Cancel Recovery & auto canceling ? ALSO DI! (confirmed) EDIT*

[Azizibesmashing]

ATTENTION NEW LOOKERS IM ADDING THIS JUST FOR YOU. [EDIT 9//2/14 3:41 PM PST (los angeles)]
FROM SOME AMAZING SMASHERS - in short To sum things up, after analysis, some moves just have very little landing lag, some aerials can autocancel, and there is currently no way to cancel lag with an input or whatever.

I made a post earlier this week about dash dancing and the new mechanic pivot canceling
but i went back today to play the demo for a couple more hours (irvine spectrum nintendo tour e3 demo)

Something New!
i jumped in the air with Marth to perform a fair and as soon as i hit the ground i could attack immidiatly, Dash left or right immidiatley , or go into my shield immidiatly. with the right timing you skip the animation ... i don't know if this has been proved for the new SSB4 if so I'm apologize for making another thread about it.... i performed the same stunts with the villager and fox. for example i jump up and use his sling shot forward AND backwards (FAIR x BAIR) and as soon as i land i cancel the animation by attacking as soon as i hit the right frame landing on the ground or with R to shield or dash left and right.[NO ANIMATION ] thats as far as i went with that because i just wanted to play. i spent at least an hour and a half in the training room. (with short hops it was difficult to do this with a FAIR. with out an attack is all super possible. i got it best with marth..lets hope nintendo works that out)

this was for Fox, marth, little mac, sheik, megaman & wii fit trainer


[NOT FROM MY ORIGINAL POST] EDIT* 11 AM 9/2/14
BELOW IS A GIF FROM @Untouch
this is more for the speed of the game.
Mario and Pacman - watch them closely




this is the footy and its nearly as fast as in the vid below skip to 1:15

Also Bowser. has a forward air but a diagnol down right title , forward tilt, and a up diagonal tilt. ( 3 different variations of forward A)
not every character has that. it makes me feel very good about each character being unique, which to me will make the game 10x more competitive.

ALSO I SPENT 30 minutes making sure the DI was effective.. i played level 9 the whole time and when i got to 100% i just held the analog stick down and survived until 179% where i accidentally slipped up (updated, fogot to add)

DASH DANCE - its not like in melee. its that brawl BULL but this is the footy i got that day at the demo station.. BRAWL DASH DANCING.

Also let me touch up on pivot cancels.
AMAZING.. the best example is wii fit trainer . dash dancing for her is pointless honestly because you can turn around with the pivot cancel and hit foes IN FRONT or BEHIND you. i was thinking of a bunch of mind games i could use with this move..
(pivot cancel - running one way and turning around into a smash hit that you can charge, or simple quick attacking you opponent with no lag)


Just me following up with my last thread because i was able to go back and put in some hours alone at the demo station
once again NINTENDO TOUR irvine spectrum e3 demo not final build which is expected to be very pleasING TO THE super smashers

EDIT** 9/2/2014 3-4 hours after the original post.
after a chat with
@Signia
the conclusion was
I WAS CANCELING MY RECOVERY.
INTO A DASH (LEFT OF RIGHT)
SHIELD
OR A FORWARD A ATTACK.
all with the correct timing [which was not hard to do]

 

[Raijinken]

I'm sure many people will be thrilled to hear this, assuming it is accurate in the final version.

I'm not in that group, I've always wanted ground to be a strong option, but if this is the case, then there is once again little reason to approach on the ground unless your character's aerials are just extremely weak.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I'm sure many people will be thrilled to hear this, assuming it is accurate in the final version.

I'm not in that group, I've always wanted ground to be a strong option, but if this is the case, then there is once again little reason to approach on the ground unless your character's aerials are just extremely weak.

Imma ground dude, but everyone has been worried about this lag cancel and saying it's not in the game. I just played it and it worked very well. Aslong as it's in the final build smashers will be happy

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

D1 (a famous smash commentator) confirmed this exact thing at PAX. Seems like they modified the E3 build: kept the same characters and stages, but updated its mechanics/physics.

Fantastic news, especially for Marth mains. Thanks again for reporting this, OP. You a rich homie

EDIT: I'm referring to the confirmation that Marth's F-Air autocancels.

 

[TryHardOliver]

YES! This is what I like to hear! xD

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Need I say more?

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

D1 (a famous smash commentator) confirmed this exact thing at PAX. Seems like they modified the E3 build: kept the same characters and stages, but updated its mechanics/physics.

Fantastic news, especially for Marth mains. Thanks again for reporting this, OP. You a rich homie

I bet you're happy about that F-air.

