Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Wots All This Then?]

Oh, so now that I'm up to page 16 suddenly Rake is all kinds of willing to ask questions and generate discussion.

Okay

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I've now laid out why I feel your scum in this situation, tell me how my approach to it convinces you of my scumminess ? Or rather , and more in depth, how my apparent lack-thereof was driving your ideal of scumRake ? Am I maliciously reading you incorrectly ? What of my other feelings, do you agree or disagree with any of them ? What do those reads tell you ?

These

What of the former of that argument made it see more appealing to you ? I.E : What malicious intent were you gleaning from me defending Soup sidelong ?

Questions

What are the right reasons ?

Are

Just noticed this in-depth: Why do you think his defensiveness was more telling than his actions later on in thread ? WRT the end of your paragraph, was this meant to imply kantrip/Soup scum, or was it meat to imply that Kantrip's soupscum read(which i don't believe he went too in depth into) shook soup ? Why do you feel like Soup as scum would react defensively at the first go ?

So

EBWOP






What of the former of that argument made it see more appealing to you ? I.E : What malicious intent were you gleaning from me defending Soup sidelong ?

Incredibly

How so ?
10 follow ups

Hollow

Don't like this switch. Explain more why you felt that way at that time.

Pointless

GS mafia.

Mistimed

I had a strong reaction ? Expand on how you felt it was strong por favor.

This is also really wishy washy and me no gusta that.

I believe knatrip has laid it out now, So what feels did you get from his explanation ? Did your thought of opportunism carry through or how ddi what he say convince you to the opposite ?

And

This post is great and people should talk to me about it.

Most

Why were you defending a null read (being me), so adamantly ?

Importantly

Why is the situation different between myself and you ?

This is also directed @PP

****ing

What did you like ?

Late.



Are you serious with this Rake? Where was the discussion from you when we asked you for it? We specifically WANTED you to discuss things and you were mum, and now you've decided to just fill the thread with open questions now?

WHY.

WHY THE **** WOULD YOU WAIT TO DO THIS NOW. WHY WOULDN'T YOU ASK WHAT THE RIGHT REASONS FOR THINKING OUR SLOT IS TOWN WAS WHEN IT WAS FIRST SAID. WHAT IS EVEN THE POINT OF HALF OF THESE QUESTIONS WHEN YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN THE BASICS OF DISCUSSION THIS GAME.

Are you kidding me?





No one should have Rake as a town lean this game. Literally no one. No excuses.

I expect Orbo's demands to "Do it." to be met in full, and even then I have pretty much no hope for you to redeem your slot in my eyes.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Something interesting finally happened to spark me; An idea that I am running with atm, I'll concede they are late, but they are no less important to me.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Are you serious with this Rake? Where was the discussion from you when we asked you for it? We specifically WANTED you to discuss things and you were mum, and now you've decided to just fill the thread with open questions now?

WHY.

WHY THE **** WOULD YOU WAIT TO DO THIS NOW. WHY WOULDN'T YOU ASK WHAT THE RIGHT REASONS FOR THINKING OUR SLOT IS TOWN WAS WHEN IT WAS FIRST SAID. WHAT IS EVEN THE POINT OF HALF OF THESE QUESTIONS WHEN YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN THE BASICS OF DISCUSSION THIS GAME.

Are you kidding me?

Yes. It was more sidelong and mainly suppressed by me until such a time I felt I could take a stronger step forward with my reads, which is luckily happening because of a spark of not only content thanks to your other head, but an interesting tidbit of an idea I'm going to push on. Yes, you wanted me to discuss things, I'll concede I wasn't very forthcoming in that regard, but I needed to iron my own feels out first, and to top that, I felt like my responses to your questions were just where they needed to be for the time being. Because nothing sparked any sort of interest in me that I felt I could push without it dropping to the wayside too easily, as I have said, I really like being right.

What basics do you want to hear my opinion on ? If you still want me to discuss mechanics, I'll be happy to out what I think if them, or what I think best helps, if that's what your after. Didn't before, simply because winning matches is as much as I thought was important wrt match mechanics and such. It's as simple as: What do you think about matches ? : Well I think we have to win them, obviously. And at the time that was as much as I choose to worry about it. Focusing too much on mechanics is a easy way to get lost in them and forget that, although not a regular game, you can't apply the same regular game tactics to it, as long as you tailor them to the situation at hand.

