Is it too much to ask for an option for auto L-cancelling?

[JediLink]

Okay, so we've had this L-cancelling debate a million times and I really don't want to get into it again, but the point is that there are clearly two sides. There are people who like the idea of L-cancelling, and there a people who find it to be completely pointless (which is the camp I'm in as you've probably guessed).

So, how about we satisfy both sides and just have an option for it? There's already an option called "Input assist", so I don't see what the big deal would be.

 

[Xermo]

There is an option for it; adding the auto l-cancel code to your own gct.

 

[JediLink]

There is an option for it; adding the auto l-cancel code to your own gct.

And suddenly I feel like an idiot for not knowing about this. Thank you for informing me.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I will butt in for a moment to say I used to be in this camp, but then I learned how to L-Cancel and it's a great feeling, haha. So maybe just learn it because it makes you feel moar skilld?

 

[CORY]

what if... guys, guys, what if...

there was an option to use auto lcancel, and it worked like lcancelling now. but.... keeping your manual lcancel on, what if- guys, seriously, what if... that would let you have smash64 zero lag lcancels? guys? eh?

 

[Phaiyte]

what if... guys, guys, what if...

there was an option to use auto lcancel, and it worked like lcancelling now. but.... keeping your manual lcancel on, what if- guys, seriously, what if... that would let you have smash64 zero lag lcancels? guys? eh?

A whole new meaning to Ganondorf's shffl stomps

 

[JediLink]

I will butt in for a moment to say I used to be in this camp, but then I learned how to L-Cancel and it's a great feeling, haha. So maybe just learn it because it makes you feel moar skilld?

Ganon stomping is a great feeling. Tippered f-smash is a great feeling. Kneeing is a great feeling. With all of these, you hear the empowering sound effect as it connects, you hear your opponent's character wail in pain, and then you see that glorious coloured blast indicating a KO.

With L-cancelling, you see... your character breifly flash white. Hey, if that's what floats your boat, then awesome, but I personally think that's something I can live without.

Also, I detest how the go-to assumption for why people don't like L-cancelling just because they can't do it. That's nowhere close to true. Many top players (e.g. Mew2King) have spoken out against L-cancelling in the past. Try telling them they just need to get better.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

There is an option for it; adding the auto l-cancel code to your own gct.

And exactly where would anyone not in the know of that even find the code for it, let alone the proper tools to do so?

Just stating that it can done isn't exactly enough for some people.

 

[Xinc]

what if... guys, guys, what if...

there was an option to use auto lcancel, and it worked like lcancelling now. but.... keeping your manual lcancel on, what if- guys, seriously, what if... that would let you have smash64 zero lag lcancels? guys? eh?

Mind blown.

 

[Bleck]

Yes, yes it is.

 

[JediLink]

And exactly where would anyone not in the know of that even find the code for it, let alone the proper tools to do so?

That's why we have Google, good sir. Of course, providing a link and/or instructions would have been the nice thing to do, but I was able to find the proper information for myself from a Reddit thread so it's all good.

Anyway, I've been using the auto L-cancel code and it's hella awesome. Once Smash 4 hits I'll be able to play both games without having to adjust to L-cancelling/not L-cancelling every time I switch (that is, assuming that Smash 4 isn't so godlike/terrible that I'll always/never play it). The only problem would be if I ever go back to Melee from Project M. Then I'd definitely have to get used to L-cancelling again.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

That's why we have Google, good sir. Of course, providing a link and/or instructions would have been the nice thing to do, but I was able to find the proper information for myself from a Reddit thread so it's all good.

Anyway, I've been using the auto L-cancel code and it's hella awesome. Once Smash 4 hits I'll be able to play both games without having to adjust to L-cancelling/not L-cancelling every time I switch (that is, assuming that Smash 4 isn't so godlike/terrible that I'll always/never play it). The only problem would be if I ever go back to Melee from Project M. Then I'd definitely have to get used to L-cancelling again.

Well of course we can, but some others aren't going to think that far or will...somehow end up asking "How do I Google?" cause they can't find it. XD

I just think it's always better to consider both "sides". That's all I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Rikana]

Anyway, I've been using the auto L-cancel code and it's hella awesome. Once Smash 4 hits I'll be able to play both games without having to adjust to L-cancelling/not L-cancelling every time I switch (that is, assuming that Smash 4 isn't so godlike/terrible that I'll always/never play it). The only problem would be if I ever go back to Melee from Project M. Then I'd definitely have to get used to L-cancelling again.

You're doing it wrong if you want to practice auto Lcancel for smash4. What you want is no cancel at all; with all landing lag intact. Smash4 won't have auto Lcancel from the looks of it.

 

[JediLink]

Well of course we can, but some others aren't going to think that far or will...somehow end up asking "How do I Google?" cause they can't find it. XD

I just think it's always better to consider both "sides". That's all I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well, maybe you are right. I often like to believe that everyone is capable of doing X (where is some kind of everyday activity) but there are always people who can and people who can't, regardless of what X is.

