"I don't care how strong you are. It's not strong enough!" Roy Match Up Thread

[A Revelation]

Roy the young lion, heir of Pherae and son of Eliwood has rejoined the fight!

There are 41 characters currently in Project M 3.0 and each one gives us a different obstacle to overcome.
From magic users to space fairing animals, the boy will have to take each opponent down with precision and strength.

All you have is yourself and your sword....

Space Voyagers
Captain Falcon

Falco

Fox There are three things emphasized in a match vs Fox:
Neutral
Punish Game
Edge guarding
and I'm going to try to explain to the best of my abilities what usually goes down during the fight.
Your best tool in this fight: Movement and solid ground game.

Neutral:[/FONT]​

1. Fox has the upper hand usually cause of his speed. You can somewhat mitigate with your range and movement. Not getting hit is key here any shine can send you to the ground sprawling in an attempt to get back on your feet. With the loss of mobility Fox can run circles around you without worry. As with all match ups with Roy spacing your attacks are needed. A badly spaced anything will get you grabbed into up-air chains or worse.
2. Try not to have your back close to the edge. If you realize you're stuck close to an edge find a safe escape plan and follow through. However if you find that your options are being cut off a lot you may have to muscle your way through. A FE character without space is ineffective. Dash dances and punishing from them are so important. Being squeezed off into a little box removes most of your offensive and defensive options.
3. If a Fox is chasing you down while you dash away for space there are a couple of things you can do in reaction to him:

• • • • • 
          
          • You can jump bair (not sure how effective this is cause of new bair's angle)
  • • • • 
          
          • You can wave dash/dash through him if he attempts to overshoot, you can pivot grab him for a surprise
  • • • • 
          
          • You can block if he's coming in with a nairplane or roll early to roll through him as he runs by.
  • • • • 
          
          • You can use my favorite and Pivot nair to cover space. Which is done by wavedashing away, dashing the opposite way so Roy gets stuck in place but still looks like he's dashing. Then jump and Nair. You shouldn't see the dash back too much though if you're doing it right.
  • • • • 
          
          • You can also turn around while dashing away and jump Fair to catch jumping foxes.

Punish Game:
When you hit Fox you need to make sure you hurt him badly. Spacies hate being on the floor as much as you do. Spaced nairs are immune to any Crouch Cancelled retaliations but be wary what action you take after. Maybe hit Fox with a nair and see how he reacts the first time. Then decide how to counter it for the next time you think he'll do something.

For every mistake Fox makes you need to make him pay with his life. Chain grabs, Dtitls, f-smashes anything to rack tons of damage or more importantly GET HIM OFF STAGE.

Don't forget shielding and dodging is punishable too, find a string of attacks that allows you stay safe and create openings on the character.

Edgeguarding:
This is probably one of the most under appreciated parts of this match up.
Whenever Fox is off the stage he should be dead theoretically. General rule of thumb is to get rid of his jump, if you can't do that then take the safest most predictable option and start from there. For example think he's going to Side B a little too high so that he doesn't sweetspot the ledge? Jab or D-tilt is good for that, heck even the long lasting Nair copter is good for that.

Learn the maximum distance and angles of your UP B, so you know how low you can go to knock Fox out of his UP B. If he's close but low I usually drop and then DJ Fair then Up B back to stage. Test the waters and use other moves if you can. I hear neutral B is good as well.

These three should transition smoothly, from one to that other.

