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Lucina Moveset Data & Analysis Thread

Katakiri

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Welcome everyone to the Lucina Moveset Data Thread, where we break-down everything Lucina has to offer and discover how to use Lucina to her full potential.




Moves:

About KO Potential: Currently, all KO Percents are tested against Marth standing at about 3/4ths the length of Final Destination. KO percents can vary between where you're standing, character weight, DI, and other factors.



Jab
Two standing vertical sword swings. Identical to Marth's in appearance and function.
Damage Values: 4.75% (First Jab) 4.75% (2nd Jab)
KO Potential: None


Forward Tilt
An upward slice Lucina leans into, giving it more range than her similar Jab. Hits both in front of her and above her.
Damage Values: 9.9%
KO Potential: Low / None
Start-Up Lag: 8 frames. Hits on frame 9 - 13. (Needs further testing)
Ending Lag: 27 frames. 40 frames total move duration. (Needs further testing)

Gameplay Applications: F-Tilt is one of Lucina's best defensive options on the ground due to its long reach and its ability to bat-away both grounded and aerial foes. Its most common use is as an anti-air swat that is much safer than F-Air against an aerial approaching foe. It also makes a decent follow-up to Lucina's short hopped F-Air. When dealing with a grounded opponent, it is important to note your spacing and your opponent's patterns to decide whether an F-Tilt, D-Tilt (shorter reach but less ending lag), or a Shield Breaker (slightly more reach and punishes shielding but provides no vertical coverage) is the more appropriate option.


Down Tilt
A quick crouching stab.
Damage Values: 8%
Knock-back: Low. Pushes the opponent a few character spaces away.
KO Potential: None


Up Tilt
An overhead swing from front to back, encompassing a large area around Lucina.
Damage Values: 6.6% (Front half), 7.125% (Back half)
KO Potential: Low

Gameplay Applications: Another of Lucina's anti-airs. It reaches slightly higher than F-Tilt but not as far horizontally. This move can be great for juggling aerial foes while blocking approaches from above.

Dash Attack
Damage Values: 9.975%
KO Potential: Low


Forward Smash
An powerful overhead swing from back to front that covers both in front and above Lucina. Lucina's most powerful KO move.
Damage Values: 14.8% (Uncharged), 20.5% (Fully Charged)
Knock-back:
KO Potential: High (90% (Uncharged))

Gameplay Applications: F-Smash is fairly unsafe on block so F-Smash should primarily be used when your opponent whiffs an attack or is attempting to attack from the air. Shield Breaker is a great mix-up if your opponent is conditioned to block F-Smash. Not much else to say; it's a solid Smash Attack.


Down Smash
Two crouching slices across the ground, one in front of Lucina and another behind her.
Damage Values: 9.7% (1st Hit Uncharged), 13.3% (1st Hit Fully Charged), 14% (2nd Hit Uncharged), 19% (2nd Hit Fully Charged)
Knock-back:
Knockback:
KO Potential: Medium (145% (1st Hit Uncharged) 120% (2nd Hit Uncharged))

Gameplay Applications: Down Smash is one of Lucina's least useful moves, if not the least useful. Aside from having slightly more reach, Up-Smash is the Smash Attack that best covers both side of Lucina as it hits both at the same time and is a safer attack overall.


Up Smash
A powerful skyward stab. Has huge disjointed hitboxes on both sides of Lucina with the backwards hitbox being even more disjointed than the front.
Damage Values: 17.5% (Uncharged), 14% (Tippered Uncharged), 24% (Fully Charged), 19% (Tippered Fully Charged)
Knock-back:
KO Potential: High (110% (Uncharged))

Gameplay Applications: Lucina's 'get off me' Smash Attack. It's definitely her go-to option for punishing rolls because the hitboxes to either side of Lucina are just so big. As with most of Lucina's moves, the hitboxes on the move all have the same knockback and damage so this move can be devastating when the opponent is highly damaged. It can also be done out of a dash so use it liberally when the opponent is either in the air trying to land or rolling away or behind you.