No, I am not kidding, I rarely kid in mafia games, and when I do, you'll know because it's usually pretty witty.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Note"This list is only reflective of Orbo's reads as Jdietz has only commented to me in particular on rake.
1. Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz43) town out the ***.
2. pawndidater2 Newb town. This is based on his entry into the game and the fact that I cannot see any scummie being so ******** as to actually out who he thinks is the cop in such a manner.
3. Ryker Null and should be ****ed outta here on D2 if he doesn't do anything.
4. PrivateJoker-Brown Townie as all ****.
5. Shocodoro Blagshidect (Sephiroths Masamune/Xonar) Dislike this slot based on the fact that he's done almost nothing except ask questions, give two reads which no one can see how he got them, and tell people to shut up.
6. thethirdkoopa null.
7. Red Ruy nulltown. This is based entirely on his quick interaction with Joker early on.
8. Gheb_01null nulltown.
9. Picture Perfect (J/WashedLaundry) Townie as I am.
10. soup nulltown.
11. Potassium null.
12. Super Fabulous (-Masquerain/Ranmaru) Nulltown.
13. Anomandaris_Rake I think he's worked his way back to nullish, but Dietz thinks he's absolutely scum. I can live with him being a scumread.

Dietz is largely fine with this with the exception that he's of the opinion that no town points have been earned by Pawn whatsoever so far.

(A completely non-mafia related side note: My birthday was just what I hoped for and was therefore great. :D )


@Nabe: I know our hydra has been bugging you constantly for clarification already, but I have one last question that I think is important to be clear instead of just implied one way or the other:

If the Tourney Cop correctly guesses and removes a mafia member at the end of cycle 1 and takes a spot in the tourney, can he still review matches for cheating during cycle 2?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Yes. It was more sidelong and mainly suppressed by me until such a time I felt I could take a stronger step forward with my reads, which is luckily happening because of a spark of not only content thanks to your other head, but an interesting tidbit of an idea I'm going to push on. Yes, you wanted me to discuss things, I'll concede I wasn't very forthcoming in that regard, but I needed to iron my own feels out first, and to top that, I felt like my responses to your questions were just where they needed to be for the time being. Because nothing sparked any sort of interest in me that I felt I could push without it dropping to the wayside too easily, as I have said, I really like being right.

What basics do you want to hear my opinion on ? If you still want me to discuss mechanics, I'll be happy to out what I think if them, or what I think best helps, if that's what your after. Didn't before, simply because winning matches is as much as I thought was important wrt match mechanics and such. It's as simple as: What do you think about matches ? : Well I think we have to win them, obviously. And at the time that was as much as I choose to worry about it. Focusing too much on mechanics is a easy way to get lost in them and forget that, although not a regular game, you can't apply the same regular game tactics to it, as long as you tailor them to the situation at hand.

No, I am not kidding, I rarely kid in mafia games, and when I do, you'll know because it's usually pretty witty.

I want to know why you didn't want to discuss what the correct steps for the game were. Specifically I want to know why you shot down discussion of the use of cheating in both our hotel room and thread when it was brought up. When we asked you why you said not to cheat you said "Because isn't that obvious?" and left it at that when it clearly wasn't obvious and both our hydra and Kantrip wanted to know why you disagreed.

I want to know why, if you wanted to be able to solidify your reads and understanding, you would forego the critical chance to form an understanding by discussing it with others who had a different opinion in a game that's quite complex. I don't know why you opted not to participate, and I don't like that you opted to stay silent for oh so very long, and only now seem to have the remotest inkling that you want to figure out this game.
I don't buy that you only thought "Well we have to win them." and found it meet to leave it at that, nor that you thought your "answers" were in any way sufficient. I don't buy it for one second. "Isn't it obvious?" isn't an answer, it's a dismissal. If that's where you "thought your answers needed to be for the time being" then you better back up that stance.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Picture Perfect - Easily could have let everyone continue to **** about and make things suck for town, but instead took initiative and made things right.

You're completely wrong @ bold. Complaining about people trying to use mechanics in order to win the game for town is NOT "making things right" in any way. PP is gaining way too much pro-town credit for the wrong things and I still want the cop to investigate him, and check whether soup cheats in his match or not.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

EBWOP
*doesn't mean you can't

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I want to know why you didn't want to discuss what the correct steps for the game were. Specifically I want to know why you shot down discussion of the use of cheating in both our hotel room and thread when it was brought up. When we asked you why you said not to cheat you said "Because isn't that obvious?" and left it at that when it clearly wasn't obvious and both our hydra and Kantrip wanted to know why you disagreed.

