How Should They Be Represented? Day 5: King K. Rool!

[Mega Bidoof]

Hello everyone, I'm Mega Bidoof!
Welcome to How Should They Be Represented!


This is a thread where every thread we will take a look at a Nintendo character, and will vote for how they should be represented in Smash.
Unlike other votes or polls, we will not be voting for how likely a character is to be playable. Instead, we will vote on what form it should take if it were to be in Smash Bros; playable character, assist trophy, boss, etc.

Your vote should be based on your own personal opinion on the character, and not how likely you think the character is.
Everyone will also receive one nomination each day, which they will use to nominate a character to be voted on a future day.

Now that you know the rules, let's get right to the voting!

Day 5: KING K. ROOL!

King K. Rool is (was ) the main villain of the Donkey Kong Country series!
He is king of the Kremling race, created by RareWare, who constantly terrorizes Donkey Kong Isalnd, and steals all of the Kongs' bananas.
He (next to Ridley) is probably the biggest villain not to be in Smash Bros yet, and as part of the "Smash Elite Four," or the 4 most wanted and deserving characters in the Smash Fanbase, along with Ridley from Metroid, palutena from Kid Icarus, and Little Mac from Punch-Out who has already been confirmed as playable!



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Example of Correctly Made Post:

Toad Representation: Playable Character
Toad is such an iconic Mario character that it is such a surprise he hasn't appeared in Smash Bros. yet. He appeared in blah blah blah blah etc............

Nomination: Tingle

Past Voted Characters:
[collapse=Past Voted Characters]
Toad (Super Mario): 4/3/14 PLAYABLE CHARACTER
[collapse=Toad]
Day 1- Toad: On this first day, why not take a look at an iconic character that everyone knows? That's right everyone! Say hello to Slippy Toad!
[collapse=Toad]

This is a character that many people wanted in Smash since Melee! He is probably one of the most deserving characters, and is the only original Super Mario character that hasn't had his own playable spot on the Smash roster!
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Isaac (GoldenSun): 4/4/14
PLAYABLE CHARACTER
[collapse=Isaac]
Day 2- Isaac: Today we will be taking a look at Isaac from GoldenSun!

Isaac starred as an assist trophy in Brawl, and is probably one of the most wanted character that represents a new series in Smash! I never played GoldenSun, so this is all the information I can provide, so deal with it.

Today vote for how you think Isaac should be represented in Smash Bros, and give a brief justification of why you believe this!
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Sandbag (Super Smash Bros.): 4/7/14
SANDBAG/ITEM
[collapse=Sandbag]
Day 3- Sandbag: Today we will be looking at Sandbag, one of Smash's most iconic original characters.

Ah Sandbag. What can I say about you that I haven't already said? For those of you who don't know who Sandbag is, get off this site. If you really don't know who he is, you don't belong on a Smash Bros. forums. Get out. I hate you.
*ahem*

SO VOTE FOR HOW SANDBAG SHOULD BE REPRESENTED IN SMASH! I know that I'm choosing playable character, and I hope you do too! Or else you will burn with Waluigi in Assist Hell.
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April 8th Direct Character: 4/13/14
Greninja: Playable
Charizard: Standalone Playable
Zero-Suit Samus/Sheik: Transformations

[collapse=Direct Characters]
Day 4: Greninja, Charizard, Zero-Suit Samus, and Sheik
Today we will look at the characters announced during the Smash Bros. Direct (except Yoshi)

The first of these is Greninja, a character who nobody reall expected, probably becausenobody expected a Pokemon Newcomer due to Mewtwo.

Greninja is the final form ofFroakie, the water starter from X and Y.
As the name implies, he is basically a ninja. His attacks consist primarily of water based ninja-esque attacks, like a water shuriken.
Does he deserve to be playable, or should he be a Pokeball Pokemon?
If playable, how should he be so? Should he be standalone, or should he be part of a Pokemon Trainer?

