Hydro-crawl/Hydro-reversal AT Discussion Thread

[Daftatt]

This thread is for the discussion the the Hydrocrawl subtree of squirtle Advanced Techniques.

Playing squirtle is like playing street fighter, so many control stick patterns.

Hydro-crawl techniques came out of the discovery of the mooncrawl where squirtle could backwards crawl out of shellshift at incredible speed (the actual animation was increased in speed too). From this came the discovery of hydro-reversal where the beginning of the mooncrawl is canceled into another move

Here's a small video showcasing some of the possibilities with Hydroplane Reversals (aka MoonCrawl). Please take note that some of these aren't performed to the best of their ability. The FSmash for example can go further than what I recorder here if done perfectly. And a small note, all of the smashes can be charged with seemingly no effect to the distance they travel.

there is a forward facing empty hydroplane in Hydro-crawl. Where as little as 1 frame of a psuedo-crawl (when the control stick is in between the backwards crawling position and straight down, which would input a normal crouch)

(shellshift)
(crawl input)
Final stick position of crawl input is shown below, this is my best guess and is a working theory

 

[JCOnyx]

I thought this was common knowledge... I'm currently at work so I'm going to reserve this post for when I get home.

EDIT: Alright, so I had actually brought up this technique in the Squirtle P:M Reddit discussion. It never occurred to me that this method of Hydroplaning could have never been discussed before. Here is my post with the relevant part highlighted for more references:

 

[Daftatt]

I thought this was common knowledge... I'm currently at work so I'm going to reserve this post for when I get home.

Lol implying any squirtle AT is "Common Knowledge", well I knew about it, and I'm sure about 5 other people may have known. But it's a really important AT, and people should practice it to consistency. I definitely wasn't saying I discovered it.

This is more of an effort to have completeness in documentation and classification of the massive amount of squirtle ATs, because sifting through all of our general discussion threads would not be optimal for people coming into the forums to learn, not to mention the existing AT thread is a nightmare to use for reference

The end goal is to make a full guide to playing squirtle, that's gonna be a while though, considering how underutilized some of these ATs are in actual play.

 

[Jamwa]

The forward facing one is amazing. Imagine ducking under Falco's laser and approaching like that. I must learn this.
Burnsy pulled it off with buffer on. What exactly is the input? Just that slightly forward crouch/crawl for 1 frame?
Should test if getting hit by a laser stops the shield-slide momentum (sounds like a new AT... Shield shift? )

 

[JCOnyx]

How I specifically execute it, is right as I'm about to exit my SS, I imitate a moonwalk motion but stop short at the diagonally down and behind position on the control stick. Hold the control stick down in that position too long and you'll get a Hydroplane Reversal, let it go right as soon as you're exiting the SS and you'll get the forward facing Hydroplane.

You technically shouldn't have to do the semi half circle to get this to come out, but since I'm already comfortable with the motion it's just my preference. It also just feels right having two different actions for a reversal and a forward facing hydroplane. I quickly snap the control stick back into the diagonally down and behind position for the Reversal and use the moonwalk motion for the forward facing Hydroplane.

Hope this helps.

Also, is this really a 1 frame technique or am I misunderstanding something? I must be practicing this a ton if I can get it down pretty consistently already.

 

[Daftatt]

The forward facing one is amazing. Imagine ducking under Falco's laser and approaching like that. I must learn this.
Burnsy pulled it off with buffer on. What exactly is the input? Just that slightly forward crouch/crawl for 1 frame?
Should test if getting hit by a laser stops the shield-slide momentum (sounds like a new AT... Shield shift? )

Any hitstun will slow the shield slide a small bit, but, like with hydro-pivot shield, if you are going the max speed you will speed right on through. It's extremely useful for punishing a projectile spammer by hydro-shielding in and grabbing.

The input is very simply to roll the control stick down from the position you input to shellshift, you roll it across the threshold about half way to

So then the final stick position is what the diagram above shows.

Also, is this really a 1 frame technique or am I misunderstanding something? I must be practicing this a ton if I can get it down pretty consistently already.

No the window is larger than that, when I mentioned 1 frame it was in that you can have as little as 1 frame of crouch animation before you cancel it into hydroplaning another move.

