immediately ejects the opponent, dealing 5% damage and sending them forward at a moderate launch strength. Enemies sent flying into other enemies act as a hitbox.

When gulping down a nice swampy beverage of its own stage hazards, Whiscash swallows the substance entirely, completely removing it from play.

Up Tilt – Water Gun
Arcing its back, Whiscash brings its head upward and backward as it shoots a thin, slow-flowing stream of water from its pressed lips. Dealing 8% damage, the Water Gun attack covers a significant area in front of Whiscash, reaching two Battlefield platforms away and ¾ of the height of the top Battlefield platform at its peak. If shot over a bottomless pit, the water dissipates after a short distance, much like Squirtle's Water Gun. The stream moves as Whiscash's head does, providing a great defensive barrier for foes approaching from in front or out of a short hop. Although this move has little knockback, essentially grazing the opponent, it's useful for baiting foes back to the ground. It is also capable of creating puddles of water, so learning its aim is important.

Dash Attack – Thresh
Whiscash slides forward along the ground for the distance of Megaman's Fsmash, twisting itself into a horizontal circle while doing so. Whiscash's body acts as a hitbox, smacking foes it collides with decent force, dealing 11% damage and moderate knockback, with a vertical launch trajectory based on the frame of the attack. The entire animation is moderately quick to start up. Whiscash stops abruptly as it looses momentum, friction causing it to stop spinning and sliding at the animation's end. Highly punishable due to the slow ending frames, this move is a poor choice for mobility, and is best used as a way to barge through an enemy...


...That is, unless Whiscash is travelling over water, in which case, the fluidity brings more momentum. Whiscash will slide twice as far and much more quickly, making the attack frames of this move last just as long, but cover more distance, in addition to dragging the water along with it and divying it up along the ground as it goes. Likewise, by travelling over mud or loess liquid, Whiscash will also smear these substances along as it slides, allowing the Pokémon to extend the range of any of its puddles.

≋Smashes≋​

Up Smash – Water Pulse
Whiscash opens it mouth and fires out a Kirby-sized ring of water. Shot at a 45° upward angle at the speed of Fox's dash, its range can be increased from 4 character spaces to 8 through charge time. Foes hit by Water Pulse suffer 11-19% damage, and are put into an increased tumble state, similarly to the victim of a footstool, if hit while in the air. This allows Whiscash to capitalize on its opponents' vulnerability, though the move is more useful the closer the foe is to the ground when hit, as they have less time to react and break out of the tumble. When hit on the ground (this will typically be done to those standing on platforms), there is a 10% chance that the enemy will be "confused" and put into a "broken shield" state. Capitalize on their vulnerability while you can!

Down Smash – Bulldoze
Angrily brandishing its whiskers, the catfish Pokémon lifts an inch off of the ground, and after a slight delay after the input, a small tremor, concentrated in the two character spaces in front of itself, shakes up the ground. This quick quake lasts just a second, and deals 12-20% to anyone standing in the vicinity as well as causing them to trip. The move has a bit of cooldown, however, as Whiscash calms down and softly returns to the ground. Obviously, foes in the air are completely safe from this attack, and its propensity for being punished makes the move a risky one. Despite this, it is an excellent attack to punish rollers, potentially linking into itself, and can possibly set up for an Earthquake if the opponent is read correctly.

Substances in the vicinity of the tremor are shook back and forth, mixing them together should they lay close enough to one another.

Forward Smash – Surf
Whiscash takes a deep breath, then forcefully whips its tail in front of itself, conjuring a small wave only as tall as its own body. The wave travels forward for two SBBs at a rather slow speed comparable to Link's boomerang before dissipating in a splash, dealing 8-17% damage while pushing foes along with it, sending them a short distance forward after the attack's end. The wave picks up whatever substance it passes over, moving water with it, as well as moving mud and muddy water while becoming muddy water itself. This is a powerful positioning maneuver, relocating vast quantities of fluvial to be deposited a distance away in a concentrated spot. Less of Whiscash's placed materials are created out of none, making this one of Whiscash's most economical moves. Of course, if the wave passes over nothing, it simply deposits water where it ends.

The wave also travels off-stage if the situation provides, but it breaks upon leaving the ledge, always falling downward at a 35° angle and vanishing after falling just a short distance under the ledge. Foes hit by this stage of the attack suffer only a residual 4% damage and brief stun, but variables exist. Should the wave be composed of muddy water, it drenches foes with the normal muddy water status, weighing them down and posing a threat for recovering opponents.

≋Aerials≋​

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Neutral Aerial - Thrash​

Whiscash, nearly helpless in the air, stressfully thrashes about by swinging its tail, spinning around, and generally flailing about. This is all done relatively quickly, lasting just slightly longer than Lucas' Nair. As Whiscash thrashes, each individual movement is a separate hitbox, which deal about 3% damage each, with a possibility of 18% in total. However, they link poorly and carry a good amount of knockback, which knocks foes away too quickly to trap them but too weakly to kill before 175% on most characters. Generally, a great “get off of me” move for the catfish.

Forward Aerial – Aqua Tail
Whiscash performs a single horizonal flip in a sort of reverse animation of Pikachu's Back Aerial, swishing its tail. The back half of the Pokémon's body, coated in clear blue water, acts as a hitbox that smacks foes with a splashing tail whack. 12% damage is dealt, along with modest horizontal knockback and decent stun. Upon contacting a grounded foe, the enemy is tripped, making this a key approach out of a shorthop. However, the landing lag is less than desirable as Whiscash lands on its belly, so make sure you land it successfully.

Back Aerial – Tail Whack
Whiscash turns halfway to look behind itself while it lightly and tauntingly flicks its tail back and forth three times. Each wave deals a meager 3% and the whole maneuver is rather easy to DI out of. Whiscash can flick away a scoop of mud or liquid if this move is used near enough to the ground, being able to reposition the substance as with its Ftilt. This also extends the range of the move to the same length as its grounded version, making it an excellent choice to bait foes, provide pressure while spacing, safely escape through the air via shorthopping, or simply reposition stage elements. The hitbox of Whiscash's tail is buffed up to 3.5% per hit with a 6% damage output granted by tossed fluvial.

Up Aerial – Paddle Flip
Flipping backward, belly facing the screen, Whiscash arcs its back almost completely in a circle as it flops in the most elegant way one can imagine a dopey catfish doing. More like a fish out of water than a performing dolphin, Whiscash at least creates a lingering arc of water that emits from its tail as it flips. The watery trail dissipates very quickly, but it does provide a degree of buffering from above.

Whiscash's flip is a low-knockback move similar to Wolf's Uair that deals 7-8% damage and comes out quickly, though its jumping is too poor to chain the move together several times. The trail of water left behind deals 1% damage.

Down Aerial – Belly Flop
Whiscash plummets straight downward, with no ability to tech in either direction or cancel the move at all. Falling at the speed of Sonic's Dair as with Earthquake, the move bares a close resemblance to that move when it is used in the air. Unlike Earthquake, Belly Flop does not allow Whiscash to pass through platforms, nor does it pass through opponents. Enemies contacted by Whiscash as it falls are meteored, sent to the ground where it will land with a solid 18% damage. Upon touching down, Whiscash creates a small shockwave in its close proximity that pops foes into the air beside it, dealing 7% damage and giving it the chance to play off of another read. Additionally, as with Earthquake, Whiscash's hazards are sent up into the air, though only if they are within hitbox proximity. Because of this, Belly Flop is an excellent way to keep Whiscash relatively safe from both above and below, though do be sure to land at least one part of this attack, as the landing lag is only slightly less than that of Earthquake.

The visual similarities between Belly Flop and Earthquake provide Whiscash with the ability to play guessing games with its opponents. While Earthquake is incredibly telegraphed, Belly Flop is only superficially similar. Foes will never know whether to hop into the air to avoid a tremor, or stay on the ground to punish a missed Belly Flop.

≋Grab Game≋​

Grab and Pummel
Up until this point, one might have been wondering exactly how Whiscash's grab works. Whiskers? Grabbing with its whiskers? This isn't the Pokémon anime, with its Thunder Armor logic stretches. Instead, Whiscash once again relies on its mouth, making even the most anti-Freudian psychologists reconsider the mental health of this fish. Rather unorthodoxly, Whiscash flops into the air, belly or back turned toward the screen depending on the direction faced. Moving in a path Ganondorf-sized in height and half a character-space forward, Whiscash turns to face directly downward at the tip of its leap and opens its mouth wide, eating dirt should it fail to grab. If Whiscash manages to connect, its wide mouth completely engulfs the opponent's head, glomping down hard enough to secure a "grab". Whiscash, firmly gripping its prey's cranium, wobbles and writhes atop the foe in a comically widened position, its tail swishing from side to side.