We will also be voting on how Charizard, Zero-Suit Samus, and Sheik should be represented, as they were revealed to be there standalone characters, where as they were transformations before.
Do they really deserve to be standalones, or should they be part of Pokemon Trainer, Samus, and Zelda?

Ignore Yoshi from this picture.
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Nominated Characters:
[collapse=Nominations]
Ridley (Metroid): 7 Nominations
Shulk (Xenoblade Chronicles): 6 Nominations
Duck Hunt Dog (Duck Hunt): 4 Nominations
Ninten (Mother 1/Earthbound Zero): 4 Nominations
Tingle (Legend of Zelda): 4 Nominations
Koopalings (Super Mario): 3 Nominations
Kalos Trainer (Pokemon X&Y): 2 Nominations
Ancient Minister (Super Smash Bros. Brawl): 2 Nominations
Midna (Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess): 2 Nominations
Rhythm Heaven series: 2 Nominations
Wii Fit Trainer (Wii Fit/SSB4): 2 Nominations
Vaati (Legend of Zelda): 2 Nominations
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country): 2 Nominations
Donkey Kong Jr. (Donkey Kong Jr.): 1 Nomination
Non-Specific Action Figure (E3 2012): 1 Nomination
Pac-Man (Pac-Man): 1 Nomination
Brash the Bear (Donkey Kong Country 3): 1 Nomination
Giygas (Mother/Earthbound): 1 Nomination
Dillon (Dillon's Rolling Western): 1 Nomination
Waluigi (Mario): 1 Nomination
Tiki (Fire Emblem): 1 Nomination
Fawful (Mario & Luigi): 1 Nomination
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo): 1 Nomination
Chrom (Fire Emblem Awakening): 1 Nomination
Paper Mario (Paper Mario): 1 Nomination
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening): 1 Nomination



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[Oz37]

Playable character. All the way. He's an iconic member of the Nintendo family and definitely needs/deserves a spot on the roster.

Nomination: Isaac

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Toad Representation: Playable Character
He is such an important and historical character, and the only original Super Mario character that hasn't been playable in Smash yet. He definitely deserves a slot on the roster, and should come right out of Peach's dress immediately!

Nomination: Tingle

 

[Chase]

Toad Representation: Playable Character

Toad is a very important character. I'd expect him for SSB5.

Nomination: Duck Hunt Dog

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Toad: Playable: Only member of the original 5 (Mario, Bowser, Peach, Luigi, and Toad) not playable, really iconic, and plenty of importance.
Nom: Ninten

 

[Marakatu]

I like this thread.

Toad Representation: Playable Character.
He's iconic enough, even among non-gamers. He probaby would be playable if Luigi represented his own series, so the Mario series wouldn't be oversaturated.

Nomination: Donkey Kong Jr.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Toad: Playable

He's been there from the beginning aka Super Mario Bros. He has enough material for a valid set.

Nom: Ridley

 

[Groose]

@ YoshiandToad We need you here, pronto!

Toad: Playable
He's freaking Toad. Outside of perhaps Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Meowth, he's the most iconic Nintendo character not in Smash.

Nomination: Sandbag

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Toad: Move
Toad is an important, popular, and longstanding character.
But he's not a very exceptional one, and while I wouldn't mind him getting in - even if he had the most unique and inspired moveset of the cast - it wouldn't change the fact that as a character he's not much more than the common NPC. You could argue against this with the Pokemon and Villager, but I would be slightly bothered considering the Mario series already has a hefty amount of characters, and also has other, more interesting possible participants that I believe stand above Toad.

Nom: Rhythm Heaven

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Nomination: Sandbag

Some people just want to see Bidoof cry.

Wait a minute.
I bet you just nominated him so you can see everyone post "Sandbag: Sandbag," didn't you?

Toad: Move
Toad is an important, popular, and longstanding character.
But he's not a very exceptional one, and while I wouldn't mind him getting in - even if he had the most unique and inspired moveset of the cast - it wouldn't change the fact that as a character he's not much more than the common NPC. You could argue against this with the Pokemon and Villager, but I would be slightly bothered considering the Mario series already has a hefty amount of characters, and also has other, more interesting possible participants that I believe stand above Toad.