 

[JCOnyx]

No the window is larger than that, when I mentioned 1 frame it was in that you can have as little as 1 frame of crouch animation before you cancel it into hydroplaning another move.

Thanks for the clarification. You seem to be able to understand and explain the process behind these techs far more than I can, I still have a lot to learn as a Squirtle main and just generally as a player. Thank you for this as well.

I almost exclusively use FFHydroplanes to pull off Hydroplane FSmashes, DSmashes, Tilts, and Jabs nowadays since it seems to provide more utility, mixup options, and distance. The only techniques I don't generally use with this are UpSmashes and Grabs since it's easier to JC them.

 

[Daftatt]

Thanks for the clarification. You seem to be able to understand and explain the process behind these techs far more than I can, I still have a lot to learn as a Squirtle main and just generally as a player. Thank you for this as well.

no problem, although I should mention that to execute any hydroplane technique to maximum distance, at least one not involving C-stick buffering, is a 1-frame window, as there is a particular frame in the shellshift animation that when canceled gives the most momentum.

Other ATs such as the Shellectric Slide (technically shell-sling JC upsmash, I'm pushing the shellectric slide nickname on this though as the name is grotesque and the technique to important)
Require first a frame perfect shellsling (for maximum distance), then a 4 frame window to cancel the jump-squat into up-smash.

What I'm trying to get across is that if you do any squirtle advanced AT with consistency, it's nothing short of impressive. I myself have to practice the shellectric slide (shell-sling JC upsmash) often so as to maintain my precision with the control stick, I use to have to practice hydrograb to keep from just hydro-jumping (kept missing the 4-frame jump-squat window), but now I always get it. Of course hydro-jump is coincidentally a very complimentary option to hydrograb, since any opponents counter to hydrograb would be to jump or roll towards squirtle, they could throw out an attack but often I find myself hitting the grab armor frames through their hitbox and grabbing anyways.

 

[Burnsy]

I'll never understand Smashers' infatuation with nonsensical AT names. Shellectric slide...? I thought thatd only last for a couple posts, now its being immortalized.

 

[JCOnyx]

I just continue to call it that as a joke, but if it catches on I wouldn't be surprised at all lol.

What I find confusing is that it seems he's calling a Hydroplane UpSmash or a TACUS the Shellectric Slide now where I thought he named the Hydroplane Reversal / Mooncrawl that in the AT thread. Whatever floats his boat I guess.

... Also, off topic a little, why don't you guys have your P:M mains set yet?

 

[_Pixel_]

I'm just waiting for all the names to solidify, I have no idea what to call half my moveset anymore.

 

[Daftatt]

... Also, off topic a little, why don't you guys have your P:M mains set yet?

didn't know about it yet.

We should definitely convene this week to officially pick names for all ATs, settle everything so that we can start on the majestic and glorious task of creating the official guide to playing squirtle
@ ~Dad~

 

[~Dad~]

didn't know about it yet.

We should definitely convene this week to officially pick names for all ATs, settle everything so that we can start on the majestic and glorious task of creating the official guide to playing squirtle
@ ~Dad~

I've got names for everything already. DAFTATT GET IN THAT GOOGLE HANGOUT MAN.

 

[JCOnyx]

I feel like the position the control stick needs to be in order to execute this technique is the same one used for perpetual running. The problem I seem to be encountering, is that I can easily get a forward facing hydroplane out of a SS to the right (meaning I slide the control stick to the bottom left corner) but when I attempt the other direction I can't get it to save my life. I tried doing perpetual runs on a ledge facing to the right and I found myself encountering problems with something as simple as this as well.

I don't know if it's my controller, or if there is actually a difference in stick positions where this phenomenon occurs depending on what direction you're going. It feels as if the control stick needs to be considerably closer to a full crouch when attempting to hydroplane to the left (or perpetual run to the right). If there is some sort of secret to this that I'm missing, or a diagram that shows the sensitivity between running and crawling in P:M (or Brawl if it retains the same windows), it would be nice if you could clue me in.

 

[Burnsy]

Shellectric Slide. ShellShift. ShellSling. Who else sees the issue here?

