Is it bad having Melee forbidden 5 back?

[Pkjoan]

I think since this is Project Melee and the Clone Engine created Roy it would be possible to bring back Melee cuts. Bringing Back Doctor Mario, Pichu, Mewtwo, Young Link and Roy would add this game a better Melee feel, besides they could find new ways to declone the characters.

Say for example:

Link is the Heavy and Powerful Experience.
Toon Link is the Light and Fast Experience.
Young Link could be the Medium Experience or non Projectile based Link.

This is just an example, I just posted this because all this character request feel kind of illogical and it would be only reasonable if we could have Melee cuts or Nintendo-only characters.

Please discuss.

Ps: I´m not requesting anything, just a simple discussion.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Well just to make a correct, the 5 from Melee are the "Fallen Five". Not "Forbidden".

The 7 whose data are still on Brawl's iso but weren't fully finished are the "Forbidden Seven". Some of which do contain some of the Fallen Five, but ya know. Details and all that. Specifics.

 

[Paradoxium]

It would be bad if we saw dr Mario return, most pointless character to revive from melee.

 

[HyperrCrow]

It would pointless by now. Dr.Mario is infused with the current iteration of Mario. Toon Link is a current mix of himself and Young Link. Pichu is just bad and a waste of a slot.
Roy and Mewtwo are really the only two relevant enough to be brought back.

 

[IhaveSonar]

Everything HyperCrow said. Doc, Young Link, and Pichu are all incorporated into characters currently in the game.

Roy and Mewtwo deserve to return.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I'm not sure Pichu has really been incorporated as much as anyone else. Not to mention, Doc for one still has many oddities that can be evolved upon, such as his infamous reverse sex kick, his Down Tilt, Up tilt trajectory. Obviously, Roy and Mewtwo are the only true essentials in my eye, but Roy is getting decloned, so who's to say Doc doesn't have enough material to be built upon? (And Pichu for that matter.)

 

[Zolom]

In my opinion, I don't have any real desire to see Doc, Young Link, or Pichu returning, though I do believe Pichu can actually be a character to develop on. The alternative is just giving Mario and Toon Link skins that match the Doc and Young look. The way I see it, the PM roster is freakin huge, and it is only going to get larger. In most cases more is better, in this case, I don't quite think so. While it isnt my intention to assume the PMBR isnt a capable team (as they have obviously shown they are) but I, personally, would rather them focus how bringing back iconic characters and balancing the entire roster. Balance is no easy feat, in all truth I am shocked they have done this well due to the overwhelming difficulty. I see bringing back Doc and YL a waste of time. Simple as that. What I would like to see, as I mentioned earlier, are skins for those who wish to play as "those characters."

Now, Mewtwo and Roy deserve to be there, hands down. The PMBR previously stated they will not be "adding" any new characters, only those on the Brawl roster. Granted, this was some time ago, around the Sonic release if memory serves. However, it has become clear they are fully capable and have every intention of doing so. Roy is is back and with a very large number of people begging for Mewtwo they will no doubt bring him back too. Very exciting stuff!

Now it comes down to Pichu. As far as I know, Pikachu inherited nothing from Pichu. Pichu actually had an interesting concept. Trading power for self-damage infliction is pretty cool, though was executed poorly. I am fully confident the PMBR could find a way to bring that idea back and give Pichu a revamped sense of style and play, though I'm in no rush to see it.

 

[SunJester]

I don't understand why you'd want Doc, Young Link, or Pichu over a whole new character the PMBR could include.

WHY.

 

[Giygacoal]

I don't understand why you'd want Doc, Young Link, or Pichu over a whole new character the PMBR could include.

WHY.

Agree. We don't need those characters. Well, if cBliss is included, Doc skins and a palette swap based on Young Link would be appreciated. Goggles Pikachu is already in the game.

My only real worry is how good the CSS will ultimately look. Well, with Roy and Mewtwo, we'd have 41 characters and a random slot. 42 is a nice even number. Maybe 6 rows of 7?

 

[Medaka444]

Thinking about it, I actually don't want Pichu in this mod. The developers might be tempted into making it competitively viable.

 

[Ghostbone]

Doc isn't worth it.
His playstyle is literally the same as Mario's.
Instead we should replace Mario with Doc.
Whereas Roy/Mewtwo/Pichu/Young Link all have their own distinct style, and would all be deserving of a spot tbh (though Young Link's unlikely to be in with Toon Link being a rehashed version of him with some 64 Link thrown in).