Nom: Rhythm Heaven

What do you mean by Rhythm Heaven?
Do you mean the overall series?

 

[Sobreviviente]

Well toad is already being represented... just a move is fine for now.

Nomination: non-specific action figure.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Toadlayable
The biggest Mario character we have left that's not playable. And stuff other people said.

Nomination:Dr.Piccolo

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Well toad is already being represented... just a move is fine for now.

As I said in the OP, it's not about Likliness.
It is about how you personally feel the character should be represented in a Smash game (not specifically Smash 4).
So deconfirmed status doesn't matter at all.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Nomination:Dr.Piccolo

Mmmmmmm
How about no.

I'm just gonna put down Vaati.

EDIT: DARN YOU MOBILE INTERFACE DOUBLE POST!!!! DARN YOU TO HECK!!!!

 

[Sobreviviente]

As I said in the OP, it's not about Likliness.
It is about how you personally feel the character should be represented in a Smash game (not specifically Smash 4).
So deconfirmed status doesn't matter at all.

Toad is not disconfirmed

Well as a stork supporter i think every single nintendo character should be playable at some point to be honest (seriously, EVERY SINGLE ONE) so, i guess im going to pass this thread...

 

[Hippopotasauce]

What do you mean by Rhythm Heaven?
Do you mean the overall series?

Yes.
Any individual character and most would say something from the range of sticker to assist trophy. It's much more interesting to see what people want out of the series as a whole.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As I said in the OP, it's not about Likliness.
It is about how you personally feel the character should be represented in a Smash game (not specifically Smash 4).
So deconfirmed status doesn't matter at all.

He isnt exactly deconfirmed; sakurai has stated some moves may change from what we see on the Roster.

For me; playable. I think he should be in a Kart,to a- pay homage to the fact that Mario Kart is its own, highly anticipated, booming series; and also to give his uniqueness in moveset some help. He is just too iconic not to be playable, and I think this solves a lot of problems.

Discuss Next: Pacman

 

[TheZombiePig]

Toad: playable.
One of the longest standing, and a very iconic character, whose become playable in many recent Mario games. He's got plenty of power ups and items to pull from these games along with many options from spin-offs.

Nomination: Giygas

 

[BKupa666]

Might as well...

Toad: Move
He may be iconic, but that doesn't warrant him getting an automatic fast-pass into Smash when his moveset potential is comprised of power-up scraps not used by Mario or Luigi, and when so many more unique newcomer options from the Mario series exist (Bowser Jr. and King Boo, for starters).

Nomination: Brash the Bear

 

[Forcerounds]

Toad: Playable. See my posts in the Toad thread because I've written far too much about the subject.

Nominate: Classic Ganon

 

[SmashShadow]

Toad: Playable
His style of gameplay could be very interesting with him being the fastest, smallest, shortest ranged, lightest, strongest, but worst jumper of the Mario group. Honestly, he should've been in back in Melee instead of Doc and Toadsworth or Toadette could replace him as a move.

Nom: Isaac

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Toad: Move

I feel Toad is being served perfectly fine by being part of Peach's moveset. The Mario franchise already has the representation it needs. Even if Toad is iconic, so are Goombas or Koopas.....I'm just not convinced Toad deserves a playable role. They're not growing on trees you know.

Nomination: Isaac

 

[YoshiandToad]

@ YoshiandToad We need you here, pronto!

I came as soon as I could!

Just a forewarning; I'm updating this post when I can think of additional points to make, so you may see edits LONG after the original posting.

Surprising absolutely no-one:

Toad: Playable.
Okay, where to begin even?