 

[pluto]

i started playing project m a while back and immediately squirtle was my number one character. i loved the way he moved and how broken some of his physics were. i figured some of these tactics out just by messing around but all of these threads have been SO helpful. i'm attending BH4 in october and i'm trying to learn everything i can about squirtle before i go, so thank you for putting this together! great stuff~

 

[GeZ]

What is this character even. I'd barely touched them and I kept seeing Squirtle mains talk about how they play the most technically complex character and I was like "I can DACUS and WD, this can't be that hard" and now I'm grinding away at this **** like "Why did they give lucario the shoto tatsumaki when squirtle is obviously the most street fighter character".

But seriously, I can't decide whether I want to go down the rabbit hole or avoid this character like the plague. If you've got all this cool stuff why isn't squirtle super tricky, or have crazy amazing players? Does all of this tech end up being extraneous when you just get bopped? It seems like its a lot of unexplored potential, but I'm really wary right now.

 

[Daftatt]

What is this character even. I'd barely touched them and I kept seeing Squirtle mains talk about how they play the most technically complex character and I was like "I can DACUS and WD, this can't be that hard" and now I'm grinding away at this **** like "Why did they give lucario the shoto tatsumaki when squirtle is obviously the most street fighter character".

But seriously, I can't decide whether I want to go down the rabbit hole or avoid this character like the plague. If you've got all this cool stuff why isn't squirtle super tricky, or have crazy amazing players? Does all of this tech end up being extraneous when you just get bopped? It seems like its a lot of unexplored potential, but I'm really wary right now.

No it's absolutely amazing, we don't have any breakout players yet, although I've been practicing really hard for tournaments coming up, but it's literally a case of the character being to complex that no one has mastered him yet because you pretty much have to discover everything for yourself. However if you ever catch me on stream you'll see that squirtle is hands down the fastest most incredibly mobile character in the game.

He's taken a really long time to develop, most squirtle players you see won't do the really really advanced stuff, so I think it's fair to say you've never seen a squirtle with maxed out tech skill, which I guess is kind of my niche even if it doesn't inherently also make me the best player.

All in all, I'd say definitely pick up squirtle, but only if you're ready for the commitment, he is a technical nightmare and has incredibly complicated movement.

 

[Daftatt]

Whoa... Whoa... I just did a hydroreversal and then jumped out of it immediately and flew halfway across the screen up and to the right while back air was out... Crazy stuff. It was like an anti gravity aerial withdraw.

 

[MrHazuki]

It's really nice to see these ATs. I'll try them out. :D

 

[Burnsy]

What is this character even. I'd barely touched them and I kept seeing Squirtle mains talk about how they play the most technically complex character and I was like "I can DACUS and WD, this can't be that hard" and now I'm grinding away at this **** like "Why did they give lucario the shoto tatsumaki when squirtle is obviously the most street fighter character".

But seriously, I can't decide whether I want to go down the rabbit hole or avoid this character like the plague. If you've got all this cool stuff why isn't squirtle super tricky, or have crazy amazing players? Does all of this tech end up being extraneous when you just get bopped? It seems like its a lot of unexplored potential, but I'm really wary right now.

There are simple answers that I'm sure don't surprise you.

1. Most people aren't actually very good at this game yet; this applies to all mains of characters including Squirtle
2. An unpopular character has an underdeveloped meta.
3. People dislike trying to get good at techs that require 1-frame timings.
4. Despite many of these things existing and being known about for over a year, many people ignore tech information that they don't "get" right away

 

[GeZ]

Yeah, I can relate to skill curve johns. I'll stick with Ganon and GnW's fun technical stuff over squirtles stuff. Definitely impressed by your guys dedication to this character. I'll look forward to meeting the real ninja squirtle in tourney, and having it be sick.

 

[fraggle]

so im getting the SS to fast crawl ok but how does that transfer to the rest of the tech? Are you crawling for some frames-releasing-doing a move? I dont totally understand what im seeing in the videos posted. Especially how to do the hydrocrawl/reversal to shield stuff where you keep your momentum but your sliding in shield. if you could please break that down for me i would appreciate it

 

[1FD]

sexy
Squirtle is on my hate list though
I'm watching you

 

[_Pixel_]

>hate list

Everybody hates the Squirtle D: