Bionis
Smash Rookie
Hey guys! This is a new thing I'm going to start writing. I will walk you through matchups that people call near impossible or very difficult and show that they are not too bad. Now with the intro out of the way, let's talk about the matchup.
First thing's first, This is from Ike's point of view. Now, I have an unpopular opinion as an Ike main here. This matchup is absolutely, 100% dead even. Both of these characters have fantastic punish games on each other. The reason people say this matchup is so bad is because this matchup is rarely seen at top level I guess. But, here's another unpopular opinion. There's an entirely different way to play Ike that I believe is better than the way most Ike mains now play. Obviously the Ally/DJ Nintendo style works, but in order to beat Fox, I think a lot of precise QuickDraw usage is necessary. QD grab is amazing when used in combination with QD aerial approaches/retreats. DD, WD, and QDWD are very important tools to utilize in the footsies as well. It throws the opponent off, because they think that you are going to be approaching with QD grab or QD aerial. Let me reiterate that QD is absolutely ESSENTIAL to winning this matchup consistently.
Now, let's delve into the punish game a bit more. The punish game is absolutely amazing. Chain grabs are one obvious thing that all Ike mains know already. Once the chain grab is done, or if you are not on FD, here are more punishes. If you are on FD, then Nair -> DI reaction Nair/Uair chains of Fair, depending on percent. Otherwise, you are likely left with a platform tech chase. A great tool for this is Uair. If spaced properly you can cover all options on stages with smaller platforms. Up smash works as a mix up simply because of the size of its hitbox. It covers all options as well, but it's very slow. If the Fox techs in place and you can react fast enough, dair is amazing, especially at mid/high percent. Dair -> fair/Bair are good follow ups.
Edgeguarding is one of the most difficult things to learn, but once learned, it's simply a matter of not being lazy and reacting every time you can. This section will not contain every scenario, as there are too many, but I will cover as many as I can. Let's begin with side b. If fox side b's, there are multiple ways to deal with it. If you are on stage and the fox side b's on stage, f tilt/dash attack depending on the situation. If the fox side b's to ledge and you are on stage, use neutral b (eruption). The only time eruption does not work is if they sweet spot ledge. The only way to cover this is to grab ledge before hand. If you are on ledge and they side b on stage or to ledge, ledge hop Bair/reverse nair. A weird option that works sometimes for that option is b reverse eruption. Don't use it very much, but I suppose it's a mixup. Finally, ledge hop dair can work and leave you with and easy edge guard of an up b below stage. Speaking of Up b, let's cover that now. Your options of covering this are near endless. The major situation is as follows. The fox is offstage using up b while above the ledge. A good option is Fair at the right time (before up b starts moving, but just barely) and that covers two options (to ledge and straight at you). If they start going high a lot, do a full hop fair and that will cover that. If they go straight at you a lot, counter. It's pretty devastating at mid/high percents and continues the edgeguard at low percents. If they up b from below, strong dair or RAR weak dair -> Bair (QD before RAR if necessary) is a good edgeguard tool. Other miscellaneous options to cover up b or side b include d tilt, run off QD into wall -> wall jump -> fair, and QD RAR while carrying momentum -> Bair.
Defensive game is definitely the hardest part of the matchup and the part I still have yet to figure out anything particularly good for some options to bear with me and any suggestions are appreciated. The first thing I would like to go over is OOS options. Ike's OOS options generally suck and this MU amplifies this because of Fox's great shield pressure. If being multishined, your only option is buffer roll. Mix it up between roll behind and roll away. If the fox does something unsafe on shield, Nair OOS and shield grab are some of your only options. If the fox does a cross up aerial on shield, then WD OOS -> U tilt or WD OOS -> reset to neutral. Fortunately, it is more manageable to escape combos with a lot of practice. SDI is key. Most Foxes I played against love to drill shine and waveshine me across the stage. You want to try to SDI as many drills as possible. Your best option is to SDI behind so that there are no guarantees follow ups. The same applies to the waveshine. Try to SDI out as you would as Peach, Falcon, or DK if that is helpful. If you are being rushed down, QD -> pivot jump -> Nair/Fair works pretty well if used properly.
Now that you read this guide, I hope you Ike mains out there feel better about this matchup now. If you have any problems with this matchup, please ask me in the comments. I will do my best to help. Let me know what you think as well of my writing and if there is something you don't understand I will clarify. I hope you will read the rest of the posts in this series as they come out. Thanks!
That's it for the guide. I'm not going to pretend to be all-knowing, as not a single one of you who read this are going to know who I am yet. I'm just a lab monster. And even though I've given all the options that I've found that Ike has, this matchup is still by no means easy. Like I said, it's even. They both have insane punish games on each other. Feel free to give things to add, or clarify, disagree, or anything else below.
