unlistedNiL
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
- Messages
- 56
hello everyone, I'm new to these forums so let me start off by saying forgive me if this has been talked about before, but I just really love Isaac and Golden Sun 1. One of my favorite GBA games ever. I'm not sure if everyone here was upset as I was when he was released as just an assist trophy in Brawl. Anyway, this is a work in progress so please give me feed back. I really am at a standstill for his A moves mostly, post what you think would fit well. If you aren't familiar with Golden Sun then you probably won't find this interesting or know what I'm talking about.
Overview:
Move: can be worked into isaac as a tethering grab. Can be a projectile special option.
Quake: can be a vA input or a special (with the potential side-effect of burying an opponent or flipping)
Ragnarok: can be a dair, direct-able recovery, or another special attack, either a projectile (too true to the game) or a melee lunge/fall.
Titan blade: very iconic attack,similar animation to Ragnarok. maybe this can be Ragnarok's air option if its a projectile.
Spire: can be a dair, a special projectile, or even a smash. I like PSAs version (except too much distance) spiking with a spike- genius.
Rockfall; extremely similar to spire, can be a smash or delayed projectile (similar to ivysaur's razor leaf)
Retreat: the only viable option this could be is his recovery. If PSA's recovery is this, it needs a visual revamp.
Growth/Thorns: potential smash or special option. I see it as a combo extender more than anything.
Gaia: could be a recovery, smash or special. i like PSA's version except for the coloring (red blast please)
Cure: notable since Isaac was one of your 2 major healers. special option.
Flint/dijiin: with 7 different dijiin (3 attack 4 support) there is a lot of options they dijiin can contribute. I honestly seen Isaac blocking with a dijiin. Quartz can even be a recovery since it had such a high vertical animation. But Flint is the first and one of the strongest dijiin you can get in the same. very iconic. should be a smash or a special option with good distance.
Venus: the first summon Isaac learns. Notable if a dijiin/summon system is installed.
Judgement: the end all, be all attack. Should be his final smash but if a dijiin system is installed maybe a weaker version of judgement can be an option.
Isaac character layout:
Land Smash Attacks to gain PP. All b moves can be charged but it consumes more PP, the attack does more damage and a bigger AoE. 2 PP can be held and specials (B) can be charged up to 2 times meaning Isaac can charge a special to the next level, 2 times, or can spend all 2 points on one larger, longer, charge attack. Since he is an Earth/venus Adept he should be best on the ground. Its been mentioned that the dev's want to throw in punches even tho Isaac is a swordsman but i dont think he should have many.
smash > A: flint (strongest smash in distance, lunge for opponent and swing sword with djinn might)
smash ^ A: sap (restores some life, weakest smash in distance, swing sword vertically with djinn might)
smash V A: bane (fastest smash, chance of DoT, best smash in damage, short range, one sided attack, swing sword with djinn might)
Dash >> A: vorpal slash (released by the elven rapier, good distance and hitbox, often lands behind opponent, the PSA brawl version looks very slow and punishing to use with a lot of finishing lag frames)
neutral A: punch, slash, vertical slash, (sends target up, combos into magic)
^ A: ???
V A: quake (stabs ground or slam fist onto ground, creates a very small tremor, flips opponent)
> A: sword swing
Neutral air A: magic punch or kick or sword spin (PSA has a magic punch that looks good idk what the input is)
^ air A: sword swing?
V air A: spire (isaac summons a spire beneath him and jumps off it, adds air time, spike potential, spire disappears after isaac jumps, PSA's spire travels too far to be a fair dair but its done perfectly otherwise)
> air A: sword swing?
(back) <air A: Back Stab (Isaac stabs behind him, small hitbox almost like a punch.) (PSA's looks really bad IMHO, super awkward punch tourettes twitch)
neutral b: thorns (spikes out of the ground, combo extender, instantly grabs/hit opponent, good stun frames- cast delay frames if missed, hitbox the since of Isaac, duration short.)
^ b: Retreat (charge to increase distance or unchargable cuz broken, Isaac teleports: disappears and reappears, completely passive no hit box, if the recovery in PSA's 1.1 version is retreat, it should be revamped visually)
V b: Gaia (Isaac summons a blast of magma from the earth beneath him, sends enemy up, PSA did it right, idk what the input is but I very much like the animation tho the color of the blast should be red instead of white)
> b: Ragnarok (isaac summons a sword and slams down with it, center stage finisher potential if charged, good damage, spiking potential and good ledge guard but if its done off the ledge isaac will plummet off stage, delay animation before activation [isaac flips upward then falls], hitbox begins in the air, super armor frames while falling, if hit before fall but after sword is summoned it shatters)
Grab: grab with psy-energy hand if there is PP, if not then he grabs normally. If missed with a psy-energy hand, extended stun frame.