Neutral Air
Lucina spins, swinging her sword in front, behind, and then in front of her again.
Damage Values: 2.34% (1st Hit), 6.67% (2nd Forward-facing Hit), 6.67% (Backswing)
Knock-back:
KO Potential: Low


Forward Air
A quick vertical slice in front of Lucina. Can be short hopped with no landing lag!
Damage Values: 8%
Knock-back:
KO Potential: Medium (Off-stage)

Gameplay Applications: Lucina's bread and butter approach option. It's difficult to punish because you can fade the attack and have no landing lag from a short hop. It also chains into itself for off-stage gimps. F-Throw can chain into SH F-Air depending on vectoring. Follow-ups for F-Air can be another SH F-Air (if they miss the floor tech), F-Smash, Dancing Blade, or anything that can reach the opponent on-hit. Shield Breaker as a followup or even a short hopped mix-up can punish shielding F-Air. The 3DS makes the move less safe than it should be but with a C-Stick it will likely become an even safer move as we can F-Air while moving backwards. Jump and Slash, Jump and Slash.


Back Air
A vertical slice from bottom to top that turns Lucina around in mid-air. Can be short hopped with no landing lag!
Damage Values: 9.99%
Knock-back:
KO Potential: High (Off-stage)


Down Air
A downward swing from back to front. Can spike when Falchion is directly below Lucina's extended leg; think of it like a disjointed stomp.
Damage Values: 11.4%, 13.3% (Spike Hitbox)
Knock-back:
KO Potential: None (180-190+, 200%+ (Spike Hitbox while Grounded))


Up Air
An upward swing from front to back. Can be short hopped with no landing lag!
Damage Values: 9.99%
Knock-back:
KO Potential: None (200%)


Neutral Special - Shield Breaker

Lucina preforms a lunging thrust forward using Parallel Falchion. This move has exceptionally high shield damage and can fully break an opponent's shield with only a small charge; it also reduces the opponent's shield regeneration rate for a few seconds should their shield survive. This is by far Lucina's longest-reaching attack as well. The move can be held and charged for 1.2 seconds before the attack begins automatically.

Damage Values: 8.0% (Uncharged), 21.8% (Fully Charged)
KO Potential: High (54% (Fully Charged), 110% (Half-Charged), 170% (Uncharged))
Start-Up Lag: 19 frames. Hits on frame 20. (Needs further testing)
Ending Lag: 35 frames. 55 frames total move duration. (Needs further testing)

Gameplay Applications: With fast start-up and cool-down times totaling less than a second combined, Shield Breaker is one of Lucina's most potent mix-up options, easily rivaling Dancing Blade in practicality. Throwing it out when an opponent shields, off of a read, as a follow-up, or simply as a well-spaced poke will tell opponents that shields are a no-go in any match-up against Lucina. If their shield breaks, a fully charged Up-Smash is Lucina's highest damage-dealer at low percents but if the opponent is at 70+% (depending on Vectoring and Weight) a fully-charged Shield Breaker is Lucina's best option to finish the job. Tapping Shield Breaker for the lowest start-up time won't break a fresh shield entirely but it brings their shield levels so low that opponents will break their own shield should they attempt to block anything. That means, for a few seconds, Lucina can go all-out with no fear of her attacks being blocked.

Shield Breaker is great for covering the opponent's get-up, roll, and attacking ledge options due to the safety of its long reach and naturally negating the shield option after a foe's ledge option. It's also a decent follow-up to a Short-Hopped F-Air due to F-Air's knock-back angle at medium percents lining up the opponent perfectly for a landing Shield Breaker which again covers the shield option opponents might opt for after being hit by SH F-Air expecting a follow-up SH F-Air. Once you get a feel for the move and start applying it, I guarantee you'll be busting shields regularly.


Side Special - Dancing Blade
Lucina's version of Marth's Dancing Blade. Same as it ever was.
Damage Values Neutral Combo: 3.3%, 3.3%, 4.3%, 5.3% (16.2% total)
Damage Values Up Combo: 3.3%, 3,3%, 4.3%, 6.3% (17.2% total)
Damage Values Down Combo: 3.3%, 3.3%, 3.3%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 4.3% (22.2% total)
KO Potential: Varies


Down Special - Counter
Counters an attack if hit. Identical to Marth's.
Damage and knockback is dependent on what hit Lucina.