Uniquely for a grab, the odd positioning requires the forward and backward throws to be mapped based on the direction the opponent, rather than the grabber, is facing. Additonally, since there's nothing restraining the opponent's movement, the grabee is not subjected to immobility. Rather, they are able to move back and forth, though movement is limited to a frustratingly-controlled flailing as they attempt to throw the fish off of their heads. The foe is only able to move back and forth in the range of about 1 Battlefield platform. Trying to break free from the grab is done just as with any other, which essentially forces the opponent to dash dance in order to break free.

Whiscash's grab attack, however, is a relatively quick, strong, squeezing bite (accompanied by Snake's neck-breaking sound effect) that can deal anywhere from 1.5% to 3% damage per pummel (with an bonus boost up to 4% when Whiscash has coated itself in muddy water, due to its weight increase), so there's no way you'll want to let your hostage go. Luckily, Whiscash can use its swampy terrain to help it keep an extended hold on its prey. If the grabbed opponent is standing over mud, their decreased speed will lower the speed at which they can break free, increasing the amount of grab attacks Whiscash can let out. Water, however, can spell trouble; if the opponent trips, Whiscash is automatically flung off, forcing the grab's release animation, which sees Whiscash flop about in a state of vulnerability. Compensation for having such a powerful grab game, Whiscash's grab release frames are more lengthy than its opponents'.

Forward Throw – Bait Release
Whiscash forcefully jerks to the direction the foe is facing in, throwing all of its weight forward with so much energy that the foe completely flips over. Whiscash releases its grip at the end of the flip, causing the enemy to fly forward in a toss with set knockback the length of half of Battlefield. Dealing a meager 8% damage, under normal circumstances, this is a weak throw.

Things get trickier when the foe is standing over water, however. When they trip (unless they're not even trying to break free, it's a matter of when, not if), should the player initiate this throw immediately as they tumble forward, the force of the trip transfers to Whiscash's own jerking maneuver, greatly increasing its strength and granting the move a strong, unset launch distance and bumping it up to 10% in damage. Possibly Whiscash's next real kill option after Earthquake, this technique is not without its risks, as the player must throw in the direction the enemy faces while tripping, which can be difficult to judge when they are quickly shaking back and forth. Failure to correctly initiate this boosted throw will simply end the grab as normal.

Back Throw – Grand Slam
Exerting all of its strength, Whiscash jerks in the reverse direction the opponent is facing, flipping them over backward and basically suplexing them. Bouncing the enemy off of the ground, Whiscash releases its grip. The opponent takes 10% damage and suffers moderate diagonal knockback, while Whiscash flops around on the ground for some lengthy cooldown frames. As the enemy will often be launched far enough to not punish while Whiscash is subject to too much end lag to follow-up, this throw is best reserved for situations in which the player wishes to dispose of the enemy long enough to set something up.

If the opponent is standing in muddy water, their increase in “weight” will make them fall even harder, boosting this move's damage up to 15%, a very powerful showing for a throw. Of course, the throw's set-up allowance is neutered, as the decrease in knockback provided by muddy water is an unfortunate side effect.

Up Throw – Epicenter
Whiscash causes the earth to shake right underneath the opponent's feet, in a quick burst of energy. The terrestrial disruption jolts both fighters into the air, flipping the duo upside down so that Whiscash is closer to the ground. Instantly letting go of its victim, Whiscash touches ground while the enemy takes some weak vertical knockback and 9% damage. At higher percentages, Whiscash can follow this up with Up Tilt or Up Smash to snipe at its opponent.

The quick tremor at the beginning of this throw tosses up only the substance resting exactly on the area effected, possibly pelting the thrown enemy with an additional barrage for increased damage, though at high percentages, the foe will either be able to tech out of the way, or will be launched too high to be hit. At mid-to-high percentages, pelting a foe with a an airborne hazard is an excellent way to stun them enough for an anti-air follow-up.

Down Throw – Gush
This throw has Whiscash fire a deluge of water out of its mouth with so much pressure that the spout lifts the fish a few inches off of the foe's head before falling to the ground. The downpour causes the opponent to collapse, putting them into prone state. Meanwhile, the water spreads out two character spaces on either side of the opponent, placing down puddles or mixing with mud.

Along with taking 8% damage, the thrown opponent is also forced into a teching position, which Whiscash can hope to successfully read and punish. If they trip on the water that was created during the throw, they're liable to be easily intercepted, and even grabbed again. Meanwhile, Whiscash can use the speed boost from that water to more effectively follow-up.

Final Smash: ​

≋Fissure≋​

Putting aside all of the set-ups for that hard-earned kill, Whiscash has bit down on the lure of victory and nabbed itself a Final Smash! Very simply, Whiscash substitutes patience and waiting for all-out power. Angrily, Whiscash, whiskers brandished in preparation, opens up a massive fissure that runs through the width of the stage in the space in front of itself. While demanding in execution, successfully opening a fissure beneath an opponent (or opponents), whether they are standing or in the air, will guarantee a KO. The enemy is frozen in place, quickly looks at the screen in dumb realization of their Wile E Coyote-esque fate, and drops into the crevice, which Whiscash instantly closes up, providing a rather quick and brutal end to its territorial invaders. If only that was always an option; Whiscash wouldn't have to spend so much time wallowing in mud. Well, at least it enjoys being in its element.

≋Playstyle≋ ​

​

​

Hoping to reel in a victory as Whiscash? As it should be painfully obvious, Whiscash's playstyle is an iterative approach to earning a kill. Earthquake is its most reliable choice in doing so, as it otherwise must rely on either high-percentage hits from its few moves with decent knockback or landing a situational meteor or gimp. To land that coveted Earthquake, however, Whiscash needs to be patient and wait for its opponents to leave themselves vulnerable. Rather than simply waiting for that to happen, however, the best approach is to use your tools to force the opponent to slip up, and Whiscash has tools for accomplishing just that in spades.

Some characters rely on reads to successfully land their strongest attacks, but when the player's intent becomes obvious, the opponent soon learns how to successfully tech in a safe manner. What Whiscash seeks to do is overwhelm the opponent with forced techs in a way that makes it difficult for them to reliably react in the correct manner every time. This can be as simple as throwing out various attack effects (tumbling, proning, tripping, etc) to keep the opponent frustrated, or as devious as playing mind games. For example, Down Smash and Down Aerial aesthetically resemble Earthquake; an enemy might see an animation start, jump toward Whiscash to clear the Earthquake tremor, then land right in front of the Pokémon, only to be met with a Down Smash. From there, Whiscash can capitalize on their tech out of the trip. Similarly, foes may attempt to hop into the air to avoid an Earthquake only to be met with a barrage of hazards launched by Down Aerial. Reads are vitally important, as the more Whiscash successfully reads and punishes, the more overwhelming it becomes for the opponent to play in a focused manner, leaving only a matter of time before they leave themselves open to Earthquake.

Because it takes so long for Whiscash to kill, it must make sure to protect itself until it can make that happen. Not the heaviest fighter around, it must rely on avoiding taking damage and playing it safe. After all, the safer Whiscash makes itself, the more dangerous the stage becomes for the enemy. In this way, Whiscash plays rather passive-aggressively. By laying down mud, water, and muddy water, Whiscash can create a virtual marsh, bogging down the terrain to severely limit enemy options and force them to play to its whims while it happily snipes away with projectiles or heals off damage with Rest; and truly, through the use of Snore and Whiscash's substance-boosted stats, it's entirely possible to play defensively while always being able to transition into a baiting or offensive strategy. And of course, each substance has its own way to be best used, based on not only situation, but match-ups also. As the tide of the battle constantly changes, Whiscash will have to choose whether to expertly position, reposition, remove, or blend its swampy soup ingredients, so even this lazy camper constantly needs to be thinking ahead and reading its opponent with rapid timing. Not only that, but it's imperative to constantly keep track of how long each patch of a substance has been around, lest they all dry up; note that it may be easier to keep replacing substances, and that is sometimes preferable, but mixing substances together can be extremely helpful in saving time by refreshing their 25-second counter. On the other side of the coin, what character Whiscash is facing also factors into smart substance use (never thought you'd see the term “smart substance use”, did ya?). If it's too difficult to play keep-away against Sonic, laying down more water to help boost your speed would be a smart move. On the other hand, it'd be just as crafty to set mud everywhere and forcibly slow Sonic to a halt.

