Just One Ninja Trying to Git Gud!

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 13, 2014

Heyo! I reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want to get good at Greninja. I think I'm quite decent at him, maybe, possibly... But there's sooo much more room for improvement, and I'd like some tips on getting better.

I know, looking a videos is a ton of work. Sorry. .-. I don't want to be too much of a bother, but I really wanna step up my Greninja game. I've got a ton of videos though. I'll just put them in a spoiler!

As you go down, the more (generally) new they are!

I think I use dash attacking a bit too much? I'm not sure. Really, any comments would be appreciated! c:

Jade_Rock55 · Oct 13, 2014

I like videos but I can't check til after school tomorrow someone will probably comment by then.

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 13, 2014

Jade_Rock55 said:
I like videos but I can't check til after school tomorrow someone will probably comment by then.

Alrighty. Thanks for at least stopping by!

TehSharpie · Oct 14, 2014

I haven't watched all of the videos yet but I've noticed that you tend to use rolling as your main form of ground transportation. Try using Greninja's running speed to create more mobility as he is one of the faster characters in this game. Rolling can become a very predictable habit that can be punished easily once your opponent catches on. You might also want to try using more of his aerial and grab game (especially uthrow, uair, and nair). Greninja's tilts are pretty solid as well and can chain really well with his other attacks at low %.

Since you stated in the OP that these matches took place before you read up on here, I'm going to assume you already know a bit more about using Greninja and some of his techs like using Up-B to gimp and some of the neat things you can do with Shadow Sneak.

Anyways, hope that helps. If you want any practice, I'll be glad to help

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 14, 2014

TehSharpie said:
I haven't watched all of the videos yet but I've noticed that you tend to use rolling as your main form of ground transportation. Try using Greninja's running speed to create more mobility as he is one of the faster characters in this game. Rolling can become a very predictable habit that can be punished easily once your opponent catches on. You might also want to try using more of his aerial and grab game (especially uthrow, uair, and nair). Greninja's tilts are pretty solid as well and can chain really well with his other attacks at low %.

Since you stated in the OP that these matches took place before you read up on here, I'm going to assume you already know a bit more about using Greninja and some of his techs like using Up-B to gimp and some of the neat things you can do with Shadow Sneak.

Anyways, hope that helps. If you want any practice, I'll be glad to help

Ah, yes. Rolling. I really got to break that habit. I really do overuse it sometimes.

Oh yes! Greninja's aerial game is great! Really like going for an up throw and then following up with a uair. Not too good with incorporating the nair though. :/

Ooooh. Tilts. I should really use those more!

Yep! Know about the gimping with the up special.

I already know about how you can use the shadow sneak right after landing from a down aerial.

Is using shadow sneak to aid in horizontal recovery a good tactic? Cause I use that sometimes. If someone's standing too close to an edge, I can get a free hit in and Greninja's recovery is good enough for me to still get back up and grab the ledge.

Demoloque · Oct 14, 2014

Dat shadow sneak recover on R.O.B.'s stupid robot face was awesome.
It's a good tactic but don't overuse it, brother. It gets predictable and easy to punish 'cause of the end lag.

Have you watched Niotono using Greninja?
Try to analyse his approaches. He short hop fast falls into the nair and sometimes fair.
It's a really good approach and will make you love the nair.
Also gimping with hydro pump is sooo good. Not only you can protect the ledge but you can also straight KO with this move. If the adversary is damaged enough and moving upwards, you can add to his momentum with the hydro pump and send him flying off the top of the stage.
And ledge guarding is insane with it. To the point that if you throw a Little Mac barely off the stage there's no comeback.

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 14, 2014

Demoloque said:
Dat shadow sneak recover on R.O.B.'s stupid robot face was awesome.
It's a good tactic but don't overuse it, brother. It gets predictable and easy to punish 'cause of the end lag.

Have you watched Niotono using Greninja?
Try to analyse his approaches. He short hop fast falls into the nair and sometimes fair.
It's a really good approach and will make you love the nair.
Also gimping with hydro pump is sooo good. Not only you can protect the ledge but you can also straight KO with this move. If the adversary is damaged enough and moving upwards, you can add to his momentum with the hydro pump and send him flying off the top of the stage.
And ledge guarding is insane with it. To the point that if you throw a Little Mac barely off the stage there's no comeback.

So much research to do.

I really gotta practice my gimping skills with hydro pump. Done it a few times, but I'm not too good with it.

I got some cool kid mcswaggin gimps using hydro pump against friends today.
there's some bad plays in there though.... bluhh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-2L2Em00i8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_xpqbupJpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkhCNNFP_8

Appdude · Oct 14, 2014

elusiveTranscendent said:
So much research to do.

