Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Izaw]

It's not only character with Up b, Sheik can for example do Side B, and it will drop a bomb next to Link, next time he jabs he just picks up the bomb instead..

I want this to be patched out though, the sooner the better...

 

[Zane the pure]

Actually the combo counter doesn't go up, which in theory means they can escape it, but apparently most can't.

I'll record it later tonight, but when I'm doing it (using the method Reflex described) the combo counter does go up consecutively.
So pending that video I'll concede till my proof is shown good sir

It's not only character with Up b, Sheik can for example do Side B, and it will drop a bomb next to Link, next time he jabs he just picks up the bomb instead

This is also another situation in which said Link can cancel into shield and pick the appropriate punish from there.

 

[Elessar]

I want this to be patched out though, the sooner the better...

I agree with this entirely. It's broken and it diminishes not only the game but the character to use an clearly broken exploit and then call it an "AT".

I'll record it later tonight, but when I'm doing it (using the method Reflex described) the combo counter does go up consecutively.
So pending that video I'll concede till my proof is shown good sir

At least in this video the counter doesn't go up.

 

[Zelkam]

Actually the combo counter doesn't go up, which in theory means they can escape it, but apparently most can't.

My theory is that the combo counter only considers combos to be when you hit an opponent that's in hitstun. With the Jab Cancel Lock thing, however, the opponent hits the ground therefore canceling the hitstun and the game not considering it a "combo", but when they hit the ground they get the landing lag which allows for the guaranteed next hit.

But hey, its just a theory

 

[mackman]

I agree with this entirely. It's broken and it diminishes not only the game but the character to use an clearly broken exploit and then call it an "AT".

Agree with your agreement. Infinites have no place in this game. Smash is supposed to be about dynamic combos and thinking on your feet: Not finding a way to just hold your opponent in place and hit them in the face (as appealing as that is with certain characters...).

 

[Lawz.]

It's not only character with Up b, Sheik can for example do Side B, and it will drop a bomb next to Link, next time he jabs he just picks up the bomb instead..

I want this to be patched out though, the sooner the better...

So you've known about this for a while now, yet didn't say anything?

Hmm...so if you knew about this for a while, why not expose it sooner so it can be patched? I'm not understanding the logic here.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Are you sure you can't hold Down-Back and just tap A, for those of you who like Smash C-Stick too much? Link doesn't have a crawl, after all. It might work in much the same way as long as you don't miss the timing.

I'm pretty sure. As I said earlier, for some reason the method of holding diagonally backwards and down doesn't works as well because you have to wait till Link has crouched again before inputting the next Jab (otherwise you'll get a F-tilt backwards) which wastes precious frames. You can Jab cancel faster with the manual crouching method or the 'crouch + diagonal A-stick' method. (At least this is what I was seeing yesterday.)

I've known this for quite a while now :/ I'm sure it'll be fixed in a patch as well, I'm sure all infinites are not meant to be in game.

Also characters with fast up B, like MK, Marth, Mario etc. can easily Up B out of this..

Something tells me that you didn't know about this 'for quite a while now' as you don't know what you're talking about. Marth and Mario can escape it no trouble with a simple double jump as I pointed out earlier, but MK with his Up-B and Sheik with her side-B (that you seem to think will help in this situation) cannot use them to escape until they are on a high enough percent. This is because of the way the tech actually works. The characters that it works on are in hitstun right up until they land, at which point they go through landing lag, and then before they can even shield, they get re-Jabbed. There is no point in this whole sequence in which they could use their Up-B or side-B. If they could, that would be because the Link messed up and they would have been better off simply shielding anyway. Eventually of course, they will be Jabbed high enough so that they exit hitstun before they land, at which point these moves will be one option they can take to escape. With staling however, this may not be for a while.

Actually the combo counter doesn't go up, which in theory means they can escape it, but apparently most can't.

I'm just confirming Zelkam's thoughts on this. The combo counter is in fact flawed in that it only registers as a combo moves that hit the opponent before they leave hitstun and it doesn't factor in things like landing lag.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I'm hoping they patch this too, but as long as folks aren't really using it, no harm, no foul? I'm just afraid that Link's actual jab will be nerfed instead in order to "patch" this =(.

