Ledge Traps

[PEPESPAIN]

I open this thread to talk about ledge traps. Post your videos with every ledge trap you see. We need to improve this .

I start with the first one:

I missed the ledge trump, but it worked because I applied pressure on the ledge.

 

[ZeoLightning]

I open this thread to talk about ledge traps. Post your videos with every ledge trap you see. We need to improve this .

I start with the first one:

I missed the ledge trump, but it worked because I applied pressure on the ledge.

on characters with no hitbox recoveries (and diddy) using side be to the ledge is not a bad idea, but i've only pulled it off once in a match and that was on 3DS. ironically on a rosalina and that was a long time ago, i usually use the standard hydrant trap now

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I know like 8 ledge traps, with hydrant, trampoline or fruit that can be used on a tournament match. My idea is learn how to use them and maybe new ones.

 

[verbatim]

One thing I've recently begun experimenting with is launching the hydrant on the edge with the trampoline.

Tangentially related, does anyone know what Koolaid was trying to do here? If it wasn't a missed input it might be something useable.

Also it occurs to me that we could probably block recoveries with a hitbox by hitting them with the pellet but not chasing it, sort of like pellet healing but offensively against the plumbers/maybe others. If we miss we're in a bad situation though.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

One thing I've recently begun experimenting with is launching the hydrant on the edge with the trampoline.

Tangentially related, does anyone know what Koolaid was trying to do here? If it wasn't a missed input it might be something useable.

Also it occurs to me that we could probably block recoveries with a hitbox by hitting them with the pellet but not chasing it, sort of like pellet healing but offensively against the plumbers/maybe others. If we miss we're in a bad situation though.

I think he tried this:

Once I killed a Luigi like you said, he was doing a sideB to recover, I did sideB, he hitted on my pellet with his sideB and he died because the pellet let him on a bad situation

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Does anyone perform the dsmash on the ledge? I have a lot of problems doing it correctly, sometimes I hit, sometimes I don't

 

[dragontamer]

Does anyone perform the dsmash on the ledge? I have a lot of problems doing it correctly, sometimes I hit, sometimes I don't

I don't, explicitly because of this reason. I never really understood why it only sometimes hits.

 

[BSP]

Can you guys be a bit more specific? Do you mean hitting people hanging from the ledge? That depends on the character hanging. Some we can hit, others we can't.

If you mean using Dsmash to cover getups, it's alright I guess. High commitment for high reward if you catch a jump or neutral getup, but just ok otherwise since you launch them across the stage.

 

[dragontamer]

Good point.

DSmash to hit people hanging from the ledge doesn't seem consistent. It makes sense that it'd be a character-by-character basis however. Maybe its something I need to lab-out and study.

As for "high-commitment / high reward", Reverse Fox-trot USmash / turnaround stutterstep FSmash is all I need for punishing getups. The Foxtrot USmash covers roll getups, while Fox-trot turnaround stutterstep FSmash covers neutral getups (and sometimes, when I actually space it correctly, getup attacks).

And at high % when ledge invincibility is diminished, Fox-trot turnaround stutterstep FSmash also covers jump getups.

DSmash in this situation seems like a crutch. It doesn't have the range to cover getup attacks, although its a single option that is easier to use. The "gimp angle" is very strong however, I can imagine that DSmash is more threatening vs weaker recovery characters (like Mario or Little Mac)

But this isn't a "ledge trap" in the PacMan sense. This is more or less a universal technique that all characters have. I think I learned it when I was messing around with Little Mac / Mario (who can do it much better). Still, using a standard, universal option as part of your ledge-punish game is probably a good idea.

 

[verbatim]

Does anyone perform the dsmash on the ledge? I have a lot of problems doing it correctly, sometimes I hit, sometimes I don't

Once!

In all seriousness though I don't think Dsmash is good for much beyond maybe punishing rolls and spotdodges. If someone's below me and I'm standing on the ledge I prefer to go down after them and try to hit them with fair or bair (stage-spike), though dragontamer's usmash thing seems really interesting, I'll have to try that out when I get the chance.

 

[Smasher89]

As a non pacman player, im still very interested in why people dont use the up b to cover ledge getup, getup attack and roll, and i think probably sets up for good followups.

 

[verbatim]

As a non pacman player, im still very interested in why people dont use the up b to cover ledge getup, getup attack and roll, and i think probably sets up for good followups.

They can just hang on the edge, it's better to do this if you have a tumbling hydrant to cover them staying still.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Once!