Even while basking relatively safely in its swampy stew, Whiscash is still vulnerable, particularly from the air, and should you enter it yourself, there's not much you can do other than flail around and deliver standard attacks that don't interact well with your hazards. You'll have to get back to the ground before you can reunite with your comfort zone. Luckily, there are some tools at your disposal. Up Tilt and Up Smash are excellent anti-air techniques, the former of which serves as a practical shield and spacer, while the latter is the perfect way to turn a defensive opportunity into an offensive one. Aside from a few key exceptions, such as Dash Attack and certain throws, Whiscash doesn't excel at getting opponents into the air in order to snipe at them; rather, it forces enemies into the air with its hazards and the threat of Earthquake. The overall goal is to have the enemy occupy the space you want them to, whether through coercion or force. Whiscash then has a variety of ways to take advantage of whatever sloppy substance it's forced the enemy into. It's all about forcing the opponent to do things against their will. The more they struggle, both literally and mentally, the more dangerous Whiscash becomes.

 

[FrozenRoy]

I'll be commenting Whiscash tomorrow.

Robert Nick

The biggest problem with this set is two moves: Neutral Special and the grab. The Neutral Special is horribly broken and also HORRIBLY unfun, as the opponent can essentially put down their controller for 4 seconds, which is an INCREDIBLY long time (About 3.5 Warlock Punch start-ups), and go...I dunno...drink a little while waiting for control to come back to them. And like DM said, it is tribial for Robotnik to just remember what the foe did and rack up absurd damage. It'd be much better if it just put the foe where they were 4 seconds ago and then let them do whatever they want at that point, which offers interesting playstyle option. The grab game just gets rid of Robotnik having 4 inputs and a normal grab game for what really amounts to nothing added and does not feel like a good move due to not feeling particularly playstyle or character relevent (It'd feel better if he shot out the robot arm from him if anything like a normal tether grab). The U-Smash also feels a bit odd, but that might be just because I find the Egg Carrier flying around to be a bit...off, especially since Robotnik doesn't use it more.

Aside from that, though, it feels like a fun, if basic minion set. The Egg Pawns are actually pretty interesting in how they work and Crabmeat is a cool minion to interact with and kicking around minions is pretty good, but there doesn't really feel like there is much of a playstyle going on with his actual moves, and I don't mean that in the sense of "Needs more interactions" or whatnot, but his moves don't feel like they have any kind of common goal (IE from Brawl: Sonic's moves are built for hit-and-run). He also could use less physical attacks and some more tech, I feel: Cut out some of the physical, combine the command moves into one, then you can add in...say...a bit more projectiles or a trap? Would work well into the base of a playstyle. Combined with the fact there isn't much else that entices me, the set sort of falls flat (or flab, as the case may be) on it's face aside from the minions.

Spoiler Man

Just as an FYI, you posted Gravity Man twice here...

My critique here is basically the same as it was for Masked Link: These moves really need to be expanded on. You say Gravity Man focuses on stage control but, aside from the Anti-Gravity fields, it is very hard to get any feel of that when all the moves are one liners and there isn't any indication of how they work together. It also is missing knockback numbers, which is a key part of a moveset: We really don't have any idea what kind of KO moves Gravity Man might have, spacing moves, moves with ranges (Since no range is given, even on the projectiles) for controlling...

The biggest advice is simply to expand and make more. Instead of using one-sentence attacks, add more to it. Talk about the type of spin, for example. Add in things like knockback numbers and it's lag, so that we have an idea of what the move does and how it works. Talk about how the moves fit into a general idea or style of how Gravity Man plays and perhaps discuss some uses, especially in a "Playstyle" section. You'll find your movesets grow stronger as this goes on.

MYM Has Guts (Man)

The biggest issue with Guts Man has to be the numbers, and this isn't just number crunching a few moves here: Almost every move past the Specials has far too good of KO power. Guts Man runs into the problem that either all these attacks have to be horribly laggy, in which case Guts Man is underpowered and unfun to play because he has very few attacks that are realistically usable and most of them are redundant, or the attacks have similiar lag to normal attacks, in which case Guts Man has moves with huge KO power without the lag or any drawbacks associated with it. It is hard to say which it is, since none of the attacks have any lag times on it.

The Super Arm actually makes an okay base, but there just isn't much to build off of it, especially with such underdetailed attacks, and Guts Man doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to his attacks other than "Ko quickly", which isn't really a flow of a playstyle. A bit dissapointing of a moveset.

 

[Junahu]

Robert Nick
...
It'd be much better if it just put the foe where they were 4 seconds ago and then let them do whatever they want at that point, which offers interesting playstyle options

Hmm, yeah, that sounds much more tidy.

The grab game just gets rid of Robotnik having 4 inputs and a normal grab game for what really amounts to nothing added and does not feel like a good move due to not feeling particularly playstyle or character relevent (It'd feel better if he shot out the robot arm from him if anything like a normal tether grab).

This is the first time time I've heard of a projectile grab that the player can move during, being criticised as "amounting to nothing" and "irrelevent".
But yeah. 3 Hour moveset, throwless grab. They kind of go together *shrug*

He also could use less physical attacks and some more tech, I feel: Cut out some of the physical, combine the command moves into one, then you can add in...say...a bit more projectiles or a trap? Would work well into the base of a playstyle.

No way? No way! No way? No way!
"No Way!" to compounding the already problematic complexity of command-inputs by having them all bundled into one hyper compressed one. Imagine if a character's entire repertoir of projectiles or traps came off of one input, that'd be terrible, and completely in contradiction to the whole point of Smash's simple input schema.
And, before someone suggests it, "No Way!" to putting command-inputs on taunts either. It actually disheartens me to see gameplay purpose crammed into the one thing that absolutely shouldn't have it.

It's interesting to see just how people are interpreting this moveset when it doesn't have a playstyle section to dictate what kind of character it is. While he can spend some time out of reach, commanding, building and summoning from afar, that's certainly not what this Robotnik is all about. He has a lot of physical attacks, because he needs to do a lot of intelligent retreating in order to reach or abuse his summoned machinations. There's a level of incompetance built into the moveset that players work to overcome, and a flow to matches where Robotnik is periodically left vulnerable, yet more dangerous.

Of course, if the moveset failed to grab you, then that's the moveset's fault for sure.

 

[FrozenRoy]

I don't think combining an input that says "Go here" with an input that says "Come here" hypercompresses it too much. Tilt says go X, Smash says Come Here. Simple, intuitive, does not take two inputs. The only two command inputs are Side Special and Up Tilt. So make, say, tilting the Side Special make him point and make it go there, tilt and he makes a "come here" motion. To me, this feels more intuitive to play as then spreading it under two inputs, frees up your Up Tilt and doesn't cause any issues. If you want to keep the ability to control the minion, holding down B either way to just take control of it doesn't add any complexity that having that option already does.

The problem with the physical attacks isn't about reading the playstyle one way, it is that Robotnik has never really been much of a physical character in the games and certainly does not look one. So it feels slightly odd for Robotnik to not use more technology for attacks, even his close range ones, compared to physical attacks. Think like how Snake has tools on all of his smashes and Specials. I think it would have been cool if, say, Robotnik had an aerial and a tilt with some tech on it.

The grab you can move during just doesn't feel like it works with the rest of the moveset is all. That's just how I read the moveset, though. And I'm the kind of person you'll hear a lot of first times from.

 

[Junahu]

I can't agree with the idea of smashing the side special being an intuitive way of getting a minion to come to Robotnik's location. The Side Special is a motion that leaves Robotnik and travels forwards. So a Smashed Side Special would be more like "dash in the direction I pushed, no matter what". Two commands on one special can certainly work, but only if those two commands are similar in purpose and direction. Otherwise you may as well just invent a whole new input, because that's how the player will end up having to rationalise it. Also the up-tilt only commands one minion, who must be nearby to begin with, whilst Side Special gives orders to all of them regardless of range.

Incidentally, you missed the third command input Robotnik has, his Back-air. Thinking on it, I suppose the back-air command should have been a Back-Special. C'est la vie.