 

[Elessar]

I'm just confirming Zelkam's thoughts on this. The combo counter is in fact flawed in that it only registers as a combo moves that hit the opponent before they leave hitstun and it doesn't factor in things like landing lag.

How unsurprising that the combo counter doesn't work. Brilliant work by Sakurai once again.

 

[Jester Kirby]

Now I'll put all the interesting characters that this actually works on below with their starting percents. Note that the percents given are assuming that Link is frame perfect so you may want to add on like 10 to 20%.
-Bowser: Works from 0%
-Diddy: Works from 40%
-Sheik: Works from 64%
-Ganon: Works from 5%
-ZSS: Works from 47%
-Palutena: Works from 11%
-MK: Works from 28%
-Fox: Works from 62%
-Falco: Works from 62%
-Charizard: Works from 2%
-Greninja: Works from 67%
-C Falcon: Works from 58%
-Mega Man: Works from 27%
-Brawler: Works from 11%

Are these the only characters that the jab lock works on? or just ones that have been tested?

 

[FSK]

So you've known about this for a while now, yet didn't say anything?

Hmm...so if you knew about this for a while, why not expose it sooner so it can be patched? I'm not understanding the logic here.

Me and blubba(blubba who initally found it) atleast knew about this since like the first day after the release of the 3DS version. But after some testing we kinda left it to focus on other things. If you dare to go far enough back on the skype chat you'll find us talking about it. I think the reason we stopped experimenting with it was 3DS controls, that the buffered ftilts appeared and we didn't know that the jab kept the opponents in the center so it didn't have to be frame perfect.

Do we win? :$ (its even mentioned in blubbas Link guide in the jab section)

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I tested all the characters. Everyone else can escape (usually just DJ) at 0% so it doesn't work on them at all.
Reading.

 

[Zane the pure]

In the interest of not posting a video for it since I'm lazy, the reason the combo counter goes up when I'm doing the the lock is because they do not hit the ground while I'm doing it. Forgot to expound upon that before I left for class.

 

[Lawz.]

Me and blubba(blubba who initally found it) atleast knew about this since like the first day after the release of the 3DS version. But after some testing we kinda left it to focus on other things. If you dare to go far enough back on the skype chat you'll find us talking about it. I think the reason we stopped experimenting with it was 3DS controls, that the buffered ftilts appeared and we didn't know that the jab kept the opponents in the center so it didn't have to be frame perfect.

Do we win? :$ (its even mentioned in blubbas Link guide in the jab section)

The only thing I see is that it can be used to cancel into other moves at higher percents, such as jab 1 + 2 > dsmash. I see no reference to a jab cancel infinite on Blubba's guide.

 

[FGC-Oni]

This video was just posted in the xat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmtA1VCHWY
Check it out. We need to test the **** out of this. First of all, is it legit? Does DI affect it? Then what percentage does it work on for the whole cast? What moves can we finish it with? Get testing. Get to work.

I just went into training mode on 3DS and practiced this. I now have the biggest smile on my face.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I would like to be that one guy who openly confesses to have not known about this before I saw the video XD.

 

[Zelkam]

I tested all the characters. Everyone else can escape (usually just DJ) at 0% so it doesn't work on them at all.
Reading.

Could it be possible that it would work on those characters if they had a higher percent when you started? Higher percent means more hitstun, right?

 

[Lawz.]

I see a lot of accounts viewing this thread, be prepared for people to bandwagon Link on a technique that will probably be either patched or banned...

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Could it be possible that it would work on those characters if they had a higher percent when you started? Higher percent means more hitstun, right?

I'm... not sure. I'm trying it on Bowser Jr at 80%, and he can't DJ.
I mean obviously this would mean we'd get a few characters back, but they would have been borderline cases imo; characters that have decent fall speeds for example, but I think you're right. I'll look into this. We should be able to add more characters to the list that this works on.

Brb with an updated list. I'm going test all the characters that I had previously written off as being able to escape just because they could DJ out at 0%.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I'm... not sure. I'm trying it on Bowser Jr at 80%, and he can't DJ.
I mean obviously this would mean we'd get a few characters back, but they would have been borderline cases imo; characters that have decent fall speeds for example, but I think you're right. I'll look into this. We should be able to add more characters to the list that this works on.

