Looking for some IC advice.

[JHoLLa]

I play falco singles and jiggly teams but i've recently had some trouble with IC with my falco so I've decided im goin to counter IC with my jiggly from now on. I would appreciate advice on how to take out IC's with jiggz. the whole point is to split them up and combo nana till death since she doesnt DI. i guess I'm looking for stage suggestions and any other techniques that work on experienced IC's.

 

[JHoLLa]

anything helps guys. let me hear some opinions : ).

 

[Dr. Hyde]

fine just b/c you admitted your Falco has trouble.

IC are easy Rest targets, not assuming anything. I play against a friend who is well versed and mains these guys, they can be annoying and if you can't avoid the grabs you're in trouble. But never fear I have tips.

-If grabbed you can be infinite combo'd to 543% and up just giving odd numbers right now. But when he did this he had to land a hit. Just saying if they make that mistake of trying to combo you to insane percents you can still win, I have.

-Pound is a monster in this. its can split and sometimes even open up a rest opp. I prefer to pound and then use Uair or Fair depending on where they land.

-If they wavedash in for a grab and miss rest. No if they are smart they can block but most of the time Nana just goes flying away b/c she sheilds a half sec later.

-Don't pick a stage unless you are comfortable with it, I prefer FD and Kirby's but that's me. FoD and Yoshi story are bad news for me b/c the hammers, when together are almost as deadly as gannon's punches, not warlock but you understand, right?

-Recovery wise I say go after they do the up+B but I think most of that is basic and if they Forward+B you just sin under and Uair but I prefer Dair to Nair and from there turn around Pound to send they up more.

Remeber the laws of Rest, Rest Early or REst after they mis the ledge with Up+B.

That's all for now, post a vid and I can help more.

 

[choknater]

hyde had some good suggestions but i'm not sure how much rest will help you against them. they're small and very fast and you have to get inside very close to rest.

IMO it's better just to space them really well with ic's. around my area ic and jiggly players go pretty even, but King allegedly 3-4 stocks every ic player he meets. his motto for the matchup is "i'm not just gonna sit around and get hit by your c-stick." become a master of jiggly's movement and spacing and make sure all attacks are safe. getting grabbed and combo'd is devastating... but jigglypuff can space and stay in the air well enough so that she can never be grabbed.

that leaves ic's only option to aerials and wd smashes. if king doesn't "sit around" to be hit by them... then the only choices that ic players have is to try to beat her aerials. ic's are grab-based characters... i'm pretty sure jiggly will **** them when it comes to aerial fighting. just watch out for their uair which has some mad priority. ic's dair is also somewhat jigglypuff safe. but ic's aerials have horrible range and accuracy compared to jiggly's, so yeah.

btw this is all coming from an ic player... i'm only decent with jigglypuff but i've seen enough of king and foxroar to know what i'm talking about. hope i helped : )

 

[Ryaneatworld]

Getting Nana out of the way helps alot. When Nana is out make sure to NOT BE GRABBED, being grabbed by the IC's when you are facing a good one is the worst thing that can happen to you. Nana is an easy target for the WoP. IC's like wavedashing and Nana kinda just seems to sit around for a second or two after a wavedash and then I would just pound (away from Popo) and several bairs / fairs until they are dead. then after that Popo should be targeted as any other character. he has semi good reach, lots of power, but in general is sorta slow. Grab to Uair is a good combo starter and go from there.

IMO Rest is a bad attack against IC's.

 

[Dogysamich]

I dont play jiggs, but I do play ICs alot (not my main though), so I think I can give you some helpful, general advice with what to look for vs ICs.


__


If you ever start a match right next to or right under the ics, do NOT start by going to them.

i.e.

on FD, if they're player 1, and you're player 3 (i think it's 3), do NOT go to them. Most IC players will probably desynch blizzard hoping you'll start by running in, leading to an early grab, leading to an early wobble, and leading to their early lead.

Same goes for any 3 platform stage where you they start to a side (Kirby 64, Battlefield, etc).

Just, when you start, dont run at them.

___

Speaking of desynchs, just some general stuff to watch out for.

If you see the ICs

-dodge
-roll
-empty grab
-DD
-SHFF (no attack, just shff)
-Pivot

watch for a desynch. (Those are the main desynch setups).

More specifically, if they're far away and you're showing no notation of running, watch for Ice Blocks (which might lead to Ice Block Chaser)

and if you're sticking em pretty hard, watch for a roll-blizzard.


___


Although ICs obviously dont float, i think their b.air is as long or longer than jiggs, so watch out for that. It comes out pretty quick (kinda like jiggs b.air), and it's probably one of their more frequent moves since they'll keep their backs to you for fast d.smashes.

___

If you ever split them apart, you obviously want to keep racking on damage, but make sure to keep your eye out for the player if you attack the CPU ic. More often then not, if you go for their 2ndary IC, the player will either lurk over you and wait for a free hit (or a grab, if applicable), or they'll rush in headstrong to save the 2ndary IC (which is generally worse for them).

Just be sure to mix up your strategies for keeping them apart. It's not specifically hard, but it goes a long way.

___

 

[Dr. Hyde]

good call Dogy on the IC terms.

