Link Jab Cancel Death Combo

[ATH_]

The video says it all. Thoughts?

 

[PacBeast]

Wow, that's crazy. I might want to try that on my friend later. And we're probably gonna be seeing that in a lot of 1 on 1 matches.

 

[Wilyen]

wtf. that is some sick tech. but it would suck to get caught in that.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Interesting! Even more interesting is that something as big as this wasn't found before

Also, jab cancels are easier to do by holding the analogue stick in an "3 ticks past 8" position (assuming you're facing right). You're crouching, but the position of the stick lets you jab rather than DTilt or turnaround FTilt. No need to repeatedly hit down to crouch and risk a DSmash/DTilt.

 

[Wilyen]

Interesting! Even more interesting is that something as big as this wasn't found before

Also, jab cancels are easier to do by holding the analogue stick in an "3 ticks past 8" position (assuming you're facing right). You're crouching, but the position of the stick lets you jab rather than DTilt or turnaround FTilt. No need to repeatedly hit down to crouch and risk a DSmash/DTilt.

well the game is only 3 months old. so there bound to be more stuff to be found.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Yeah I actually figured this out myself back on the 3DS version. Keep this in mind as well; There is a certain angle that you can hold down on the control stick that let's you jab out of crouch, so that you can jab cancel without the need to keep moving it up and down. This sweetspot is somewhere between and .

 

[Asdioh]

On the one hand this is pretty cool since it's Link, on the other hand this is very broken! I haven't tried it yet but jab cancels are pretty easy, even timing this precise should be easy with a little practice.
I just have to wonder why Link mains haven't found and abused already? Fox has been doing something similar since the 3DS version was very new ._.

 

[Rojo Espada]

Oh mama. I need to get on my game when I can to try this out.

Link is OP now.
Plz don't nerf.

 

[Hitzel]

Is there video footage of this being used at apex? How many characters have you tried this with?

 

[Neoleo21]

This...kinda stinks, hopefully its just a link thing, otherwise you just found the cheesiest damage combos since Brawl Chain grabs.

 

[DarkDeity15]

On the one hand this is pretty cool since it's Link, on the other hand this is very broken! I haven't tried it yet but jab cancels are pretty easy, even timing this precise should be easy with a little practice.
I just have to wonder why Link mains haven't found and abused already? Fox has been doing something similar since the 3DS version was very new ._.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Landing this is fairly situational and the opponent needs to be at high % in order for it to be a true combo. Plus, Link could really use something like this.

This...kinda stinks, hopefully its just a link thing, otherwise you just found the cheesiest damage combos since Brawl Chain grabs.

It is just a Link thing, actually. No other character is quite as capable of this.

 

[san.]

I'm guessing it's escapable at high rage? Back during the 3DS days, I thought the common consensus was that people could escape it.

 

[zeldasmash]

Wooah. Link just found an OP attribute! *Zelda treasure chimes*

 

[Luigisama]

Do it in actual gameplay not in training mode where moves don't stale.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

...staling actually helps this though. And besides, in the video the player says that they used this in a match and against human players to see if it's inescapable.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

I think what was explained that the reason this works well is because that first hit of the Jab combo drags people in closer, so higher%'s don't matter. The only limit is how fast opponents fall. Floaty characters like Rosalina or Jigglypuff could probably easily escape this. But for fast-fallers, they'll get caught in it.

 

[Gidy]

time to pick link back up

 

[HeroMystic]

It is just a Link thing, actually. No other character is quite as capable of this.

Falco may have something similar.

Courtesy of @Ffamran

 

[Neoleo21]

Falco may have something similar.

ooooh, *goes to evil secret Lair*

Can't wait to try if this is actually possible, but it doesn't look quite as ridiculous like this one does, but a good way for Falco to use that useless jab of his for some interesting set ups.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Since I already use Link as a secondary, I think I should be grateful for this, but....
I just hope this doesn't end up making him too good. I'm fine using high tier characters, but I just kind of don't wanna end up being the Melee Fox or the current Diddy Kong, you know? I hate looking like a skrub who thinks he's all that just because he has a good character. But eh, I guess that's a trivial matter. I'm not going to give up Link even if in some crazy turn of events he becomes the new Brawl Meta Knight.