Brb with an updated list. I'm going test all the characters that I had previously written off as being able to escape just because they could DJ out at 0%.

I'm pretty sure I was able to get it working on Marth even doing it manually (without A stick, etc.) for example. I didn't have the most precise approach, but I had an attacking.umping/running lvl 8 CPU in training and I tried pulling this off on them.

 

[Knife8193]

So, couldn't you just hold down (fast fall) and shield to end this combo? Can anyone being exposed to the combo test this out? I've heard this works to break out.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

No you can't just hold down and shield. I already tested that with Diddy in one of my earlier posts.

This new list of characters that it works on. I can promise nothing less than total chaos.

 

[Rokuro777]

I'm reluctant to scroll through the 11 pages to see if this has been talked about, but what is your guys' opinion on the tactic of Neutral Throwing in air while having a bomb out?

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but it seems like it could and does catch opponents by surprise having a bomb drop on their face, little nice way to cross them up in a way.

Bomb> Short hop > overhead the opponent > Neutral Throw > land, option select

seems like a good pressure tactic to me, does anyone have any footage of this being pulled off?



also... any lead ins for the new "infinite"? Seems like instead of spamming jabs when pressured you could just down > jab mash?

 

[Real Smooth-Like]

It's not only character with Up b, Sheik can for example do Side B, and it will drop a bomb next to Link, next time he jabs he just picks up the bomb instead..

I want this to be patched out though, the sooner the better...

If this gets patched out doesn't that mean we'll lose our jab to d smash or other? I'm not fond it either, but id freaking cry if we lost jab to other...

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

What have we done?

[You can see the Jab tech here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmtA1VCHWY ]

I should note before I go on. There have been two proposed ways to make Jab cancelling easier. The first is to hold diagonally backwards which allows you to Jab while crouching, and the other is to hold down with the joystick and hit diagonally down with the A-stick. Of these two methods, only the latter actually helps. If you use the diagonally down and backwards joystick method, you have to wait till Link has crouched all the way back down again before you are able to jab, otherwise a F-tilt backwards will come out. If you use the a-stick method, you can re-Jab on the very frame that Link changes to his 'I'm about to crouch' animation.

The following lists all the characters that it works on (and mentions the ones that it doesn't work on and why) and the percent they have to be on such that they cannot shield, DJ, airdodge or use any special move that would get them out before they get hit by the next Jab. Note that some of the more floaty characters will get out of this after like 2 to 6 hits naturally due to being hit up too high, at which point the optimal thing for Link to do would be to e.g. U-tilt or U-smash to get some more damage. The starting percents were tested in training mode so there's no staling and Link is performing the Jabs perfectly.

I've added estimates as to how many times Jab will connect to give you an idea of how each character is affected. The estimates are by far the least accurate thing in this post. They are based off how many Jabs I got on a lvl 9 cpu outside of training mode so that staling would be in effect. Cpus do not know exactly what they should be doing to escape, but they do at least tend to have frame perfect responses from time to time. I kept this in mind when giving my estimates. I do not claim that they are accurate, but I do claim that they will give some idea of how some characters will fare compared to others. Most importantly, it will tell my fellow Link mains at what point they should be expecting to have to finish the Jabs with e.g. an U-tilt to get the most damage they can, and it will also tell them what matchups they should definitely be using it in.


The only characters this tech does not (realistically) work on beyond two hits (meaning that in many cases you can still use this tech to convert a Jab into an U-tilt for extra damage) are:

-Jiggs: Escapes immediately due to sheer floatiness.

-Greninja: Shadow Sneak can be used during hitstun to escape.

-Samus: Samus begins to work from 71% but you can use Down-B to get out after the second hit.

-Peach: Works from 66%. If Peach is holding a turnip it works from 86%. The turnip can be z-dropped on hit, and if Peach is close enough to Link, it will bop him in the head. Even so, Peach is very floaty so you're looking at 2 Jabs only.

-Rosalina: Works from 62% but due to sheer floatiness you'll only get two Jabs.