Toad is an INCREDIBLY well known character, the most iconic individual(or amongst them, that's a bold claim) not currently in Smash, at one point the 8th most popular VIDEO GAME character in all of Japan(and third from Mario, Yoshi and Mario being the only two to trump him) and still an incredibly popular character in Japan today. The only reason this translates poorly into Smash popularity is because Sakurai seems unlikely to alter him from a rather lame joke B move thus a lot of the Japanese fans have lost hope. But this is HOW THEY SHOULD be represented, not HOW THEY WILL be represented, so let's move on:

Currently Toad is the only reoccurring playable character in the Super Mario series that is yet to reach playable status. Also the only Mario Karter(of which he always ranks highly in the popularity polls for) with a 100% attendance rating not currently in Smash as playable.

Of recent the roles of Toad have only increased; New Super Mario Bros. Wii, NSMB:Wii U and Luigi U have two Toads platforming it up alongside the Mario Bros. and again two Toads are playable in Super Mario 3D World, bringing back his speed from Super Mario Bros. 2, and at the same time also returning Toad to his puzzle roots* from Wario's Woods with the Captain Toad levels.

*Roots; it's a pun, I say, a pun son. Flew right past ya. Nice boy, but doesn't pay attention.

On top of all these things it's worth pointing out that two of Peach's specials are things that would suit Toad far better; her down and B Turnip Pluck and her neutral B Toad Guard. The latter IS obvious(it's easier for Toad to perform this solo than Peach having to yank him out of her dress) but out of all four of the playable characters in SMB2, Peach was by far the worst at turnip plucking, where as Toad, with his super human strength, was the "Da Best". Peach also has some Super Princess Peach moves which frankly deserve more noting than a role she shared with the Mario Bros. and Toad.

So what could Toad do? He isn't unique! (due to space saving I'll be using spoilers)
For the sake of time, let's just focus here on what Toad could use from Wario's Woods alone to make him 'unique'.

Spoiler

Run up Walls: Wario's Woods gave him this ability. To deal with Wario's minions and give Toad(who is still incredibly bad at jumping) a way to deal with this, they allowed him to run up walls, just like a real fungus can't. Should this be implemented in Smash it'd make for an interesting wall cling and climb mechanic.

Super Strength: Toad is capable of lifting several items at once. I feel like this would be a fun ability, especially with items turned on. Having a DK style grab and carry at the very least would prove his 'surprisingly strong' description.

Super bomber: Again, Wario's Woods gives Toad a hoard of coloured bombs each of which do different damage to different enemies. He's also been able to pluck bombs and the like before in SMB2.

This is without diving into the main Mario games where he is clearly the character most associated with items; he hands them out in Toad houses, he uses them himself, in RPGs he's usually the one selling them to you, in Mario 3D Land he showcases how to use the propeller block...you need an item? Come to Toad. He has what you need.

Toad has a lack of options?
Also not true. Let's look at what Toad can do just for an Up + B since his jumping recovery is absolute garbage in game:

Spoiler

Wanda: Summoning his ally and friend from Wario's Woods, Wanda(who unlike Toad isn't iconic enough to warrant a playable slot) carries the mushroom retainer to safety.

Bubble: Toad encases himself in a bubble similar to the Toads in NSMBW/U/LuigiU and SM3DW to slowly float skywards.

Super Jump: The squat down charge jump that allowed Toad to reach new heights in SMB2.

Toad House Cannon: Often seen in the New Super Mario Games, the Toad cannon has been shown to shoot balloons, items, the two playable Toads and even the iconic Toad himself has shot himself out of a cannon in NSMBWU to give chase to the thief Nabbit.

Lakitu recovery: Again, as the only Mario Karter without a playable slot in Smash, Toad could easily also have the Lakitu recovery from Mario Kart.

Propeller Cap: Again, Toad is the character MOST associated with Mario's many many items. NSMB Wii art often depicted one of the two Toads wearing this getup.

Other arguments against Toad that I've seen:
Mario is overrepresented!
Mario IS Nintendo. Mario's sales for both main games and spinoffs are what make up the largest chunk of profit for Nintendo. Mario can have as many damn characters as it likes, because it is the most deserving Nintendo franchise, if not THE most deserving video game franchise of all time.