And I'm starting to understand what you mean by Robotnik being too physical; not in the way the attacks work, but rather in the way they look. I'll freely admit, this was a product of the 3 hour timelimit. At the time I felt it more important to make sure the moves were okay functionally, before worrying about their aesthetic qualities.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Soldiers from Zelda: A Link to the Past



Playstyle: Soldier utilizes all types of Soldier abilities and throws them into one character. He's like that balanced character. He has various projectiles, but also has physical attacks. Lets look at some stats.

Weight:
Soldier is one of the heaviest characters, having all that armor. His weight is around 7/10.

Size:
Soldier is a bit taller than Ivysaur, and is about as wide as Olimar. I would say 6/10

Jumping:
Soldier actually has decent jumps. They're about as high as 3 Jigglypuff jumps. 5/10

Falling Speed:
Soldier falls pretty fast, just a little slower than Fox McCloud. 8/10

Ground Speed:
Judging how fast Soldiers are in ALttP, they're pretty quick. 7/10

Air Speed:
Not the best. With all that weight, they don't have good Air Speed. 3/10

Traction:
Soldier has terrible Traction, because of again, all the weight. 4/10

----------------------------------------

Moveset!!

Jab Combo: Soldier does a horizontal swipe using his sword to the left. This part of the combo does 5%, and can KO Bowser at around 250%. Next is a vertical swipe downwards, doing 7% and KOing Bowser at 230%. The combo can be used to create spacing and start combos.

Dash Attack: Soldier uses Link's Jump Attack. This is one of Soldier's main killing moves, and one of the longest ranged, going 2 Battlefield platforms. This also has major ending lag. This does 10% and KO's Bowser at 150% at the least.

F-Tilt: Soldier uses the Spear and throws it at a high arc. The spear goes about half of Final Destination and can create more space between you and your opponent. This move does 9% and KO's Bowser at 160%

U-Tilt: Soldier shoots an arrow from his Bow and Arrow. It goes about as high as 5 Togepi's and does 7%. This can be used for ending combos, and has a little startup lag. KOing Bowser at 150%

D-Tilt: Soldier stabs his Spear into the ground. This will go through thin platforms, doing 10% nevertheless. This can spike if used next to a ledge, and is one of Soldiers only Meteor Smashes. KOing Bowser at 130%

F-Smash: Soldier will load his Bow with 3 Arrows. When launched, the arrows will go straight forward, neck and neck, not effected by gravity. They go about 3/4 of Final Destination. Each arrow does 13% mid charge, and 19% full. KOing Bowser at 200%

U-Smash: Soldier will get out his Ball and Chain. He circles it like a lasso and launches it upwards when the player decides. 15% mid, 20% full. This move also has a bit of ending lag. KOing Bowser at 170%

D-Smash: Soldier jumps and pounds the ground. Using all his weight, this is another of Soldier's killing moves, KOing Bowser at 120%. This move does 16% mid charge, 19% full.

N-Aerial: Soldier swipes in front of him, then swipes behind him quickly. This has the 2nd most ending lag of Soldier's moves, and does 6% per swipe, KOing Bowser at 190%.

F-Aerial: Soldier curls into a ball, being a Multi-Hit move. This move does 13% at the most, and KO's Bowser at 180%

B-Aerial: Soldier shoots an arrow behind himself. This move is different in that it makes you face the direction you're shooting at afterwards. Does 12% and KO's Bowser at 180%

D-Aerial: Soldier shoots an arrow bellow himself, causing 15%. This move goes until it hits something and KO's Bowser at 140%

U-Aerial: Soldier swings his sword above himself. It's nothing special, but it does do 16%. KO's Bowser around 150%

Grab: Soldier uses the Ball and Chain to grab opponents and bring them to him.

Pummel: Soldier does a simple stab. Does 3%

F-Throw: Soldier lets go and kicks opponent. This does 11% and KO's Bowser around 210%

B-Throw: Soldier throws the opponent behind him and hits them with a bomb in mid-air. This is a strong move doing 16% and KOing Bowser at 150%

D-Throw: Soldier throws them down and strikes them w/ a bomb. It's does 14% and KO's Bowser at 145%

U-Throw: Soldier throws the opponents and, you guessed it, throws a bomb at them. Does 15% and KO's Bowser at 155%

N-Special: Soldier throws his spear. He throws it in less of an arc and more of a line than F-Tilt. Does 16%, KO's Bowser at 170%, and has a bit of ending lag. It also goes until it hits something.

S-Special: Soldier uses his dashing attack. This goes as fast as Falcon's running speed and does 14%, and KO's Bowser at 160%. You can cancel it by pressing the control pad in the opposite direction. Doing this has some high ending lag, though.



U-Special: A Tether Recovery, Soldier shoots his ball and chain at an incomplete arc. Does 17% and KO's Bowser at 140%

D-Special: Soldier lays a bomb down that explodes in 3 seconds. The bomb can be used for finishing combos and is one of Soldier's killing moves. Does 18% and KO's Bowser at 120%

Soldier moveset complete! Feedback wanted!

 

[Junahu]

Whiscash​

I'm sincerely impressed by this moveset, in just about every way. Which unfortunately means I'm at a slight loss for words. Praise is hard to make, after all, and criticism is cheap.​

The moveset plays itself very easily in layers, allowing new players to understand the basics, without needing too delve too deep in its specifics. Further complexities can be explored at a natural, organic pace. There's no feeling that I have to learn everything about Wiscash in order to play him at all. And I find that pretty awesome.​

The playstyle, of slowing things down and then abusing the techs the foe makes to try and speed back up, is an incredible snug fit for Wiscash, and you give everything he does a pleasing weight and presence.​

The writing has a suitably slow timbre, matching the pace that Wiscash lives and fights. I really hope you put an equal amount of thought into the writing and presentation of your next moveset. For example, I'd love to see you take on a fast flighty character with a quick, airy writing style.​

​

My one, and pretty much only, concern is how the mud, water and muddy water all operate in different ways. Mud and Water are logical enough (even though Brawl does have stages with shallow water already), but muddy water lacking the properties of either one almost strikes me as a contradiction that players will not be quick to forgive. ​

Though, I do understand WHY you made such a mutual distinction between mud, water and muddy water. It forces Wiscash to be more anal about its placement, and thus have more agency to take care of the swamp he is making (i.e. to make the player WANT to maintain it, rather than just spewing mud and water whenever he has the chance)​

​

It's a little odd how one of the few pictures you use in the moveset, is dedicated to the jab attack. Granted, it does a great job of signifying where the regular attacks start, which is a trick you employ to mark the playstyle too. But the jab is not a move that strikes me as needing or warranting a visual reference.​

 

[Kholdstare]

ALttP Hyrule Soldier​

by StaffofSmashing​

​

As a long-standing Zelda fan, I'd say your Soldier moveset nails the enemy pretty well. While the sentences are short, you give sufficient detail for me to understand the moves fully. Your writing style is factual and no nonsense, I appreciate it. It doesn't do anything fancy or complicated, there are no frills. This is definitely a moveset for your standard soldier enemy. There are some suggestions I would make to improve the moveset. Add a better picture (I found this one on the Zelda wiki page for the Soldier enemy, but there are others to choose from, both art and sprites: http://zeldawiki.org/Soldier. Second, add color to the moveset, a solid white text doesn't draw the reader in. Center the image of the character, make the name of him and the move names larger and bold to distinguish them from the rest of the moves. The only moves themselves I disagree with is the grab - the Ball and Chain is a blunt weapon, not a grabbing one like the hookshot, so it does not belong on a grab at all. Final Smash as the Ball and Chain Soldier (which is a miniboss by the way, not a peon soldier enemy) would be really great instead of on the grab (and up smash). Also give him taunts, and win poses! I'd like to see more extras in movesets. Finally, if you want to flesh out the character, add more descriptive language, such as the sound of each move and more personality to the animation descriptions; I can distinctly remember the charge attack's patter of feet and dust clouds while holding out the sword, then charging forward valiantly to thrust into the green clad hero. Details like this give the generic enemy more flavor and personality in the world of Smash. I look forward to more movesets from you, you've got the basics down well.​

 

[TheKalmarKing]

Whiscash

I don't even know where to begin. You corrected the majority of the preview version's flaws, such as Pokémon Syndrome, and you made the Dtilt far better than before. I'm not a big fan of the dash attack though, I preferred the old one because of the Rest cancel, but all-in-all, this new dash attack is fine. Your interactions with mud, muddy water and water are all neat and interesting. The playstyle is quite interesting too: it clearly aims to slow and confuse the opponent to land an Earthquake, and it isn't achieved only thanks to the specials. The tilts are a very neat way of modifying your setup, cleaning the stage of any liquid of moving them around. There's a true interaction between the normals and the specials. Overall, this is a good set coming from you, like always!