Well, I may as well go learn this tech myself.

 

[Masonomace]

This is educational. Time to go find out if Shield Shulk can avoid this . Bbl

 

[Chiroz]

What if you DI into the hit and towards the ground, can you not shield it like certain other jabs?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I'm curious if there are characters with armor frames or invulnerability frames that can escape in the frames allotted, or are they stunned straight until they hit the ground? EX - ZSS's down B. Does she have enough time to do that?

 

[Charey]

It's a bit early (I haven't got a human opponent to test it with yet) but it looks like Charizard can do a variant of this by cancelling the second jab. The first jab pulls the foe in so they don't get knocked out of the combo and the second one does the push/pop-up which causes the landing frame.

 

[Katakiri]

Don't get jabbed.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Can I say it's a little silly how people are worried that this might make Link and other potential characters too good? It's really silly.

 

[ATH_]

Disclaimer: I am not the person in this video. This is Dan Salvato, a person very involved in Melee in particular. Thank him for finding this ^^

Honestly I personally think this will help Link become the new Wobbler. Or rather, Link will be doing...Rolling. Okay that was bad but think of it! ;P

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Falco may have something similar.

Courtesy of @Ffamran

This was patched out with all the aerials that could do this.

I think Shaya confirmed it was. Pot, Dark Pit and sheik had this as well and it was removed.

Edit: nvm saw the end, might be possible others have this. If so oh my.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I made a post in the Link metagame thread listing all the characters it works on and their starting percents plus a few other interesting bits. Check it out. http://smashboards.com/threads/link...-techniques-here.379659/page-10#post-18506176

 

[Real Smooth-Like]

I've mained link even when he was 2nd to lowest in brawl so I'm always excited to hear when he gets some new toys but this... Looks hella boring. I don't think it'll have that big of an impact on his metagame. The most it'll do will get some people hyped for link again cause he has some easy mode bull crap to abuse which might advance his meta if a lot of people start picking him up. But just imagine link vs bowser where all link does is jab 1 the entire game until kill percents... I know people sometimes say all link does is spam, but this is just too coincidental.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I think what should be noted here is the fact that it works on a lot of top tier rush down characters that Link tends to have trouble with due to their ability to break his strong zoning game. In theory at least, having this tech should seriously affect his tournament viability. But we'll see.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Let's not forget that Link has an incredibly short skid animation as well, meaning you can do a jab almost immediately after you finish a full dash. That'll theoretically make getting this combo in much easier.

 

[FullMoon]

I don't think this kind of exploit is going to make Sm4sh's reputation any better, it's pretty much Brawl's chaingrabs. This is just going to give even more fuel to Melee players to bash Sm4sh.

I just hope Link is the only one who can pull this one off, or at least that just one or two more characters can. I can't see this being anything but detrimental to the meta.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I don't think this kind of exploit is going to make Sm4sh's reputation any better, it's pretty much Brawl's chaingrabs. This is just going to give even more fuel to Melee players to bash Sm4sh.

I just hope Link is the only one who can pull this one off, or at least that just one or two more characters can. I can't see this being anything but detrimental to the meta.

Still though. This at least gives him something to compete against the high tiers. Especially against Fox and Shiek, who are his worst MUs by far. He typically has a very hard time with high tiers across pretty much every Smash iteration, so I'd cut him a little sympathy.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't think this kind of exploit is going to make Sm4sh's reputation any better, it's pretty much Brawl's chaingrabs. This is just going to give even more fuel to Melee players to bash Sm4sh.

I just hope Link is the only one who can pull this one off, or at least that just one or two more characters can. I can't see this being anything but detrimental to the meta.

Melee has wobbling and quite a number of chaingrabs as well.

Link's death combo (which isn't even an infinite) requires you to be in position and at a correct percent, and several characters can escape it with a second jump and an immediate air dodge. In Melee, if IC grabs you, you can't do a thing.

The only ones I see who have a possibility of doing this is Link, Falco, and maybe Fox.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Melee has wobbling and quite a number of chaingrabs as well.

Link's death combo (which isn't even an infinite) requires you to be in position and at a correct percent, and several characters can escape it with a second job and an immediate air dodge. In Melee, if IC grabs you, you can't do a thing.