Final Smash- judgement (The one in the PSA release looks a little weak range wise and the color is off)
Isaac layout 2: Psynergy Nonchargable
smash > A: flint
smash ^ A: Sap
smash V A: Bane
Dash >> A: slash
neutral A: punch, slash, vertical slash, (sends target up, combos into magic)
^ A: vertical stab
V A: sweep kick
> A: sword swing
Neutral air A: magic punch or sword spin (PSA has a magic punch that looks good idk what the input is)
^ air A: Backflip kick
V air A: spire (isaac summons a spire beneath him and jumps off it, adds air time, spike potential, spire disappears after isaac jumps, PSA's spire travels too far to be a fair dair but its done perfectly otherwise)
> air A: sword swing
(back) <air A: Back Stab (Isaac stabs behind him, small hitbox almost like a punch.) (PSA's looks really bad IMHO, super awkward punch tourettes twitch)
press A+B to toggle switch
neutral b: move (hold to extend like in PSA)
>b: rockfall
v b: quake
^ b: retreat
neutral b: growth
>b: Ragnarok
v b: Gaia
Grab: tether with psynergy hand.
Isaac Layout 3:
smash > A: Flint (short but powerful and fast)
smash ^ A: Gaia (high vertical, decent width, slow recovery frames)
smash V A: Quake (both sides, slow activation, good range)
Dash >> A: slash
neutral A: punch, slash, vertical slash, (sends target up, combos into magic)
^ A: vertical stab
V A: sweep kick
> A: sword swing
Neutral air A: magic punch or sword spin (PSA has a magic punch that looks good idk what the input is)
^ air A: Backflip kick
V air A: spire (isaac summons a spire beneath him and jumps off it, adds air time, spike potential, spire disappears after isaac jumps, PSA's spire travels too far to be a fair dair but its done perfectly otherwise)
> air A: sword swing
(back) <air A: Back Stab (Isaac stabs behind him, small hitbox almost like a punch.) (PSA's looks really bad IMHO, super awkward punch tourettes twitch)
neutral b: Ragnarok (projectile, sword is summoned and falls)
neutral b (air): Titan Blade (Isaac summons a giant blade beneath him)
>b: move
vb: Growth (both sides, holds opponent in place briefly)
^ b: retreat
A+B: uses dijiin point, summons Venus (a large hit box erratically circles Isaac briefly, dijiin points can only be obtained by landing the side smash)
grab- tether with psynergy hand.
*More Systems and Alternative Attacks:
-3 potential systems: PP system, djinn/summoning system, or enabling switching of spell selection)
-if Isaac comes out bottom crap tier, he can be buffed with a canon mechanism: give him a final smash after every x smash attacks that connect. this should be a fairly high number, free final smashes should not come around often at all. again, this is only a mechanic that would be used to balance him if needed. This mechanic is the djinn/summon system except
-alternative special: cure (heal 10% damage or something may be broke or useless, only mentioning it because Isaac was a major healer)
-i'm kind of not too big on sap being in the smash list, even tho he was my favorite dijinn. on paper his effect seems so boring. but he had no other attacking dijinn the other 4 were support.
-other > b: rockfall (3 rocks fall in order, sends opponent down, good ledge guard w/ spike potential, activation delay)
-alternative up B Gaia (Isaac is propelled upward with lava and rock, charging mid-air stops momentum, can be a center stage finisher if charged, very punishing if missed)
-alternative up B again: isaac summons a rock and jumps off it (just like sonic's recovery)
-3rd alternative up B: Vines (charge to increase distance only, grabs ledge or opponent)
-4th alternative up B: Ragnarok (instead of slamming down, isaac summons a sword big and dashes in a chosen direction)
-alternative ^ smash ^: Rockfall (a rock above Isaac splits in two slamming next to him on both sides)
-Since its already been implemented and i like it, i will list Alternative special: psy-energy push (his assist trophy attack, can be held for further distance)
-alternative V b: quake (if this is used for a special an alternative down A needs to be agreed on, low damage, low stun frames, quick activation, if charged it buries opponent longer duration and hitbox for longer charge, i think the hitbox should be a rolls distance at full charge, )
-alternative special: spire (isaac summons and shoots a spire, can be aimed)
-For clarification Isaacs PP or dijiin system will work like Lucario's aura system. IDK what it should be exactly but definitely something involving Isaac glowing
-give me your feed back or suggestions. anything is appreciated, thanks.
