"How *high* can you go?" -A database of crouch cancel percentages.

[ChivalRuse]

Nothing is more reliable than a sure thing. That's why this thread exists.

Moves with in-the-middle cooldown animations (i.e., average recovery time) are more difficult (than laggy moves, like Marth's f-smash) to both defend and counter using out of shield tactics. For example, Sheik's f-tilt, if properly spaced, on Falcon's shield, is virtually unpunishable. However, if Falcon CC's the tilt, he can dash grab her before she puts back her foot.

Hence this thread! It's really really nice to know if your percentage is low enough to crouch cancel a particular move. Every move in the game has an exact percentage threshold. If you cross that limit, your CC will not succeed. Instead, you will be forced into the lying-on-the-ground state (faceplant). This mechanic is often referred to as CC "breaking".

You can test exact percentages yourself! Go into training mode. Set the CPU to Human. Set the CPU percentage to a number of your choice. Have player 1 perform the attack you wish to test, while simultaneously holding down on player 2's control stick. Was the move successfully crouch cancelled or not? You can work your way up or down - it doesn't matter which - until, voila, you have your threshold!

Does move staleness affect this at all?

Yes. The "true" crouch cancel threshold lies in the percentage you are left with after a move has dealt damage (staled moves inflict less damage, which has direct bearing on whether or not the crouch cancel succeeds). However, I have decided to use the percentage before a move connects as the marker - a practical interpretation, since CCing is more effective to us if we only have to worry about current percentages (rather than blindly CCing). Saves us having to do the math and, ultimately, from memorizing more numbers.

The following are the highest percentages that a particular character can successfully crouch cancel a specific move. All moves are assumed to be unstaled. In other words, you can crouch cancel these moves a bit higher if they're staled!



Peach's sweetspotted dash attack:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 42%
Bowser: 47%
Peach: 39%
Yoshi: 44%
DK: 46%
Captain Falcon: 43%
Ganondorf: 44%
Falco: 37%
Fox: 35%
Ness: 40%
Ice Climbers: 39%
Kirby: Crouches too low!
Samus: 45%
Zelda/Sheik: 39%
Link: 43%
Young Link: 38%
Pichu: 30%
Pikachu: 37%
Jigglypuff: Crouches too low!
Mewtwo: 38%
Mr. Game and Watch: Crouches too low!
Marth: 38%
Roy: 38%


Sheik's f-tilt:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 91%
Bowser: 99%
Peach: 86%
Yoshi: 95%
DK: 98%
Captain Falcon: 93%
Ganondorf: 95%
Falco: 81%
Fox: 79%
Ness: 88%
Ice Climbers: 85%
Kirby: 76%
Samus: 96%
Zelda/Sheik: 86%
Link: 93%
Young Link: 84%
Pichu: 69%
Pikachu: 81%
Jigglypuff: 71%
Mewtwo: 84%
Mr. Game and Watch: 71%
Marth: 85%
Roy: 84%


Falcon's side-b (Raptor boost):

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 47%
Bowser: 52%
Peach: 45%
Yoshi: 49%
DK: 51%
Captain Falcon: 48%
Ganondorf: 50%
Falco: 42%
Fox: 40%
Ness: 46%
Ice Climbers: 44%
Kirby: 39%
Samus: 50%
Zelda/Sheik: 45%
Link: 48%
Young Link: 43%
Pichu: 35%
Pikachu: 42%
Jigglypuff: 36%
Mewtwo: 43%
Mr. Game and Watch: 36%
Marth: 44%
Roy: 43%


Sheik's sweetspotted dash attack:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 70%
Bowser: 77%
Peach: 66%
Yoshi: 74%
DK: 76%
Captain Falcon: 72%
Ganondorf: 74%
Falco: 62%
Fox: 60%
Ness: 68%
Ice Climbers: 66%
Kirby: 58%
Samus: 74%
Zelda/Sheik: 66%
Link: 72%
Young Link: 64%
Pichu: 52%
Pikachu: 62%
Jigglypuff: 54%
Mewtwo: 64%
Mr. Game and Watch: 54%
Marth: 65%
Roy: 64%


