Ike matchup spread

[Link24a]

http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/share/?user=Link24&char=1111

Thoughts?

 

[Mario766]

There's a lot more neutral match-ups than what you have.

 

[Link24a]

Explain, then

 

[Mario766]

Link is more likely 5:5. The website doesn't let you do halves so everything is skewed one way or another.
Rob isn't 5:5. 6:4 ROB advantage. You're both big characters, but ROB controls way too much space with Gyro and laser.
Villager is 5:5 IMO. Villager has to play super defensive with f-air/b-air and Gyroids. Gyroid is punishable at a SH aerial distance *Pretty big actually.* Ike can jump right over it into a back air. It's more about punishing Villagers mistakes.
Sonic isn't 7:3. 5:5 or maybe 45:55 Sonic advantage. Quick Draw clanks with Sonic's best tool. That means a lot.
The only match-ups for Ike that are close to 3:7 is Sheik. Rosalina's 4:6 and Diddy is also 4:6.
Zelda is 5:5, maybe 55:45 Ike. Zelda doesn't have many tools if Ike gets in close, and Ike has enough speed to get around Din's Fire unless he's recovering.
Mario is 6:4 leaning to 55:45 Mario. His gimps are the worst part of the match-up. His big combos only do ~35 damage. We do 20+ with two hits in a still true combo.
Shulk is ~55:45.
Robin is ~55:45 IMO. Ike can do to Arcfire what he does to Gyroid. It's insanely punishable if you know it's coming, your only concern is to not get zoned and avoid Arcfire/Arcthunder. It's a lot easier to get around Arcfire than to get around PK Fire.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

does quick draw really work against sonic, the hit box looks like it wouldn't cover where sonic tries to hit you

 

[Mario766]

Depends on timing. If you're too late, Sonic beats you. If you hit before Sonic starts really going, youl'll hit him. If you're both in the middle it'll clank.

 

[Link24a]

Link is more likely 5:5. The website doesn't let you do halves so everything is skewed one way or another.
Rob isn't 5:5. 6:4 ROB advantage. You're both big characters, but ROB controls way too much space with Gyro and laser.
Villager is 5:5 IMO. Villager has to play super defensive with f-air/b-air and Gyroids. Gyroid is punishable at a SH aerial distance *Pretty big actually.* Ike can jump right over it into a back air. It's more about punishing Villagers mistakes.
Sonic isn't 7:3. 5:5 or maybe 45:55 Sonic advantage. Quick Draw clanks with Sonic's best tool. That means a lot.
The only match-ups for Ike that are close to 3:7 is Sheik. Rosalina's 4:6 and Diddy is also 4:6.
Zelda is 5:5, maybe 55:45 Ike. Zelda doesn't have many tools if Ike gets in close, and Ike has enough speed to get around Din's Fire unless he's recovering.
Mario is 6:4 leaning to 55:45 Mario. His gimps are the worst part of the match-up. His big combos only do ~35 damage. We do 20+ with two hits in a still true combo.
Shulk is ~55:45.
Robin is ~55:45 IMO. Ike can do to Arcfire what he does to Gyroid. It's insanely punishable if you know it's coming, your only concern is to not get zoned and avoid Arcfire/Arcthunder. It's a lot easier to get around Arcfire than to get around PK Fire.

I put ROB at 5:5? Oops, I agree that's 6:4
Link has superior range all-round and more speed to boot.
Villager is definitely at an advantage. Insane recovery, good gimping that goes along with it, spacing with fair and Bair can probably lock him down somewhat, gyroid limits options when at a distance... But he does have poor range aside from his projectiles so I guess that's a thing...
Yeah I was too harsh with sonic. I say 6:4, I don't think that quick draw clanking really helps out outside of for glory...
Rosa can shut ike down terribly, also Diddy can juggle well and ike deals poorly with juggles
Mario has good juggles too which is problematic for ike
Shulk has insane range and can boost speed and damage on command
Robin may be out ranged by way of sword, but his projectiles and kill options really help him out

 

[Mario766]