Overview:
Move: can be worked into isaac as a tethering grab. Can be a projectile special option.
Quake: can be a vA input or a special (with the potential side-effect of burying an opponent or flipping)
Ragnarok: can be a dair, direct-able recovery, or another special attack, either a projectile (too true to the game) or a melee lunge/fall.
Titan blade: very iconic attack,similar animation to Ragnarok. maybe this can be Ragnarok's air option if its a projectile.
Spire: can be a dair, a special projectile, or even a smash. I like PSAs version (except too much distance) spiking with a spike- genius.
Rockfall; extremely similar to spire, can be a smash or delayed projectile (similar to ivysaur's razor leaf)
Retreat: the only viable option this could be is his recovery. If PSA's recovery is this, it needs a visual revamp.
Growth/Thorns: potential smash or special option. I see it as a combo extender more than anything.
Gaia: could be a recovery, smash or special. i like PSA's version except for the coloring (red blast please)
Cure: notable since Isaac was one of your 2 major healers. special option.
Flint/dijiin: with 7 different dijiin (3 attack 4 support) there is a lot of options they dijiin can contribute. I honestly seen Isaac blocking with a dijiin. Quartz can even be a recovery since it had such a high vertical animation. But Flint is the first and one of the strongest dijiin you can get in the same. very iconic. should be a smash or a special option with good distance.
Venus: the first summon Isaac learns. Notable if a dijiin/summon system is installed.
Judgement: the end all, be all attack. Should be his final smash but if a dijiin system is installed maybe a weaker version of judgement can be an option.
Isaac character layout:
Land Smash Attacks to gain PP. All b moves can be charged but it consumes more PP, the attack does more damage and a bigger AoE. 2 PP can be held and specials (B) can be charged up to 2 times meaning Isaac can charge a special to the next level, 2 times, or can spend all 2 points on one larger, longer, charge attack. Since he is an Earth/venus Adept he should be best on the ground. Its been mentioned that the dev's want to throw in punches even tho Isaac is a swordsman but i dont think he should have many.
smash > A: flint (strongest smash in distance, lunge for opponent and swing sword with djinn might)
smash ^ A: sap (restores some life, weakest smash in distance, swing sword vertically with djinn might)
smash V A: bane (fastest smash, chance of DoT, best smash in damage, short range, one sided attack, swing sword with djinn might)
Dash >> A: vorpal slash (released by the elven rapier, good distance and hitbox, often lands behind opponent, the PSA brawl version looks very slow and punishing to use with a lot of finishing lag frames)
neutral A: punch, slash, vertical slash, (sends target up, combos into magic)
^ A: ???
V A: quake (stabs ground or slam fist onto ground, creates a very small tremor, flips opponent)
> A: sword swing
Neutral air A: magic punch or kick or sword spin (PSA has a magic punch that looks good idk what the input is)
^ air A: sword swing?
V air A: spire (isaac summons a spire beneath him and jumps off it, adds air time, spike potential, spire disappears after isaac jumps, PSA's spire travels too far to be a fair dair but its done perfectly otherwise)
> air A: sword swing?
(back) <air A: Back Stab (Isaac stabs behind him, small hitbox almost like a punch.) (PSA's looks really bad IMHO, super awkward punch tourettes twitch)
neutral b: thorns (spikes out of the ground, combo extender, instantly grabs/hit opponent, good stun frames- cast delay frames if missed, hitbox the since of Isaac, duration short.)
^ b: Retreat (charge to increase distance or unchargable cuz broken, Isaac teleports: disappears and reappears, completely passive no hit box, if the recovery in PSA's 1.1 version is retreat, it should be revamped visually)
V b: Gaia (Isaac summons a blast of magma from the earth beneath him, sends enemy up, PSA did it right, idk what the input is but I very much like the animation tho the color of the blast should be red instead of white)
> b: Ragnarok (isaac summons a sword and slams down with it, center stage finisher potential if charged, good damage, spiking potential and good ledge guard but if its done off the ledge isaac will plummet off stage, delay animation before activation [isaac flips upward then falls], hitbox begins in the air, super armor frames while falling, if hit before fall but after sword is summoned it shatters)
Grab: grab with psy-energy hand if there is PP, if not then he grabs normally. If missed with a psy-energy hand, extended stun frame.
