Is there anything left to discover with Ganon?

[PaperstSoapCo]

Well? Melee is fun but its stale.

 

[Divinokage]

Learn edge cancel pressure.

 

[BTmoney]

Not to "discover" but perfect wavelands and WD's go a long way

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Yes

One of the biggest things I've discovered is how playing PM makes Ganon sooo much better.

 

[Renth]

Agreed .

 

[Renth]

And **** PM everything is handed to you nothing to discover at all.

 

[-ACE-]

There probably isn't a whole lot left to discover, but there are tons of techniques that people still need to master.

 

[WINK ;)]

And **** PM everything is handed to you nothing to discover at all.

I play P:M... But you are right. Hahaha. I just enjoy it some because its a nice change of pace. But you are right... you can't really discover much in it.... Mechanics are extremely forgiving....

 

[-ACE-]

fun thing: on BF, if you don't waste a single frame, you can wavedash offstage dj and waveland onto the lower platform. You have to be holding forward ASAP after the wd, jump as soon as possible, and waveland at the peak of the jump. You can also do it out of a RLD. It's pretty quick.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

fun thing: on BF, if you don't waste a single frame, you can wavedash offstage dj and waveland onto the lower platform. You have to be holding forward ASAP after the wd, jump as soon as possible, and waveland at the peak of the jump. You can also do it out of a RLD. It's pretty quick.

hold up. how can you dj after wavedashing off-stage? won't you only get one jump after that?

 

[-ACE-]

That's correct! You have to be holding forward the whole time, starting mid-wavedash until you successfully waveland. I did it in front of Dennis (RockCrock) once and he said he had never seen it before, so maybe it isn't well known. I discovered it about 3 years ago, but never really used it because I wasn't good enough to get it consistently in tournament. If someone did master it though, it's a great tool. Just like hax's falcon's rld, dj, wl onto platform shenanigans.

 

[WINK ;)]

That's correct! You have to be holding forward the whole time, starting mid-wavedash until you successfully waveland. I did it in front of Dennis (RockCrock) once and he said he had never seen it before, so maybe it isn't well known. I discovered it about 3 years ago, but never really used it because I wasn't good enough to get it consistently in tournament. If someone did master it though, it's a great tool. Just like hax's falcon's rld, dj, wl onto platform shenanigans.

Im gonna have to try this out!

 

[X WaNtEd X]

That's correct! You have to be holding forward the whole time, starting mid-wavedash until you successfully waveland. I did it in front of Dennis (RockCrock) once and he said he had never seen it before, so maybe it isn't well known. I discovered it about 3 years ago, but never really used it because I wasn't good enough to get it consistently in tournament. If someone did master it though, it's a great tool. Just like hax's falcon's rld, dj, wl onto platform shenanigans.

but if you dj and hold forward the whole time, won't that affect your di and force you farther off stage rather than allowing you to waveland off of a platform? or is it just that you have to be extremely fast so as to hit the platform before your di carries you out too far?

 

[-ACE-]

You'd be facing the other way. I figured that was obvious since I me ruined doing it from a RLD. Go like you're about to wavedash to the ledge, but the frame you become airborne you must jump. Start holding forward (the direction Ganon is facing, toward the stage) as soon as soon as you wavedash initially. *** it I'm posting a video

 

[-ACE-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNowu9dQE6Y#t=0m21s

waveland at end

 

[Kadano]

Did you guys know that Ganondorf can retain more actionable ledge intangibility than Fox? 18 frames vs. 16 frames, assuming perfect execution for both.
I would be surprised if Magus420 hadn’t explained this in full detail 8 years ago, but whatever.

Edit:

 

[X WaNtEd X]

woah noice. will practice

 

[X WaNtEd X]

-snip-

I also like to do that with dsmash and side b.

 

[WINK ;)]

Ahhh! I is learning more and more every day

 

[WINK ;)]

Did you guys know that Ganondorf can retain more actionable ledge intangibility than Fox? 18 frames vs. 16 frames, assuming perfect execution for both.
I would be surprised if Magus420 hadn’t explained this in full detail 8 years ago, but whatever.

Edit:

****ing badass!

 

[-ACE-]

invincible jab is great. If you really get the timing down, grab is invincible too (in this video it would have been).

 

[Kadano]

Down-B as well.

 

[WINK ;)]

Down-B as well.

Wouldn't the frames run out as soon as your start the kick though since its not as fast as the jab?

 

[Kadano]

Whenever Ganon’s hurtboxes are blue, that means he still has intangibility left. Frames 14-18 have the hitboxes active and are still intangible.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The only problem is if your opponent doesn't get hit by these attacks (except for jab) they can punish you during the lag you'll experience, at which point your invincibility will be gone. Can you land a uair with invincibility? I do every so often but I'm not sure if it's invincibility or not. If so, I think that would often be a better option because you can l-cancel it into something else immediately so you can cover yourself after the invincibility wears off.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kadano can Ganon WD FF to the edge after he does that ledge-hop perfect-landing and still be fully invulnerable?

 

[Kadano]

Yes, he can, but only if he grabbed the ledge from an up-B before. This is also necessary to get as much actionable intangibility as shown in the two gifs.
If you grab from a double jump instead, you only have 10 frames instead of 18. Still enough for jab, dtilt and ftilt, though.

 

[-ACE-]

Who says you can't sh uair and waveland afterward?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=854sLMQL4do&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[WINK ;)]

Whenever Ganon’s hitboxes are blue, that means he still has intangibility left. Frames 14-18 have the hitboxes active and are still intangible.

Ahh! I see. Thanks. I would try an up air if possible.

 

[DarkMagicX2]

This is probably old news, but I accidentally found out yesterday that you can Nair out of a midair jump from ledge. I thought you could only do it with Uair. I was wondering if anybody has explored the possibilities of this. I remember commentators mentioning that the first hit of Ganondorf's Nair was good for setting up combos, so maybe it could be used to start a small string on an opponent that decides to be too close to the edge when you recover? Pretty situational, I admit. But It's something.

 

[tm]

I noticed that as well, although it's even more difficult while being more situational. Something to keep in mind though (nair can combo into fair against spacies at high % with inward DI, and maybe some other characters at particular %s/DI)

Yes, he can, but only if he grabbed the ledge from an up-B before. This is also necessary to get as much actionable intangibility as shown in the two gifs.
If you grab from a double jump instead, you only have 10 frames instead of 18. Still enough for jab, dtilt and ftilt, though.

Let me get this straight, you get 8 more frames of invincibility if you grab ledge from upB as opposed to falling / jumping to it? How did I never know this

 

[FrozenLight]

This might be already known, but if you let go of the edge and rejump in the tact of 97,3 bpm (let go on frame 1, rejump early enough, let go again on frame 38) you stay permanently invincible. (Frameperfect)

 

[-ACE-]

This might be already known, but if you let go of the edge and rejump in the tact of 97,3 bpm (let go on frame 1, rejump early enough, let go again on frame 38) you stay permanently invincible. (Frameperfect)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDs-lPmIUec#t=1m25s

 

[FrozenLight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDs-lPmIUec#t=1m25s

WOW, I'm so far behind, but well, here's the BPM for everybody who didn't know :D

 

[-ACE-]

Haha hell yeah. ledgedrop dj regrab is invincible, RLD fastfall is invincible, so is ledgehop jab, ledghop grab, and ledgedash jab.