Mafia Sleepover: The Finale [ Town Wins - Pokemon Sight seeing]

[Arcane Inferno]

Arcane ur a dumbie or scummie

Murderbush being dumbie for suggesting bard lynch cause bard is town

Jbaybay pls get in here and do something or you're going to get pooped on like a masochist

this is pretty top lel worthy coming from the guy who thinks asking people to speculate on full scum teams day 1 is productive or helpful at all

I've made my case, and I think the Leviathan case holds more water. I am curious to hear what your conclusions are concerning why we should lynch J FIRST.

I think you make some seriously good points on Levi. Thing is, I don't hard read him as scum like you are. There's some grime there for sure, but that grime will continue to show itself if that slot is scum. Im legitimately not worried about being able to read that slot as this game progresses. Its a vocal slot that's doing one of two things; trying to be subtlely manipulative and failing hard at it as scum, or it thinks its actually providing solid analysis as town and thinks its more clever than it is.

The way I see it, if its a scum slot I wanna give it more time to lay me a nice paper trail to pick apart to get to his mates. If its town, I dont wanna take a mislynch on a vocal slot that could be brought around to see the light and shape his act up.

J on the other hand isn't gonna do ****. Its a scummy slot with no real stances that has no interest in defending itself. If we let him live he'll probably just ***** about how we thought he was scummy D1 well into D2 and just lash out at his attackers and let that color his reads. That's assuming he even shows up in any significant way D2. I will also admit that I personally have a hard time getting a hard read on J, so I'd rather cash in for his flip now while simultaneously removing a questionable slot at best. My experience in Monster mafia is colouring my calculus here and I'll freely admit that, but I'll be damned if I don't learn from that experience and continue to do what's netted me two consecutive town wins (both of which were nearly perfect games btw [flavourless & monster]).

 

[BarDulL]

ok uh hm well i looked at leviathan's 818 and there isn't anything that strikes out to me as bad or off. i kinda agree with most of it but regarding his read on arcane, i feel like arcane's other content is fine. idk maybe it's arcane's experience however his one small slip up might be him trying to fit totoro into the guillotine WHEN TOTORO IS TOO DAMN BIG TO FIT IN THE GUILLOTINE =D lol. but really at this point i almost feel 100% like arcane is scum goggling my slot with like everything i do though. :-/

i'm not really sure about bunzy cause i haven't thoroughly read too much into the slot.

i can see why people think levi might be being manipulative to survive but him catering to some of the power house slots does not seem mafia-motivated. i can see him being indy predominantly since he could be upholding his survival by saying some of the power house slots are town etc. while doing some flip flopping on reads to avoid getting bodied. but i think J is the better push atm.

@Arcane - i asked those questions to see if jexs would slip up lol scum goggle more pls. i mean he was saying bardeezy/levi/j were scummy but i don't think he really thinks that's the case which is why i asked him what he thought of a potential team. i think he has pretty much sheeped his way to this point so i'm still a little concerned but i don't think he's the play toDay though.



as another aside, i'm pretty curious about the alakaslam slot. i forget, did someone fill it or is there still a need for a replacement?

 

[Arcane Inferno]

lel scumgoggle lel

let me level with you Bardull (frozen head btw)

I personally don't think you're screaming scum. You ain't no paragon of towniness either though. Gheb thinks you're scum more than I do, but I honestly don't blame him for that read. I don't think you're the play today though at all.

 

[BarDulL]

tell gheb to quit being so

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not townreading Levi at all.

I'm just scumreading J harder.

 

[Kantrip]

I'd lynch either way but Murder saying J has no resistance to being lynched is wrong, and that being what makes him hesitant is stupid.

There is resistance to both lynches and many people claiming to be fine with either one and then pushing against one or the other more.

I want J.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Name one person aside from Leviathan and J himself who is resistant to a J lynch. I haven't double checked, but I don't recall any.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

I want Town to note Bunzy's silence while mine and J's wagons have heated up as of late. Keep this in mind for that paper trail that's oh-so-important; that's for when we are ready to stop giving him a pass on "Let's wait and see" when there's more than enough there. I want my flip to ensure his damnation.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Well I see Ran failed the not posting for 24 hours thing :3

I just started a read through and noticed something. I feel the following post indicates Levi and Jex being mafia together.

1.] @JeXs

You haven't forgotten about this game, have you? Please join us.

2.] I wonder what interesting characters I'll run into in this game.