 

[Soul.]

So there's a landing lag cancel? This is good news.
Marth mains must be happy now, I suppose.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

So there's a landing lag cancel? This is good news.
Marth mains must be happy now, I suppose.

http://youtu.be/6iBiJBXV3fA

I did. Everything on the 3ds demo in this video BUT THE WAVE DASHING

Pretty amazing news

 

[Raijinken]

So there's a landing lag cancel? This is good news.
Marth mains must be happy now, I suppose.

I'd be happier if ground was a good approach option, but I admit having a simple tech input for this (apparently just timing a standard input, nothing obscure like pressing L before landing) is appealing. If the approach methods are balanced and relevant to matchups instead of consistently favoring air, I'd be quite fine with this as a way to follow combos better while maintaining the viability of a grounded assault.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Time to hard-wire my brain to execute these difficult movements.

 

[Soul.]

I'd be happier if ground was a good approach option, but I admit having a simple tech input for this (apparently just timing a standard input, nothing obscure like pressing L before landing) is appealing. If the approach methods are balanced and relevant to matchups instead of consistently favoring air, I'd be quite fine with this as a way to follow combos better while maintaining the viability of a grounded assault.

For all we know, this could be good for some characters, but we should wait until the Smash 3DS streams start around September 12th. This way, we would actually see if ground is a good approach option just like the air. It being a standard input makes it "easier."

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Wait, hasn't Smash 4 already been confirmed to be a more "ground-combat oriented" game?
I thought this was covered a while back ago....and even I recall having to rely more on grounded approach when I played the Smashfest Demo.

 

[DaDavid]

Damn I hope this is in the final build. It's not a deal breaker for me or anything, but it would help greatly with the pace of the game.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Damn I hope this is in the final build. It's not a deal breaker for me or anything, but it would help greatly with the pace of the game.

I seriously doubt they would remove it if they didn't have it in the E3 build. This makes it seem as if they purposely added it due to fan's request.

 

[Raijinken]

Wait, hasn't Smash 4 already been confirmed to be a more "ground-combat oriented" game?
I thought this was covered a while back ago....and even I recall having to rely more on grounded approach when I played the Smashfest Demo.

It was more ground oriented presumably because air was so laggy on end.

I do like this, though, because it's a direct and intuitive way to continue the combo, and unlike L-canceling, you'll have to think a bit when continuing your combo. SOME move at the end is bound to end up lagging (unless it just turns out that dashing is the way to go. Still better than L-canceling), and that opens it up for some counterplay.

 

[Ganreizu]

This makes it seem as if they purposely added it due to fan's request.

Not just the fans, the invitational professionals.

Not like there's anything at all wrong with listening to the fans *COUGHCAPCOMHACKCOUGHWHEEZE*

 

[Soul.]

Wait, hasn't Smash 4 already been confirmed to be a more "ground-combat oriented" game?
I thought this was covered a while back ago....and even I recall having to rely more on grounded approach when I played the Smashfest Demo.

Things could change. It could be an air-based game, a ground-based game, or both. The last option would be perfect for these games.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Things could change. It could be an air-based game, a ground-based game, or both. The last option would be perfect for these games.

It's looking to be just that, especially since L-cancelling is a thing once more.

 

[EarthBoundRules]

Wow, this is fantastic! Just one more reason to be excited about this game.

 

[Soul.]

It's looking to be just that, especially since L-cancelling is a thing once more.

If L-Cancelling is a thing again, then aerials will be used to follow up in combos or something, although I could be wrong.
This is still good news, whether it be auto cancelled or L-cancelled.

 

[Renji64]

Gonna have to wait for some proof of this but if true hype.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

For all we know, this could be good for some characters, but we should wait until the Smash 3DS streams start around September 12th. This way, we would actually see if ground is a good approach option just like the air. It being a standard input makes it "easier."

luckily i have an LL and will gladly stream and make specific videos for you all

 

[Khao]

Damn, if this is for real, this is awesome news.

I always welcome a more agile game, being prevented from doing anything for a relatively "long" period of time each time you land might be realistic and logical, but not much fun.

Just hope they thought it well and manage to balance it accordingly, I'd hate to see all their hard work at balancing go to waste because of a last-minute decision that changed everything.

 

[Captain Norris]

If this is real, then what I said on the Captain Falcon VS newcomers thread is spot on! He of all peopel needs as little landing lag as possible. Hype!

 

[Dr. Dobis]

The hype is real! Hope my 3ds can handle it

 

[Reila]

Time to hard-wire my brain to execute these difficult movements.

