Instant Light Shield (TAS help needed)

[Kyu Puff]

Sorry if this is already known, but since light powershielding is a thing now I thought this might be useful.

Basically, it's a way to lightshield with the Z button out of neutral. I have no idea why it works, and I'm not 100% on the order of the inputs because I don't have any way to test frame-by-frame. But here's the general idea:

Frame 1: Powershield with L
Frame 2: Simultaneously hit Z and R (analog press)

Doesn't really make sense, but instead of grabbing you get a full sized lightshield. I can't do it consistently but I've replicated it enough times that I'm sure it works.

Of course, this is harder and maybe less practical than holding down A to get the lightshield. But it requires less planning and might allow you to light powershield more fluidly on reaction.


You can also lightshield out of run by crouching and pressing Z, but I'm not sure if this could be used for powershielding (since if you powershield beforehand it cancels out the crouching animation).

 

[Kyu Puff]

Anyone with 20XX or dolphin able to test this out?

 

[Racuncai]

i have read about the Z powershield but exactly how a can do that?
what i know about is, press A, then press Z and R/L at the same time and that will trigger the Z powershield is that correct?

i can do the same thing by just doing a ligth press and the normal pres at the same time?

i want to test those things.

 

[Kyu Puff]

i have read about the Z powershield but exactly how a can do that?
what i know about is, press A, then press Z and R/L at the same time and that will trigger the Z powershield is that correct?

i can do the same thing by just doing a ligth press and the normal pres at the same time?

i want to test those things.

Z powershield happens when you powershield (by digital pressing L or R) and then immediately transition to lightshield with Z. You can do it relatively easily by holding down A, pressing L/R and then pressing Z one frame afterwards.

You can do the same thing by pressing L, then light pressing R and releasing L on frame 2. This is pretty difficult to execute unless you mess with the trigger inputs before starting the match (i.e. hold down L before plugging in your controller to disable analog press, and use R as your designated light shield trigger). I think using Z is a more attractive option because pressing down L/R before plugging in your controller will limit your shielding options and alter your L-cancel timing.

What I am suggesting is that instead of needing to hold down A before pressing Z, you can do it immediately with no prior inputs. I believe the series of inputs is as simple as

1. press down L
2. press Z and light press R with your right finger

but I haven't figured out the timing yet and it is very inconsistent.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Turns out you don't even need to press R.

I'm pretty sure it's just L/R + Z on the same frame (or possible one frame apart). Sorry if this is already known, but I always see people saying you need to buffer by holding A, which apparently isn't true. Just looking for someone to confirm at this point.

Edit: For some reason I don't think it works when analog press is disabled.

 

[schmooblidon]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

You can also lightshield out of run by crouching and pressing Z, but I'm not sure if this could be used for powershielding (since if you powershield beforehand it cancels out the crouching animation).

This is a 1 frame window and you must input Z on RunBrake, but it will not let you Z-PS because it comes out 2 frames later.

Z powershield happens when you powershield (by digital pressing L or R) and then immediately transition to lightshield with Z. You can do it relatively easily by holding down A, pressing L/R and then pressing Z one frame afterwards.

You can do the same thing by pressing L, then light pressing R and releasing L on frame 2. This is pretty difficult to execute unless you mess with the trigger inputs before starting the match (i.e. hold down L before plugging in your controller to disable analog press, and use R as your designated light shield trigger). I think using Z is a more attractive option because pressing down L/R before plugging in your controller will limit your shielding options and alter your L-cancel timing.

What I am suggesting is that instead of needing to hold down A before pressing Z, you can do it immediately with no prior inputs. I believe the series of inputs is as simple as

1. press down L
2. press Z and light press R with your right finger

but I haven't figured out the timing yet and it is very inconsistent.

Z-PS is Z + Digital Press on the same frame with A buffered.

edit: my b

Ok my b. I think this you might of discovered a new variation of ADT-PS, unfortunately it's still terrible.

You must release analog press on frame 2.
So if you hit Z on frame 2 and release it on frame 3, you get a typical ADT-PS and it is totally dependent on your analog press (the harder the shield, the smaller the PS).
If you hold Z for at least 2 frames, then frame 4+ will be large (as big as a Z-shield / Z-PS), including GuardReflect 3-4 (PSing physcial attacks).

So let me try to display this nicely.

Case 1: Hold Z for one frame
Case 2: Hold Z for more than one frame

Case | PSS-Projectile Size | PSS-Physical Size | PSS increase on frame | PSS decrease on frame | PSA downtime
1 | Dependent on Analog Light Shield | Small | Never | GuardReflect 3 (total - frame 4) | GuardReflect 1-2 (total - frame 2-3)
2 | Dependent on Analog Light Shield | Huge | GuardReflect 3 (total - frame 4)* | Never* | GuardReflect 1-2 (total - frame 2-3)

*It will increase on GuardReflect 3, if the analog value is more then a Z-Shield, it will decrease if the value is less than.
** It's worth noting that PSP is always a smaller sized sphere to PSA, so when I say it increases/decreases, I'm talking about relative to what how large a PSA and PSP are using the same analog values.

The only potential use for this I can see is doing a small lightshield into a case 2 for powershielding physical attacks, but honestly it's really hard to perform and not really worth it.

I am using pause buffering so take this with a grain of salt, but I think this is accurate. Apologies for disregarding it and claiming you would grab, Z stuff is tedious to test.

 

[Kyu Puff]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

You have to buffer A for Z-PS or you will grab. What you are likely doing is pushing Z during lag (likely GuardOff if you are repeatedly trying it) and thus getting a lightshield without buffering A, but it is impossible to Z-PS with this.

No, what I'm suggesting is accurate. I don't know exactly how it interacts with the powershield properties, but you can definitely Z-shield without buffering A or being in lag beforehand.

The following, which I mentioned in the other thread, yields a non-buffered lightshield (test it out for yourself if you want):

Frame 1: Analog press
Frame 2: Digital press + Z

My friend tested this frame-by-frame in dolphin emulator and it results in, at the very least, a lightshield. So far we haven't been able to replicate the powershield properties that I've observed in game, maybe you can help us figure it out though.

 

[Kadano]

@ Kyu Puff I can confirm this. Nice find!

It’s a way to get ADT-PS without inputting A.
Necessary inputs:
Frame 1: light press L or R
Frame 2: Full press (L or R) and Z.

The frame 1 lightshield is still a problem, and for physical attacks the frame 1-2 vulnerability is still bad. For quickly moving projectiles, this should be a solid tool, though.

 

[tauKhan]

I've been playing around this for a few days now, forgot to post, sorry. It does feel a lot harder to do this in practice than doing z-ps holding a, and as @ Kadano said the shield on frame 1 is a problem I think. Though you don't need to lightshield, you can frame 1 full analog shield right?

Good work regardless.