I really gotta practice my gimping skills with hydro pump. Done it a few times, but I'm not too good with it.

Ya....I want the hydro gimps too.....

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 14, 2014

Appdude said:
Ya....I want the hydro gimps too.....

Hey, practice makes perfect. I mean, I made a thread just so I could even get more feedback. ;P You can do it.

~~Erm. Mobile messed up. How do I delete a post?~~

Aah. Sorry for the ~~double-post~~ triple-post (gosh darn it, mobile... q.q), but editing my previous post is taking a really long time to load on mobile. Got some new, good replays, but it's like 2:30AM, so I'll record them and post'em later. Ya know. After I sleep and do school things.

Starting to get decent at the short hop nair, still needs more practice. Same with the hydro pump gimping. It'd probably help if I posted the replays now, but it's sooo late. .—.

@Shaya Sorry to be a bother, but either I'm blind and can't find how to, or I can't delete posts.. .-. You're like the only moderator I'm know, so would you be able to just get rid of that extra post for me? Or maybe merge them? I don't know what else to do. :/

Anyway, here are the aforementioned videos. Yeaaah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_MT7mCH3yA Vs Peach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmzS5U_mX0 Vs Sheik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO5EQqBL8Ig Vs Capt. Falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQXno1yvq7A Vs Dr. Mario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZmuQV2qpY Vs Dr. Mario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiXO92bDHsE Vs Dr. Mario

Appdude · Oct 15, 2014

Ok, I have a basic hydro pump gimping method for all y'all faces

Step 1: Smash attack your opponent far enough him/her to need to use a recovery move.

Step 2: Just before thier recovery move has started, jump out at them so that you are horizontal with them in the air, and hydro pump back to the stage.

OR Step 2 1/2: Just AFTER thier recovery move has started, jump out at them so that you are horizontal with them in the air, and hydro pump back to the stage.

REMEMBER: The closer you are to them, the more the push hydro pump does to your opponent.

Gunla · Oct 15, 2014

@

elusiveTranscendent
I got it for ya! (as in the quad-posts)

Also, as it's been said before, but Greninja's speed is very effective, and much better in my opinion than rolling.

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 17, 2014

Well, got some more videos. Yippee.

I learned how to do the nifty SS trick that teleports you down.

Got three fights versus my friend playing Rosalina:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRW4-qiJz18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ze7EtqBocQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ4aNuLJ8n4

And then a different friend playing Yoshi. I have trouble fighting Yoshis. >3<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIiFyil-TbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QjiT5Vd2yw

Am I still rolling a bit too much? :?

Appdude · Oct 17, 2014

Whoa, wait what?? You can use shadow sneak to teleport DOWN? When you are in the air?? How you do this??

Spirst · Oct 17, 2014

Appdude said:
Whoa, wait what?? You can use shadow sneak to teleport DOWN? When you are in the air?? How you do this??

When you're in the air falling, ready your shadow sneak and tap down once. Your falling speed will be slowed. Upon reappearance, you'll teleport downwards from the air onto the ground upon where the shadow is as opposed to reappearing in the air still.

elusiveTranscendent · Oct 19, 2014

So was in a 35 person tourney and saved some replays from it. Placed 16th. Not bad for my first time being in anything of that matter, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMYHxcqc6Yc Vs Dark Pit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThfNzekAVYg Vs Ness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf5kuG91jg0 Vs ZSS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then here are some For Glory videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM059hrRjbg Vs Sheik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGXV4Xbtv_s Vs Samus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76fDSm4shPk Vs Mega Man

I neeed toooo geeet betterrrrrrrrrr.

Chiroz · Oct 19, 2014

Appdude said:
Ok, I have a basic hydro pump gimping method for all y'all faces

Step 1: Smash attack your opponent far enough him/her to need to use a recovery move.

Step 2: Just before thier recovery move has started, jump out at them so that you are horizontal with them in the air, and hydro pump back to the stage.

OR Step 2 1/2: Just AFTER thier recovery move has started, jump out at them so that you are horizontal with them in the air, and hydro pump back to the stage.

REMEMBER: The closer you are to them, the more the push hydro pump does to your opponent.

Actually after many tests I can confirm this is completely wrong. Hydro Pump cares not for distance or angle or even weight. The only thing that changes Hydro Pump distance is your opponents %.

So why then do people sometimes go flying upwards or get pushed back so much? Well there's 2 reasons.

1. Hydro Pulp throws 4 pumps and each one pushes the same. If you are able to hit a person with more than 1 pump then you instantly push them back more than you would have, so in a sense angle and distance do matter, although not really. (Most of the time you will hit people with 1-2 pumps whether you angle correctly or don't angle it, whether you hit from point blank or from max distance. Hitting with 3 pumps is virtually impossible unless you do some weird zig-zag pattern and hitting with all 4 pumps is something I have never done yet. A way to tell how many Pumps you hit with is checking the damage it did, HP does 2% damage per pump).

2. Hydro Pump unlike other moves just adds a velocity to your current velocity instead of replacing your current velocity. Hydro Pump will always add this velocity upwards and away from Greninja, always. The difference is that if your current velocity is against Greninja's push then you will obviously be pushed much less than if it was neutral or say against the push. This is why people who are Jumping or Up-Bing will be pushed extremely high as they already have a velocity upwards, while fast fallers like Fox who are fast falling when hit by Hydro Pump will barely even move an inch vertically.

Remember though that Hydro Pump Push does scale with damage %. It kills any character from the center of FD at around 290%, so win your sudden deaths with a surprise pump at any time, at any location, in any stage for extra giggles.

KEWB · Oct 22, 2014

Raykz said:
Remember though that Hydro Pump Push does scale with damage %. It kills any character from the center of FD at around 290%, so win your sudden deaths with a surprise pump at any time, at any location, in any stage for extra giggles.

That...is freaking amazing. I have to try that next time I have an opportunity. The trolling potential is fantastic. :D

Appdude · Oct 24, 2014

Raykz said:
Actually after many tests I can confirm this is completely wrong. Hydro Pump cares not for distance or angle or even weight. The only thing that changes Hydro Pump distance is your opponents %.

So why then do people sometimes go flying upwards or get pushed back so much? Well there's 2 reasons.

1. Hydro Pulp throws 4 pumps and each one pushes the same. If you are able to hit a person with more than 1 pump then you instantly push them back more than you would have, so in a sense angle and distance do matter, although not really. (Most of the time you will hit people with 1-2 pumps whether you angle correctly or don't angle it, whether you hit from point blank or from max distance. Hitting with 3 pumps is virtually impossible unless you do some weird zig-zag pattern and hitting with all 4 pumps is something I have never done yet. A way to tell how many Pumps you hit with is checking the damage it did, HP does 2% damage per pump).

2. Hydro Pump unlike other moves just adds a velocity to your current velocity instead of replacing your current velocity. Hydro Pump will always add this velocity upwards and away from Greninja, always. The difference is that if your current velocity is against Greninja's push then you will obviously be pushed much less than if it was neutral or say against the push. This is why people who are Jumping or Up-Bing will be pushed extremely high as they already have a velocity upwards, while fast fallers like Fox who are fast falling when hit by Hydro Pump will barely even move an inch vertically.

Remember though that Hydro Pump Push does scale with damage %. It kills any character from the center of FD at around 290%, so win your sudden deaths with a surprise pump at any time, at any location, in any stage for extra giggles.

ok, thanks for debunking my theory. Seriously. Thanks. Knowledge is power.

Chiroz · Oct 24, 2014

Appdude said:
ok, thanks for debunking my theory. Seriously. Thanks. Knowledge is power.

No problem, I thought the same as you and I discovered that it was otherwise because I was testing if % affected pushback, then I noticed something strange, decided to test further and discovered everything I wrote down.

DrTechnoBabel · Oct 31, 2014

Raykz said:
Remember though that Hydro Pump Push does scale with damage %. It kills any character from the center of FD at around 290%, so win your sudden deaths with a surprise pump at any time, at any location, in any stage for extra giggles.

Oh man... if only I knew that 10 minutes ago. I literally just lost a SD as Greninja, and I didn't even think about trying that.

Sosuke · Oct 31, 2014

it doesn't actually do that, at least from what i've seen

TryHardOliver · Nov 1, 2014

Just check some videos and practice daily. Don't know what more I can tell you

Spirst · Nov 1, 2014

Sosuke said:
it doesn't actually do that, at least from what i've seen

This is correct. I've tested it on Sheik, Little Mac, and Jigglypuff. None of them actually get KO'd at the percent and the latter doesn't get KO'd with this until about 660%.

Appdude · Nov 7, 2014

Spirst said:
This is correct. I've tested it on Sheik, Little Mac, and Jigglypuff. None of them actually get KO'd at the percent and the latter doesn't get KO'd with this until about 660%.

Darn. So hydro pump won't help in sudden death? (not sure, haven't tested it)

Spirst · Nov 7, 2014

Appdude said:
Darn. So hydro pump won't help in sudden death? (not sure, haven't tested it)

It'll still send them a good distance, but it won't KO them much of the time from anywhere, no.

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