Up Special / Recovery - Dolphin Slash
A rising skyward slash. Lucina's recovery move.
Damage Values: 11% (Strong Hitbox at start), 7% (Weak Hitbox near end)
KO Potential: Medium (160%)

Recovering as Lucina: The best advice I can give you is to save your mid-air jump and recover low. Lucina is very easy to gimp off-stage should you not save your jump for only when you need it. Recovering low remedies this somewhat by making Lucina difficult to nail with a projectile and suicidal to attempt to chase. With her jump intact and her Dolphin Slash, Lucina can recover even when low enough to enter off-screen bubble state near the bottom blast-zone on most stages.If you must recovery high or mid, keep in mind that a well-timed Counter will shut-down any chasing attempts as well as stall Lucina in the air for a brief moment. Also remember that the ledge is always safe in SSB4 as ledge-hogging doesn't exist.


Grab / Pummel
A grab with average reach and a rising knee strike for her pummel.
Damage Values: 2%


Forward Throw
Throws the opponent diagonally upward.
Damage Values: 4%
KO Potential: None


Back Throw
Throws the opponent diagonally upward behind Lucina.
Damage Values: 4%
KO Potential: None


Down Throw
Throws the opponent at the ground and ground-bounces them directly above Lucina.
Damage Values: 5%
KO Potential: None


Up Throw
Throws the opponent directly upward.
Damage Values: 4%
KO Potential:



Final Smash - Critical Hit
Dashes at the opponent and OHKOes them. Fire Emblem-style HP bar included.
Damage Values: 60%
KO Potential: KOs at 0%

Taunts:

Up Taunt
Lucina twirls her sword then poses with it. The pose is her character art pose.


Side Taunt
Lucina does a 180 degree turn, sheaths her sword, then turns again while unsheathing it.


Down Taunt
Lucina puts on her mask, the mask shines and she poses with her hand on her hip, then she puts the mask away

Custom Moves

Neutral B

Storm Thrust
Lucina thrusts forward in a similar fashion to shield breaker and a cyclone comes out of the tip of the sword. Can be charged but not much knockback even when fully charged. The cyclone works in a similar way to Mario's fludd, it doesn't do actual damage, only sends the opponent away. You float for a bit if you use it in the air and there's no free fall, so this can be used for recovery, but otherwise it seems like a weak move.
4% (uncharged) - 10% (fully charged)

Assault Dash
Lucina dashes forward with her sword. The more you charges, the further it goes. At full charge it goes like 2/3rds of Final Destination. It kills at like 90% when fully charged so not a whole lot of knockback.
6% (uncharged) -- 18% (fully charged)

Forward B
Easy Combination
This move resembles Marth's dancing blade in Brawl. It's a dancing blade that can be performed quicker, but can be only done forward, and deals less damage and knockback.
10%

Heavy Combination
It's a "strong" version of the dancing blade. Slower, but much more powerful. Its biggest shortcoming is that it doesn't actually combos into itself, and each hit has a healthy dose of knockback. Lots of damage and knockback (specially on the last hit).
9% (first hit) -- 17% (last hit)

Up B

Crescent Slash
It's a dolphin slash in crescent arc with very low knockback and damage. Can be reversed, landing lag seems the same as Dolphin Slash. Struggles to kill even at 300%.
7%

Dolphin High Jump
Not hitbox, no damage, no knockback, but Lucina goes straight up in the sky, but oh boy she does go high. Can only be used for recovery, I think. With a double jump and Dolphin High Jump you can go offscreen, just to illustrate how high it goes.

Down B
Easy Counter
Same as counter except it last much longer but with very low damage and knockback. Knockback may be fixed or very low in scaling because I couldn't kill with it at 400%.
Variable damage, but I reflected a random Fox tilt and it did 3% lol

Iai (居合) Counter
It's a counter with very few active frames, when it hits, Lucina does a small dash forward and swings upwards. Strangely it doesn't seem more powerful than regular counter, as I couldn't kill Ganon after countering its Wizard Kick at 140%, but I'm not too sure lol.
14% on Ganon's Wizard Kick
 
Last edited:

Robertman2

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Welcome everyone to the Lucina Moveset Data Thread, where we break-down everything Lucina has to offer and discover how to use Lucina to her full potential. We're currently setting up shop with Smash 4's Japanese release still fresh so please bear with us as we get everything sorted out.