3.] Vote: Bunzy

I find it to be of odds that Levi took notice that Jex was the only of the 12 players not to have confirmed. At first I didn't even realize this is why Levi made that statement. As I did not take notice of Jex not having posted. Judging by my perception, the perception of an knowledgeless towny, I do not believe Levi started the game knowledgeless. I believe that he started out the game with the knowledge that Jex is was his scum mate; so he was inclined to notice that Rockin started the game without Jex confirming.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

I just started a read through and noticed something. I feel the following post indicates Levi and Jex being mafia together.

I find it to be of odds that Levi took notice that Jex was the only of the 12 players not to have confirmed. At first I didn't even realize this is why Levi made that statement. As I did not take notice of Jex not having posted. Judging by my perception, the perception of an knowledgeless towny, I do not believe Levi started the game knowledgeless. I believe that he started out the game with the knowledge that Jex is was his scum mate; so he was inclined to notice that Rockin started the game without Jex confirming.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

was* or is* I didn't know which one to use so I used them both.

 

[Kantrip]

Name one person aside from Leviathan and J himself who is resistant to a J lynch. I haven't double checked, but I don't recall any.

Every single person not voting J is resisting his lynch.

 

[Kantrip]

Holy reaching from Zen

 

[Kantrip]

Ran's tunneling all game is horrendous and Zen isn't making the slot any better.

Dabunz not existing bothers me.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Every single person not voting J is resisting his lynch.

Give me a real answer, you goon.

 

[Kantrip]

That is a real answer. There are only 5 people not resisting the J lynch. It's easy for a scum mate to say "yeah I'd lynch J" and then just vote Levi when it comes down to it. That is actively resisting the J Wagon even if they say they agree with it.

 

[Kantrip]

Protean, you, and frozen have all made a good case to lynch J iirc. And J disappeared.

Your case on Levi was also good, but he's responded to it quite well and you continue to stick to him sans follow - up.

Levi is doing a lot more for this game and I feel better about him than J, who hasn't even been here.

 

[Kantrip]

FF/Gheb say what I'm feeling a lot better.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

I thought you were caught up. Was I wrong?

 

[Kantrip]

I'm caught up in terms of reading.

In depth is lagging but I have a grasp of what's going on

 

[Dabuz]

@
@ Dabuz haven't spoken to you much either. where do you think scum is? any hard town reads you got going on?

I'll get back to you on both of these D2 once I can read with a flip in mind.

Also, Levi lynch before J, he's so much scummier.

 

[Gova]

I don't agree with this. Getting people to move votes to J in the first place was a nightmare (my delivery sucks, big whoop, the logic was there) and even now, plenty of people are saying "well I see J but then there's this other guy". It doesn't look like resistance to you but to me it does, simply because it's some weird roundabout way of saying that they won't lynch him. Perfect example is Gova's vote on Levi.

come back when you get some reading comprehension buddy

i said that i'd lynch J

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Vote: Werekill to the greatest degree of maximum.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

I'm such a slow thinker. And because of that, my reading speed is very low. I still have 20 pages to get through. I really want to make the case now, but I think it's best I finish reading first. I'm surprised no one has caught on to the phonyness of Were's posts. Lynching outside of Were will likely result in a mislynch.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

You're not the only who's caught it.

However, you're not getting it toDay.

You have every other major player in the game will try to prevent it, and of the votes out there you would have to sway, the logical thinkers all want J or Leviathan, and the bleeding hearts won't lynch Werekill.

So legit, save it for tomorrow, and either you or I will get to it then. I will talk about it toDay if you want, just know that you're not getting the wagon. And I'm not saying this to shut you down, but we're not switching gears off of what I believe to be the best course of action, with what little time we have left in the day phase.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

I'm fine with leaving Werekill for tomorrow. Zen is still reading though. Consider my vote on Levi in spirit. I'll be watching closely in case the wagon needs my vote as soon as possible. For now I'll leave the vote there until Zen and I talk it out. On Werekill from my perspective, I see a difference of play from here and Monster. I can't tell if it's him simply growing from that game to this one though. Definitely alot less aggro from there, though.

@ Lore @JeXs Can you two answer my previous question? Thanks.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

We really need to wagon snap to Werekill before the deadline. I'm making the post now. There's no need to read through before so other than to gain more content for the case and look for connections. Based on what I've gotten up to, lynching Levi will be a mislynch. Sorry, but I can't stand by for that.

-Z

 

[Protean-]

hey zen. shut up.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Zen, it's very much looking like J is the lynch...