-Yoshi: Works from 93%. Around 4 Jabs. However, realistically you'd need to start this at around 120% otherwise the DJ will just get Yoshi out, and at that point you're only going to get 2 Jabs.

-DHD: Works from 87% due to the Can getting him out before then against a frame perfect Link, and at this point it's still too risky to have the can come out not to mention that you'll only get two Jabs for your trouble.

-Marth: Works from 86%. Up-B will get you out until then against a frame perfect Link. By this stage it becomes a bit redundant. There is always the threat of the Up-B hitting Link if the player messes up, and Marth is a pretty floaty character so Link won't be getting any more than 2 Jabs at this percent.

-Lucina: See Marth.

-Pikachu: Works from 62%. Around 15 Jabs, however, at this stage I don't believe it is realistically possible to do this on Pika because of Thunder which can be activated almost immediately and will continue to come down well after Pika has been Jabbed again. The Thunder will hit Link if Pika is at about half way or closer in the Jab.

-Sonic: Works from 68%. Around 6 Jabs. Realistically though you'd have to start it around 50% higher though because of Spring, and even then you're only going to get around 2 Jabs.

-Pac-Man: Works from 68%. If Pac-Man is holding a item (I just looked at cherries) it works from 89%. Pac-Man can z-drop the item on hit and the cherry, for example, will clash with Link's sword allowing you just enough time to double jump and airdodge to escape the next hit. Around 3 to 4 Jabs. However, realistically, Pac-Man's Up-B will help him to escape until he's at around 130%, and by that stage you'll only be getting 2 Jabs anyway.

Note that the above list of characters is not necessarily exhaustive. I'm continuing to test characters in more realistic environments and more may be added as well as the reason why.


The following are the characters that it works on beyond 2 Jabs.

-Mario: Works from 69%. Around 7 Jabs.

-Luigi: Works from 68%. Around 3 Jabs.

-Bowser: Works from 0%. Realistically, Link is going to want to start this at 30 to 35% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around like 55 Jabs? "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-Bowser Jr: Works from 65%. Around 5 to 6 Jabs.

-Wario: Works from 72%. Around 50 Jabs? "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-DK: Works from 77%. (Up-B comes out but gets Jabbed) Around 26 Jabs?

-Diddy: Works from 40%. If Diddy is holding a banana, there is a small window of potential opportunity between 78% and 87% in which you can z-drop the banana on hit (from 88% onwards you cannot z-drop the banana; please keep in mind that these percents are tested and found on fresh Jabs). Link will clash with the banana which may throw off the player's timing, but a perfect Link can still jab you again before you can do anything to avoid it. This is all of course assuming that you are still holding the banana by this stage and that you haven't been forced to drop it. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 20 to 30% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 65 jabs? "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-GnW: Works from 61%. Around 3 Jabs only as Up-B will get GnW out beyond that. GnW may possibly belong in the above list of characters.

-Mac: Works from 64%. (KO punch won't help. You'll just lose it if you use it.) Around 4 to 6 Jabs.

-Link: Works from 71%. Around 27 Jabs.

-Zelda: Works from 64%. Around 3 Jabs.

-Sheik: Works from 64%. By the time Sheik is hit off the ground for long enough, you're on kill percents and the hitstun is way too much so no z-dropping grenades for you. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 25 to 35% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 45 Jabs? "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-Ganon: Works from 5%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 35 to 45% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around like 100 Jabs? Naturally.

-Toon: Works from 67%. Around 3 Jabs.

-ZSS: Works from 47%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 20 to 30% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 77 jabs? "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-Pit: Works from 68%. Around 3 Jabs.

-Palutena: Works from 11% (unless Palutena is in Lightweight mode). Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 25 to 35% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 40 Jabs. If Palutena has used Lightweight, it works from 46% and you're looking at around 6 to 7 Jabs unless Lightweight runs out during the Jabs, in which case it would revert back to the above.

-Ike: Works from 72%. Around 50 Jabs. "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-Robin: Works from 68%. If Robin is holding the Leffen sword (or one of the books) it works from 89%. The item can be z-dropped on hit to make Link clash with it, at which point you have enough time to double jump and even catch the item for style points before Link can recover and Jab you. Otherwise it will just hit Link if you are close. Around 27 Jabs.