Ike has better range on his normals, that I'm almost positive on. Not counting projectiles, Ike can win a spacing battle. Link has moves that come out a little faster but Ike has less endlag, since Fair/Nair/Bair auto cancel and Ike has lessened endlag on his tilts and jab 1 is pretty safe on block in general. Link's moves are much more unsafe. His projectiles are unsafe at a distance like Villager. Link is easier to fight than TL IMO.
Villager can space with slingshot, true, but it's pretty easily perfect shielded and Ike can pursuit. Ike's MUCH faster in this game compared to Brawl. Villager has slingshot and Nair to use mostly, but Ike can eat through Nair with spaced aerials, and slingshot is punishable if Villager isn't the same height with Ike, I recommend just not jumping with him. Drop down wall jump slingshot is punished with a Up Smash if he misses the height due to Ikes charge animation. Villager has a lot less options up close. 55-45 or 5:5 is what I see.
Quick Draw clanking with Sonic destroys one of Sonic's main approaches. Dash attack is shield punishable if you don't mess up and get crossed up, and dash grab is readable. Without this, Sonic doesn't have a ton of approach options, and Ike has a massive sword to beat his aerials with.
Mario has good juggles that don't do enough damage unless you **** up your DI. Mario's up tilts are escapable, and they do so little damage. Ike gets one aerial after a grab? ~20 damage. Mario gets one aerial after a grab? ~12 damage. That's a big difference. Ike has a massive kill advantage too, Mario has to get a gimp or a good smash/aerial.
Shulk's range beats out Ikes, yes. But compared to a non-disjoint character...it's a lot less noticable. His N-Air is probably his strongest tool in the match-up, and speed is hard because Ike is punishable by speedy characters, but he doesn't have it all match. Buster is a HUGE risk, you do a lot of damage but Ike hits even harder than usual. Scary. Same thing with Smash. Shulk with smash dies really fast to Ike, just like he'll kill pretty quickly. Shulk can gimp Ike though, gotta watch out for Jump/Speed going deep.
Robin is annoying but doable. 55-45 Robin as I said.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Another thing with Villager is though he has a great recovery, he's similar with Duck Hunt that it is pure defensive in nature and can easily be punished. An off stage b-air to stage spike or just popping the balloons just freaks out Village players. that and due to it's speed, Eruption is a beast to use since the only counter with their balloons is to try and go around you.

Shulk has a problem where all his smashes and most attacks come out in a linear fashion, which means a good Ike can approach from an Aerial and slip in between his attacks.

I may be in the minority, but I've never had a large issue against Sheik. It's still tipped in her favor, but I still don't believe it's a 7:3 split. She's got good combo game, but requires Ike to be at high % to go for the kill in most cases. She also has to rushdown Ike for those combos, so a well placed jab or n-air can keep her at Ike's good range. Her speed does make it hard to land good tilts against her, and the needles are annoying. (Though since they shot downward in the air, they aren't as bad as Falco's laser)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm not even going to try to go through how much of that MU list is wrong. Particularly when adding in the little bit of logic you tried to use in your last post TC.

Just... lurk the boards for a while. Read our discussions. Watch some high level videos from people like San or Ryo. You'll see how wrong your chart is.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

bair will only work against villager in really specific scenarios, they can cover themselves with rockets/fairs and even go to the opposite side of the stage.

 

[Mario766]

You need to be decently close, but it's definitely possible.

Slingshot is a much safer option against Ike in the match-up.

 

[Link24a]

I'm not even going to try to go through how much of that MU list is wrong. Particularly when adding in the little bit of logic you tried to use in your last post TC.

Just... lurk the boards for a while. Read our discussions. Watch some high level videos from people like San or Ryo. You'll see how wrong your chart is.

I barely even devote any time to ike this was just a "OK I'll just make this" list

 

[AN(M)ist]

Depends on timing. If you're too slow, Sonic beats you...

Fixed.

 

[Mario766]

If you don't even play the character why are you making a match-up list.

Seriously.

 

[Link24a]

If you don't even play the character why are you making a match-up list.

Seriously.

I do play him just very rarely as he's not really a good counterpick to anyone imo

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I completely disagree with most of these. Way too many bad matchups, like Link and Ness, that aren't bad matchups at all.