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Dude please stop cockblocking me every time I push someone. Whether you're town or scum it's not really fun to play with man. I'm genuinely asking your from my heart to stop treating me as you have been.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

@ Protean- ^

 

[Lore]

On Werekill from my perspective, I see a difference of play from here and Monster. I can't tell if it's him simply growing from that game to this one though. Definitely alot less aggro from there, though.

@ Lore @JeXs Can you two answer my previous question? Thanks.

I'm doing less aggro because I'm not seeing anything that screams scum at me so far. The only ones I've really seen be scummy are J (now at least), Bunz, and Gova. Less so Gova if he actually starts posting more, but I need to have more to really decide on that slot.

The other two main wagons are Jexs and Levi, two slots that I'm definitely reading as town. So what is there to aggro? You're just asking your normal questions and latching onto Jexs for some reason, Murderbush and (now) Arcane are analyzing and asking stuff, Protean's seeming ok now, and I honestly need to reread Bardull. What am I to do besides wait for flips?


Lemme find your questions, I've been busy today.

 

[Lore]

Oh, and Potassium has been inactive as ****.

 

[Lore]

I literally cannot fathom how you have attained your Leviathan read. Did you not read the two times I posted a case and did you not see him calling me a Machiavellian manipulator when I was trying to get Ran to re-examine a read?

I saw the case, and I just don't agree with it. He seems like he's doing the typical trying to lead town crap that a lot of players do, and that's flat out null to me. His logic in general seems fairly sound.

I'm not commenting on your case piece by piece because that will just be a waste of time. Plus I'm on my phone anyway.

@ Arcane Inferno :

I had problems with how MB was handling his protein read. Similar to what he was saying, I was having trouble accepting that Protein was town. But after re-reading Levi, I came to the conclusion that Levi was suspicious independently, and that MB would be town if Protein were somehow scum. (But I'm not thinking that protein is suspicious now, I'm dropping that, MB is right that he is quite vocal and putting in alot of work, it was just some concerns that have tripped me up)

@ Dramatic Flair : That is good. And ok, that makes sense. No way you can read scumlaundry/kuz lurking it up because there aren't there. On the meta, doesn't quite help me as I have no idea what you mean, but I can see that Levi does scum it up here, even though I see some of the meta here. It's why I joined the wagon in the first place right after you. On Dabuz for me it's meta, I just expect more out of him by now. But you are right, he'll show himself eventually and I can wait for that. That's why I'm on Levi now.

@ Lore @JeXs @ Kantrip

Why are you guys townreading Levi? Can you each substantiate this, and give thoughts on MB's case on levi, and then show how it affects your read on Levi?

Ok, out for the day. Have martial arts soon.

See above.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

I'm only up to page 7, but even from just that Werekill sticks out mad crazy. Funnily enough the tells he has given are kind of similar to scum J in Rockin's last sleep over.



Points Against Werekill

1. Appease



I'll leave this part out for now because it is the most circumstancial aspect of his play; and people tend to always focus/strawman the most circumstantial part of a case.





2. No scum hunt



Werekill has absolutely no scum hunting intent behind his posts. All of his posts have been about contributing not about finding scum. Contribution is a primary goal is an enormous scum tell. It is one of the most reliable scum tells in my opinion because town rarely is focused on contribution > finding scum. Even noob town you can get a sense of them trying to figure out the game even if they are more inclined to worry about how much they appear to be contributing by the rest of the town.

@ #HBC | Leviathan Fair enough, I suppose. I'm just glad we're solidly past that phase.



I'll read the last few pages (woo, layover in Atlanta airport) and comment on Protean since he seems to be the current topic.

This post is precisely what I am talking about. I'll "comment on Protean since he seems to be the current topic" is a major scum tell in this context in my opinion. This directly shows that werekill is engaged with the selfless act of how he is contributing and not the selfish act in how he can find scum. This may seem counterintuitive because normally selflessess is associated with positivity where as selfishness is negative. But in all realness, mafia is a very selfish game (as most games probably are). We are each playing because we want to win. As town we do that by finding scum. We each have that self driven desire to find the scum among us. Were kill does not have that drive here. He is focused on providing content. That is, he is focused on how he is appearing.







3. Opportunity



This string of posts really really stick out:

Leviathan, this is only page 6. Why are you going for a lynch so early? Especially after only, what, 24 hours or so after the game started? Let the game go on more so we can get the maximum amount of connections with this lynch and future ones.



I'm really not a fan of fast early lynches, haha. Especially after that disco upick game.

1.] @Protean The Shifting



The timing of Ranmaru's entrance to the game does not change my point. I was analyzing Zen's treatment of JeXs and your reaction to it.