(You're right Junahu, it's damn harder to praise a set than to criticize it...)

 

[Z1GMA]

The more complex (yet balanced) a moveset is, the more ppl seem to like it.

Are there any simple yet really good movesets around here?
I'd appreciate a link.

 

[Deleted member]

Typically the best sets, in my opinion, have some complex aspects, but utilise simple moves where necessary. Three sets that come to mind are from MYM12, Jarvis, Tubba Blubba and Zexion. I'm sure there's someone else who can think of more simple ones than that, but I think of them as very well balanced sets between complexity and simplicity. I super voted all three.

 

[n88]

The more complex (yet balanced) a moveset is, the more ppl seem to like it.

Are there any simple yet really good movesets around here?
I'd appreciate a link.

Here are a couple I like that aren't especially complicated:
Mr. Dooter
Tutankoopa

 

[Kholdstare]

I pulled up my old 60 favorite sets list (from Feb. 2012 so it's not entirely accurate, but mostly) and I'll break down what I think is simple and what I think is complex to show my feelings towards the matter of which is better. I'd like to say that simpler is better gameplay-wise since Smash itself's appeal partly is its simplicity, like Junahu said, as opposed to other fighters. However, more complex sets are better reading material and creative exercises. There's good in both worlds.

Green is what I consider simple.
Red is what I consider complex.
Yellow is what I consider intermediate (has both complex and simple elements).

Adeleine by SirKibble
Alucard by Junahu
Arche Kraine by Junahu
Arthas by Chris Lionheart
Bass.EXE by phatcat203
Beezwax by MasterWarlord
Blaze the Cat by Junahu
Cairne Bloodhoof by MasterWarlord
Chef Kawasaki by KingK.Rool
Cloud of Darkness by Junahu
Cutie Mark Crusaders by SirKibble
Dead Hand by Wizzerd
Death by Smash Daddy
Deoxys by Chief Mendez
Dingodile by MasterWarlord
Doppelori by Junahu
Dr. Strangelove by Wizzerd
Envy by MasterWarlord
Gemini Man by SirKibble
General Grievous by n88_2004 and darth meanie
George A. Romero by KingK.Rool
Gluttony by MasterWarlord
Headless Horseman by KingK.Rool
Jace Beleren by cutter
Kang by n88_2004
Kenji and Hisao by darth meanie
Landlos by MasterWarlord
Linebeck by Junahu
Lucio Fulci by KingK.Rool
M.Trinity by MarthTrinity
Mach Rider by Chief Mendez
Mask DeMasque by Junahu
Medusa by Junahu
Mega Man by Chief Mendez
Mewtwo by darth meanie and JOE!
Midna by half_silver28
Miracle Matter by KingK.Rool
Nandaba Naota by Chief Mendez
Napalm Man by agidius
Nara Shikamaru by Agidius
Nurse Joy by Junahu
Prinny/Etna by Junahu
Raiden by Smash Daddy
Raven by half_silver28
Robo-Link MKIII by tirkaro
Robo-Link by tirkaro
Rocket Executive Hugo by MasterWarlord
Ryuk by MasterWarlord
Sakurai by TheSundanceKid
Sarkhan Vol by LegendofLink
Sheep Man by agidius
Sho Minamimoto by SkylerOcon
Super Macho Man by Hyper_Ridley
Team Rocket Grunt by KingK.Rool
The Predator by Frf
The Secret Apprentice by darth_meanie
Two-Face by darth meanie
Urabrask the Hidden by ForwardArrow
Wallmaster by SkylerOcon
Zant by KingK.Rool

 

[FrozenRoy]

The more complex (yet balanced) a moveset is, the more ppl seem to like it.

Are there any simple yet really good movesets around here?
I'd appreciate a link.

Some simple yet good movesets I like are Majora's Karkat (One of my all-time favorites), UserShadow7889's Hockey Man, ProfPeanut's Lexaeus, my own Rattata moveset, Plorf's Dark Meta Knight (Click the MK image to get to the set), Violenceman's The Thief, SirKibble's Sayaka Miki (Which is my favorite set of any set I have read), n88_2004's Darth Vader (Another all-time favorite), Darth_Meanie's Electivire and Junahu's Doppelori (Which won MYM7 and is another all-time favorite).

Personally, if you get the chance, I recommend reading all of them, as they all provide excellent examples of how being a "simple" moveset doesn't mean you have to abandon playstyle and how to make attacks that are not brain-rendingly complex fit into a great, flowing playstyle.

If you only had to read some, I would personally read Sayaka, Vader, Doppelori, Lexaeus and Dark MK. Sayaka is my favorite set of all time and elegantly shows how to present a mechanic and how to effortlessly slide it into a moveset in a neat package and how to have it ripple throughout the playstyle. Vader shows an excellent way of making what is essentially simple sword attacks fit into a solid playstyle that is great and how to meld physical and projectile attacks excellently, and how you can add complexer elements (Vader's Grab) without sacrificing simplicity overall. Doppelori is a great example of a set that ages gracefully and a true study in sharp playstyles and certain parts of any battle. Lexaeus is a good example of how simply strong attacks can turn into a deeper, complex playstyle if done properly and is still one of my favorite movesets to write match-ups for. And Dark MK shows how to take a little idea (spacing) and use it over the course of a moveset to create something rich and thought out.

(For reference: I am considered one of the people who more likes "simple but good" movesets. In addition, in terms of all-time greats, Sayaka is #1, Karkat is #3, Darth Vader is #8 and Doppelori is #9)

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Man, I didn't make the list...

Eh well. Better luck next time. At least ill be able to make more next time... If there is a next time.

 

[JOE!]

That list is from Feb 2012, like he said before it...

 

[Junahu]

Since everyone else has already given you an exceedingly large amount of reading material to dive into, I'll try to only make a couple of suggestions.

Crawdaunt by MasterWarlord

This is an excellent example of a concise moveset, created by an MYMer who has traditionally favoured more complicated affairs. There's no lack of depth to how the lobster pokemon goes about his business, but the tools he uses are surprisingly basic.​

For the sake of comparison, and to highlight the genres he's more known for, MasterWarlord is the man who created this 6-in-1 character, this vehicle driving character and this 3v1 Boss character. He makes sets with a lot of complex depth, though the core of each moveset is (usually) easy to understand, which elevates his work above that of his contemporaries.​

Luviagelita Edelfelt by darth meanie

It's not universally considered 'good', as it is strongly disliked by some. But this may perhaps be the poster child for deliberately rejecting complexity without compromising the moveset's vision. Darth Meanie also happened to write this small piece on the idea of subtractive design, which may be of some interest to you.​

By-the-by, just in case you weren't already informed, we have every MYM moveset listed and linked [here]. And for MYM14 movesets (this contest) specifically, you can go [here]. We have, like, thousands of movesets now, which is crazy and amazing in equal measure.

 

[ForwardArrow]

I figured I'd drop a few recommendations here for some simple sets I think the others missed.

Shana
Given the set is for a sword wielder, it only makes sense it would remain fairly sensible and simple in terms of it's inputs throughout the entire set, and the set succeeds at doing that while still making the application of the simple sword swings and flame creation get progressively more interesting and deep as the set moves on.

Sakuya
I admit this one's a tad bit controversial for reasons relating to either A. having too many ways to combo or B. just being too bland past the specials. Not viewpoints I agree on, but the set is appealing to me for the sheer degree of versatility the specials and mechanics of this set offer, giving the player plenty of room to play with throwing knives that are both delayed and non-delayed.

Zodick
If you've ever played Brawl Sonic, Zodick plays like a logical expansion on him, scaled up to a massive sized character and gaining some mechanics that parody Sonic's games on top of hit and run that works naturally into these mechanics. For that matter it has some pretty amazing animations if you're interested in that.

Alice
Kind of like Zodick, this set is an expansion on a Brawl character, this time Olimar in utilizing various types of dolls, a lot more unique than Olimar's Pikmin but operating on similar limits and style of control. It's a bit more alien compared to Brawl playstyles than the other 3, but none the less it's not especially more complex, and frankly if you're going to get into MYM you should at least get an understanding of more stage controlling playstyles like this one.

