Is DACUS a glitch exploit or legitimate exploit?

[Espyo]

So the other day I was thinking about DACUS. Some exploits, like the wavedash in Melee, are fully legitimate:

• Air-dodging causes momentum.
• When you hit the ground, you keep your momentum.
• By dodging towards the ground, you null vertical speed, but keep horizontal speed.
• Seeing as you're on the ground, and all you're doing is sliding because of the momentum, you can do other stuff.

And then there are exploits which are based on glitches.


My question is, how would the DACUS be categorized?
We know for a fact that when you perform an up-smash, you keep your horizontal momentum. But what about canceling the dash attack? Is it related to how the C-stick works? The C-stick simulates the corresponding "analog stick smash" and A button presses, but is there any mechanic behind it related to its interaction with the physical A button? Or the Z button? Maybe, when the C-stick is pressed, the game checks, for a few frames, if a smash attack is executed for real, and replaces the current smash attack (caused by the C-stick) with the user's smash attack. But this law doesn't apply to dash attacks. Any thoughts?

 

[FoxBlaze71]

DACUS is cancelling a DA into a Usmash. It's just buffering; somewhat similar to an OoS attack. This reminds me of the melee**** debating whether L-Cancelling and Wavedashing were glitches or not, xD.

 

[Life]

^We all know what a DACUS is. The OP just wants to know if it was intentionally programmed that way (to let us cancel DA with upsmash) or not. Surprisingly, I don't know the answer to this one, but the other forumites talk as if it was unintentional, sooooooo...

 

[shanus]

Its directly programmed into fighter.pac.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Its directly programmed into fighter.pac.

Y-you don't mean...
Someone saw snakes up-smash and went, "Yea no, this smash ain't NEARLY good enough! Lets make him ignore friction and slide with his 2 tonned mortar across the stage hitting anyone on the way, and dropping a huge missile behind him."

WHAAAAAAAAT?!
WHY?! ;w;

Looking at snake as a whole makes no freaking since though, so I'm not really surprised. The guy who designed him needs to seriously be fired.

 

[UltiMario]

Looking at snake as a whole makes no freaking since though, so I'm not really surprised. The guy who designed him needs to seriously be fired.

Sakurai made all of the character design and balance decisions for Brawl.

It's just that Konami shelled out the big bucks to get Snake in.

 

[tekkie]

the physics and fighter concepts are all on purpose but there's no way HAL saw this combination as a possibility before its release.

also, why does dash attack *only* cancel into usmash? why does it cancel at all?

 

[FoxBlaze71]

^A Snake DAC Fsmash would be the greatest thing ever.

 

[popsofctown]

the physics and fighter concepts are all on purpose but there's no way HAL saw this combination as a possibility before its release.

also, why does dash attack *only* cancel into usmash? why does it cancel at all?

But DACUS could be like wavedashing, an unexpected loophole.

The inability of many characters to perform DACUS makes me think it is a glitch exploit.

But I like this thread and am not sure

 

[UltiMario]

>People Implying it's unexpected when shanus already came in and said its programmed straight into the game

 

[Sunnysunny]

Sakurai made all of the character design and balance decisions for Brawl.

Oh too perfect! I stand by my statement. I harbor an intense dislike for the mans choices in game design. I can seriously write a 10 page report on how horrible his thought process is, but i'll save it for a blog or something.

 

[MR. K]

to this day i find it funny that there was anyone seriously trying to debate whether L-cancelling was a glitch or not in melee when it was so clearly listed on the original smash64 site as an advanced tech by the developers, practically proving it was intentional(of course the way the thing worked/was programmed was a dead giveaway too, too many parameters had to be met for it to work, for it to be a glitch or physics exploit)


*in response to foxblaze's post.*

 

[Kink-Link5]

DACUS is very intentionally programmed.

The sliding caused by it, not so much.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It was intentional, even if they may have tested the effects of it or not is up for debate.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

DACUS is very intentionally programmed.

The sliding caused by it, not so much.

I'd believe that (because of the way Snake's hitbox's are) if it weren't for the fact that every single other character can DACUS too. Even though some characters don't slide very far when they DACUS, it's almost impossible for them to have missed the slide on the DACUS of every single character other that has a noticeable slide.

 

[Espyo]

Its directly programmed into fighter.pac.

Oh wow. But is the DACUS as a whole specifically purposeful, or just the parts that make it?
...I wasn't even aware we could decipher the game like that.

the physics and fighter concepts are all on purpose but there's no way HAL saw this combination as a possibility before its release.

also, why does dash attack *only* cancel into usmash? why does it cancel at all?

Yeah, that's one of the weirdest things they thought of. It's related to pivot up smashes, I bet, but why don't we have pivot down and side smashes?

The inability of many characters to perform DACUS makes me think it is a glitch exploit.

I'm pretty sure all characters can DACUS. Some just aren't very effective.