In all seriousness though I don't think Dsmash is good for much beyond maybe punishing rolls and spotdodges. If someone's below me and I'm standing on the ledge I prefer to go down after them and try to hit them with fair or bair (stage-spike), though dragontamer's usmash thing seems really interesting, I'll have to try that out when I get the chance.

I did something like that. I was pushed by the water gush and hit someone that was recovering low, just when he tried to get the ledge.

I labbed a bit and there is a specific point (phantom left eye) where you can hit almost every one on the cast.

 

[ZeoLightning]

Does anyone perform the dsmash on the ledge? I have a lot of problems doing it correctly, sometimes I hit, sometimes I don't

depends on the matchup. different characters have different vulnerabilities over the ledge. smash science actually broke it down pretty nicely.

 

[Smasher89]

They can just hang on the edge, it's better to do this if you have a tumbling hydrant to cover them staying still.

and you could eaaily beat all their options from the ledge.

 

[Lonpos]

Does a hydrant extend your hitbox? In that way you can make sure the Downsmash covers everything on the ledge.
(By putting a hydrant against the ledge and destroy it with a downsmash)

 

[BSP]

As a non pacman player, im still very interested in why people dont use the up b to cover ledge getup, getup attack and roll, and i think probably sets up for good followups.

I prefer to go for offstage edgeguards as of late, but I didn't bother with solo trampoline on the ledge much. If you set it on the ledge, unless it's against a character that has hurtbox we can tag with Dsmash or Fsmash while they're hanging, we can't really threaten them with anything unless we jump over the trampoline and drop a hydrant.

If we do that, they can time get up option invincibility to pass through it, or let go, jump and attack the hydrant, and pass over the trampoline. I don't think Pac-Man has enough time to punish them for the latter response, and for the former, anything we get will knock them towards the stage.

I should mess with the spacing a bit more. I may have given up on it too early, and I can see it being a stressful situation for anyone who can get hit by Pac-Man's smashes while on the ledge.

 

[ZeoLightning]

one strategy i've always wanted to try that i got to work once was to use the key for edge gaurding. they key has a hitbox after hitting a wall

as you can see, i got that to angle down but im thinking about the possibility on doing this on stages with flatter walls or just catching people as they're recovering upwards.

 

[Lonpos]

one strategy i've always wanted to try that i got to work once was to use the key for edge gaurding. they key has a hitbox after hitting a wall

as you can see, i got that to angle down but im thinking about the possibility on doing this on stages with flatter walls or just catching people as they're recovering upwards.

Never thought of that one Zeo, looking good!
I also saw someone reverse-throwing an orange to the stage, but i didn't saw the point in that tbh.

 

[Nu~]

Never thought of that one Zeo, looking good!
I also saw someone reverse-throwing an orange to the stage, but i didn't saw the point in that tbh.

I do it because of the orange's horizontal knockback. Easier gimps for much less charge.


http://youtu.be/m3yN2QGl0TI
These are some of my set ups

 

[ZeoLightning]

I do it because of the orange's horizontal knockback. Easier gimps for much less charge.


http://youtu.be/m3yN2QGl0TI
These are some of my set ups

The first stock hydrant edgegaurd literally covered every option, nice. i also like the crossup back air into hydrant. something i need to improve myself is follow ups from galaxian.

Never thought of that one Zeo, looking good!
I also saw someone reverse-throwing an orange to the stage, but i didn't saw the point in that tbh.

thanks i think of all the fruit to use off stage it depends on what we have and what % the opponent is at. here are some of my theories

you can get early gimps with orange. its possible to bounce it off the wall but not as useful as key for doing that

cherry/strawberry lead to potential double fair Gimps. something HEAVILY underutilized by PAC's. but you have to be on stage

Melon and Galaxian Cover the edge snap imo

bell should be used for trumps. i think its possible to trump to be Reverse bell or even trump to backthrow bell.

and key can be used in the way i used it, catching an opponent at an angle or straight behind if possible.

i think fruit can be more experimented and used in this way, especially since PAC can go off stage with little concern for being gimped. i'd like to do more testing with it. but i can only play a couple of my friends online. i cant test locally cause i dont have any training partners

 

[Aaron1997]

Ignore the terrible Falcon I went on FG just to do this set up. I didn't do it perfectly but you can see what I was trying to do. With this they either Ledge getup into the Hydrent or get Trumped B-air and die anyway.