I'm gonna defend my rest position. I don't know how well the rest attack is for everyone but its one of my main ways of killing which when people get used to it they learn to go the way I want them to to combo. As for IC Rest is interestingly different than normal.
I'm not saying I know rest well but this is what I have observed.

-a WD IC into a sheild can end up being killed by a rest. Ex. Jiggs comes down from a Bair they WD in and you jump and rest right when they shield Nana will be gone, easy and that's for the lower percents.

-a Dair by IC is simply like a Dair from Marth if not spaced well by them, a free rest. I guess that the MArths here don't L-cancel right or there's too much lag afterwards that I just seem to get a free kill.

-Jiggs WD is not my fav means of transportation but WD away from an aerial and then back and a jump can land a Rest.

-Also like with Yoshi kinda a Dair Lcanceled can go into a Rest. Reason it works with Yoshi is he bends into the hit box unlike every other character. IC if one gets hit they will try and grab and boom. You could probably get both since if it hits and they are on the ground, I haven't gotten this off, there should be enough time to hit Nana before she reacts and also hit Popo

I never could master the ICs I'm trying to just gets some things going with some of my 2ndaries

 

[Jarc]

Don't get Wobble'd.

 

[doyoung2win]

pound to separate!
rest nana as she runs to her boyfriend!
take the one hammer smash since it wont kill you!
wop'ple the boyfriend!

 

[JHoLLa]

ok a few questions. so a rest to kill nana is worth it if it means taking a charges forwards smash.

everyone mentions pounds, if i pound and they shield i get grabbed/wobbled to death so im guessing i dont do random pounds like i would against other characters.

Im mainly a WOP jiggz but i definitely work my rests in. I'm just alot better at air combos then setting up rests. i dont know how well rests are going to work for me since i plan on spending most of my time in the air. most of my rests are for Fair or Nair when people either bounce or try to shield grab me but in this case IC use their light shield which makes them able to grab me before i hit the ground which is the reason i can pillar with falco.

Im goin to try and rest after missed WD Dsmahses as hyde recommened. also try pounding and see how open it leaves me to getting wobbled. hopefully i can get some vids from the next tourny i go to so i can get some needed criticism.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Also this is the easy way aside from the rests.
Pound to separate and, I'm mainly a WoP too, so just separate Nana and the WoP her off since she doesn't DI, then go for Popo and the same thing works just as easily. Also don't let them get them back together after you saparate them but I would try to kill nana unless its with rest early or a later game 30%-40%^ where I would Bair and Fair her off.
Stages- FD and Dreamland 64 are the best IMHO

 

[doyoung2win]

if u dont like rests then

separate them.
fsmash girl trying to run through you.
kick boyfriend away.
kick girl off stage.
hunt down blue polar bears with bairs

 

[JHoLLa]

i dont mind resting, it just doesnt seem like the best way to go. i just need to find the best ways to bait them for a pound or some other move that seperates them. seperation is the key.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I played my friend recently and I have some advice for that, aside from just being careful and spacing a WoP til they are at 40%

If they are expecting an attack float past them or if they are sheilding a good way to wear them down is Shuffl'd Dairs just going past them and after like the second or first they will be trying for an Up Smash. Go for the pound there and then they are split or at least in the air.

That's the safest way I know, also if they miss an Aerial follow it with Fairs, I can get two to three normally which is plenty to get them separated. I prefer just a simple missed grab from them tends to lead to a WD Utilt into a rest or at least four aerials on my part so to each his or her own.

Not saying the IC are easy, they can be if played right but one grab and you are against the fence so be careful and space well and as in any match with Jiggs you will win.

 

[JHoLLa]

thanks man. i appreciate the advice

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Counterpick Pokefloats, and b-air Nana off the level. There you go, not as much of a problem..

 

[JHoLLa]

o my lord emmy, your a genius. a moving stage will probably make it 100x easier to seperate them. thats still only one match though, i need to win 2 : ).

 

[doyoung2win]

rainbow cruise? is that not allowed in singles?
mute city, brinstar depths(my new favorite), etc.

 

[Ryaneatworld]

mute city is goooood.

 

[Kaizer]

rainbow cruise? is that not allowed in singles?
mute city, brinstar depths(my new favorite), etc.

RC is allowed in singles.


But yeah. Counterpicking moving stages, splitting them with WoP, resting, and so on. Don't get grabbed, and don't miss rests (No yay for you, IC Smash =(), play smart and such.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

nother thing, if you are getting tired and want show the person playing IC that you don't feel like dealing with the crap just Dsmash at the right time and not only can you separate them but it is a nasty edge guard move. actully the Fsmash does about the same too and can KO @ around 80% so yeah can't believe I forgot those but I tend to stay away from the ground with these little people.

 

[Sliq]

Basically just keep spacing yourself until you hit Nana, and then just WoP her to death. More than likely the Popo will try to save her, depending on the situation, so you just have to keep him busy as she plummets to her death.

You don't want to be on the ground a lot, and you don't want to be in the air a lot either. On the ground you'll get grabbed, and in the air you'll get up or forward smashed. Mix it up, space yourself, and avoid becoming predictable. Use platforms to your advantage.

If you have an opportunity to rest Nana without being high enough damage yourself to ge KO'd, do it. Sure you'll take some damage, but your battle just got a lot easier.