Lucina: Separate character or costume? (Confirmed separate character)

[ihskeyp]

Who knows, perhaps they may introduce Clone slots, where two different characters of the same series who have the same moveset with maybe stat changes share a single slot. Therefore, Link/Toon Link share a slot, Marth/Lucina share a slot, and Fox/Falco share a slot. Assuming they are kept similar, Ganon and C. Falcon would NOT share a slot due being from different series. This could potentially make some more room on the roster

Maybe but I don't think so, Toon Link was playable in the 3ds demo and he and Link had their own slots.

 

[The21stSmasher]

Who knows, perhaps they may introduce Clone slots, where two different characters of the same series who have the same moveset with maybe stat changes share a single slot. Therefore, Link/Toon Link share a slot.

Remember E3 2014 and the demo of SSB4 for the 3DS? Link and Toon Link didn't shared a slot. They were separate. I don't think that'll be happening.

 

[EchoesOfRain]

Go all in or don't go in at all, otherwise you're just contradicting yourself.

Don't see why characters from different series would share a slot. That's like asking Mario to share a slot with King DDD. Besides, I predict that Ganon is finally getting a unique moveset this game anyways

Maybe but I don't think so, Toon Link was playable in the 3ds demo and he and Link had their own slots.

Hey, there's no telling what will happen during development!

Sakurai is good at surprising us. I'm sure he has something up his sleeve

 

[Bladeviper]

Don't see why characters from different series would share a slot. That's like asking Mario to share a slot with King DDD. Besides, I predict that Ganon is finally getting a unique moveset this game anyways



Hey, there's no telling what will happen during development!

Sakurai is good at surprising us. I'm sure he has something up his sleeve

well if ganon is in he would since he would be a newcomer technically

 

[Xtreme Starfox]

Go all in or don't go in at all, otherwise you're just contradicting yourself.

You're implying this should be viewed as certainty either way. There's arguments for and against it no matter how much you think the arguments for it are concrete.

Apparently having a question mark means it's sarcastic.

No the whole point of that was that she was losing to Capt. Falcon.

Are you sure of that? What would you theoretically gamble on that if you are so certain? Because none of us right now except who wrote and OK'd that in her tagline know.

Why does this thread exist?

So we can get intelligent posts contributing to a discussion like this.

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh I haven't really bothered to read throught the thread but if this is about her small square at the main website. That is probably because both she and Robin share the same trailer and artwork. I guess Sakurai probably found it redundant to upload that twice.

Anyway, she will most likely be a separate semi clone. In other words. A separate character.

 

[Shin F.]

I think she's a Costume. I'm sure all the points have been brought up, but the most damning in my eyes is this one:

Even clones in the Smash series have their own subtle differences. Everyone knows this. There's still pieces of personality in the characters that carry over from their games.

Everyone here knows Lucina's sword stance, right? It was shown in the trailer near the beginning, even.

If Lucina is her own character and is just a clone, why does she stand in Marth's idle sword stance?

Roy had his own idle animations in Melee. I doubt they'd make Lucina her own character just to give her Marth's stance instead of her own. WIP is no longer an excuse, because the game is way too close to completion for them to have not done this yet.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ LancerStaff

I'm willing to bet you $200 says she's a newcomer.

If you really believe that, put your money where you mouth is.

 

[Tenchi Boom]

Costume.

She had no special mention on Miiverse like CF and the Robyn's did. Think it's cause she has her own voice and is a completely different character altogether, so they have her a little banner on the site to show this. Villager, Miis and Wii Fit Trainer don't really have separating personalities, so it explains why their genderbends didn't get one.

 

[Inawordyes]

Lucina is probably going to get the PotD tomorrow or sometime within the week and that Sakurai is going to clarify that she is playable, maybe even detail how much (or how little) she is like Marth. More likely especially now that everybody is getting up in arms about it.

 

[Repiteo]

To me, this puts the nail in the coffin for the Lucina costume theory:

ign com/articles/2014/07/14/super-smash-bros-gets-four-new-fighters

Nintendo corrected IGN's article. It originally stated that Lucina, Robin and Chrom were all fighters, but it then was corrected to say that only Lucina and Robin were fighters.

So if Nintendo directly and up front clarified on an inaccuracy regarding the new Smash game... Why wouldn't they correct Lucina as well? If Lucina was really just a costume and not a new character entirely, Nintendo would have clarified that as well, and it would have been corrected in the article.

As it stands, Nintendo did not correct it because it didn't need correcting. She is, by all accounts, a playable character.

 

[Shin F.]

To me, this puts the nail in the coffin for the Lucina costume theory:

ign com/articles/2014/07/14/super-smash-bros-gets-four-new-fighters

Nintendo corrected IGN's article. It originally stated that Lucina, Robin and Chrom were all fighters, but it then was corrected to say that only Lucina and Robin were fighters.