2.] @ Lore The Naive



When you think you have scum, you lynch them. You are trapped in a close-minded mentality. There is no such thing as RVS. There is no given time limit during which you have to lynch scum. These are arbitrary titles and ideas that made their way into this atmosphere for various reasons. I think Protean is scum. I think if he is green, then Bunzy is most definitely scum. There is almost nothing that will change my mind on this meaning their flip is what I need to progress my reads. Flips require votes.



3.] @ Dramatic Flair The Thorough



Leave Werekill be for now. He is young and does not know the proper ways; I will try to educate him. Bigger frogs to fry.

You know Leviathan, I freely admit that I don't have enough good experience at all (I'm not counting my freak out games as proper experience), and I actually appreciate you giving me advice. If you want to continue with that, it would be awesome.



I'm still just not entirely comfortable with a fast lynch D1, though. Why give up more connections and posts for the sake of a single flip? Is it based on the logic that we can get a large number of posts on any day instead of "saving" D1 to be a long day full of posts?





Oh, and the layover is over, my plane is boarding. Shouldn't be too long, I suppose. Just going from Atl to Tallahassee, which is 45ish minutes if I recall.

@MOD: Request Votecount



I'm down to vote now, but I want to see a votecount just in case it's an accidental hammer.



My biggest issue is still the quickness, especially considering how some people have still barely posted, but you guys have convinced me. I'll go with it. It DID work well later on in a couple games, so the more I think the more I realize that I guess it could work D1 too.

This is full of Werekill teetering between playing the browny towny and taking an opportunity. He starts off with the initial way that a model towny should present themselves; being against a quick lynch. But slowly attempt so make the transition into agreeing with the quick lynch. The transition, however, is so incredibly janky and unreal. It reeks of scum trying to take the opportunity of an early day lynch. He goes from arguing against the three posts before to suddenly being ready to lynch.



Not only that, but this is so very anti-Werekill. Especially from what I've seen in Monster and his short time in the Upick. You can tell that Werekill doesn't care about his image. He cares about doing what's right for town and finding scum. As most town players do. This is not what he is presenting here. Here is merely appeasing the players and going along with the flow, taking advantage of what he can.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Werekill has absolutely no scum hunting intent behind his posts. All of his posts have been about contributing not about finding scum. Contribution is a primary goal is an enormous scum tell. It is one of the most reliable scum tells in my opinion because town rarely as focused on contribution > finding scum. Even noob town you can get a sense of them trying to figure out the game even if they are more inclined to worry about how much they appear to be contributing by the rest of the town.

This is full of Werekill teetering between playing the browny towny and taking an opportunity. He starts off with the initial way that a model towny should present themselves; being against a quick lynch. But slowly attempt to make the transition into agreeing with the quick lynch. The transition, however, is so incredibly janky and unreal. It reeks of scum trying to take the opportunity of an early day lynch. He goes from arguing against the three posts before to suddenly being ready to lynch.

Relevant edits in green. Very odd formatting, sorry about that. I'll go into the appease part as well. I just wanted to get that out there.

@#HBC | J @ #HBC | Leviathan thoughts? Please switch to Were if you can.

 

[Lore]

I... Don't care about my image? I'll comment on the rest in a moment (on my phone so I can't reply too quickly), but that stuck out to me. I've been told that I have an absurdly reactive and defensive playstyle, and I might as well mention the freakouts even though I'm trying to remove that entirely. That sounds very much like caring about my image.

Because I was told this, I'm trying to just go with the flow more instead of reacting hugely to every post that mentions me in any way. I'm caring about my image, but in a different way than before. I'm taking any point against me as not a personal attack but instead something to calmly reply to.

This also leads into one of your other points, me changing my mind on the quicker lynch. Look at Monster; my opinion was changed there as well. I'm slowly coming around to the idea that quicker lynches are fine on Day 1, and Levi's post convinced me, especially after I finally realized that it doesn't matter WHAT day activity happens on, just that it happens.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Wait actually that first edit wasn't necessary lol.

 

[Lore]

Next and likely last part: I flat out answered the "no scum hunting" part in a post a couple posts ago. Nothing has screamed scum to me so far, just a few small things here and there. I'm sure that will change as the game progresses.

And you're only on page 7? I've posted a good bit more than that.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

I don't mean your image as a person. I mean your image as slot in the game. What I mean by this is that town will post when they want to not because it is required of them.

I could believe that you were just being open minded, to me it looks like you were taking opportunity. The transition just doesn't feel natural.

I don't believe the amount of posts you have later on will change that you're scum.