DACUS is cancelling a DA into a Usmash. It's just buffering; somewhat similar to an OoS attack. This reminds me of the melee**** debating whether L-Cancelling and Wavedashing were glitches or not, xD.

to this day i find it funny that there was anyone seriously trying to debate whether L-cancelling was a glitch or not in melee when it was so clearly listed on the original smash64 site as an advanced tech by the developers, practically proving it was intentional(of course the way the thing worked/was programmed was a dead giveaway too, too many parameters had to be met for it to work, for it to be a glitch or physics exploit)


*in response to foxblaze's post.*

L-cancelling has to be a bit obvious. In SSB, you could assume that the animations stopping could be caused by the code that checks if you should put up your shield having priority over the attack's lag code. But in Melee, they acknowledged it, because it worked quite differently - it was reduced to half the duration, not canceled outright.
Also, that thing about the shielding code having higher priority doesn't even make much sense. If it did, you should also be able to cancel the lag by walking, for instance.
So basically, I can't imagine why anyone'd think it's not intended.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'd believe that (because of the way Snake's hitbox's are) if it weren't for the fact that every single other character can DACUS too. Even though some characters don't slide very far when they DACUS, it's almost impossible for them to have missed the slide on the DACUS of every single character other that has a noticeable slide.

Legitimately have no idea wtf you are saying here because of your word choice and sentence structure.

DACUS, or Dash Attack-Cancelled Up Smash, is hard programmed into the game. The sliding caused by it is a result of incorrect programming that forgets to turn off momentum when the action happens. Similarly, the Grab Release Glitch is not a glitch at all, but rather an oversight in programming that forgets to reset a flag needed to use the recoveries of the characters it effects.

 

[TL?]

It's hard to say whether DACUS as it is used, was intended. But I can vouch for it being programmed into the game. If you know any PSA, you can check for yourself as well. It's pretty difficult to pull off with some characters. Perhaps it's some sort of input leniency mechanism. But I can't think of what it would help. Maybe it made more sense in earlier builds of the game(for whatever reason) and was left in. This is pure speculation by the way.

 

[Espyo]

Similarly, the Grab Release Glitch is not a glitch at all, but rather an oversight in programming that forgets to reset a flag needed to use the recoveries of the characters it effects.

See, that's what I consider a glitch - an oversight. That wasn't intended behavior. The intended behavior would be for the flag to be set.

 

[Psychoace]

hmmm If it is programmed into fighter.pac what does it call it? Also could this be another way to find advance techniques? If so someone needs to get in on this lol.

 

[Kink-Link5]

It's called "and interrupt" or "add interrupt" in code I believe. Smashers know it better as IASA.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Whether it's a glitch or not, it's being used as a viable competitive tool, and some characters heavily rely on it for approaches and/or spacing, and without it, they may not even be as viable as they are now (now sure about Snake and Falco though). The point is, it's something everyone has agreed is perfectly fine to use in tournaments, just like Wavedashing and L-Canceling in Melee. So there can't be a reason to question it now, is there?

 

[Espyo]

I'm not questioning it. I was just trying to figure out if it was fully a glitch or fully intended.
And I knew I read about something like IASA before. That was actually the main focus of my question.
Well, that answers a lot. Thanks everyone.

 

[Necrotic]

Lol. I always get called a glitcher when buffering a dacus out of a sidestep...I believe since dacus is using IASA frames it was programmed. even showing people the forums and explain IASA frames and what not there response was "its still a glitch" *sigh*

 

[Problem2]

I believe that the development team allowed players to cancel dash attack into u-smash to help players who would miss the input for u-smash. The idea is that some players are bad at moving the joy stick from forward to up at the exact same time that they hit A, so instead, the game allows the player to input A slightly earlier before up. Most cancels in this game look like they stem from this same concept. Maybe a player who is trying to toss a banana forward accidentally presses shield before the attack button and ends up rolling instead, so they programmed into the game the ability to allow the player to press attack or shield slightly early. The result of taking advantage of this mechanic past its intended use is glide tossing.

 

[moomoomamoo]

I'm sure that mario walking through enemies without getting hurt for long periods of time wasn't intended, but it was clearly programmed in a manor that would allow it -- almost like they implied it. It is hard to find someone's intent without asking the developers themselves.

I don't think DACUS was intended. I think it was just there to help buffer an upsmash since you can run into upsmash. Anyone have sauce on something like that? If not it will remain a mystery for those who don't have faith in the idea: it was looks like it was programmed purposely for that use so it must be so.

Is it true that unlike almost everything else in the game, this type of technique doesn't require skipping flags to achieve? Has anyone made an article about it? Maybe after reading I might change my mind.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Sorry for reporting moomoomamoo's post; I misread the timestamps on the posts.

 

[Joaco]

Y-you don't mean...
Someone saw snakes up-smash and went, "Yea no, this smash ain't NEARLY good enough! Lets make him ignore friction and slide with his 2 tonned mortar across the stage hitting anyone on the way, and dropping a huge missile behind him."

I LOL'd hard