Toad is a generic species, not a character.
This one gets chucked around A LOT.
Which clearly stopped not only Pokemon, and arguably Yoshi, but also R.O.B.(who was an individual from a generic species of lookalike clones in the SSE) from getting into Smash. If you REALLY want a specific Toad look no further than Captain Toad who is undeniably a character distinct from the rest of his species, as well as a playable character who has exploration gear to work with for a moveset.

Toad is akin to a Goomba or a Koopa Troopa. They're iconic too.
They're also non playable characters who serve little further purpose than to provide a mild obstacle to you the player.
When a Goomba or a Koopa Troopa becomes a reoccurring playable character in a Super Mario series game(not a spinoff) then maybe you'll have a point, but the Toads have defeated Bowser, Wario and Wart. The most Goombas or Koopa Troopas do is occasionally kill inexperienced Mario gamers.

There's a massive difference between a playable character and a minion enemy. If you can't see that you're an idiot frankly.

Toad is lame.
Opinions. We've seen Toad defeat Bowser in 3D World/NSMBWii/U/Luigi U, Wario in Wario's Woods and Wart in SMB2 alongside their armies. Some of the bosses in Wario's Woods included a grim reaper figure, a demon, a dragon and a Ganon-esque figure. I personally think that's pretty cool, but each to their own on this one.

Conclusion:
Toad, no matter what way you look at it is an incredibly iconic Nintendo All Star. He's been there throughout the years, and with him appearing more and more, this fourth instalment I honestly feel like if there was any justice in keeping to the "NINTENDO ALL STARS" original plan, Toad should have been added this instalment, although I can see why he wasn't included in Brawl even with Toad bias.

I would even say that no character of Toad's level deserves to be stapled to another character like an after thought.
Imagine for a moment if Takamaru or Lip got stapled to Captain Rainbow's moveset. Outrage, right? Two obscure Japanese characters being stapled to another obscure Japanese character. People would say it's doing a great disservice to them, and I feel exactly the same way about Toad. Only stronger because I've actually played his games and grown up with him.

Nomination: Isaac.

(Incidentally I love the fact that everyone is against any character who isn't a freaking gimmick these days. I remember when being gimmicky was considered a BAD thing.)

 

[Marakatu]

Imagine for a moment if Takamaru or Lip got stapled to Captain Rainbow's moveset. Outrage, right?

Not really. Lip and Takamaru didn't even get trophies in Brawl. Being part of Captain Rainbow's moveset would actually be progress.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Not really. Lip and Takamaru didn't even get trophies in Brawl. Being part of Captain Rainbow's moveset would actually be progress.

Alright, you got me there.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Toad

Playable.

Much more iconic than Rosalina, much more important than Waluigi, much more long running than Bowser Jr, and has appeared in more games than Paper Mario.
Please don't get mad at me, fans of Rosalina, Waluigi, Bowser Jr and Paper Mario.

He would be unique, seeing as Sakurai would have to go out of his way to make him a semi clone or anything.

Nomination: King K Rool

 

[Zzuxon]

Toad: Playable
Smash is supposed to be a battle of nintendo all-stars. Toad is the greatest all-star not yet in smash. I rest my case.
Nominate: Dillon

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad absolutely needs to be playable in Smash! He's iconic video game character (please note that I said "video game", not "Nintendo") because many people (gamers and casuals alike) recognize him instantly and he's an integral part of the Mario franchise... the Toad species have been playable in both main platformer and spin-off sports/party games... know who else shares this distinction? The Yoshi species. Toad and his people have been playable in some of the most popular platformer games of all time - SMB2, NSMBWii, NSMBU, and SM3DW. And more importantly, he is still relevant to the Mario franchise after almost 30 years... a lot more relevant than Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Rosalina (she is gaining her relevancy though) and even Bowser Jr. (he is losing his relevancy lately).