So if Nintendo directly and up front clarified on an inaccuracy regarding the new Smash game... Why wouldn't they correct Lucina as well? If Lucina was really just a costume and not a new character entirely, Nintendo would have clarified that as well, and it would have been corrected in the article.

As it stands, Nintendo did not correct it because it didn't need correcting. She is, by all accounts, a playable character.

Even if she's a costume, she's still a playable fighter, though.

 

[Xtreme Starfox]

...She is a fighter though nobody is saying otherwise and the wording is not wrong regardless if she's an Alt or her own character.

@ LancerStaff

I'm willing to bet you $200 says she's a newcomer.

If you really believe that, put your money where you mouth is.

And I bet a *believable amount of sum* that she's actually a AT.

I put my money where my mouth is, we are all trustworthy here on the internet right?

 

[Solbliminal]

Honestly, I don't see why they would put a lazy effort into Lucina when she is highly capable of not being a Marth clone. Of course they would consider her a separate fighter, because unlike the other characters she isn't the person she plays like. But if Fire Emblem Awakening is any indication:

Spoiler

She disguised herself as Marth. It would still make sense that she is a costume in this regard.

 

[Repiteo]

Even if she's a costume, she's still a playable Fighter, though.

If they were to clarify one inaccuracy, why not clarify them all? The IGN article is presenting the Lucina as just as much of a newcomer as Robin, so why not go that extra mile and establish that Lucina is not actually her own character?

 

[Shin F.]

If they were to clarify one inaccuracy, why not clarify them all? The IGN article is presenting the Lucina as just as much of a newcomer as Robin, so why not go that extra mile and establish that Lucina is not actually her own character?

That's a good question. I have a better one. If she's her own character, why didn't they go the extra mile to give her her own sword / idling stance instead of copying Marth's?

 

[Johnknight1]

And I bet a *believable amount of sum* that she's actually a AT.

I put my money where my mouth is, we are all trustworthy here on the internet right?

Back in 2007 I bet $50 Diddy would be playable against a doubter.

The fool never payed up and disappeared from the internet, lol!!!!

 

[Repiteo]

That's a good question. I have a better one. If she's her own character, why didn't they go the extra mile to give her her own sword / idling stance instead of copying Marth's?

Touche.

Though, with that in mind, both questions have weight to them, and I doubt that we will know for sure whether or not she is a costume or her own character until Sakurai himself says it without room for interpretation, which will likely be later this week in a PotD.

 

[Shin F.]

Touche.

Though, with that in mind, both questions have weight to them, and I doubt that we will know for sure whether or not she is a costume or her own character until Sakurai himself says it without room for interpretation, which will likely be later this week in a PotD.

I hope he does so ASAP. I don't particularly mind either way, but I'd really like to know so we can all calm down a little, lol.

 

[Xtreme Starfox]

I see a potential that she's her "own character" (like different slot) but may play exactly like Marth, if so would she be a clone or alt?

Back in 2007 I bet $50 Diddy would be playable against a doubter.

The fool never payed up and disappeared from the internet, lol!!!!

Sure and nobody knows about your credibility or the person you would bet against, so the point of throwing out bets at thin air does not show anybody how truly sure they are in their "speculation" nor does it help the discussion.

 

[lightdasher]

Are you sure of that? What would you theoretically gamble on that if you are so certain? Because none of us right now except who wrote and OK'd that in her tagline know..

Would I gamble that she's a fighter? I'd win before it started.

 

[Repiteo]

I hope he does so ASAP. I don't particularly mind either way, but I'd really like to know so we can all calm down a little, lol.

As long as it doesn't reach Ridley discussion levels of intensity, we should be fine.

 

[AncientArk]

Has a small box on the site, implying she isn't as much of a newcomer as the rest. (Mobile site has a bigger box, presumably to fill a gap.)

I think the reason for this is because Robin was the focus of the reveal trailer and Lucina shares the special artwork. Robin is the focus because the video specifially desplays his/her special moves and gimmicks, not Lucina.
Yes, Lucina may end up being a clone. But the fact is, she is a seperate character, not a costume.

For whatever storyline reasons she's inspired by Marth, I dont know and don't care, she looks awesome.

 

[dezeray112]

I think she's a Costume. I'm sure all the points have been brought up, but the most damning in my eyes is this one:

Even clones in the Smash series have their own subtle differences. Everyone knows this. There's still pieces of personality in the characters that carry over from their games.

Everyone here knows Lucina's sword stance, right? It was shown in the trailer near the beginning, even.

If Lucina is her own character and is just a clone, why does she stand in Marth's idle sword stance?