Pichu especially, taking the troll and self damage aspects along with blinding speed and combo game to their limits, would make an interesting character (that doesn't have to be viable).

 

[Kati]

^ indeed. Plus, I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, but projectiles are a very complex thing to edit/make. I remember this from the early clone engine development days with Dantarion. It might be that Roy is the only feasible veteran because he doesn't have a projectile.

Everyone has already covered my opinions concerning the redundancy of Dr. Mario, young link etc.

And each new character in the roster requires so much work... let's get the full expected roster and gameplay before going crazy with last minute additions.

(little zelda rant)
Except that Young link wouldn't even be young link... toon link is already young... and there is no adult link (tp link is an adult, but he's not the same adult link from melee), so "young' can't be used as distinguishing feature. In fact, "young link" is the ancestor for both WW and TP link.

 

[\Apples]

I'd never even heard of the forbidden 7... Toon Zelda? Holy yes. But on the real: Trixie is my girl.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

(little zelda rant)
Except that Young link wouldn't even be young link... toon link is already young... and there is no adult link (tp link is an adult, but he's not the same adult link from melee), so "young' can't be used as distinguishing feature. In fact, "young link" is the ancestor for both WW and TP link.

If I'm not mistaken, Young Link is technically only the ancestor of Twilight Princess Link, since Wind Waker came from the timeline where there was no Link at the end of OOT, since Zelda sent him back to live his childhood as young link, therefore splitting the Zelda universe into three parallel universes.

 

[Giygacoal]

It might be that Roy is the only feasible veteran because he doesn't have a projectile.

Mewtwo should work just fine if Lucario is used as a base. They already have a similar projectile. I'm not sure if forward throw (which uses shadow balls) could be remade, but that's not a big deal anyway.

 

[smashbro29]

If there really are no limits and they work on this for a really long time we'll probably see all of the missing Melee characters redone.

 

[JOE!]

I'd much rather adding Pichu's assets to Pikachu similarly to how Doc and Mario got combined. On the same note, Doc should be an alt skin for Mario.

Young Link doesn't really have a Niche when Toon link exists (and honestly with Roy we have so manys words anyway lol).

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

I don't know why everyone seems to be against putting doc, pichu and young link in. Fox and falco have the same exact kit but are played differently so why can't doc and Mario both be in? You could change Mario to be more like Mario or change Doc to be less of a clone. No one says they need to be exactly the same either. Look at Roy's Bair for example. Also iirc doc had some unexplored / hard to use tech that can be expanded upon in PM.

With pichu you have the whole strength for self damage idea which I think is a pretty cool niche. Similar to divekick and the yolo gem it gives people the option of playing a strong character who will die in one hit. I can see things like giving her a Brawl- bair that combos the whole way through but can be canceled with a b move. So she has more maneuverability over pikachu to make her different.

Young link would be a hard addition, but there are some things not done with link that can be added. Bombs having a larger explosion radius but still smaller than TL. Bombs blowing up quicker so as to make him based around c4ing. Arrows that leave fire on the ground but give hitstun when touched. A trap character.

Not saying this is how they should be played, but people are saying stuff like no forgotten 5 thinking of they're similarity to other characters but aren't thinking of ways to make them different.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I just want to use Agility in the same direction twice is that such a horrifying thought

 

[Evilagram]

Young Link and Dr. Mario are a waste of a slot (you could make them be a costume honestly). Do you know what would be cooler? Adding the new characters from Smash 4 (where possible, villager's ability to grab things looks impossible to replicate) + Pichu and Mewtwo.

Having Smash 4's content in Project M would make this the definitive version of the game, considering it is unlikely that Smash 4 will have any significant single player content or new engine features.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

If I can refresh my point, Roy has been shown to be a very different beast from Marth in Project M, having changes that allow his individual properties lead into very different options. This can be seen in the fact that his Down Tilt leads to possibly lethal killing aerials, his improved Down Aerial, and the new tricks and offensive options of Double Edge Dance. Dr. Mario's overall advantages have gone to Mario, but many of the oddities have been left untouched. Who's to say that Doc can't be made into a slightly familiar, but more extreme, decloned version of his former self? For Lord's sake, I myself wouldn't mind seeing new specials over Dr. Tornado, and the Super Sheet, in order to give him a truly unique form of fighting.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Young Link and Dr. Mario are a waste of a slot (you could make them be a costume honestly). Do you know what would be cooler? Adding the new characters from Smash 4 (where possible, villager's ability to grab things looks impossible to replicate) + Pichu and Mewtwo.