But Toad is underrated and criticized within the Smash community because it places much emphasis on "unique gameplay" and they perceive Toad as a clone material who would get "power-up scraps that Mario/Luigi/Peach" for his moveset..... and yet they hypocritically accept Rosalina because her gameplay and moveset are so unique when they, in fact, are just things that Mario himself did in both Galaxy games. So what if Toad gets power-up scraps? At least Toad would still have an unique gameplay and moveset because guess what? They are things that Toad and only Toad can do in Smash (it doesn't matter if Mario/Luigi/Peach did any of those things in the Mario games) and it still wouldn't look out of place because Toad actually did those things in the Mario games.

My verdict: Toad should be playable

Nomination: Duck Hunt Dog

 

[BluePikmin11]

Stay with move please, any more roles he has it will be a fork in the head for Toad fans.

Nomination:
Duck Hunt Dog

 

[AncientTobacco]

Toad: Move
It's a generic species, not a character. The current role they have as Peach's move fits them well.

Nomination: Waluigi

 

[BKupa666]

Stuff

Just to clarify since you borrowed my wording, I don't care if Toad uses moves that Mario/Luigi/Peach also use. I do, however, find his core playstyle potential to be quite shallow. Him being "small and strong" pales in comparison to Rosalina being a motherly puppetmaster, Bowser Jr. being a trap-based paint slinger, King Boo being a minion-manipulating floating illusionist, Paper Mario being a form-manipulating summons character...It's more than just "how many flashy moves can we cram into a single moveset?" But whatever, this thread is basically going to end up being a haven for people to vent after their favorite characters have been disconfirmed, as is human nature, so the uniqueness card is getting checked at the door anyway. To each his or her own.

 

[Reader]

Toad could be unique addition to smash bros, but I don't think that the masses of the people would be interested in him. While smash bros is a fight of the Nintendo all-stars (bar third-parties) and while Toad would definitely be an all star and unique, would people really be interested in him? And just going to point out, we already have seven confirmed playable characters from Mario universe and five from Mario series. How many characters could we get from one universe/series? For me, Toad is good as a part of Peach's moveset.

And yes, I know that Wario, Yoshi and the kongs represent their own series, but they are all part of the Mario universe.

 

[Arcadenik]

Just to clarify since you borrowed my wording, I don't care if Toad uses moves that Mario/Luigi/Peach also use. I do, however, find his core playstyle potential to be quite shallow. Him being "small and strong" pales in comparison to Rosalina being a motherly puppetmaster, Bowser Jr. being a trap-based paint slinger, King Boo being a minion-manipulating floating illusionist, Paper Mario being a form-manipulating summons character...It's more than just "how many flashy moves can we cram into a single moveset?" But whatever, this thread is basically going to end up being a haven for people to vent after their favorite characters have been disconfirmed, as is human nature, so the uniqueness card is getting checked at the door anyway. To each his or her own.

Well, we can always make Toad into a grappler-type fighter where he is good at grabbing opponents and picking them up and carrying them around like in SMB2 and NSMBWii+NSMBU.... and give him spores (he can use them in spin-off games and Sakurai made it canonical for Toad to use spores in Smash canon) where he can change characters' statuses... spores that put opponents to sleep, poison them, confuse them, shrink them... imagine that, a character who gives you item effects even when the items are turned off.

 

[shrooby]

Toad: Playable
Everything @ YoshiandToad said.
Nomination: Sandbag

Just to clarify since you borrowed my wording, I don't care if Toad uses moves that Mario/Luigi/Peach also use. I do, however, find his core potential to be quite shallow. Him being "small and strong" pales in comparison to Rosalina being a motherly puppetmaster, Bowser Jr. being a trap-based paint slinger, King Boo being a minion-manipulating floating illusionist, Paper Mario being a form-manipulating summons character...But whatever, this thread is basically going to end up being a haven for people to vent after their favorite characters have been disconfirmed, as is human nature, so the uniqueness card is getting checked at the door anyway. To each his or her own.