Final Smash- judgement (The one in the PSA release looks a little weak range wise and the color is off)
Isaac layout 2: Psynergy Nonchargable
smash > A: flint
smash ^ A: Sap
smash V A: Bane
Dash >> A: slash
neutral A: punch, slash, vertical slash, (sends target up, combos into magic)
^ A: vertical stab
V A: sweep kick
> A: sword swing
Neutral air A: magic punch or sword spin (PSA has a magic punch that looks good idk what the input is)
^ air A: Backflip kick
V air A: spire (isaac summons a spire beneath him and jumps off it, adds air time, spike potential, spire disappears after isaac jumps, PSA's spire travels too far to be a fair dair but its done perfectly otherwise)
> air A: sword swing
(back) <air A: Back Stab (Isaac stabs behind him, small hitbox almost like a punch.) (PSA's looks really bad IMHO, super awkward punch tourettes twitch)
press A+B to toggle switch
neutral b: move (hold to extend like in PSA)
>b: rockfall
v b: quake
^ b: retreat
neutral b: growth
>b: Ragnarok
v b: Gaia
Grab: tether with psynergy hand.
Isaac Layout 3:
smash > A: Flint (short but powerful and fast)
smash ^ A: Gaia (high vertical, decent width, slow recovery frames)
smash V A: Quake (both sides, slow activation, good range)
Dash >> A: slash
neutral A: punch, slash, vertical slash, (sends target up, combos into magic)
^ A: vertical stab
V A: sweep kick
> A: sword swing
Neutral air A: magic punch or sword spin (PSA has a magic punch that looks good idk what the input is)
^ air A: Backflip kick
V air A: spire (isaac summons a spire beneath him and jumps off it, adds air time, spike potential, spire disappears after isaac jumps, PSA's spire travels too far to be a fair dair but its done perfectly otherwise)
> air A: sword swing
(back) <air A: Back Stab (Isaac stabs behind him, small hitbox almost like a punch.) (PSA's looks really bad IMHO, super awkward punch tourettes twitch)
neutral b: Ragnarok (projectile, sword is summoned and falls)
neutral b (air): Titan Blade (Isaac summons a giant blade beneath him)
>b: move
vb: Growth (both sides, holds opponent in place briefly)
^ b: retreat
A+B: uses dijiin point, summons Venus (a large hit box erratically circles Isaac briefly, dijiin points can only be obtained by landing the side smash)
grab- tether with psynergy hand.
*More Systems and Alternative Attacks:
-3 potential systems: PP system, djinn/summoning system, or enabling switching of spell selection)
-if Isaac comes out bottom crap tier, he can be buffed with a canon mechanism: give him a final smash after every x smash attacks that connect. this should be a fairly high number, free final smashes should not come around often at all. again, this is only a mechanic that would be used to balance him if needed. This mechanic is the djinn/summon system except
-alternative special: cure (heal 10% damage or something may be broke or useless, only mentioning it because Isaac was a major healer)
-i'm kind of not too big on sap being in the smash list, even tho he was my favorite dijinn. on paper his effect seems so boring. but he had no other attacking dijinn the other 4 were support.
-other > b: rockfall (3 rocks fall in order, sends opponent down, good ledge guard w/ spike potential, activation delay)
-alternative up B Gaia (Isaac is propelled upward with lava and rock, charging mid-air stops momentum, can be a center stage finisher if charged, very punishing if missed)
-alternative up B again: isaac summons a rock and jumps off it (just like sonic's recovery)
-3rd alternative up B: Vines (charge to increase distance only, grabs ledge or opponent)
-4th alternative up B: Ragnarok (instead of slamming down, isaac summons a sword big and dashes in a chosen direction)
-alternative ^ smash ^: Rockfall (a rock above Isaac splits in two slamming next to him on both sides)
-Since its already been implemented and i like it, i will list Alternative special: psy-energy push (his assist trophy attack, can be held for further distance)
-alternative V b: quake (if this is used for a special an alternative down A needs to be agreed on, low damage, low stun frames, quick activation, if charged it buries opponent longer duration and hitbox for longer charge, i think the hitbox should be a rolls distance at full charge, )
-alternative special: spire (isaac summons and shoots a spire, can be aimed)
-For clarification Isaacs PP or dijiin system will work like Lucario's aura system. IDK what it should be exactly but definitely something involving Isaac glowing
-give me your feed back or suggestions. anything is appreciated, thanks.
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