Having Smash 4's content in Project M would make this the definitive version of the game, considering it is unlikely that Smash 4 will have any significant single player content or new engine features.

I doubt this is in the cards for Project M's development. If they were to use Nintendo's Smash 4 additions in a game that is meant to be overshadowed by it's successor through such content, it can be considered a offensive maneuver. Should this be the case, Project M's development could very well cease completely. A modern reference to a character, such as Donkey Kong's Roll Dash, and a few additions from a previous installment are quite fine, but to replicate Smash 4's content is waters in which this boat best not drift.

 

[Archangel]

I don't know why everyone seems to be against putting doc, pichu and young link in. Fox and falco have the same exact kit but are played differently so why can't doc and Mario both be in? You could change Mario to be more like Mario or change Doc to be less of a clone. No one says they need to be exactly the same either. Look at Roy's Bair for example. Also iirc doc had some unexplored / hard to use tech that can be expanded upon in PM..

Doc and Mario already played much more alike than fox and falco, On top of that Mario and Doc are ACTUALLY the same person it's Mario dressed up as a Doctor. Also, Making mario be more like Mario is not a good idea. I Main'd Mario/Doc for years in melee. Trust me when I say that Mario is not a good character as he is. his PM hybrid is by a significant margin the best thing possible. Making Doc a skin with pills instead of fireballs would be the best option.

With pichu you have the whole strength for self damage idea which I think is a pretty cool niche. Similar to divekick and the yolo gem it gives people the option of playing a strong character who will die in one hit. I can see things like giving her a Brawl- bair that combos the whole way through but can be canceled with a b move. So she has more maneuverability over pikachu to make her different.

....Adding Pichu is just not a good idea for the sake of cloning. Fox/Falco may look alike but they don't play alike. They are also different animals all together. I don't see why you should add a small and unevolved Pikachu back to the game. It's like adding baby mario and luigi to the game.

Young link would be a hard addition, but there are some things not done with link that can be added. Bombs having a larger explosion radius but still smaller than TL. Bombs blowing up quicker so as to make him based around c4ing. Arrows that leave fire on the ground but give hitstun when touched. A trap character.

Honestly, 3 links in 1 game is too much. Toon Link is in and he's already another link...but I let it slide because he's a cartoon. I like some of these ideas though. the arrows for example but I'd rather see them given to the current Toon Link.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

....Adding Pichu is just not a good idea for the sake of cloning. Fox/Falco may look alike but they don't play alike. They are also different animals all together. I don't see why you should add a small and unevolved Pikachu back to the game. It's like adding baby mario and luigi to the game.

This is exactly my point. 2 characters with the same moveset but play completely different. I don't see why that can't be made possible. Yes its work. Yes it takes thought. But that doesn't mean they can't won't or shouldn't do it. And why does it matter so much that its an unevolved pikachu? We have link and toon link.

Tbh I don't play Mario in melee. I don't know if he was good or bad. But again I don't see why simple changes in moves can't make them different. Great PM Mario has all the things that made him and MELEE Doc good. So why cant PM Doc be different. Like melee falco to brawl falco.

Young link is a stretch but I don't see why it matters that there's a lot of links in the game. As long as they play different I'm OK. Tbh if every character in this game looked like link, but played different I'd be fine. Not only that but there are actually multiple links. Oot link, skyward sword link, TL, etc.

 

[trojanpooh]

My two cents on how they could be done:
Young Link - a more straight up balanced port of Melee Young Link. Honestly, Toon Link takes more from Link 64 than from Young Link so it should be different enough

Doctor Mario - In Melee he was a stronger Mario, so really drive this one home. Think of him as Mario's Ganondorf.

Pichu - Pikachu takes almost nothing (if at all) from Pichu, so he can stay more or less the same but better balanced. Has the potential to be really unique with his self inflicting/glass cannon style.

Mewtwo - Not a clone, not an issue.

I have to say, for a community derived from fans of Melee there are a lot of people who seem to be blindly against clones. If Fox/Falco should have taught us anything it's that multiple versions of the same moveset is something worth our time as players.

 

[Medaka444]

It was disappointing to unlock characters in Melee, only to find that half of them were clones of guys you already had. I mean, I was disappointed to find that PM changed Falco away from his more unique but still useful Brawl form.