I suppose it just comes down to why one supports characters in the first place. There really isn't any right or wrong way to do it since it is just who we want to be playable. I, for example, like to look at whether a character is "All-Star material" (I don't really want to use that phrase, but I can't think of a better one right now.), and then I dive into whether or not they'd actually be an interesting addition outside just who they are. That's not to say I never lean away from that philosophy though. It's arguable whether some of the characters I support are really "All-Stars" or not, and it's also arguable whether some of the characters I don't support are. But, arguable exceptions aside, that's how I like to look at it in most cases. I fully acknowledge that Toad, as well as some of the other characters I support, wouldn't be able to bring with them some incredibly unique playstyle. Sometimes movesets don't matter as much as the actual character themselves. Or vice-versa. Or maybe one sees them as equally important. As I said, there's no right or wrong way to look it, especially when it comes to something so arbitrary, so try to not seem so condescending as in that second to last sentence. Sorry for interpreting it that way if it wasn't your intention. That just seemed to be the implication to me.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Toads Representation: Peach-B Attack & Adventure Mode
If Adventure Mode returns, I think Toad should have some sort of supportive role in the Mario Level. If he guides the player, or just runs in the back as in Melee's Adventure Mode... or perhaps tons of different couloured Toads to be in the Background. But he is a fun little easter egg for Peach's move. I like it that way.

Nomination: Chibi-Robo

 

[Arcadenik]

Here are some gameplay ideas that I quickly typed on my phone while I'm commuting back home from school (and I'm hungry and the phone battery is dying). I'll be back to discuss this more here or at the Toad support thread later.

Suppose Toad gets iceballs (B) and the ability to pick up and carry enemies like in SMB2 (Down+B)...

1. What can Toad do with iceballs?

He could freeze opponents into blocks of ice like how Ice Climbers do with Blizzard and Lucas does with PK Freeze. Toad could freeze opponents if the opponents have 100% or more damage. Also, compared to Mario's fireballs, Toad's iceballs move slower and they bounce once but they do bounce much higher and they inflict more percentage damage. Toad can throw up to two iceballs at a time just like Mario with his fireballs. The iceballs could also cancel out charged launching moves - meaning they stop moves such as Jigglypuff's Rollout, Luigi's Green Missile, and Ike's Quick Draw (like the police saying, "freeze! don't move!") - but they do not encase opponents in blocks of ice unless they already have high percentage damage.

2. What can Toad do with frozen opponents?

Unlike other characters, Toad could have the unique ability to stand on frozen opponents like if they were solid platforms. And while Toad is atop the frozen opponent, Toad could pick up and carry them around like in SMB2 and especially NSMB games. Toad could also throw frozen opponents at other opponents, especially if the opponent is trying to recover. This is called a deadweight KO (I think that's how Melee defined it).

Toad could also do like what he did in Wario's Woods by merely kicking the frozen opponent across the stage like if they were rolling crates. Frozen opponents that slide across the stage would hurt other opponents when they collide with each other or get themselves hurt when they collide with explosives.

3. What can Toad do when he picks up opponents who are not frozen inside blocks of ice?

He can still carry them around, throw them off the stage, throw them at recovering opponents, throw them towards stage hazards and explosives... but if the opponent is not frozen, Toad could use the opponent as a human shield... just like how Peach does with Toad... using opponents to counter other opponent and to guard himself from stage hazards with another input of Down+B... the only character who could escape this move would probably be Rosalina with the help from her Luma... but other characters could escape this move if they were already carrying explosives like Bob-ombs and Link's bombs. Opponents cannot escape this move like they can with Donkey Kong's grab move... because Toad possesses superhuman strength and enemies did not escape in SMB2 either.

 

[PixelPasta]

I was going to do a pro-playable Toad write-up, but I feel like it would be rehashing what has already been said by my fellow Toad fans. YoshiandToad sums it up perfectly:

Toad, no matter what way you look at it is an incredibly iconic Nintendo All Star. He's been there throughout the years, and with him appearing more and more, this fourth installment I honestly feel like if there was any justice in keeping to the "NINTENDO ALL STARS" original plan, Toad should have been added this installment, although I can see why he wasn't included in Brawl even with Toad bias.