The only ones I see who have a possibility of doing this is Link, Falco, and maybe Fox.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way Fox does it is a bit different, since you need to chain his first and second jabs into each other instead of just jab 1. Another difference is that you're moving forward throughout the whole thing, so you'll eventually be unable to continue the chain as soon as you reach the edge of the stage/platform. I can recall Ike being able to do something similar, only not quite as good and landing it successfully is pretty situational (RIP Brawl Ike jab ).

 

[HeroMystic]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way Fox does it is a bit different, since you need to chain his first and second jabs into each other instead of just jab 1. Another difference is that you're moving forward throughout the whole thing, so you'll eventually be unable to continue the chain as soon as you reach the edge of the stage/platform. I can recall Ike being able to do something similar, only not quite as good and landing it successfully is pretty situational (RIP Brawl Ike jab ).

Indeed. In our local scene, Megafox, the best player in our city (and one of the best in Texas) does this all the time. That said, I'm very certain you can only do three to four strings at once before you can escape it. Larry Lurr usually only does two strings before doing a proper follow-up.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Some stuff to point out for other characters' experimentation:

One reason this works is because Link's Jab1 has knockback growth. Many weak attacks have set knockback, such as Bowser's Jab1, with the intention of allowing the follow-up to come reliably regardless of percent; Jabs with set knockback are usually have too little knockback to work in this way.

Also, in Brawl and Smash 4, if a move does not put you in the tumble animation ("isn't strong enough"), it is completely unaffected by attempts to DI. The far side of Link's Jab1 has an angle of 95 degrees, pulling them toward you while preventing it from working. This means that people should be looking for Jabs with an angle of 90 degrees or higher to test this out with. Fox and Falco are special cases due to their Jabs making them step forward.

I have no idea about the IASA for crouching on moves, but here's a list of characters with Jabs that meet the aforementioned requirements (doesn't put you into tumble until past KO percents, has an angle of 90+ degrees on the far end of it and/or causes the character to step forward). If a character is listed with both Jab1 and Jab2, it means that both Jab1 -> Jab1 and Jab1 -> Jab2 -> Jab1 -might- be possible.

Some moves are listed as set knockback; unlike Jabs with knockback growth, these moves scale based on the victim's weight and your own Rage. This means that the victim's weight, your own Rage, and the victim's fall speed should be played with in order to find percents where this might link into itself. Moves without set knockback should just be concerned about the opponent's percent, as far as I know.

DISCLAIMER: This is -not- a list of characters this works with. It is merely a list of things that meet the criteria to be worth testing for Jab cancel -> Jab. If you have tested it thoroughly and can weigh in, that would be great, and I can confirm/deny by editing this post.

Charizard: Jab2 (Maybe? Jab1 is set knockback at 120 degrees while Jab2 has growth at 80 degrees)
Dark Pit: Jab1, Jab2
Dedede: Jab1, Jab2
Donkey Kong: Jab1
Falco: Jab1, Jab2 (by virtue of the forward step)
Fox: Jab2 (by virtue of the forward step)
Greninja: Jab2 (though Jab1 pushes them outward at 80 degrees, so this wouldn't work for long)
Link: Jab1, Jab2
Lucario: Jab1, Jab2
Luigi: Jab1 (set knockback)
Mii Fighter: Jab2 (set knockback)
Mii Gunner: Jab1
Mii Swordsman: Jab2
Pit: Jab1, Jab2
Robin: Jab2
R.O.B.: Jab1
Rosalina: Luma's Jab2 (set knockback)
Sonic: Jab1 (set knockback)
Toon Link: Jab2
Yoshi: Jab1
Zero Suit Samus Jab1 (set knockback)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

As an aside/comment on the original video, crouch canceling Link's first Jab1 would probably allow people to perfect shield the second rep at lower percents that it would otherwise work at. You cannot crouch cancel it once you're already in it because you never get to put yourself in the crouching position.

Someone should test this.

 

[Rizen]

I just have to wonder why Link mains haven't found and abused already? Fox has been doing something similar since the 3DS version was very new ._.

Jab 1 canceling has been around for a long time. We just never used it like an infinite. I always assumed people would DI out and only jab canceled a few times than smashed. That SSB4 (lack of) DI.