My thoughts exactly. I hope there aren't a lot of bizarre mechanics/movements in Smash 4 like there are in Melee :'/

 

[Captain Norris]

My thoughts exactly. I hope there aren't a lot of bizarre mechanics/movements in Smash 4 like there are in Melee :'/

I gotta ask, is it only because of the difficulty of implementing them? Because these techniques are much more simple to do (especially the crouch cancel and pivot cancel.)

 

[Reila]

I gotta ask, is it only because of the difficulty of implementing them? Because these techniques are much more simple to do (especially the crouch cancel and pivot cancel.)

It is because of the difficulty and because I don't think those "mechanics" really add much to the game.

 

[Captain Norris]

It is because of the difficulty and because I don't think those "mechanics" really add much to the game.

What these mechanics do is a different type of addition.
These mechanics allow different forms of movement options. Instead of the basic dash attack or Fair toward the opponent, you can now fake them out by cancelling your pivot and slide and attack at the same time. It is a bunch of mind games that will eventually cause the opponent to slip.
The Air attack autocancelling is all about timing. Not really too hard.
And, from what I understand, the turndashing/pivot cancel is just that: you cancel your pivot with another attack (i.e. you are pivoting left like you are about to dash left but you forward smash, causing you to slide and cancel the pivot frames.)

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

This sounds like good news, but I also hope it's not a pain to execute, neither does the bolstered movement options screw over heavies or slower attackers.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://youtu.be/6iBiJBXV3fA

I did. Everything on the 3ds demo in this video BUT THE WAVE DASHING

Pretty amazing news

Wise this seems promising, gonna wait for the game but still wow.

 

[Reila]

What these mechanics do is a different type of addition.
These mechanics allow different forms of movement options. Instead of the basic dash attack or Fair toward the opponent, you can now fake them out by cancelling your pivot and slide and attack at the same time. It is a bunch of mind games that will eventually cause the opponent to slip.
The Air attack autocancelling is all about timing. Not really too hard.
And, from what I understand, the turndashing/pivot cancel is just that: you cancel your pivot with another attack (i.e. you are pivoting left like you are about to dash left but you forward smash, causing you to slide and cancel the pivot frames.)

The problem is the amount of tricks and techniques. One or two are okay, but not everyone have time to learn and practice all of those things you mentioned. It is not like I have plans of becoming a high level player, but I would like to not have my butt kicked in online matches simply because I don't have time to learn one hundred tricks and mind games, you know?

 

[Katy Parry]

So you're saying aerials are canceled if you attack as soon as you land?

Do only certain types of moves cancel aerials? So Specials cancel them? What about Shielding?

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I'm keeping expectations low here. Landing lag interruption was already confirmed (and heck, it even existed in Brawl) plus these last few weeks people have been proving to me that they are unaware of what autocancelling is. When I see footage, I go "2 frames = 4 frames = autocancel" whenever someone says landing lag was lowered and if they don't provide footage I still end up thinking "probably just an autocancel m8 calm down".

But if this ends up being what it sounds like then this is revolutionary for Smash 4's gameplay.

 

[LIQUID12A]

My thoughts exactly. I hope there aren't a lot of bizarre mechanics/movements in Smash 4 like there are in Melee :'/

It's Smash, so it's bound to have something, but hopefully not to Melee's level. I mean, whoa, a game that hasn't been released yet is already being tested and verified for tech. It's insane.

Regardless, I'll learn tech anyway because it suits me.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I'm keeping expectations low here. Landing lag interruption was already confirmed (and heck, it even existed in Brawl) plus these last few weeks people have been proving to me that they are unaware of what autocancelling is. When I see footage, I go "2 frames = 4 frames = autocancel" whenever someone says landing lag was lowered and if they don't provide footage I still end up thinking "probably just an autocancel m8 calm down".

But if this ends up being what it sounds like then this is revolutionary for Smash 4's gameplay.

This is basically how I'm feeling about this thread right now.

 

[Raijinken]

Whatever it is, I hope it's not L-canceling in the shield button sense. Lag canceling with an attacking move is fine.

 

[Ghoti]

http://youtu.be/6iBiJBXV3fA

I did. Everything on the 3ds demo in this video BUT THE WAVE DASHING

Pretty amazing news

So, no wave dashing in Smash 4? Just clarifying.

 

[Raijinken]

So, no wave dashing in Smash 4? Just clarifying.

Dodges work like they did in Brawl (but with more ending lag), and thus, no wavedashing. Love it or hate it, that looks like the case.