 

[Giygacoal]

It was disappointing to unlock characters in Melee, only to find that half of them were clones of guys you already had. I mean, I was disappointed to find that PM changed Falco away from his more unique but still useful Brawl form.

Useful in Brawl =/= useful in Project M. Falco is already significantly different playstyle-wise. Also, Brawl Falco's shine reflector is just terrible.

I just don't see what Doctor Mario as his own character (considering Melee's Doc as a reference) could possibly add. Fox and Falco's combos are very different, but Mario:M already has Doc's good stuff (like the double effect forward-air) and more. Imo, if Doc is to be added, he should just have several completely different moves. I think it would actually be cool to see completely new animations for a version of Mario for once. Also, if Doc makes it in, give Mario a new taunt.

 

[Strong Badam]

To clarify for the OP, the official name of the game is "Project M," not "Project Melee."

 

[Deleted member]

Doc, Young Link, and Pichu would be a total waste of time and effort. I have no idea why anybody thinks otherwise. I would rather see a completely new character than waste space on them.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I WANT MY MOTHER****ING OLIMAR NOT ****ING PICHU

 

[Medaka444]

I WANT MY MOTHER****ING OLIMAR NOT ****ING PICHU

Be patient. "Characters" made up of multiple models can be quite difficult and time-consuming to program.

 

[The_NZA]

I would support giving toonlink's moveset to young link, and retooling toon link to better represent Wind Waker. I want to see his grapple hook, wind waker, deku leaf, skull hammer. Maybe he could retain the boomerang and arrows.

 

[Stunts]

As sample attributes from SDRemix (NOTE: and not every aspect of Pichu:SD. I mean just stuff like his superior arials, etc...) teaches me is that Pichu can have different attributes from Pikachu:M but still have viable tactics relating to his playstyle and statistics.

To clarify for the OP, the official name of the game is "Project M," not "Project Melee."

Even though the official Youtube page is named that...

 

[Strong Badam]

Even though the official Youtube page is named that...

Necessity. ProjectM was taken on YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook. Our website isn't "projectmeleegame.com" now, is it?

 

[Stunts]

Necessity. ProjectM was taken on YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook. Our website isn't "projectmeleegame.com" now, is it?

Quiet, or I'll beat your ass with Sonic

 

[Paradoxium]

Even though I think adding pichu is a waist of time, I feel the pmbr would pull it off. His play style was far enough away from pikachu's where he wasn't just an inferior pikachu.

I just don't wanna see dock or yl. My first reason, THERE IS ALREADY A MARIO AND LINK IN THE GAME! 2 Mario's was a stupid idea to begin with. Next, docs aspects were infused into Mario's, yl's were infused into toon link's. Lastly, Doc plays almost exactly the same as normal Mario, if they were to keep his melee play style I would imagine he would be very similar to our current Mario. Rather than waisting space on more clones we should devote it to more diverse characters.
Well that's my thought anyway

 

[Archangel]

I Just don't think adding characters that are already in the game is that great of an Idea. I think Mewtwo, Crystal, and DixieKong would be good additions. Aside from that idk about that.

 

[Phaiyte]

Everyone should probably quit using that "clone" word as if it's relevant, because it really is absolutely nothing but ignorant. Also, there's just no use for Doc, Pichu, or YL. It would really just make the roster look cluttered and unclean. With the addition of only those two characters, the roster will have an even number to work with. Which is 42 = 6 rows of 7.

Mewtwo should work just fine if Lucario is used as a base. They already have a similar projectile. I'm not sure if forward throw (which uses shadow balls) could be remade, but that's not a big deal anyway.

Mewtwo and Lucario are literally nothing alike. Also working models of Mewtwo already exist.

 

[Archangel]

I'm pretty sure that Mewtwo and Lucario only have neutral B's that are alike. Especially considering how Lucario plays in Project M(on that note he is kinda suffering from the 2.1-2.5 nerfs...someone please help that poor pokemon)

Mewtwo should be intentionally designed as the best character in this game if he's added in. No reason why Mewtwo, the guy who was like...the god of pokemon ended up being the worst pokemon in the game.

 

[HyperrCrow]

For all of you asking for a Doc costume on Mario, you should visit the Vault more often.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=32251

This is about as good as it'll ever get unless a way to edit projectiles for a specific texture is found.