 

[Z1GMA]

@ Experienced MYM'ers:
How long does it normally take to create a good moveset?
I know it depens on the character, but roughly.

Also, I'm working on a moveset, but I'm currently stuck.
Any advice?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

@ Experienced MYM'ers:
How long does it normally take to create a good moveset?
I know it depens on the character, but roughly.

Also, I'm working on a moveset, but I'm currently stuck.
Any advice?

I wouldn't call myself awfully experienced, but the entire process (brainstorming, theorizing, writing, editing, formatting, and submitting) can take me anywhere from a week to over a month, depending on how satisfied I am with my work as it comes along. I know other MYMers spend months or more on movesets. But I don't think there is any sort of time frame that you can put on a moveset before it becomes "good". Not only is that subjective (some very time-consuming movesets have gone heavily scrutinized and others have been praised despite taking a few hours), but I think it's really just about how easy the character is to write for, how much time you set aside for focused writing, and your own general personal motivation.

If you'd like some feedback on a moveset, you can visit the chat to hear a variety of opinions, or check out the Whiteboard, which is a place specifically designed for moveset previewing and critique.

 

[FrozenRoy]

@ Experienced MYM'ers:
How long does it normally take to create a good moveset?
I know it depens on the character, but roughly.

Also, I'm working on a moveset, but I'm currently stuck.
Any advice?

For help on the stuck moveset, I highly recommend entering chat for advice or posting a preview on The Whiteboard, which Turtles linked too. Getting advice from multiple people is an excellent way to improve upon your sets.

As for how long it takes...it wildly depends. Sho Minamimoto, which I consider my best set, took me about 4 days. Alice Margatroid, my second best, took me in the range of 2 months or so. There isn't really much of a set time.

In my opinion, it depends heavily on how much you initially have to go with the concept (Sho had everything flowing out as I wrote it, so it was easy to write: Alice I had a general idea of, but really needed to think up how to actually make) and how long you have to think on the moves after the initial idea burst, in addition to how complex a set is (The less wordy and big on really complex stuff it is, the shorter it will generally tend to take...on the flipside, you run the risk of making the set lose an identity).

It also probably varies from person to person: For example, Smash Daddy usually takes a long time to work on his movesets, while someone like me is more likely to whip them out fast.

 

[TheKalmarKing]

I'm not very experienced, but Jinbe and Bad Girl both took a month, and I'm working on Ares since almost a month now, but it's mostly because I lay out most of the ideas in my head before writing them. It usually takes me something like 3 weeks ( ! ) to start writing. I'm rather fast once I begin writing though. You can take either 2 days or 6 months to finish a set for an equal level of quality; it entirely depends on the character and the person.

 

[Rychu]

My two best movesets, Appetizer and Weird Rider, both took about two days. Kammy Koopa, one I consider my third best, I made in about 6 hours. my GLaDOS moveset took me about 2 weeks. It really depends on how laid out your plans are, how much you can brainstorm at once, or how easy it is for you to work off of a concept

 

[ForwardArrow]

I'm the opposite case of Froy where I made my 2nd favorite set in about a week(Urabrask) and my favorite over multiple months(Jarad), but generally how long it takes to make a set is based on how much inspiration you get for it in one go and how much perfectionism you want to go through with it. Generally how long a set takes to make doesn't indicate quality, plenty of fantastic sets have been made in shockingly small timespans while long term projects can be disastrous, though the opposite is usually more common. So really, just go at a pace that feels reasonable for you.

 

[Katapultar]

My best sets all took me -at least- one and a half weeks to complete, namely Luxord and Luke Atmey, whereas my No.1 Salvatore I started around February or March and spent an insanely long time brainstorming plus putting on the shelf for a while before working on her again. I can be a bit of a perfectionist when making sets for characters I love (which can prevent me from making them, on the negative side), but even then the two blonde men in black were made under weird circumstances as the former was made as a request for a big movement whereas the latter was made because it was the Phoenix Wright character I was associated with on a list Warlord made.

I've learned plenty of things from being around here for 4 years without end. My first piece of advice would be to assimilate yourself with the expectations of those around you, and by doing that what is considered "good" and "bad" in a moveset should come naturally to you (this may or may have not happened yet with all the links people have been posting over the last couple of days). From there, you'll have expectations for yourself, you'll KNOW whether you're genuinely satisfied with a moveset you've made or whether it could have been better. I'm sure others will tell you this, but for a moveset to truly blossom it typically needs a strong/marvelous/perfect combination of playstyle and characterization, though if it just has the former and the latter is nigh impossible to convey in the set for whatever reason it can still pass. Characterization is not just what you understand, but what the readers can gather from the set too, something I learned earlier on in this contest; characterization that the average reader will never pick up on is worthless (significant to me since I used to think that characterization was the most important thing in the world).

Also, a good way to make a good set is to pick a character with high potential so you can gather ideas for them quickly. Traps, walls, duplicates, projectiles and reality-warping all work. Most sets in the Top 50s have these.

 

[Agi]

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Public Announcement - Project Kibble
Those of you who are on Facebook might have noticed something recently – one of our comrades-in-arms, Alex Nicoll (though you probably know him as SirKibble) has wedding bells in the future. Although Kibble hasn’t been as active as he was in the early days of MYM, this is still a momentous occasion in MYM’s history. And he has invited us all to attend.
Now, let’s be realistic here – while the offer is greatly appreciated, most of us don’t live anywhere near close enough to actually attend, no matter how much we’d want to. HOWEVER. There is something we CAN do.
Through the power of the modern mail delivery system, we, MYM, as a community, can give Kibble the sendoff he deserves. Although this project is very much in-progress and will not kick off for the next few days at least as more names are added to the list, the end result will be: A single card, with the signatures and well wishes of everyone in MYM who wishes to participate.

​

If you're interested, read the full article on the Plaza, our community bulletin board.​

 

[FrozenRoy]

As a note, the Recap will be back on Friday.

 

[Z1GMA]

Someone need to make a moveset for:

She could be able to merge different candies and stuff.

 

[JOE!]

You could, you know.

I mean it sounds like you already know the character and even have a base idea for what she could do

 

[Z1GMA]

You could, you know.

I mean it sounds like you already know the character and even have a base idea for what she could do

Ya, but nah, I'm working on two other characters atm.
Besides, I'd rather see someone who's good at complex movesets make it.

 

[TheKalmarKing]

ARES​

​

Ares is, as you know, the Greek God of War. This particular version comes from Injustice, where Ares wants to stir up new conflicts all over the world. Why? Because Superman has gone mad and created a "perfect" world, where wars truly don't exist. As a result, since Ares' power and lifeforce comes from conflicts, he schemes behind the scenes to kill (or a least defeat and banish) Superman. Despite this making a perfectly valid plot, the game completely ignores it and only throw Ares in the arena for two or three mandatory fights. Now, Ares somehow entered the Smash universe, having finally found an endless source of conflicts to satisfy his hunger! ​

STATISTICS​

Ares is quite obviously a male heavyweight antagonist, so you can probably guess his kind of statistics. He's slow, he's tall, he's heavy, and he falls like a rock. However, his jumps are pretty correct, and his dash speed is rather correct. Other than that, there's not much to say about his statistics; it's very generic.

I think here is the best place to talk about the differences between the preview and the final version. First, I decided to leave the invisibility effect on the Dsmash, because I couldn't think of another good input. Also, I rewrote the Uthrow to make it more different; the purpose is the same but the execution differs quite a bit. Finally, the Usmash and the Fsmash have been completely overhauled. I decided to not write a playstyle section for now, because Ares' playstyle is already clear enough for me, but if there is enough demand (Which I totally understand), I will write a short but hopefully complete playstyle section. Now, please enjoy the set!

SPECIALS​

Neutral B: Summoned Sword

This move has two variations, depending on whether you tap or hold B. If you tap it, Ares will summon a large floating sword, launching it forward after 0.5 seconds, dealing 10% damage and medium knockback to your unlucky opponent. If you're hit during the starting lag by a sufficiently powerful attack, the attack will be canceled altogether (A forward tilt is usually enough for this). It's pretty powerful but slow, however you can aim it in the eight cardinal directions, making it a good projectile indeed. When the sword will hit some kind of surface, it will firmly plant itself thanks to magic, entering standby mode. It is perfectly harmless then, and while your opponents can't pick it up, they can destroy it. Of course Ares doesn't make his weapons in sugar, so the Sword got 30 HP. When destroyed, Ares won't be able to summon another one for 4 seconds straight, so be careful. Of course, Ares can just pick it up to save himself some troubles.