-Kirby: Works from 59%. Around 3 Jabs.

-DDD: Works from 76%. Around 75 Jabs. "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-MK: Works from 28%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 20 to 30% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 60 to 65 Jabs. "Don't stop 'til you get enough."

-Fox: Works from 62%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 35 to 45% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 100 Jabs (half of which are absolutely pointless by that stage).

-Falco: Works from 62%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 35 to 45% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 90 Jabs (half of which are absolutely pointless by that stage).

-Charizard: Works from 2%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 35 to 45% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 65 Jabs. "Don't stop 'til you get enough." If however the Charizard has the custom down-special Rock Hurl, they can get out at around 69% [and it will continue to help them get out until around 145%], so make sure you finish your combo before then.

-Lucario: Works from 69%. Around 10 Jabs.

-ROB: Works from 72%. If Rob is holding Gyro it works from 94%. The gyro can be Z-dropped on hit which makes Link clash with the gyro, allowing you just enough time to double jump, which can help to escape. The DJ will be Jabbed before you can airdodge but you will be put up higher. Around 20 to 25 Jabs.

-Ness: Works from 67%. 3 to 4 Jabs.

-C Falcon: Works from 58%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 30 to 40% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around like 125 Jabs? (most of which are absolutely pointless by that stage).

-Villager: Works from 68%. If Villager is holding a chunk of wood it works from 90%. Villager can z-drop the piece of wood making Link clash with it, allowing Villager the chance to double jump. A perfect Link will still be able to Jab you before you can airdodge, but even if that happens the very next Jab will miss because the DJ will bring you up higher allowing you to Up-B out. Around 3 to 4 Jabs.

-Olimar: Works from 62%. Around 3 Jabs.

-WFT: Works from 68%. Around 9 Jabs.

-Shulk Default and Speed: Works from 70%. (You can't DJ) Around 25 Jabs.
-Shulk Jump: Works from 12%. (You land before you can DJ and then can't Shield in time) Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 35 to 45% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 35 Jabs unless monado jump runs out.
-Shulk Shield: Works from 68%. (You land before you can DJ and then can't Shield in time) Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 35 to 45% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Link will be Jabbing until the shield monado goes away, so it depends on how long after you've activated shield that you get Jabbed.
-Shulk Buster: Works from 48%. (You can't DJ) Around 10 to 15 Jabs.
-Shulk Smash: Works from 34%. (You can't DJ) Around 10 to 15 Jabs.

-Dr Mario: Works from 69%. Around 7 Jabs.

-Dark Pit: Works from 68%. Around 3 Jabs.

-Mega Man: Works from 27%. By the time Mega Man is hit off the ground high enough, the hitstun is too strong. No z-dropping blades for you. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 30 to 40% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 60 Jabs. "Don't stop 'til you get enough." Do not slacken the pace however otherwise Mega Man's Up-special will get him out. It is realistically possible to stop this from happening, but you must be good with this tech.

-Gunner: Works from 70%. Around 15 Jabs.

-Sword: Works from 70%. Around 30 Jabs.

-Brawler: Works from 11%. Realistically Link will want to start the Jabs like 30 to 40% higher unless you're super good with the timing because you'll probably just get a Jab shielded. Around 65 Jabs. "Don't stop 'til you get enough."


I'm so sorry.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Btw, what exactly did I do here in the air? I kind of weaved back and forth while throwing a boomerang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAabQ3lUCN0&feature=youtu.be

 

[PKBeam]

you wavebounced a rang

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've just been playing around with this Jab thing (before now I've just been testing). And holy crap is this legit.

I recommend that everyone change to A-stick if you don't have it already, then get used to finding that angle on the a-stick immediately so you can do the crouch with joystick diagonally down with a-stick method. Note that it works for either diagonally-down no matter which way you face, so for the sake of muscle memory, pick a side. Obviously you're going to want to get used to the timing, but I'd also recommend getting used to turning around in your crouch in between Jabs so you can react quickly to rolls and such. You need to quickly quarter circle backwards then quarter circle back down (actually there's a bunch of easy ways to do it), and you shouldn't fall behind the timing of the Jabs if you do it right.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

(In reference to the jab/crouch combo)

As a Link main, I'm both sad and happy to see this. On one hand, you can give cheap characters a taste of their own medicine, but on the other, this a new wobbling.