Roy had his own idle animations in Melee. I doubt they'd make Lucina her own character just to give her Marth's stance instead of her own. WIP is no longer an excuse, because the game is way too close to completion for them to have not done this yet.

I'm still leaning on that Lucina is a seperate character. But that ?! does seem to point to something.

 

[Johnknight1]

Lucina has unique properties in her side B and neutral air.

She's a clone character just like Toon Link (except unlike Toon Link, she's not vastly superior to the original most likely).

I bet the next few weeks Sakurai is gonna milllllllllllllllllkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk this out...

 

[Xtreme Starfox]

Would I gamble that she's a fighter? I'd win before it started.

No. I was not questioning you on if she's a fighter or not (fighter is true for both arguments btw), I was questioning you seeming being so sure what the question mark meant that she's losing to falcon.

Lucina has unique properties in her side B and neutral air.

Proof would be nice.

 

[Bladeviper]

I hope he does so ASAP. I don't particularly mind either way, but I'd really like to know so we can all calm down a little, lol.

the only way it would tick me off if she is an alt for marth is if the game says she is marth, like we selected or when she wins. Doing that seems like a slap in the face to her fans

 

[Solbliminal]

Honestly, if Lucina is a clone of Marth it is one of the laziest clones I've ever seen. But considering the company who is working on this game....

... I'd say it is safe to assume she is a costume.

 

[LancerStaff]

I kinda accidentally made an overly long post. The first half was supposed to get posted earlier but my internet goofed. Yes, I replied to some of you multiple times.

Actually another user said those words.

Regardless, if you're so confident, seeing as how I'm confident, we should prove a winner by the best way possible...

...a monetary bet on the internet.

Why not a signature bet?

He likes to mess with fans? Yes.

Does he make things this complicated after a character is confirmed? No.

He can start any day now.

I don't even know where this alt stuff started! We've had clones before, and she was announced just like any other newcomer. Sakurai didn't say she was a costume, in fact since he most likely runs the site he called her a NEWCOMER! Why are peoe still discussing this!?

We've had alt costumes for a while now, and people were asking for a Lucina costume for Marth. Now she's been revealed to be playable and has almost no changes from Marth...

This I doubt. She got a full character splash, and gameplay footage. Dark Pit got a cameo at best...


Uhh... Dude, male WFT won't have his own panel on site lol. He is an alternate costume; Lucina is a character. No, but seriously, think about it. If Peach were to get Daisy as an alternate costume, do you really expect her to have her own panel on-site as well? Either on the character select screen it will have Marth/Lucina and you get to pick which one before the battle starts (so basically Zelda/Sheik) or... Lucina's her own character. Now that we know that character slots will be individual, Lucina is her own character. I still don't really understand how this argument appears to hold weight with people.


Because people are in denial over it, for some reason. We'll have newspaper articles saying "Lucina confirmed for smash, causes self-harm among teenagers" since apparently her inclusion is so bad everyone is getting depressed over it...



And they would want this to happen because..?


In which case Sakurai is probably just waiting for an artist to draw up a nice piece of art for him to stick by her name. I don't understand why the mobile design would have a full newcomer banner, while the web browser one wouldn't. Filling space is an OK argument, but also one that holds no water, because he could just enlarge the rest of the boxes a little bit...

And Dark Pit was deconfirmed from Trophy, Assist Trophy and Playable status when? I think you saw me going the wrong way with my statement there... I was meaning he should be going up in the world! >_>


Yes, but he meant if, theoretically, Chrom was included, would he not be a clone of Ike. The answer is no, thus Lucina is probably not one for Marth.



But he has never confirmed something and then deconfirmed it later on besides Sonic, who has been returned to Smash.

You doubt, but can't disprove.

I said could, not will. Daisy could also get a slot on the site.

To keep people guessing until the last moment.

Or she's not as important. And what are you trying to say about Dark Pit? All I said was that he was teased in Palutena's trailer and could be the same thing as Lucina, they just haven't shown us yet.

So because he could have a different moveset he wouldn't be a costume? ...What?

My original post in this topic that you already quoted states the facts.

If you want more detail: Go the mobile website. Lucina has a fully sized newcomer image on the main page, it says 'newcomer'. She has a "Warning! New Challenger Approaching!" banner, just like Robin and Captain Falcon. She has her own page, which on both the mobile and PC/Mac website labels her as a newcomer. The website also indicates that the introduction for a new challenger, Lucina has been added. Lastly, in the trailer she gets an introductory pose and phrase.

If those facts don't convince you, I don't even know what to say. This is as clear as day.

Clear as day? No such thing. People were just as adamant as you were about Gemnatsu and Shulk being revealed. Why are you right? Because you say so? You're making a sad attempt at making those who disagree with you see the "truth." People like you crop up whenever there's a topic of any level of controversy. Simply saying "You're all idiots and I'm right! SEE!?" accomplishes nothing. You want to win this argument the way you think you can? Then actually completely prove it. You haven't, so it keeps going.