If you hold B instead, Ares will summon the sword in his very hand. Basically, it alters some of Ares' normals (More details on that later). However, it keeps him from doing some crazy tricks. What kind of crazy trick you say? Well when the sword is planted on the ground, you can either tap B to make it float again, or hold B to teleport it in your very hand. Basically, it allows you to move it through the field at will, which is always cool.

Side B: Floating Dagger

This a « chargeable » attack. For every 0.1 second where you hold the button, Ares will summon a dagger behind him, for a total of 6 daggers. He can interrupt the charge part anytime he wants to, and resume it later. Whatever you do, the daggers will follow you around as you continue fighting. If you get hit while summoning the knives, they will all disappear, so be careful to not miscalculate, even with that « Super Armor » effect.

After this, when you tap Side B, a dagger will fire forward. It's a small and fast projectile, dealing 3% damage and light knockback. It's easily spammable, but summoning those your precious daggers just to fire them like they're Falco's blaster would be an horrible waste of time. O-kay, it does work as a camping tool but it's not the knives' main purpose. I'll explain later, don't worry.

Up B: Warp Transmission

A nice red-and-black light surround Ares, before he warps to the location of his choice. It's basically a buffed-up version of Zelda's Up-B, with a longer start-up but also with better range.

Okay, I lied. This isn't just a better Zelda Up-B. During the start-up, Ares can transfer the light to an item near him by tilting the stick in it's direction, the maximum range being a whole Battlefield platform. While he can't affect opponents like that, his sword and his daggers will be affected like any other item, meaning the whole field is your playground already. Somebody wants to invade your airspace? Teleport your daggers in the sky! They will stay in place until you order them to fire! Somebody is hiding behind a wall? Warp your sword behind the wall, too! You can't warp away a thrown or fired item, however, for several more-or-less obvious reasons.

As you probably already guessed, Ares is all about controlling the field and creating a maze for your opponent to navigate through, and this Warp is the better way to bring the pain directly in your opponent's face. Alternatively, he can just teleport himself away to create more daggers or toward the opponent if he wishes to dirty his hands in a good old-fashioned battle.

Down B: Dark Spear

Like the Sword, this moves comes in two different flavors: tapped or held. If you tap it, Ares will place a dark sigil on the ground. The symbol will begin pulsating with a sick red-and-black light for 5 seconds before disappearing. However, if an opponent enters the sigil's zone of effect (which is an infinite column upward), it will fire a spear straight upward, dealing 8% damage and low-to-medium knockback. The spear is quite fast, but a high enough opponent will avoid it entirely. Also, there can only be one sigil at a time on the field. Another weakpoint of this trap is the sleek hitbox of the spear. When there is already a sigil on the ground, you can tap B again to launch the spear prematurely.

If you hold B, Ares will instead lauch a wave of spears forward. It will continue as long you hold B, and will naturally stop if you stop holding B or if it comes across a ledge. The spears are a Mario tall and deal 5% damage and low-to-medium knockback. They are moderately fast but it takes 0.4 seconds, so it's still dodgeabe. You can hit the opponent up to four times in a single attack, dealing 20% damage in total, so you cn easily rack up damage.

When you hold B when there's already a sigil out, the wave of spears will begin from the sigil. The wave will naturally go toward the opponent, but it can't switch directions, so jumping over it will be far enough to dodge it. You can't spotdoge it, because the spears last long enough to catch you out of the spotdodge; you can however roll past them with proper timing. This move's use is luring the opponent to the skies, or hitting them as they're coming down from a jump.

NORMALS


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Jab: Magic Blast / Destroy Your Enemies!

Ares shoots a black magic bolt forward, dealing 3% damage and light knockback.. As a jab, it's slow, but the range (A whole Battlefield platform) is quite good. However, if there's a sword or some daggers nearby, the bolt will instead head toward the piece of weaponry. If it hits, the weapon will then be embued with dark magic, the next attack using the weapon dealing 3% damage more. It's not very practical, but the extra damage is always cool if you decide to go and grab your mighty sword. Also, you can play some tricks with your opponents thanks the bolt being on autopilot mode.

If you're holding the sword, Ares will then do three heavy slashes forward, dealing 5%, 5% and... 5% damage. The knockback is medium for all three hits and they're all rather slow for a jab, so escaping is easy for an half-competent player, but hey, it's a giant sword, what did you expect? But I digress. It's easy to rack up damage and it can even kill at 180%, so it is quite awesome, for a jab.

Forward Tilt: Steel Hand / Crush Your Opponents!

Ares throws a mighty punch while taking a good step forward, hiting the opponent square in the face for 6% damage and medium knockback. It won't work on smaller and crouching opponents though, but the very good range and low beginning lag more than make up for it. While it's far more standard than the jab, it gets the job done and easily stop dashing opponents in their tracks. And since opponents will likely want to dash at you so you don't summon your entire armory, it will come in handy. Be warned though, the end lag can easily lead into a grab or a combo if you whiff, so don't just throw it out randomly.

If you're holding the sword, Ares will instead unleash a powerful overhead blow forward. The range is pretty huge for a Ftilt, and as it deals 10% damage and medium knockback, it's a really powerful tilt. However, there is some heavy starting lag, but thankfully the ending lag is short. It can kill around 170% percent, the knockback being a still a bit higher than the jab.

Up Tilt: Uppercut of Pain / Strike the Heavens!

Ares will throw an heavy punch imbued with dark magic upward, hitting any poor schmuck within range and launching them in the air while dealing 6% damage. It's a standard Utilt, with low horizontal range but good vertical range. It's one of Ares' fastest move, so defend yourself from aerial attacks with this move if you don't want to use the Usmash.

With the sword, Ares will instead unleash a mighty strike upward for 8% damage, this time gaining some good horizontal range while sacrificing it's anti-aerial properties. It serves to launch opponents in the air, where they will hopefully be helpless and combo-able. Or you could just run away while they're ascending but it's less badass (While still useful of course).

Down Tilt: Ground Smash / Reap the Otherworld!

While crouching, Ares delivers a mighty punch to the floor, sending black magic in the ground to hurt anybody who's both near him and touching the ground. There is two hits, first, the punch, dealing 3% damage and flinch, and then the shockwave which deals 4% percent and low knockback. Like all of Ares' tilts, it's rather fast, but other than that, it's a pretty standard Dtilt. The first punch is really hard to hit with, it's probably better to just use a grab by that point. There's a 10% chance the opponent will trip.

When holding the sword, Ares will instead sweeps his opponent's feet with his blade, dealing 8% damage and making the opponent trip. There's a pretty good range on that sweep, and the trip is guaranteed, making it a pretty good attack.

SMASHES


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Side Smash: Arcane Blast

Ares concentrates magic in his palm, creating a pulsating ball of light. After the charge time, he crushes it in his palm and then throw the remnants forward, creating a spreadshot of magic, dealing 14-18% damage and heavy knockback.. The range is better than average and increases when charged, but at full charge, the starting lag is awful. When fully charged, it kills around 130%.

When you got daggers out, they will suddenly form a thick wall of blades. If the daggers are following Ares, the wall will appear before him, and if placed somewhere, they will stay in place. When opponents run into this wall, they take 2% x dagger number (For example, if there is 5 daggers out, you will take 2 x 5 = 10% damage). A fully formed wall is a Mario tall, but it's hovering slightly over the ground so a sufficiently low to the ground character can sneak past it, like Snake crawling. You can warp this wall around easily, helping you control the stage more easily. The opponent can easily roll past it though.

While this wall lasts for an infinite time, you can't use your daggers while they're in « lockdown » mode. To make the wall disappear, you must use the Side B. The daggers will then fly back to their former position and are perfectly inoffensive while doing that.They aren't usable while they fly back, so if you warped that wall around a lot on a big stage, your knives will be useless for a moment.

If you angle the smash up, the daggers will instead form a line of blades in the air, a bit upwards of Ares. While most characters will just walk under it on the ground, it will serve as an excellent air-control thingie, with your opponent falling on it and other stuff. You could also send the opponent into it with a vicious Utilt, which will make them bounce right back into your lap... Be warned though, you can't just follow-up with another Utilt, the knockback angle sending the opponent out of range. This doesn't rule out other tilts though.