 

[kxiong92]

So once a character reaches the percent for the jab cancel to work, they won't be able to get out of it no matter the how high their percent?

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Even better, you can use this to get extra jabs in at early percentages, which can still combo, ya know.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So once a character reaches the percent for the jab cancel to work, they won't be able to get out of it no matter the how high their percent?

No. There's a limit, and that depends a lot on the character as well as a few other things. Some characters will get out only after a few if they are very floaty, while others will be stuck till they are at death percent and even beyond. All the percentage means is that there's nothing that a perfect opponent can do to escape if a perfect Link does a Jab cancel Jab at that percent. Any lower and a perfect opponent can act which in many cases will get them out but won't necessarily, i.e. they may DJ but it could probably be Jabbed and they wouldn't have time to airdodge, which would certainly push them up higher to get them out sooner, or in other character's cases they will simply be able to shield or Up-B invincibility through it at any lower percents, but yeah, it's complicated. So you will actually find that it may very well work for you below the percents specified. Not to mention that the rage effect could greatly affect the starting percents in the next stock, meaning you'd be able to start earlier presumably. It's early days. We still don't know what kill options are guaranteed, but I'm done with testing for now. I just want to play around with this some more.

 

[Dan Salvato]

No. There's a limit, and that depends a lot on the character as well as a few other things. Some characters will get out only after a few if they are very floaty, while others will be stuck till they are at death percent and even beyond.

As I just mentioned in the other thread, it would be a much more useful table to list either how many jabs Link can get in, or the upper limit of the damage range before the character can begin to escape. I think it's misleading to include Diddy and Rosalina, for instance, in the same table with no information that distinguishes how well it works against each of them (Rosalina can escape almost immediately while Diddy gets locked for at least 60 percent).

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I already answered you in the other thread. And I'll add here that it is early days. Did you seriously expect a starting and finish percent for every character with all things considered? Rage, staling, not to mention how difficult it would be to get accurate results outside of training mode. People know that their character is by comparison 'floaty' and I specifically mentioned that floaty characters will naturally get out early. If the player is unaware that their character is considered floaty by comparison, then that's their problem.

 

[Rizen]

I can already hear the top tier and CG character players from Brawl crying about how this is OP and needs to be banned/patched.

I find it easier to jab>crouch>jab>crouch>jab>crouch... rather than 'A' stick.

As a general guideline, 67% is where most characters start to get locked, since jab 1 does 2% damage. The best finisher is Utilt, starting frame 8 and has enough power to KO.

 

[ConCeal12]

Ugh for them to have to patch this out jab cancel options will be out indefinitely. No more jab cancel Dsmash or jab cancel grabs. This discovery may just nerf him rather than help him D:

 

[Zelkam]

You know what? I think I want jab locking to get patched out. Ever since it was discovered we've gotten a plethora of try hards looking for the easy win.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing I would love more than for Link to be viable and for there to be more people to love him the way we do. However, if that viability comes at the cost of Link's name being dragged through the mud and becoming a community joke like little mac or diddy kong then no thank you. Link mains are proud and hard working and I won't have that tarnished for the sake of tier placement.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Dudes, so I've been using the soft throw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLCgbazuGs a whole bunch ever since I switched to the a-stick, and I just have to talk about it. Not just the fact that it's insanely good, but I wanted to make sure everyone knows how it works and also all of the different ways that it can be done. The vid linked above, while informative and amazing, is slightly off.

First of all, to clarify, the reason why the soft throw works has nothing to do with the slide back in the opposite direction making the throw somehow have less momentum or something. The only difference is in the arch that the Bomb travels when soft thrown forwards as opposed to being soft thrown backwards. When soft thrown forwards, the bomb has a slightly higher arch while when it is soft thrown backwards it is a flatter throw. To see proof of this, go to the stage Jungle Hijinxs, stand over to the right of the main stage, use the a-stick (or just the a button) to throw a bomb forwards towards the leafy platform on the right and it will land on the platform. Now turn around, and use the a-stick to throw a Bomb backwards towards that same platform and it will not land on it.

Because this tech has nothing to do with momentum going backwards, this means three things. The first is that, as alluded to above, you can just use the a-stick from a standing position and throw the bomb backwards and it will land on the ground. The second is that if you want you can do the input for the backwards JC throw instantly, such that it doesn't even look like you moved when in fact you turned around twice very quickly, and it will still work. Furthermore, it means that you can run or dash forwards, hit backwards, and then interrupt the beginning frames of your turn around animation with a JC throw back in the same direction and you'll still get the soft throw effect. If you already knew this, very good, I didn't until just then.

Now for the rant about how good this tech is. The soft throw means that you have an active hitbox out for much longer. While it is bouncing on the ground, it will explode on impact and pop up on shield, and obviously a moment later it will explode of its own accord. Having as many active hitboxes out for as long as possible at any one time is absolutely essential for overwhelming pressure spam. If your opponent is afraid to move or drop their shield, that's good. I like to think of these Bomb mines as being similar to Snakes Nades. Sure, Snakes nades had a larger hitbox and they did more damage and they could be grenade stripped, but Link's soft throw has an active hitbox that will explode on contact when thrown out and Link has a plethora of other tools to keep the pressure on. The zoning and pressure and stage control potential for this tech is actually ridiculous, and by gosh I just had to say something about it. I hope you didn't mind even if this was all old news to you.

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

>Ganon works at 5%

Maybe they knew all this time and made it canon that the master sword ruins ganondorf.

 

[KenMeister]

What have we done?

The following list includes the new characters that it works on and the percent they have to be on such that they cannot DJ or airdodge or use any special move that would get them out before they get hit by the next Jab purely due to hitstun. Note that some of the more floaty characters will get out of this after like 5 hits naturally due to being hit up too high. As always, this is tested in training mode so there's no staling (which will only help to keep characters from getting hit too high) and Link is on the same percent and is performing the Jabs perfectly.

The only characters this tech does not work on beyond two hits are Jiggs and Samus (Samus begins to work from 71% but you can use Down-B to get out after the second hit).

-Mario: Works from 69%.
-Luigi: Works from 68%.
-Peach: Works from 66%.
-Bowser: Works from 0%
-Yoshi: Works from 93%.
-Rosalina: Works from 62%.
-Bowser Jr: Works from 65%.
-Wario: Works from 72%.
-DK: Works from 77%. (Up-B comes out but gets Jabbed)
-Diddy: Works from 40%
-GnW: Works from 61%. (Up-B doesn't come out in time)
-Mac: Works from 64%. (KO punch won't help. You'll just lose it if you use it.)
-Link: Works from 71%.
-Zelda: Works from 64%.
-Sheik: Works from 64%
-Ganon: Works from 5%
-Toon: Works from 67%.
-ZSS: Works from 47%
-Pit: Works from 68%.
-Palutena: Works from 11%
-Marth: Works from 86%. (Up-B will get you out until then)
-Ike: Works from 72%.
-Robin: Works from 68%.
-DHD: Works from 66%.
-Kirby: Works from 59%.
-DDD: Works from 76%.
-MK: Works from 28%
-Fox: Works from 62%
-Falco: Works from 62%
-Pikachu: Works from 62%.
-Charizard: Works from 2%
-Lucario: Works from 69%.
-Greninja: Works from 67%
-ROB: Works from 72%.
-Ness: Works from 67%.
-C Falcon: Works from 58%
-Villager: Works from 68%.
-Olimar: Works from 62%.
-WFT: Works from 68%.
-Shulk: Works from 70%.
-Dr Mario: Works from 69%.
-Dark Pit: Works from 68%.
-Lucina: Works from 86%. (Up-B will get you out until then)
-Pac-Man: Works from 68%.
-Mega Man: Works from 27%
-Sonic: Works from 68%. (Up-B doesn't help for some reason.)
-Gunner: Works from 70%.
-Sword: Works from 70%.
-Brawler: Works from 11%


I'm so sorry.

Ouch. Looks like the heavies have found their worst matchup. =/