I'll be working on this throughout the day, so check back every once in a while.

Cosmetics:
Alternate Costumes without Mask


Moves:

Jab
Description
Damage Values: 4% (First Jab) (5% 2nd Jab)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Forward Tilt
Description
Damage Values: Varies? Always 9% the first time but 10% every time after.
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Down Tilt
Description
Damage Values: 8%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Up Tilt
Description
Damage Values: 6% - 7%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Forward Smash
Description
Damage Values: 14% (Uncharged), 20% (Fully Charged)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Down Smash
Description
Damage Values:
Knock-back: 9% (1st Hit Uncharged), 13% (1st Hit Fully Charged), 14% (2nd Hit Uncharged), 19% (2nd Hit Fully Charged)
KO Potential:

Up Smash
Description
Damage Values: 17% (Uncharged), 24% (Fully Charged)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Neutral Air
Description
Damage Values: 2% (1st Hit), 7% (2nd Hit), 15% (Backswing)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Forward Air
A quick vertical slice in front of Lucina. Can be short hopped with no landing lag!
Damage Values: 8%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Back Air
Description
Damage Values: 9%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Down Air
Description
Damage Values: 11%, 13% (Spike Hitbox)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Up Air
Description
Damage Values: 9% - 10%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Neutral Special - Shield Breaker
Description
Damage Values: 8% (Uncharged), 21% (Fully Charged)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Side Special - Dancing Blade
Description
Damage Values:
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Down Special - Counter
Description
Damage Values:
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Up Special / Recovery - Dolphin Slash
Description
Damage Values: 11% (Strong Hitbox at start), 7% (Weak Hitbox near end)
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Grab / Pummel
Description
Damage Values: 2%

Forward Throw
Description
Damage Values: 4%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Back Throw
Description
Damage Values: 4%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Down Throw
Description
Damage Values: 5%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Up Throw
Description
Damage Values: 4%
Knock-back:
KO Potential:

Final Smash - Critical Hit
Description
Damage Values: 60%
Knock-back: A Lot
KO Potential: KOs at 0%

Taunts:

Up Taunt

Side Taunt

Down Taunt​
That made me laugh. Bring in more info!
 

LIQUID12A

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Such a well structured analysis. Keep it coming. Mechanic wise, I'm interested in combos from throws, simple as they could be.

Which taunt puts her mask on also interests me.
 

Katakiri

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Her mask is her down taunt but I haven't found out how to make her keep it on. Puts it one, poses, then removes it. I can cancel the taunt before she takes it off but it just disappears when I do that.

I'm working on descriptions next so I'll detail her taunts there too.
 

JD3

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I'm literally at the edge of my seat waiting for info. Thanks for creating this thread.
 

LIQUID12A

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I have this idea that if you want to keep the mask on, the taunt would have to be executed in 1 frame much like Snake's codec Easter eggs.

I don't know, just a theory.
 

Katakiri

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I haven't unlocked any yet but I'll try to find them

EDIT: Just found a horizontal version of Dolphin Slash for Lucina. Imagine Falco's Side-B combined with Dolphin Slash.
 
Last edited:

Katakiri

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Up-B.

Just found a Shield Breaker variant. It sends Lucina sliding forward when she uses it. Same animation of shield breaker aside from that.

I should probably mention that her and Marth's standard shield breaker are both fantastic moves now. They have very little start-up or cool-down lag. Viable for KOing or applying pressure since shielding it isn't an option.

Right now I'm just playing Smash Run as Lucina to get her moves unlocked.
 
Last edited:

LIQUID12A

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I wish that her spinning trick from Two Falchions is a custom move.



Of course, as she's a Marth clone, unlikely.
 

Katakiri

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Add snapshots of moves. Thankfully, unlike Brawl, this game saves images as easily uploaded jpg files. I'll get a pic of her FS soon.

Just reporting that Marth and Lucina are entirely identical with the only differences being that Lucina does 1% - 2% more damage if Marth doesn't tipper. It's also good news for us that Marth's F-Air tipper was nerfed to be really small. But aside from that, I haven't found anything that one does that the other can't in terms of movement and attack speed.