Neutral -> Punish Game -> Edge guarding

Extra Advice: Baiting out moves from shield might be tricky but amazing, once you scare them (if you ever do) into blocking you get free grabs. People who are scared usually block more and will be more vulnerable to grabs. One mixup I like to use is D-tilt on shield and Nair in place or dash dance nair, it catches a lot of options such as Dair/Nair OOS, Spotdodges and you may be lag free after a roll to punish.​

Olimar

R.O.B

Samus

Wolf

Zero Suit Samus


Powerful Creatures
[collapse=Pikachu][/collapse]

[Collapse=MewTwo][/collapse]

[Collapse=Lucario][/collapse]

[Collapse=Charizard] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Ivysaur][/collapse]

[Collapse=Squirtle][/collapse]

[Collapse=Jigglypuff][/collapse]


Reputable Swordsmen
[Collapse=Roy] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Marth] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Ike] [/collapse]

[Collapse=MetaKnight][/collapse]


[Collapse= Link] Hyrule's only chance of survival. [/collapse]​

[Collapse=Toon Link][/collapse]


Supernatural Opponents
[Collapse=Sheik] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Zelda] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Ganondorf] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Pit][/collapse]

[Collapse=Lucas] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Ness][/collapse]


[collapse=Kirby] [/collapse]

[Collapse=King DeDeDe] [/collapse]


Mushroom Warriors
[Collapse=Mario] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Luigi] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Peach][/collapse]

[Collapse=Bowser][/collapse]

[Collapse=Wario][/collapse]

[Collapse=Yoshi][/collapse]


Terrestrial Champions
[Collapse=Donkey Kong] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Diddy Kong] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Game and Watch][/collapse]

[Collapse=Popo and Nana] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Snake] [/collapse]

[Collapse=Sonic] [/collapse]
​

All match up related tips and strategies you are more than welcome to share. I will post my findings later on in the day. Feel free to share and the OP will be updated periodically.
​

"I don't know about that, but I want this victory more than you do." -Roy​

[Collapse= Updates] Dec. 14 thread is being worked on.[/collapse]

 

[Kankato]

A+ work on categorizing the cast :D you give Roy's matchups so much more drama and whimsey. You should write for tabletop games.
Oh, and you forgot to mention we have t3h ph1r3, with which we cannot lose...

 

[theONEjanitor]

Roy's still probably going to be low tier for now, because the problems that hurt him in melee (super easy to combo, terrible recovery) are still present, but he can still be a gimmicky pick in certain matches, especially against heavies and fast fallers.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah, I feel like Roy's still going to have an uphill battle but at least it's better than Melee where the hill didn't exist and he couldn't do much of anything. Here he at least has some useful tools that let him set-up for good things.

 

[Tuvillo]

The distance from "low tier" to the top is simply much, much smaller than it was in Melee, though.

 

[A Revelation]

A+ work on categorizing the cast :D you give Roy's matchups so much more drama and whimsey. You should write for tabletop games.
Oh, and you forgot to mention we have t3h ph1r3, with which we cannot lose...

Lol why aren't my spoilers working?! I'm trying to get the matchup info down but I want it looking nice first D:

Roy I believe currently has the tools he needs to beat everyone. Just he's going to have to work way harder, mainly cause the lack of a projectile.

 

[Kally Wally]

Use [ collapse = stuff ]more stuff[ /collapse ]

without the spaces.

[collapse=stuff]more stuff[/collapse]

 

[A Revelation]

Use [ collapse = stuff ]more stuff[ /collapse ]

without the spaces.

[collapse=stuff]more stuff[/collapse]

Yeah I copied that, but they doubled up starting from Olimar down. Lol?!

Link's quote keeps adding [ / font] after I save it as well.

[collapse= Link] it works fine here though >:[ [/collapse]

*fix'd

 

[Kankato]

Are there any high level players interested in maining Roy atm?

 

[Xinc]

Are there any high level players interested in maining Roy atm?

Probably NEO.

I'm interested in Roy myself, but I'm no high level, at least not yet. He's strong, but built like a brick.

 

[Kankato]

Probably NEO.

I'm interested in Roy myself, but I'm no high level, at least not yet. He's strong, but built like a brick.

Just keep at it and who knows? Maybe you'll land the "Notable Players" list in the general thread :3

 

[Xinc]

Just keep at it and who knows? Maybe you'll land the "Notable Players" list in the general thread :3

I gotta get my butt to real life tournaments first. xD

 

[CyberZixx]

Sethlon won many tournaments and will probably be using Roy.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I know it's only been a week, but does anyone have any tips on the Samus match-up?