You're doing it wrong if you want to practice auto Lcancel for smash4. What you want is no cancel at all; with all landing lag intact. Smash4 won't have auto Lcancel from the looks of it.

Well I'm assuming that Smash 4 is going to have vastly different hitboxes/frame data/etc, so I'm not expecting any knowledge of combos or anything to carry over anyway. It's moreso just the muscle memory of having to press R vs not having to press R.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I always spotdodge when I hit the ground in Brawl Minus after an aerial. Woo muscle memory.

I was just sharing my personal feelings on the subject. Tech skill is something I've always struggled with and mastering the SHFFL is something basic that vastly improves your play once perfected. The rewards are immediate, once perfected, contrary to something like wavedashing that you must learn HOW to use even after you learn the inputs consistently.

Besides, the good feeling doesn't come from flashing white. The good feeling comes from being able to act much faster out of landing lag to continue combos that weren't possible before. Get a 4+ hit combo on a character like Ike through SHFFL'ing, QD cancels and good reads and tell me it's not an awesome feeling. Ganon and Marth's love child zipping around stages as fast as Captain Falcon is terrifying.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Well, maybe you are right. I often like to believe that everyone is capable of doing X (where is some kind of everyday activity) but there are always people who can and people who can't, regardless of what X is.


Well I'm assuming that Smash 4 is going to have vastly different hitboxes/frame data/etc, so I'm not expecting any knowledge of combos or anything to carry over anyway. It's moreso just the muscle memory of having to press R vs not having to press R.

It won't. The frame data isn't very different between Melee and Brawl by and large. Hitboxes are pretty lazy in Brawl though.

 

[Phaiyte]

Ganon stomping is a great feeling. Tippered f-smash is a great feeling. Kneeing is a great feeling. With all of these, you hear the empowering sound effect as it connects, you hear your opponent's character wail in pain, and then you see that glorious coloured blast indicating a KO.

With L-cancelling, you see... your character breifly flash white. Hey, if that's what floats your boat, then awesome, but I personally think that's something I can live without.

This analogy is so poor that ducks feed it.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

I do have to say though, an auto l-cancel WOULD be rather fitting as a Training mode option, as a kind of foil for SF4's "always counter hit" option.

 

[Tryst]

In my opinion I think It'd be cool if there was already an option in game that let you choose if you wanted to auto L-cancel. But! If you have it on then you auto L-cancel but it wouldn't do it as fast as normal. So you wouldn't be gaining as much by having it on so you would still want to learn how to do it, but if you can't you could turn in on and not just be slaughtered. Just my little opinion. :3

 

[JediLink]

This analogy is so poor that ducks feed it.

Care to elaborate?

 

[MLGF]

L-Cancelling is satisfying once you're able to consistently do it in a match, that feel good doesn't come from the same source as the knee, it comes from the player feeling rewarded for being able to do something that improves their game.
It consists of giving in some few minutes of your time and getting out a solid grasp on something.

It's not hard or anything, but it's rewarding to do.

 

[Phaiyte]

Care to elaborate?

You're comparing an option that gives you a lot of speed to a ganon stomp and somehow saying the reward isn't rewardy enough? Get out of here with that mess lol

 

[JediLink]

You're comparing an option that gives you a lot of speed to a ganon stomp and somehow saying the reward isn't rewardy enough? Get out of here with that mess lol

Did you read the post I was quoting? Here, let me get it for you again.

I will butt in for a moment to say I used to be in this camp, but then I learned how to L-Cancel and it's a great feeling, haha. So maybe just learn it because it makes you feel moar skilld?

We're talking about game feel. That is, the feel of L-cancelling manually vs. automatically, and I said that I don't care about the "good feeling" you get from doing it manually and would rather have it automatic. Doing something that's difficult but powerful (e.g. Ganon stomp) feels satisfying. L-cancelling doesn't give me that same feeling.

Also, calling L-cancelling an "option" is something of a fallacy. I really didn't want to get into this whole argument again but it seems that it just can't be avoided.

 

[MLGF]

I dunno, when I was eight or so screwing around with Melee, I didn't really care for my L-Cancels and Wavedashes.
I think it's kinda a forbidden fruit, once you know of it, you gotta have it.

Perhaps you could do some sort of self hypnosis to make yourself forget about it so it doesn't matter?
My solutions are ALWAYS practical

 

[Phaiyte]

Did you read the post I was quoting? Here, let me get it for you again.

We're talking about game feel. That is, the feel of L-cancelling manually vs. automatically, and I said that I don't care about the "good feeling" you get from doing it manually and would rather have it automatic. Doing something that's difficult but powerful (e.g. Ganon stomp) feels satisfying. L-cancelling doesn't give me that same feeling.