For the remaining descriptions to moves, I will get to them today but Lucina has identical moves to Marth so the throws are all the same. I'd like to take a break from research for a bit and actually play the game for a little while. I'll keep at this then.
 
Last edited:

Parallel_Falchion

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Ugh. Lucina was my most-wanted newcomer, so I'm happy she's in, but looking at this, and seeing that the lack of tipper really is the only difference, I'm feeling she should have just been left as an alt costume after all. Casual players who don't follow information like this will literally not even be able to even tell the difference between her and Marth. At least she wouldn't invite hatred from clone haters as an alt costume...
 

Wintropy

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Not in the slightest. They are identical bar damage numbers and knockback. Marth has more damage and knockback when he tippers but less damage and knockback when he doesn't compared to Lucina's set damage. It's kinda lame but that's what we're working with.
Then that just means I'll have to use her in the way I want to play her.

No worries - I'm happy to work with a tabula rasa to get good results! ;3
 

Gawain

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I like her as a character, and I'll play her in Smash 4 as a second, but not as much as Robin or the Cap. I'm under no delusion that she's somehow "better" than Marth though, I don't know where this is coming from. Marth is still a VERY solid character. Interested to see what her custom moves will be though. Perhaps that is where she will differentiate more from Marth. Not that I'm putting any money on that. Or that it matters that much to me if I'm being perfectly honest.
 

HdTyvek

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greatly appreciate this thread! looking forward to playing alot of lucina in the future and this will give me a good idea of what im getting into. keep the info coming! its great stuff!
 

Forlorn Penguin

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Have you tried figuring out how to start the match with her mask on?

Just a question, and one that is off topic, but what about replays?
I'd like to know, as well. Is there still a limit to how short a match can be in order to save a replay of it? Also, can you save replays of online matches?
 

JUr

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Thanks for all the info, great thread and that title image is adorable hehe

FAir, BAir y UAir with no landing lag, Fast Shield Breaker without cooldown... Perfect! It would help the rushdown style that I'm envisioning...

I suppose that FSmash, USmash and Shield Breaker are the principal finishers...

Also, SPIKE DAir! I want to play as soon as possible! T-T
 

Ffamran

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Lucina as a teacher is cute. Anyway, aside from Counter, does she have any different animations for her moves? Also, seeing Awakening Falchion that short really throws me off.
 

Mono.

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I gotta say, even though I particularly do not mind clone characters one bit, I am disappointed to see how close she is to Marth. Dair having a tip hitbox is what drove me there, at least. Her having a full-on meteor hitbox throughout the sword is what I was looking forward to.
 

PK Gaming

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Ugh. Lucina was my most-wanted newcomer, so I'm happy she's in, but looking at this, and seeing that the lack of tipper really is the only difference, I'm feeling she should have just been left as an alt costume after all. Casual players who don't follow information like this will literally not even be able to even tell the difference between her and Marth. At least she wouldn't invite hatred from clone haters as an alt costume...
Look on the bright side; being a playable character means she'll get an arcade mode ending/trophy.
 

Shao-tan

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So, I just unlocked all of her custom moves and I'm dumping some data. I can record a ****ty handcam video if someone really wants me to do it.

Neutral B

Storm Thrust

Lucina thrusts forward in a similar fashion to shield breaker and a cyclone comes out of the tip of the sword. Can be charged but not much knockback even when fully charged. The cyclone works in a similar way to Mario's fludd, it doesn't do actual damage, only sends the opponent away. You float for a bit if you use it in the air and there's no free fall, so this can be used for recovery, but otherwise it seems like a weak move.
4% (uncharged) - 10% (fully charged)

Assault Dash

Lucina dashes forward with her sword. The more you charges, the further it goes. At full charge it goes like 2/3rds of Final Destination. It kills at like 90% when fully charged so not a whole lot of knockback.
6% (uncharged) -- 18% (fully charged)

Forward B

Easy Combination

This move resembles Marth's dancing blade in Brawl. It's a dancing blade that can be performed quicker, but can be only done forward, and deals less damage and knockback.
10%