I want to know why, if you wanted to be able to solidify your reads and understanding, you would forego the critical chance to form an understanding by discussing it with others who had a different opinion in a game that's quite complex. I don't know why you opted not to participate, and I don't like that you opted to stay silent for oh so very long, and only now seem to have the remotest inkling that you want to figure out this game.
I don't buy that you only thought "Well we have to win them." and found it meet to leave it at that, nor that you thought your "answers" were in any way sufficient. I don't buy it for one second. "Isn't it obvious?" isn't an answer, it's a dismissal. If that's where you "thought your answers needed to be for the time being" then you better back up that stance.

I think you shouldn't cheat unless you have to as a townie, because it makes it easier for the Tourney Cop to figure out who mafia is, if since mafia's going to cheat one way or another no matter what I would think. I felt that'd be pretty obvious, because well, Why should you HAVE to cheat as a townie ? The assertion that you should assume your playing against mafia and cheat because they will be is just bad, what does you cheating achieve in that situation, you still lose regardless and if you cheat against another townie and win that way, your by-proxy enabling mafia to get further in bracket's by knocking other townies lower and yes, I know someone has to win, and someone has to lose, but I don't think one townie should go out of their way to win, and especially not if it's against someone they, or even possibly thread consensus is town. The other assertion that cheating for the points in order to keep townies at the top of the bracket is also, but less so, bad, I think, I think it'd be better for townies to work under the assumption their matches are being reviewed, and I feel it'd be townier to refrain from cheating unless totally necessary to make the cop's job easier. I felt this line of thought would be pretty easy to get to, but I guess it wasn't or at least I should have used a lot of capital letters and shouted or something, apparently.

Because it would have distracted my opinion, usually I'm pretty open and willing to hear anything and everything and give it a good think out for my feels on it, but it is specifically because this game is different and complex that I instead chose to solidify myself first, and I don't think my approach is any less legitimate, in this situation, if I get too distracted chasing down everyone else's opinion like a wild dog before I have my own, I feel that would have ultimately resulted in me wasting very precious time. Why is me staying silent wrong though ? I opted to participate less and be less involved then usual because of what I just stated, why is me being more silent bad if I don't have anything to add ? Throwing a half-thought out opinion on something benefits no-one when I'm not going to be able to follow through on it. It wasn't only now I wanted to figure this game out, I've wanted to figure it out for a long time, I simply chose to prioritize my own understanding of it and be as involved as I could / felt was where I should be at the time, until such a point I was ready to create an open discussion about it and hopefully get some footwork done.

You can not buy it all you like, at the time those were my only thought's on the matter, I hadn't truthfully given any thought beyond winning to matches or the rest of it beyond reading the OP about them.What would a sufficient answer have been ? Like with your other head, I don't understand what you were expecting to hear from people with that question. Or how, with what is at best a lackluster / lazier answer, you can't just accept those were my only thought's on the matter.

Stance backed up, easy as pie.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

EBWOP; First paragraph
* go out of there way to win through cheating

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: I know our hydra has been bugging you constantly for clarification already, but I have one last question that I think is important to be clear instead of just implied one way or the other:

If the Tourney Cop correctly guesses and removes a mafia member at the end of cycle 1 and takes a spot in the tourney, can he still review matches for cheating during cycle 2?

Yes.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

What do we even do to... Fight?

I get that it happens in Cycle 2. >:

 

[#HBC | Joker]

No it doesn't. It's going to come up several times in cycle 1. Once this morning phase is over, we go to lunch, and then matches begin.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Okay

...So then what else do we do for this phase since there's no lynching? I guess the Tourney Cop does his move.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

The tourney cop doesn't do his thing until Cycle 1 is over, and Cycle 2 is about to begin.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

What we want to have happen is for inactive slots (hint hint, this is you!) to get in on the scumhunting, and lay out some reads and comments about people's play thus far.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Status 1-4

Request Queue
Pota > Room 2
PJB > Room 1
Fabio > Room 4



PrivateJoker-Brown has received the Bye for Day 1 Match.

Day 1 Morning will end in 3 and a half hours from this post.

 

[pawndidater2]

You're completely wrong @ bold. Complaining about people trying to use mechanics in order to win the game for town is NOT "making things right" in any way. PP is gaining way too much pro-town credit for the wrong things and I still want the cop to investigate him, and check whether soup cheats in his match or not.

Then what is #537? I have a hard time believing mafia would scream at people to get on track. If anything, it would be in their favor to let people screw around and make things difficult for people actually trying to scum hunt.