~Bionis
First thing's first, This is from Ike's point of view. Now, I have an unpopular opinion as an Ike main here. This matchup is absolutely, 100% dead even. Both of these characters have fantastic punish games on each other. The reason people say this matchup is so bad is because this matchup is rarely seen at top level I guess. But, here's another unpopular opinion. There's an entirely different way to play Ike that I believe is better than the way most Ike mains now play. Obviously the Ally/DJ Nintendo style works, but in order to beat Fox, I think a lot of precise QuickDraw usage is necessary. QD grab is amazing when used in combination with QD aerial approaches/retreats. DD, WD, and QDWD are very important tools to utilize in the footsies as well. It throws the opponent off, because they think that you are going to be approaching with QD grab or QD aerial. Let me reiterate that QD is absolutely ESSENTIAL to winning this matchup consistently.
Now, let's delve into the punish game a bit more. The punish game is absolutely amazing. Chain grabs are one obvious thing that all Ike mains know already. Once the chain grab is done, or if you are not on FD, here are more punishes. If you are on FD, then Nair -> DI reaction Nair/Uair chains of Fair, depending on percent. Otherwise, you are likely left with a platform tech chase. A great tool for this is Uair. If spaced properly you can cover all options on stages with smaller platforms. Up smash works as a mix up simply because of the size of its hitbox. It covers all options as well, but it's very slow. If the Fox techs in place and you can react fast enough, dair is amazing, especially at mid/high percent. Dair -> fair/Bair are good follow ups.
Edgeguarding is one of the most difficult things to learn, but once learned, it's simply a matter of not being lazy and reacting every time you can. This section will not contain every scenario, as there are too many, but I will cover as many as I can. Let's begin with side b. If fox side b's, there are multiple ways to deal with it. If you are on stage and the fox side b's on stage, f tilt/dash attack depending on the situation. If the fox side b's to ledge and you are on stage, use neutral b (eruption). The only time eruption does not work is if they sweet spot ledge. The only way to cover this is to grab ledge before hand. If you are on ledge and they side b on stage or to ledge, ledge hop Bair/reverse nair. A weird option that works sometimes for that option is b reverse eruption. Don't use it very much, but I suppose it's a mixup. Finally, ledge hop dair can work and leave you with and easy edge guard of an up b below stage. Speaking of Up b, let's cover that now. Your options of covering this are near endless. The major situation is as follows. The fox is offstage using up b while above the ledge. A good option is Fair at the right time (before up b starts moving, but just barely) and that covers two options (to ledge and straight at you). If they start going high a lot, do a full hop fair and that will cover that. If they go straight at you a lot, counter. It's pretty devastating at mid/high percents and continues the edgeguard at low percents. If they up b from below, strong dair or RAR weak dair -> Bair (QD before RAR if necessary) is a good edgeguard tool. Other miscellaneous options to cover up b or side b include d tilt, run off QD into wall -> wall jump -> fair, and QD RAR while carrying momentum -> Bair.
Defensive game is definitely the hardest part of the matchup and the part I still have yet to figure out anything particularly good for some options to bear with me and any suggestions are appreciated. The first thing I would like to go over is OOS options. Ike's OOS options generally suck and this MU amplifies this because of Fox's great shield pressure. If being multishined, your only option is buffer roll. Mix it up between roll behind and roll away. If the fox does something unsafe on shield, Nair OOS and shield grab are some of your only options. If the fox does a cross up aerial on shield, then WD OOS -> U tilt or WD OOS -> reset to neutral. Fortunately, it is more manageable to escape combos with a lot of practice. SDI is key. Most Foxes I played against love to drill shine and waveshine me across the stage. You want to try to SDI as many drills as possible. Your best option is to SDI behind so that there are no guarantees follow ups. The same applies to the waveshine. Try to SDI out as you would as Peach, Falcon, or DK if that is helpful. If you are being rushed down, QD -> pivot jump -> Nair/Fair works pretty well if used properly.
Now that you read this guide, I hope you Ike mains out there feel better about this matchup now. If you have any problems with this matchup, please ask me in the comments. I will do my best to help. Let me know what you think as well of my writing and if there is something you don't understand I will clarify. I hope you will read the rest of the posts in this series as they come out. Thanks!
That's it for the guide. I'm not going to pretend to be all-knowing, as not a single one of you who read this are going to know who I am yet. I'm just a lab monster. And even though I've given all the options that I've found that Ike has, this matchup is still by no means easy. Like I said, it's even. They both have insane punish games on each other. Feel free to give things to add, or clarify, disagree, or anything else below.
~Bionis