I feel like she's hard to combo, impossible to edgeguard, and difficult to be edgeguarded against. It's like, if I don't land the perfect combo at <30%, Samus won't die, ever.

 

[Xinc]

I know it's only been a week, but does anyone have any tips on the Samus match-up?

I feel like she's hard to combo, impossible to edgeguard, and difficult to be edgeguarded against. It's like, if I don't land the perfect combo at <30%, Samus won't die, ever.

She's really hard to GIMP too. You've got to move into her range but not let her grab you. Once you get out of that dangerous outer boundary and avoid grabs, you should be safe. The Nair should be a good thing. Also, D-Smash since it's fast. Just chase her.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

KOing floaties with Roy has always been ridiculous.
At high percents (100+, off the top of my head), watch where Samus (or any floaty, really) goes when hit by Double Edge Dance 1. If she gets popped up in front of you go for a dsmash. It should get you a few KOs, but it's difficult to set up. Be careful when using this on Luigi or Peach, if you're in range of their nair you might not get your attack off in time.
Developing edgeguarding strategies is also a reasonable approach to the problem. Roy has much better offstage capabilities now, so going for a dair or aerial neutral-b won't always result in disaster. I haven't tested this much, but try using a DJ bair from a ledgehang to stop lower recoveries, if timed properly you can make it back to the ledge with Blazer. Counter now has decent base knockback, too, so catching a careless up-b can net you a KO.

Edit, Random tip:
Against Ivysaur, Wolf, and probably other characters with clankable projectiles, it seems that the inner ftilt hitbox can stop the projectile without interrupting the outer hitbox. Situational, but can stop some grounded approaches if they follow the projectile in.

 

[Mono.]

I think a good point to start is how Roy does against his known bad matchups in Melee with all of his changes in play.

 

[A Revelation]

Match up vs Fox is up, it's giving me glicthes again and I don't feel like retyping it so just click the last two spoiler tags lol.

 

[DMG]

I work for Sethlon's seal of Roy approval

 

[Sethlon]

One day, you might even get it

 

[DMG]

"Might get it" Don't tempt me Sethlon, I'm gonna fail

 

[FirexBolt]

For Samus, avoid N-airs and U-tilts. Those moves are just so good. Also, don't let too much space get between you and Samus, cuz then they'll hold you at bay with missiles and plasma blasts. Don't get too close either cuz of the U-tilt. Edgeguarding her is difficult sometimes, mostly because they like to wait for the right moment to recover. If they mistime it, F-smash of N-special.

F-smash/N-special to me are the go to kill moves for this MU because counter can be difficult to time and Samus's U-special is hard to break through. B-air is more of an on-stage safety kill move. If you wanna set up combos, D-tilt and F-air all day. N-air is more of an approach/finisher, but approach more so in this MU. Note: If Samus's grab misses then that should be able to get in a decent combo.

 

[StevenBeastMode]

I went to my first tournament today, so my advice might not be too great but...
Lucario is pretty difficult to deal with most of the time. His OHC is really difficult to deal with, and a lot of the things he does are difficult to deal with with Roy. Have to be patient and bait mistakes.
Ivysaur was difficult to deal with as well, mostly because of the fact that most of her (I think this Ivysaur's voice is the 2nd most masculine voice in the game, only behind Ganondorf) attacks outranged mine. Her aerials usually beat my nB and my fSmash in terms of speed. I would hear Roy yell with those attacks, yet I would be the one taking the damage.
The lesson of the day? nAirs and dTilts.

 

[Xinc]

Match up vs Fox is up, it's giving me glicthes again and I don't feel like retyping it so just click the last two spoiler tags lol.

There are three: You might want to merge them.