 

[Picture Perfect]

You're completely wrong @ bold. Complaining about people trying to use mechanics in order to win the game for town is NOT "making things right" in any way. PP is gaining way too much pro-town credit for the wrong things and I still want the cop to investigate him, and check whether soup cheats in his match or not.

You're full of **** and completely misconstrued my intentions.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Then what is #537? I have a hard time believing mafia would scream at people to get on track. If anything, it would be in their favor to let people screw around and make things difficult for people actually trying to scum hunt.

Not in this game, this is not traditional mafia.

You're full of **** and completely misconstrued my intentions.

That remains to be seen.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Who cares if it's not traditional mafia? We still have to find a mafia faction.

 

[Picture Perfect]

EBWOP: Which means there's still people operating with alternative intentions. There's still people on a scumteam. There's still reasons to read people. I dunno why you're trying to get people to stop liking or disbelieve that post but it's subtle and incredibly manipulative and I don't like it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Your post indicates that traditionally hunting scum is the only pro-town way to win this game and that simply isn't true.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Wait, Gheb, why do you wanna check if I cheat in my match? I'm going to be honest with you right now and say that I am going to cheat. Because I do not trust Ryker enough to fairly play and I would like to make my chances greater to move up in the bracket.

 

[Picture Perfect]

No it doesn't. That wasn't the point of it at all. Instead of slinging mud first, maybe you could ask for clarification.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I agree that Pawn is stupid town. Just reading him I got that feeling, more or less the fact he wasn't notified of the game starting. I don't think it was a ploy as to why he was inactive. I don't trust TKD, and I believe he is far too surface level for his own good.

I'm starting to suspect Rake the more he posts, but it's not anything concrete. I actually like Gheb.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

10/10 would give Bye to/not cheat against
WATT, PJB, PP

Town but would not give Bye
Pawn, Super Fab

Nulltown (Need More)
Sephnar, Gheb

Null
Red Ryu, Rake, Inactives

Scumlean
TTK

Scum, do not give bye
Kantrip

Where the **** is:
Ryker

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kantrip/Rake is a very possible team that I have been considering.

 

[Picture Perfect]

10/10 would give Bye to/not cheat against
WATT, PJB, PP

Town but would not give Bye
Pawn, Super Fab

Nulltown (Need More)
Sephnar, Gheb

Null
Red Ryu, Rake, Inactives

Scumlean
TTK

Scum, do not give bye
Kantrip

Where the **** is:
Ryker

Switch Koops and Rake, put you into the second tier, and throw Gheb into the null pile and you've got where I'm at at the moment.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Kantrip/Rake is a very possible team that I have been considering.

Talk to me about it. I think I might see where you're coming from but I'm not sure if it's nothing more than a reach.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

What do you feel is more likely: Kantrip backing out of a stance on his partner and not solidifying his scumread, or him backing out of a stance because Rake is town and he didn't really have a solidified scum-read in the first place? I feel like Kantrip would have no problem distancing his partner here, and would even go so far to throw him under the bus if need be. However, this isn't the case. It makes me feel like there's a possibility for Rake being town for this matter, however, Rake's reaction to all this is very unsettling. I'm not sure what his intent was to bring up my post about Kantrip, but to not lead on it or do anything with it is suspicious. If it really bothered Rake in the first place, why did it only come to fruition now? I don't understand it, and I don't understand why Rake is being so stubborn to do anything. I want to go with my first instinct but I don't believe Rake would feel so afraid of outing his reads at this point, especially when we're 750 posts in. Do you recall a solidified stance from Rake? I have been skimming his posts, but I don't ever get that feeling from him. There's also a concern in how he's treating others and pressure. He went so far to write two goddamn paragraphs for WATT calling him out on his bull****. The need to defend yourself so much is either a townie who is frustrated, or a scum who is trying to be justifiable. I don't believe Rake would come to those precautions, let alone care. The change in attitude of this is also weird, because if you look earlier, Rake openly stated that he didn't care and "he wanted to take more time" with things. I just don't buy it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I believe this game is occam's razor for me. Perhaps it's a bit naive to town-read nearly every active poster, but sometimes that really is the case. I have no reason to suspect my town-reads, and I do not have a feeling of doubt when it comes to them. PJB is very openly town, trying to discuss important matters and making insightful ones at that. WATT is under the same boat. I don't think anyone disagrees with these two and really, why should they? I was really hesitant on you PP, but I bought your anger and my frustration towards me. It got me thinking of how much of a douche I really was being, but it also helped me discern your intentions. I felt like at first, you were just posting for the sake of posting. I really dislike your multi-post style because it attributes to someone who is just clinging to everything in an attempt to force content. However, you've really calmed down and put your head in game, and you're far less scatterbrained then what I thought you were. Your posts and frustration towards me was very genuine. You have me fooled, if you're scum. I like Super Fab because I believe Ran really is trying and I feel there is just, simply put, a naturalness to them. I don't feel like either slot is forcing things, and so far I have believed Ran from the start. I didn't understand Kantrip's statement about "Do you see it now, soup?" What do you want me to see? If you're going to point something out, the least you can do is elaborate on it. I felt like Kantrip was just pushing on Super Fab without concrete evidence or a townie intention to, because I don't believe if Kantrip truly scum-read someone, he would just go "JEE GUYS LOOK LOOK AT THIS DO YOU SEE THIS." This, among other things, is why I town-read Super Fab. I like Sephnar based on our room conversations and his goals. While his content and reads are lacking, I feel like he has a plan stirring in motion. Perhaps he will become less vague then. I like Gheb for the same reasons, really. There's nothing much else that bothers me, besides maybe his early-game. I don't have a specific reason.