If you angle it down, the daggers will instead line up on the ground. It's the basically the angled-up version, on the ground. It's more helpful to control the ground, of course; when opponents run into it, there's a good chance they will trip.

Up Smash: Infernal Torch

Ares begins to glow, and then lifts an arm in the air while he's engulfed in blood red flames, racking 15%-18% and dealing good upward knockback. It can rack up to 9 hits, keeping the opponent in the fire until the attack ends. There's quite a good vertical range, and an okay horizontal range. When used with the sword, the move is basically Marth's Usmash with a constant hitbox. It loses some horizontal range but easily compensates by gaining a huge vertical hitbox; also, since there's a sword thrust at the beginning of the move now, it deals an additional 7% damage, so the total damage is now 22%-25%. Quite powerful, huh? But the move got an extra flavour on top of all that.

When your daggers are out, when you use the Usmash, they will immediately go upward of Ares. Because yes, Ares isn't lifting his arm for nothing- he's actually telling his daggers where to go! With that move, you can very easily change your set-up without losing time, since you don't have to go through the lenghty « Break up formation, come to me,then I warp you there » thingy. This Usmash is the key to surviving on big stages, where the fighting can separate you from your precious set-up.

Down Smash: Planeshift

Ares will begin to glow in his usual red-and-black light, and then expels the energy dealing 12-16% damage and good knockback. While it's an obvious GTFO smash, it does something unexpected: Ares suddenly turns invisible! To make it better, daggers will stop following you and your sword will be invisible too, avoiding a very obvious giveaway. While Ares can't attack by himself in that state, his invisibility is near-perfect, and he can safely retreat while avoiding the opponent (His invisibility is flawed only because he would be uncontrollable by the player otherwise). It lasts for 2 whole seconds, but for the next 6 seconds, using the smash won't make you invisible. Use this well, and you can easily mess with your opponent's head.

AERIALS​

Neutral Aerial: Shadow Pulse / Orbiting Knives

For the normal version, Ares releases some kind of pulsating shadow around him, dealing 8% damage and medium knockback. It's a very standard aerial, with a radial hitbox and all. It's rather « meh » in combos, being a basic GTFO move.

When you got knives following you or when you're close to stationary knives, Ares will stop in midair for a moment as the knives begin spinning around him, dealing (2 x number of daggers) very quick 1% hits. That means that with one knife, there will be two hits and with 6 daggers, 12 hits. Very simple, huh? This version works far better for combos, as the multiple hits will keep the opponent in the sphere, so even after the attack's end, you'll be close to the opponent. And, ideally, you could follow it up with a Fair...

Forward Aerial: Iron Smash / Crushing Slash

Ares deals a powerful downward blow, either with his fist or his sword, spiking the opponent downward while dealing 7% or 11%. Of course, with the sword, the range is far greater, making it quite an excellent spike. Also, you can send an airborne opponent into spikes thanks to this spike. (Spikeception) A basic combo like Utilt – Fair – Daggers dealing quite an awesome quantity of damage, it's an option you should never neglect.

Back Aerial: Backhand / Backswipe (A.K.A. Generic Bair)

Ares either strikes behind him with his fist, or swipes behind him with his trusty greatsword, dealing either 6% or 10% damage, and okay knockback. It's sole purpose is of course to protect your back while jumping around; on that note, if you decide to jump away from the fight for whatever reason, it will be your sole (But still good) defence. Covering his back is always useful isn't it?

Down Aerial: God Smash

A good old stall-then-fall, Ares first concentrates magic in his fists, and then crash to the ground while dealing a good two-fisted smash. What makes this move a bit different from the other stall-then-fall Dair moves is, Ares drags the opponent to the ground dealing quick 2% hits. Ares falls quite quickly, so you can't rack up many damage with that attack. However, you could drag an opponent in some spikes, which is far more effective and deadly. You can attack opponents on the ground too, but it's far less effective.

Up Aerial: Warlock Grab

Continuing the thread of simple, kinda boring but efficient aerials, Ares attemps to grab an higher opponent. If he succeeds, he will then chuck the poor guy to the ground, because nobody can pretend to be higher than Ares! It also deals a measly 5% damage, but of course, that move's purpose isn't attacking, but defence. The opponent will be briefly helpless, so you can breathe for a moment and safely warp away... or next to the foe, to combo him a little. Also if you're close enough to the ground, you can chuck the opponent right into some spikes, dealing a nifty amount of damage.

GRABS​

Grab: Puny Insect!

Ares grabs the opponent by the throat, and holds him up the air. Rather fast, but the range is only average.

Pummel: Pulsating Power

Ares repeateadly sends his magic in his opponent's body, burning him and dealing 3% damage. Neither fast, neither slow, it's a basic pummel.

Side Throw: Pathetic Worm!

Instead of casually throwing his opponent, Ares instead walks around while still holding them by the throat. Using the pummel will make him stop, but he will resume walking once it's finished. If you don't come across any point of interest, Ares will just throw the opponent in the direction he's facing for 5% and okay knockback. However, if he comes across a sword, he will slam his opponent on the ground, then impale him with the sword, leaving him stuck in place. The opponent can escape at normal grab difficulty, but Ares uses his Nspec, he will instantly be freed. While the opponent is stuck in place, Ares get some free set-up time, so use intelligently. You could call back your daggers for example.

Speaking about daggers, when Ares comes across a wall of blades, he will rack up some good damage by grinding the poor schmuck on the wall, and then throwing him away in a non-damaging fashion. The opponent will hit the wall three times, so the equation is [3 x (2 x Dagger number)]. While the damage can be quite enormous, Ares is a tranquil walker, and has such, th eopponent can easily free himself. While this a very powerful throw, it can be quite difficult to use it properly without adequate planning and set-up.

Up Throw: Atlas Throw

Ares firmly grabs the opponent's face, and then throw him high in the air, dealing 6% damage. Since the opponent takes a bit of time to come back down, Ares can prepare his landing with a good Usmash, or can combo him in the air. While it's concept and it's use are both very simple, this move got a little oddity: you can never kill with this move alone. To be more precise, the upper blastzone outright doesn't work for the opponent when you use the Uthrow on him. Why? Well, get to a high enough point, and you could easily kill your opponent if there wasn't that little security. Oh, and the Uair doesn't knock the enemy up, so offing the opponent with the Uthrow will take a little creativity.

Down Throw: Soul Rip

Ares stabs his opponent in his gut, and then rips his opponent's soul, like the name indicated. In return, Ares kindly gives to the opponent 7% damage- isn't he nice? This vicious attack leaves the opponent crumbling to the ground, being temporarily knocked out due to shock and pain. It also heals Ares a measly 2% damage. You can follow this throw by a good Dtilt, or just go away. Yes, Ares often goes away. That's called a strategic retreat, not fleeing. Well, most of the time.

FINAL SMASH

​

War God's Wrath

Ares suddenly grows to gigantic proportions, and shines with his usual red-and-black light. Basically, it's Ares + Mega 'Shroom + Hyper Armor + Bunny Hood! He's now an invincible, lightning-fast, towering giant looming over the stage. The various wepons he uses in his set scale up to his size too, so you can send bike-sized daggers, hit your opponent with a car-sized sword or send a tsunami-like wave of spears. It lasts for 6 seconds. Yes it is completely over-powered, even for a Final Smash, but Ares is a god, not some squishy plumber with a mustache. ​

 

[Falcos_feather]

Ares is awesome, and I'd love to play as your version of him.
Cool moveset, but a lack of Pictures and "less important" stuff, how confusing that now might sound.

 

[Falcos_feather]

Double Post

 

[Falcos_feather]

Stupid lag >_>

 

[TheKalmarKing]

Ares is awesome, and I'd love to play as your version of him.
Cool moveset, but a lack of Pictures and "less important" stuff, how confusing that now might sound.

I totally agree on the lack of pictures; I need to find a cool pic of his sword, pronto. For the "less important stuff", perhaps you mean what we commonly call the extras? Aside from the playstyle summary I voluntarily omitted, extras usually aren't covered in sets, because taunts and victory poses normally are insignificant. But I may do them if I find some cool ideas.

 

[Z1GMA]

@Experienced MYM'ers: Can you link your very first moveset(s), plox?