I agree with all of this. Well done, friend; you've nailed it.

 

[BKupa666]

@ shrooby Condescension was not my goal, hope it didn't come off as such. I was referring to how, after pretty much every disconfirmation we've had thus far, with Skull Kid, Ashley, Waluigi, and the like, the immediate reaction has been, "Oh, man, they're not gonna be playable but they totally could/should have been." This thread will more likely than not exacerbate that once more info emerges, IMO.

@ Arcadenik I'm not a fan of "give them a command grab" options, since for characters like Toad and Dixie, it's either a glorified regular grab or an imitation of DK's existing technique, rather than something fresh like a Bowser chomp-and-toss or a potential Ridley grab-and-drag move. That ice idea you just posted is definitely cool (no pun intended), but...it gets at the idea I mentioned earlier. I have a preference for characters who come part-and-parcel with unique playstyles, not which blank slates can feature the most flashy moves in one moveset.

Oh, another general idea for Toad: If each character gets their own Adventure Mode, Toads should totally be the level enemies for the villains, as you help them invade the Mushroom Kingdom and whatnot.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I suppose it just comes down to why one supports characters in the first place. There really isn't any right or wrong way to do it since it is just who we want to be playable. I, for example, like to look at whether a character is "All-Star material" (I don't really want to use that phrase, but I can't think of a better one right now.), and then I dive into whether or not they'd actually be an interesting addition outside just who they are. That's not to say I never lean away from that philosophy though. It's arguable whether some of the characters I support are really "All-Stars" or not, and it's also arguable whether some of the characters I don't support are. But, arguable exceptions aside, that's how I like to look at it in most cases. I fully acknowledge that Toad, as well as some of the other characters I support, wouldn't be able to bring with them some incredibly unique playstyle. Sometimes movesets don't matter as much as the actual character themselves. Or vice-versa. Or maybe one sees them as equally important. As I said, there's no right or wrong way to look it, especially when it comes to something so arbitrary, so try to not seem so condescending as in that second to last sentence. Sorry for interpreting it that way if it wasn't your intention. That just seemed to be the implication to me.

Very much this. I couldn't give less of a damn about gimmicky movesets, but want to play as actual "All Stars" regarding each series. Obviously this is open to interpretation, but it's one of the reasons I'll support something like Duck Hunt Dog over Takamaru, as the former is hugely known worldwide and the latter I hadn't heard of until Captain Rainbow came out.

For me the only remaining All Stars of Mario are Toad and Bowser Jr, and even though I dislike the latter I can see his overall importance on the series over a character like Waluigi who I prefer but is a lesser known individual with less of an impact on the series. Again, open to interpretation for the individual, but in the case of Toad I feel strongly he's instantly recognized worldwide and thus an All Star.

Oh, another general idea for Toad: If each character gets their own Adventure Mode, Toads should totally be the level enemies for the villains, as you help them invade the Mushroom Kingdom and whatnot.

Actually quite a nice idea and I'd be down with this too for the villains. Whilst I'm obviously leaning towards wanting Toad as playable, I'd rather he be ANYTHING but that damn neutral B move. An Assist Trophy is better than that even, jeez, or hell alternatively use MORE Toads in Peach's moveset if you have to ala Dedede with the Waddle Dees or Rosalina with Lumas.

I wonder if we can nominate characters that actually have been announced or whether that'd be flamebaiting. I'd be interested to see if there was ANY controversial opinions regarding the newcomers we've received or whether people will happily accept anything providing Sakurai puts his stamp on it...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I wonder if we can nominate characters that actually have been announced or whether that'd be flamebaiting. I'd be interested to see if there was ANY controversial opinions regarding the newcomers we've received or whether people will happily accept anything providing Sakurai puts his stamp on it...

You can go ahead and nominate one if you want, but I'm pretty sure that everyone will say playable to all of them, except maybe Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer.