Lucario Matchup Discussion: vs. Peach

[Steam]

Lucario Matchup Discussion: vs. Peach

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Welcome to the Lucario vs. Peach matchup thread/export. As you might have guessed this thread is for discussing the ins and outs of the Lucario vs. Peach matchup and who wins/loses. As always please keep discussion on topic and civil. Refer to this thread for all other matchups.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario beats her hands down.

I play both characters in this game, Peach has he air control but she can't kill unless you make a huge mistake. I stress this a lot. Peach cannot kill you in this game unless you make a large mistake. Her Nair, Fair, Bair, Usmash, Fsmash, UpB, all kill. For the one exception of a read, nair and bair, she cannot land a kill move on us.

Her best throw kill in this game is Uthrow but only at high percents.

Turnips are a pain til we get aura for Aura Sphere and Side B to nail both of those out of the air and his her.

 

[Eeveecario]

I can't really help with this MU. But I'll tell my unfortunate experience while facing Slayer on Anther.

can be the most erratic character in the game. A good player will be moving and approaching so erratically, and reading her will be a mess. Maybe I was too defensive on that game, but she can't be approached with ease. I was eating a lot of attacks, and if I try to rely more on shield, I was grabbed and slapped.

What it really worked for me, was throwing projectiles and keeping her away with FP, and suddenly going into the offensive at "unexpected" times. But she adapted quickly and start reading me...

 

[gagelax]

Lucario beats her hands down.

I play both characters in this game, Peach has he air control but she can't kill unless you make a huge mistake. I stress this a lot. Peach cannot kill you in this game unless you make a large mistake. Her Nair, Fair, Bair, Usmash, Fsmash, UpB, all kill. For the one exception of a read, nair and bair, she cannot land a kill move on us.

Her best throw kill in this game is Uthrow but only at high percents.

Turnips are a pain til we get aura for Aura Sphere and Side B to nail both of those out of the air and his her.

Hi. I noticed this thread while looking through the peach social, and just happened to stop by. It just caught my eye in this post where you said 'Her best kill in this game is Uthrow but only at high percents.' Out of curiosity, why do you think Uthrow is a better kill throw than Bthrow?

 

[RT]

I honestly treat this matchup the same as it was in Brawl. The only big difference is that she can kill easier and Lucario doesn't live as long.

I feel people fear the float more than they should. Brawl taught me not to do that, almost to the point of disrespecting her. Not a good idea in this game, but at the same time, can't be scared of it.

The big main thing to watch out for is Parasol being able to kill. This makes her recovery pretty much Mario's but slightly disjointed.

Neutral matchup imo or 0 if using da scale.

 

[gagelax]

Now, for the MU, I honestly don't think there is something one thing a character can do that completely destroys the other; I believe it is relatively even, it's just about knowing what the other character can do and their options. If anything, lucario may have a slight advantage as his character may be a little better in general due to rage + aura

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hi. I noticed this thread while looking through the peach social, and just happened to stop by. It just caught my eye in this post where you said 'Her best kill in this game is Uthrow but only at high percents.' Out of curiosity, why do you think Uthrow is a better kill throw than Bthrow?

It's what I've done with her.

I haven't killed with Bthrow in this game as much as I have Uthrow but that is just me maybe.

Could be proven wrong and I would happily be told I was.

 

[gagelax]

It's what I've done with her.

I haven't killed with Bthrow in this game as much as I have Uthrow but that is just me maybe.

Could be proven wrong and I would happily be told I was.

Well, I hate to be blunt, but you've been using the wrong throw. Bthrow can kill 130-140 (ledge) and Uthrow kills at about 180-190...

 

[Steam]

From playing dark.pch it seemed like it was probably like a +1 in our favor. we compete decently in the neutral and peach has a really hard time killing. once we're at high aura AS really restricts what peach can do with her floats and a single mistake at that % equals a blue fiery death. I think peach can do things to our upB by floating beneath the ledge but it's really nothing we can't tech or bend around. just be mindful of the booty bounces, bthrow, bair, and sideB can all kill surprisingly early and fair kills stupid early sometimes but is obviously really unsafe... just don't challenge it.

 

[gagelax]

From playing dark.pch it seemed like it was probably like a +1 in our favor. we compete decently in the neutral and peach has a really hard time killing. once we're at high aura AS really restricts what peach can do with her floats and a single mistake at that % equals a blue fiery death. I think peach can do things to our upB by floating beneath the ledge but it's really nothing we can't tech or bend around. just be mindful of the booty bounces, bthrow, bair, and sideB can all kill surprisingly early and fair kills stupid early sometimes but is obviously really unsafe... just don't challenge it.

To clear confusion, when you grab the ledge, there is 1 frame of vulnerability. By floating under the ledge and using nair, you can hit them on that 1 frame, as nair, when not float cancelled, is a long move.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Lucario beats her hands down.

I play both characters in this game, Peach has he air control but she can't kill unless you make a huge mistake. I stress this a lot. Peach cannot kill you in this game unless you make a large mistake. Her Nair, Fair, Bair, Usmash, Fsmash, UpB, all kill. For the one exception of a read, nair and bair, she cannot land a kill move on us.

Her best throw kill in this game is Uthrow but only at high percents.

Turnips are a pain til we get aura for Aura Sphere and Side B to nail both of those out of the air and his her.

You are sadly misinformed. Her backthrow is her best kill option. Also, I can space bairs to land a kill on you to combat with your air attacks. I can rack up damage quickly then you. I can pressure your shield better then you can. Lucario has no answer to Peach pressure. Do not think you can uptilt out of my dair on shield. Cause you cant. You will eat a clean nair for it. Once off the stage you will take alot of damage coming back or you will lose your stock. Peach has alot of frame traps and GOOD ones that can get her the kill in this game. This is not Brawl.

So based on what you said here, lucario does not beat Peach hands down.

From playing dark.pch it seemed like it was probably like a +1 in our favor. we compete decently in the neutral and peach has a really hard time killing. once we're at high aura AS really restricts what peach can do with her floats and a single mistake at that % equals a blue fiery death. I think peach can do things to our upB by floating beneath the ledge but it's really nothing we can't tech or bend around. just be mindful of the booty bounces, bthrow, bair, and sideB can all kill surprisingly early and fair kills stupid early sometimes but is obviously really unsafe... just don't challenge it.

Let me explain something here cause people seem confused here about Peach ending a stock. Peach has a hard time killing if she FORCES the kill. Just wants to rush in and play basic. I don't have to rush for a kill. I for one can get a lead in the match better then you can. After that. I can just chill and play it safe. Peach also has a better neutral than lucario for the sake that I have a projectile I can attack do many things with. You can't do much with your except shoot it. If I am at a range where you can just freely shoot an aura and I have a turnip, I win the neutral war.

The moment Peach starts to rush in on lucario is when you get your stuff for free and Peach just leaves herself open for easy hits. Even when Lucario has the lead, Peach has no problem AT ALL getting close to the dude and starting pressure to open him up and bring it back. And This is what I do to all lucarios I play now. Trying to force a kill is just giving the character the match, when I dont have too AT ALL.

- My pressure is better.
- Many Ways to approach

- Wall you out better.
- Better Movement options.

- Better EdgeGuarding.
- Many situational combos that lead to damage or even a stock.
- Better Neutral Game

Lucario does not beat Peach im this game to me.

 

[deepseadiva]

From playing dark.pch it seemed like it was probably like a +1 in our favor. we compete decently in the neutral and peach has a really hard time killing. once we're at high aura AS really restricts what peach can do with her floats and a single mistake at that % equals a blue fiery death. I think peach can do things to our upB by floating beneath the ledge but it's really nothing we can't tech or bend around. just be mindful of the booty bounces, bthrow, bair, and sideB can all kill surprisingly early and fair kills stupid early sometimes but is obviously really unsafe... just don't challenge it.

Aura Sphere is Lucario's distinct advantage in the matchup. It pesters float, and anytime there's space between the two characters Lucario gets to charge a free kill move. Between two theoretically evenly matched characters, the character that has the charge ball gets to dictate the pace of things better.

Peach isn't weak though. Like most characters Peach doesn't have a kill setup, so killing is "hard" in that it requires forcing your opponent into a mistake. Lucario is one of the rare characters that DOES have a kill setup (live past 100% xD), and because Aura Sphere is this always looming pressure, Peach doesn't have her usual luxury of baiting out mistakes with her normally freeish pressure tools. BUT, she can compete for the kill since IMO she has kill opportunities at just about every angle.