 

[TheNumber47]

Alright guys since we're doing MU's I think we need to talk about the all important Fox (Or any spacie really) MU. We all know that everytime we get a punish, we need to carry it is far as possible, that includes the FD counterpick. We need to develop Roy to a point where he is as feared as Marth on this stage. So let's go ahead and post what we've found for guaranteed combos and percentages and all that. I'm not sure how much Melee Roy's frame data is relevant, but if anyone feels like posting that, that's fine too. I'd really appreciate everyone going over my numbers and advice from people with a lot of experience!

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming any of my numbers are 100% correct I'm just trying to get a general idea for discussion. These numbers were made mostly from testing on different CPU Foxes and theory from there.

[collapse=FD Chain Grabs and Combos!]
First of all, you should be trying to convert all of your neutral game into grabs, or tech chase situations which Roy is fantastic at converting into grabs.
0% - I'm not sure if an Uthrow chain grab is is guaranteed at this percent or not but its very difficult, so I usually just Fthrow, which doesn't knock down at this percent and immediately regrab.
5-30% - Uthrow Chaingrabs seem guaranteed until about 30, regrab or dash grab if they DI in front of you. Turn around grab if they DI directly behind you. The difficult thing to deal with is neutral or slight behind DI, in which case you'll have to Pivot grab or dash dance grab very quickly.
31-50% - This is an awkward percent for Roy, he can't go directly into Utilt and regrab combos like Marth, so you have to get a little creative. At this point a sweetspot Fsmash is guaranteed, although you'll probably have to walk slightly in either direction for neutral DI, Utilt is guaranteed, and Bair and Dair sweetspots are possible. Fsmash isn't a great option unless you're near the ledge and can set up for a quick edge guard. It's just not a high enough percent to lead to a good kill. Utilt leads to nothing or very little. Maybe a dsmash, but that's it, I don't like Utilt very much at all. Sweetspot Bair is possible and will usually keep them on the stage, in a tech chase position and add some good damage, awkward to hit in many cases and the tech chase may be difficult to follow up on. I think sweetspot Dair is optimal at this percent, it does great damage and creates a tech chase situation directly under you, difficult to hit.
50-70% - This is the optimal kill percentage for Roy. I think that at any percentage between 50 and 70 Uthrow to Uair to Fsmash is guaranteed. I think this is Roy's best kill option and a good combo. Getting the perfect Uair sweetspot SHFFL'd into an Fsmash is tricky at 50, but it looks consistent. I'm pretty sure a lot of other combos are guaranteed here, but this is my personal favorite, and will probably be the one I use most. If you have other combos and follow ups, feel free to post.
70-90?% - At this point I think your goal should make every throw an simple edge guard into kill. Uair to Fsmash doesn't work any more, but I think Uthrow to Bair, NeutralB, and Nair are all pretty consistent. Bair and NeutralB have great knockback and kill potential and are what I usually try to land.
90+ - At this point I think trying to convert tech chases into other throws and ground kill moves is a better option
[/collapse]

 

[DMG]

at 30-50% range, couldn't you still try to Uair --> Fsmash after Uthrowing? If they don't DI the throw perfectly, I think you would have enough time maybe? I dunno. Uair into Fsmash is an amazing setup when you can land it obv, I haven't fooled around with exact %'s though so maybe it's not doable at those %'s you listed.

Edit: Yeah it can work at those %'s it looks like, as long as they don't DI or SDI well. With good DI though, they may still be open for dash attack or some other option.

 

[FirexBolt]

D-tilt -> F-air -> U-air -> FF -> L-Cancel -> SHFFL N-air Got this maybe at around 60~ I wasn't paying attention so I apologize for that. It didn't kill, but it was a good combo.

Reverse B-air wrecks spacies at 65-75.

Anyone else noticed that the tip on F-air is really good for edgeguarding when you do two F-air's? (the second one using the tip) I fell like this works wonders against Falco. Speaking of Falco, try to hit Falco's down if you can. His Up-B is thousands of times easier to edgeguard of stage than Fox's, but everybody knows that. If you wanna be safe against either of them, just Counter or Neutral-B.