I dislike Red Ryu and I actually would put him towards Null-scum more than anything. I believe Red Ryu would be far more assertive but instead he's being lazy about things. I don't understand his thought process, but even if I didn't, I really believe that Ryu likes being town and would be much more active in the discussion. Is there some sort of tell that I'm missing from him, something I don't understand? I recall some people calling him Town.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

TTK is a scum-lean more or less because I see him as newb-scum. Why do you read him null?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

If there's a chance for one of my town-reads on being wrong, I am banking however on you PP. Hopefully, that isn't the case and It really is easy as it seems.

 

[Picture Perfect]

What do you feel is more likely: Kantrip backing out of a stance on his partner and not solidifying his scumread, or him backing out of a stance because Rake is town and he didn't really have a solidified scum-read in the first place? I feel like Kantrip would have no problem distancing his partner here, and would even go so far to throw him under the bus if need be. However, this isn't the case. It makes me feel like there's a possibility for Rake being town for this matter, however, Rake's reaction to all this is very unsettling. I'm not sure what his intent was to bring up my post about Kantrip, but to not lead on it or do anything with it is suspicious. If it really bothered Rake in the first place, why did it only come to fruition now? I don't understand it, and I don't understand why Rake is being so stubborn to do anything. I want to go with my first instinct but I don't believe Rake would feel so afraid of outing his reads at this point, especially when we're 750 posts in. Do you recall a solidified stance from Rake? I have been skimming his posts, but I don't ever get that feeling from him. There's also a concern in how he's treating others and pressure. He went so far to write two goddamn paragraphs for WATT calling him out on his bull****. The need to defend yourself so much is either a townie who is frustrated, or a scum who is trying to be justifiable. I don't believe Rake would come to those precautions, let alone care. The change in attitude of this is also weird, because if you look earlier, Rake openly stated that he didn't care and "he wanted to take more time" with things. I just don't buy it.

"hi i'm soup let me describe every single problem pp has had with rake since the start of the game."

the kantrip angle is interesting though. when did he back out of the stance?

 

[Picture Perfect]

TTK is a scum-lean more or less because I see him as newb-scum. Why do you read him null?

Not enough there to say anything either way for me. All I remember from him is catch-up posts and an "I don't understand what's going on someone help me" when he finally did catch up.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

When he couldn't back up that he was going to get the substantiation of Rake dislike tomorrow, falling back on laziness. He has not really commented about it, let alone even bothered with it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm a late bloomer, PP.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I dislike Red Ryu and I actually would put him towards Null-scum more than anything. I believe Red Ryu would be far more assertive but instead he's being lazy about things. I don't understand his thought process, but even if I didn't, I really believe that Ryu likes being town and would be much more active in the discussion. Is there some sort of tell that I'm missing from him, something I don't understand? I recall some people calling him Town.

The thing about Ruy is he's still technically V/LA so I don't really understand why you're calling him out for being lazy when he's posting from a phone. It won't result in much I think. Let him come back, then we can deal with him.

 

[Picture Perfect]

When he couldn't back up that he was going to get the substantiation of Rake dislike tomorrow, falling back on laziness. He has not really commented about it, let alone even bothered with it.

Did he switch it? I remember what you're saying now, though, and I somewhat see the scumminess of it now. Seems like he might be keeping Rake at arm's length.