This entire argument is ridiculous.

Yes, saying it's completely impossible for her to be a costume is ridiculous since Sakurai hasn't said a thing.

Apparently having a question mark means it's sarcastic.

No the whole point of that was that she was losing to Capt. Falcon.

It could be sarcastic. She could be a costume. Speaking in definites means you're begging to be proven wrong. You people realize I don't think her being a character is insane, right? I said that in the OP.

@ LancerStaff

I'm willing to bet you $200 says she's a newcomer.

If you really believe that, put your money where you mouth is.

I don't make monetary bets with strangers over the internet, especially on unpredictable things like Sakurai.

 

[TheCJBrine]

http://smashboards.com/threads/looks-like-no-tipper-for-lucina-1080p-video-screen-capture.361131/

Seems to be a difference between her and Marth.
Not a costume.

 

[ihskeyp]

I kinda accidentally made an overly long post. The first half was supposed to get posted earlier but my internet goofed. Yes, I replied to some of you multiple times.



Why not a signature bet?



He can start any day now.



We've had alt costumes for a while now, and people were asking for a Lucina costume for Marth. Now she's been revealed to be playable and has almost no changes from Marth...



You doubt, but can't disprove.

I said could, not will. Daisy could also get a slot on the site.

To keep people guessing until the last moment.

Or she's not as important. And what are you trying to say about Dark Pit? All I said was that he was teased in Palutena's trailer and could be the same thing as Lucina, they just haven't shown us yet.

So because he could have a different moveset he wouldn't be a costume? ...What?



Clear as day? No such thing. People were just as adamant as you were about Gemnatsu and Shulk being revealed. Why are you right? Because you say so? You're making a sad attempt at making those who disagree with you see the "truth." People like you crop up whenever there's a topic of any level of controversy. Simply saying "You're all idiots and I'm right! SEE!?" accomplishes nothing. You want to win this argument the way you think you can? Then actually completely prove it. You haven't, so it keeps going.



Yes, saying it's completely impossible for her to be a costume is ridiculous since Sakurai hasn't said a thing.



It could be sarcastic. She could be a costume. Speaking in definites means you're begging to be proven wrong. You people realize I don't think her being a character is insane, right? I said that in the OP.


I don't make monetary bets with strangers over the internet, especially on unpredictable things like Sakurai.

Yes people asked for a costume... But they didn't get one... They got a clone She's a newcomer, she's listed as her own character and everything.

 

[Wyoming]

I'm still leaning on that Lucina is a seperate character. But that ?! does seem to point to something.

That ?! to me just looked like Sakurai poking fun at everyone expecting Chrom and not her.

And I believe that ?! was indeed the reaction everyone had as well...poking fun once again.

 

[Turokman5896]

Lucina has unique properties in her side B and neutral air.

She's a clone character just like Toon Link (except unlike Toon Link, she's not vastly superior to the original most likely).

I bet the next few weeks Sakurai is gonna milllllllllllllllllkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk this out...

We don't know that at all. This is possibly a different build from E3.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yes people asked for a costume... But they didn't get one... They got a clone She's a newcomer, she's listed as her own character and everything.

Should I say it again or what?

http://smashboards.com/threads/looks-like-no-tipper-for-lucina-1080p-video-screen-capture.361131/

Seems to be a difference between her and Marth.
Not a costume.

Ahem.

This is interesting, but I don't think it proves much. Personally, I'd like to see if the sword slash matches with another character before we make the call. Who knows, it could be a placeholder if it matches Link's or something.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Ahem.

Not a placeholder, or at least not one taken from a character. All other sword-users have a different slash.

 

[lightdasher]

Compare this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0ej06eP_uY

With this
http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y

You'll see a difference

 

[LancerStaff]

Not a placeholder, or at least not one taken from a character. All other sword-users have a different slash.

Lets just keep the tipper discussion in that topic until we somehow unearth something definite.

 

[Johnknight1]

Proof would be nice.

Replay the video in the 10 seconds where she fights and you'll see her Side B and neutral air have unique properties.

Sure and nobody knows about your credibility or the person you would bet against, so the point of throwing out bets at thin air does not show anybody how truly sure they are in their "speculation" nor does it help the discussion.

Eh, fair enough.

 

[Turokman5896]

Replay the video in the 10 seconds where she fights and you'll see her Side B and neutral air have unique properties.

Again, we don't know that, we havent seen any updated marth gameplay.

 

[lightdasher]

Compare this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0ej06eP_uY

With this
http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y

You'll see a difference

Actually maybe this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3-7bdn5as would be better, you can see an Up air about 3 seconds into the match