Heavy Combination

It's a "strong" version of the dancing blade. Slower, but much more powerful. Its biggest shortcoming is that it doesn't actually combos into itself, and each hit has a healthy dose of knockback. Lots of damage and knockback (specially on the last hit).
9% (first hit) -- 17% (last hit)

Up B

Crescent Slash

It's a dolphin slash in crescent arc with very low knockback and damage. Can be reversed, landing lag seems the same as Dolphin Slash. Struggles to kill even at 300%.
7%

Dolphin High Jump

Not hitbox, no damage, no knockback, but Lucina goes straight up in the sky, but oh boy she does go high. Can only be used for recovery, I think. With a double jump and Dolphin High Jump you can go offscreen, just to illustrate how high it goes.

Down B

Easy Counter

Same as counter except it last much longer but with very low damage and knockback. Knockback may be fixed or very low in scaling because I couldn't kill with it at 400%.
Variable damage, but I reflected a random Fox tilt and it did 3% lol

Iai (居合) Counter

It's a counter with very few active frames, when it hits, Lucina does a small dash forward and swings upwards. Strangely it doesn't seem more powerful than regular counter, as I couldn't kill Ganon after countering its Wizard Kick at 140%, but I'm not too sure lol.
14% on Ganon's Wizard Kick​
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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@Shaotan Thanks! I guess Marth uses all same customs as she does, right? Anyway, I guess I'll check on these when trying to customize Lucina more to my liking (to be less cloney from Marth)
 

Jilluciphi42

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Up B

Crescent Slash

It's a dolphin slash in crescent arc with very low knockback and damage. Can be reversed, landing lag seems the same as Dolphin Slash. Struggles to kill even at 300%.
7%

Dolphin High Jump

Not hitbox, no damage, no knockback, but Lucina goes straight up in the sky, but oh boy she does go high. Can only be used for recovery, I think. With a double jump and Dolphin High Jump you can go offscreen, just to illustrate how high it goes.
Do you have a picture of the Crescent Slash? Your description of it makes it sound strictly worse than standard Dolphin Slash, what do you think it has going for it, if anything?
 

Shao-tan

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Do you have a picture of the Crescent Slash? Your description of it makes it sound strictly worse than standard Dolphin Slash, what do you think it has going for it, if anything?
That was exacly my impression. I don't think the move has anything going for it over regular Dolphin Slash, except for the bit of extra distance it covers on recovery.

By the way, I think Iai Counter is actually faster than Lucina's regular counters, I'll record a 60fps video tonight and go over it frame by frame to make sure. Don't quote me on that yet, please.
 

LIQUID12A

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Assault Dash​

Lucina dashes forward with her sword. The more you charges, the further it goes. At full charge it goes like 2/3rds of Final Destination. It kills at like 90% when fully charged so not a whole lot of knockback.
6% (uncharged) -- 18% (fully charged)
Iai (居合) Counter

It's a counter with very few active frames, when it hits, Lucina does a small dash forward and swings upwards. Strangely it doesn't seem more powerful than regular counter, as I couldn't kill Ganon after countering its Wizard Kick at 140%, but I'm not too sure lol.
14% on Ganon's Wizard Kick​
I'd like footage of these 2. Assault Dash sounds like an interesting mobility tool.
 

Shao-tan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Brazil
what do you think of the custom moves? they sound interesting...
I think Easy Combination is the most likely to be employed. It deals much less damage than Lucina's regular Dancing Blade (which does 18% fresh), but whiffs much less frequently, specially against light weight characters in high %s. I started doing Dancing Blade with forward, forward, up, up which does seem more consistent vs. the whole cast, but I can see Easy Combination becoming the standard on slot just because it's more consistent. Both moves are pretty good though. Aside from that, Iai Counter is either great or useless depending on what I find out in the next few hours.

I'd like footage of these 2. Assault Dash sounds like an interesting mobility tool.
I'll make sure to cover each move in different situations yeah.

@ Shao-tan Shao-tan Also, does Assault Dash still break shields? Thanks for all the info! :)
To be honest I have no idea because you can't set the cpu to shield on training mode so I can only hope to get a hit on shield when I'm playing vs. CPU. Maybe I can get that done.
 
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