If fair didn't kill in this game I'd call it pointless and never touch this matchup. But it can! But he still has AS which makes it annoying forever, so honestly I'd play a reflector character or something. If only Toad had a reflecting custom version ;_________:

 

[Steam]

Well the thing about lucario is that in theory he's honestly a low/bottom tier character because his options are all slow with bad priority, but he has a million of them so he can work around a lot of stuff. As with basically every other matchup Lucario has to respect all of peach's moves, and at low% turnips and float options cancel or beat out aurasphere. At this point Lucario probably shouldn't be able to touch peach at all, but again, lucario has a million ways to surprise people with movement and his versatile moveset so it's not nearly as bad as say characters like ganon who lack the tools to work around things.

Though one thing I failed to acknowledge before is that as long as peach doesn't respect us at all most of our kill setups won't work. She should never sit in shield and never just sit on the ground where she can get caught up in ASC, peach should zone very actively as most of our kill moves aren't punish moves but more hard read stuff that catches things without hitboxes, you'd actually be surprised how badly you can make lucario struggle by just throwing out hitboxes. But on the other hand it's really easy for lucario to stay alive for days at which point aurasphere and to a lesser extent sideB flame start getting really potent and really really really mess with peach's neutral.

I could honestly see it at as even matchup or maybe even in peach's favor depending on how pessimistic I'm looking at lucario. It's wierd putting ratios on Lucario because of how awful he should be in theory vs. how decent he is in reality. Though in the grand scheme of things peach is definitely one of the easier matchups compared to the others simply because high% aurasphere is highly potent, she can't kill reliably and peach isn't overwhelmingly speedy either.

 

[Tundra]

Hm... This matchup seems to be a bit tricky to determine. Based on my experiences, Peach definitely has the advantage over Lucario when his aura is weak. However, as his aura grows stronger, the matchup leans more and more in Lucario's favor. As a result of her light weight, Peach is easily sent flying by most of his attacks when the aura/rage is strong. I don't know how many times I've been KO'd to a surprise aura sphere and lost the match, despite technically being better than the opponent. As long as I stay focused, zone properly and stay aware of those deadly aura spheres, this matchup shouldn't be too bad. My guess would be it's pretty even, or Peach might have a slight advantage.

 

[Eeveecario]

That complete guide you posted.

That's exactly what I meant about Peach being easily the most erratic character in the rooster. A skilled Peach will try to approach as safe as possible, and her combo potential is flexible and hard. (BTW, your neutral video is great, a excellent way to show her potential).
Now, as a Lucario player, obviously our projectiles are our "safest" tools and possibly our best option to rack up damage. But if we rely too much in the projectiles, we'll get punished by it soon. Our second best tool is our ranged attacks (yeah, bair and smashes have nice ranges), we have to use them wisely and occasional, because we'll get punished if we whiff.

Finally, our best option to this MU is to think out of the box IMO. Improvising, adapting, and moving will be key in this match-ups. This is definitely a dynamic MU. If you start abusing your momentum, or falling behind with the game speed, you'll lose a stock. I have to mention, that if we get stock in a combo, the best option for us is to cooperate and deal with it while trying to escape and maybe counter. If we try to challenge her combos or attacks, we'll have a bad time, racking up unnecessary damage and it might be too late to catch up.

To end this, I see this MU as a dance. Both players can have the lead, but we have to respect each other momentum or else bad things will happen.
It's the Royal Queen vs the Aura Guardian. Show some manners and respect the lady, but make her notice your aura potential and flashy fur.

 

[PeachBooty]

I usually kill with Peach's Back throw at around 100-120%. I know it depends on rage, character weight, blastzones, etc. However, her back throw is by far the most clutch/blunt way I finish most of my close matches. It's saved me so many times in tournaments, it's ridiculous! Along with Bair, when the obvious Fair becomes predictable.

As far as this match-up goes... it's just a really annoying match-up for Peach mostly because of Aura + Rage. I absolutely hated it in the 3DS version, but I've gotten used to it since. Plus, I don't see nearly as many Lucarios as I used too. Overall, I'd say it's pretty even.