Also, calling L-cancelling an "option" is something of a fallacy. I really didn't want to get into this whole argument again but it seems that it just can't be avoided.

That doesn't change the post I quoted at all.

 

[JediLink]

That doesn't change the post I quoted at all.

Well in that case, I don't know what the hell you're trying to say.

 

[Phaiyte]

Ganon stomping is a great feeling. Tippered f-smash is a great feeling. Kneeing is a great feeling. With all of these, you hear the empowering sound effect as it connects, you hear your opponent's character wail in pain, and then you see that glorious coloured blast indicating a KO. With L-cancelling, you see... your character breifly flash white. Hey, if that's what floats your boat, then awesome, but I personally think that's something I can live without.

This analogy is so poor that ducks feed it.

 

[Strong Badam]

not gonna happen.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Sure, just ignore my second post where I explain why L-Cancels feel rewarding and it has nothing to do with animation.

Either way, you have your solution.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I really didn't want to get into this whole argument again but it seems that it just can't be avoided.

You didn't want to bring up the argument of whether L-Cancelling should be manual or automatic IN a thread where you constantly talk about how much you hate manual L-Cancelling? The logic is strong with this one.

When you back up and defend your side of the argument you shouldn't expect everyone on the other side of the same argument to not back up and defend their side.

 

[JediLink]

Two quotes

Come on, man. That doesn't achieve anything. You said something vague, I asked you to explain, you did and it still didn't make any sense, I assumed that it was because you didn't read the quote and you misinterpreted my post, you refused to explain any further, and now we've gone in circles.

Sure, just ignore my second post where I explain why L-Cancels feel rewarding and it has nothing to do with animation.
Either way, you have your solution.

Sorry man. I didn't see it before. But, now I've read it and I can understand where you're coming from. I still don't agree though. Also, yes I do and it's great.

EDIT:

You didn't want to bring up the argument of whether L-Cancelling should be manual or automatic IN a thread where you constantly talk about how much you hate manual L-Cancelling? The logic is strong with this one.

Look, I asked for auto L-cancelling, Xermo explained what I had to do, and I said thanks. Thread goal achieved. I was originally thinking of asking for mods to lock the thread but I figured it wouldn't be necessary. Of course, once other people started posting, then discussion starts (as it should on a discussion forum), which naturally devolved into the L-cancelling argument. I admit that I could have refused to participate, but that's not in my nature if you will understand. When people talk to me, I feel inclined to reply.

 

[JediLink]

I have a bad feeling about where this thread is going. Mods, you can lock this thread at your own discretion.

 

[Saito]

L-cancelling is bad and should feel bad.

However, this bad has been integrated into this game for a long time. Getting rid of it or making it automatic will stir up complaints from every direction possible.

I think the Mechanic is bad but I don't dislike it either though.

 

[popsofctown]

Project M needs to add a feature where if you tap L during the last half of the frames of an attack, you do increased damage and knockback. Because that adds another opportunity to gain skill at the game and feel gratified for the effort you put in. For balance reasons they could just require the L tap to get the current effect of the move and reduce the damage for those who don't L-empower their smash attacks.

There is no reason to stop at L cancelling once we realize the kind of depth that can be added to a smash game.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Project M needs to add a feature where if you tap L during the last half of the frames of an attack, you do increased damage and knockback. Because that adds another opportunity to gain skill at the game and feel gratified for the effort you put in. For balance reasons they could just require the L tap to get the current effect of the move and reduce the damage for those who don't L-empower their smash attacks.

There is no reason to stop at L cancelling once we realize the kind of depth that can be added to a smash game.

No.

 

[CORY]

not gonna happen.

what if... guys, guys, what if...

there was an option to use auto lcancel, and it worked like lcancelling now. but.... keeping your manual lcancel on, what if- guys, seriously, what if... that would let you have smash64 zero lag lcancels? guys? eh?

but, but... let's just try it!

 

[Phaiyte]

I do kinda wonder how much the metagame would change if L cancelling reduced aerial landlag by 100% instead of 50. I mean that would automatically make Link and Ganon better by miles with just dair alone.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The balance of the game would literally explode.

Anyway, I think it's abandon thread time. The OP's got what he came for and I see no future for this thread aside from an argument no one wants to have again. Kbye.

 

[arcticfox8]

auto l-cancelling is literally just reduced landing lag across the board
i don't get it

 

[Rikana]

There's no reason to not catch the football when its passed to you. It's just an unneeded tech skill addition that makes the game harder but not actually more strategic in any way, since there's never any instance where not catching the football would be beneficial.

For realsies though, L-cancelling is like having to keep your balance while throwing punches. If you just throw wild, you'll likely throw yourself off center and become vulnerable. If you throw compact and precise, keeping your center of gravity in control, you can move and hit and defend quickly/seamlessly.

This was from Cactuar I believe. Quoted from FB. It's a pretty good analogy.