DMG, or you could just be simple and U-throw -> F-smash

 

[DMG]

I'm never simple with Roy. I want every combo to end with Neutral B offstage

 

[G13_Flux]

Ftilt sets up for tech chases so nicely on fast fillers. Not gonna lie but I think characters like Fox will have a hard time dealing with ftilt. projectile heavy characters would be able to get around it more, but fox, falcon, dk.. it seems like a very effective means at shutting down approaches. I think floaty characters with good projectiles/range are going to be his worst MUs.

 

[DMG]

No. People that hold down are the biggest problem. DK is such a ridiculous MU for him because moves like Ftilt are CC'd at lower % and he ends up getting grabbed. If those characters JUMP, then yes you can swat almost anything away, but grounded it's much harder.

(Falcon vs Roy is legit hard for Falcon though. Ftilt and buffed neutral B are killer against Falcon. Fox is pretty even but DK noooo sir no no)

DK legit may be his hardest MU right now. 2.6 Ivy was the other contender for that title imo.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

DK and Samus are the only CC-heavy characters I ever have problems with specifically because of CC (and maaybe Mewtwo and Peach, but spaced ftilt isn't so punishable for them). It really isn't a big deal f Roy has a decent grab range advantage, but when he doesn't it can become fairly abusable.
On the subject, doesn't the first hit of nair break CC? I'm thinking it will be especially effective for dealing with DK if it can be spaced well enough to avoid a grab should it be shielded. Also, third hit DED has some nice options against CCing, but I've been unable to reliably space it to prevent shielding and/or getting grabbed after the second hit. Dtilt also knocks them down if they're just holding crouch, I think. Anyone worked on reliably following this up?

On the subject of projectiles, What are the best moves to clank with them, now that DED doesn't? I've found jab and fair to be good, safe choices, but the inner ftilt hitbox will eat Razor leaf, Wolf's laser's, Samus's homing missiles, and I believe a few others, and can still stop approaches with the outer hitbox. Nair's two hits also achieve a similar effect.

 

[G13_Flux]

Really DK his hardest MU? Well I honestly don't have to many good DK players around me, so I'll take your word on it at least being difficult. Obviously each of them combo each other extremely hard, so I would say it comes down to who is more effective at approaching and getting inside on the other. It would then make sense since DK has a pretty quick oos option and a larger grab range. His cc will work for longer because of his weight as well.

 

[DMG]

DK is up there for Roy's hardest MU's. Like if any tilt or aerial get's CC'd at low %, and you get grabbed, it's hell. Roy is super combo food for DK, has some of the worst traits for getting out of any vertical DK combo and has a bad enough recovery that cheesy edgeguard setups can mean Roy's death quick. It ain't fun yo.

It also doesn't mean much to grab DK, as a method to get around his CC. We don't have strong guaranteed followups at almost any %.

 

[KariteSama]

2.6 Ivy was the other contender for that title imo.

2.6 Ivy was a bad MU for everyone...

 

[DMG]

She really was bad for Roy though. I did that MU the most when I got to try out "pre-release" Roy and M2. It was playable at first, until the other guy tried doing one action and then waiting. Roy kind of got GG'd by it. It wasn't easy, but was doable to get around patterns like Bair to Razor Leaf, or Double Bair, but once you start doing one option at a time and backing up or waiting it was hell.

Least that creature is gone

 

[StevenBeastMode]

I played an Ivy in a friendly match back at TFP4, and while neither of us are anything special, it wasn't too bad. I feel like the Razor Leaf kinda' shut me down sometimes, but otherwise pretty doable. I'll just have to play a better Ivy and see.

 

[DMG]

This was 2.6 Ivy, mind you. I have no idea how he does against the nerfed Ivy

 

[StevenBeastMode]

Yeah, better apparently.

 

[Xinc]

So generally, Roy has unfavorable matchups against DK and Ivy. Anyone else we missed out on?

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

Ganondorf, bad matchup in Melee definitely follows through in P:M. Maybe not to the horrible 80:20 degree I see the current Melee charts at, but it is still a "if I get touched I die" type of matchup in my experience.