Ganondorf's side-b:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 31%
Bowser: 39%
Peach: 32%
Yoshi: 36%
DK: 38%
Captain Falcon: 35%
Ganondorf: 37%
Falco: 29%
Fox: 28%
Ness: 33%
Ice Climbers: 31%
Kirby: 27%
Samus: 27%
Zelda/Shehik: 32%
Link: 35%
Young Link: 30%
Pichu: 23%
Pikachu: 29%
Jigglypuff: 24%
Mewtwo: 30%
Mr. Game and Watch: 24%
Marth: 31%
Roy: 30%


Ganondorf's dash attack:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 59%
Bowser: 65%
Peach: 55%
Yoshi: 62%
DK: 64%
Captain Falcon: 60%
Ganondorf: 62%
Falco: 51%
Fox: 50%
Ness: 57%
Ice Climbers: 54%
Kirby: 48%
Samus: 62%
Zelda/Sheik: 55%
Link: 60%
Young Link: 53%
Pichu: 42%
Pikachu: 51%
Jigglypuff: 44%
Mewtwo: 53%
Mr. Game and Watch: 44%
Marth: 54%
Roy: 53%


Fox's dash attack:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 114%
Bowser: 124%
Peach: 108%
Yoshi: 119%
DK: 122%
Captain Falcon: 116%
Ganondorf: 119%
Falco: 102%
Fox: 99%
Ness: 110%
Ice Climbers: 107%
Kirby: 96%
Samus: 120%
Zelda/Sheik: 108%
Link: 116%
Young Link: 105%
Pichu: 87%
Pikachu: 102%
Jigglypuff: 90%
Mewtwo: 105%
Mr. Game and Watch: 90%
Marth: 106%
Roy: 105%


Falco's dash attack:

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 90%
Bowser: 98%
Peach: 85%
Yoshi: 94%
DK: 97%
Captain Falcon: 92%
Ganondorf: 94%
Falco: 80%
Fox: 77%
Ness: 87%
Ice Climbers: 84%
Kirby: 75%
Samus: 95%
Zelda/Sheik: 85%
Link: 92%
Young Link: 82%
Pichu: 67%
Pikachu: 80%
Jigglypuff: 70%
Mewtwo: 82%
Mr. Game and Watch: 70%
Marth: 83%
Roy: 82%

Popo's f-air: (Ice Climbers' synched f-air is un-CC'able beyond 9%, except in the case of Pichu, who, inexplicably, can CC a synched f-air as high as 38%)

Doc/Mario/Luigi: 63%
Bowser: 70%
Peach: 60%
Yoshi: 66%
DK: 68%
Captain Falcon: 65%
Ganondorf: 68%
Falco: 56%
Fox: 54%
Ness: 61%
Ice Climbers: 59%
Kirby: 52%
Samus: 67%
Zelda/Sheik: 60%
Link: 65%
Young Link: 58%
Pichu: 47%
Pikachu: 56%
Jigglypuff: 49%
Mewtwo: 58%
Mr. Game and Watch: 49%
Marth: 59%
Roy: 58%


I will be updating this thread as necessary. If you are too lazy to test other moves out for yourself, I'll do it for you by request (post in this thread).

 

[Jim Morrison]

Interesting to see which character has good crouch canceling and who does not. Seems like it's in relation with a combination of fall speed + weight.

 

[Pi]

Key:
ua - Up Angled
na - Normal Angled
da - Down Angled
stumble - Where samus kinda stands on 1 foot, like when you get Dair'd at low %'s by falco or samus or someone, you know what I'm talking about
ss - Sweet Spot
strong - Strongest hit of the move
weak - Weakest hit of the move
front - Part of the move that hits in front of the character
back - Part of the move that hits behind the character
whole - Where I was lazy and didn't wanna pick out the individual hits of a multihit move so I juss did the whole move's % delt
first hit & last hit - should be self explanatory along w/ most this stuff lol

Format:
Move name - Max% Delt - Min% Delt || Min% CCable - Max% CCable

Also, keep in mind that the Max% CCable is dependent upon your damage AFTER having received the hit


Doctor Mario

• Jab(1) - 4% - 2% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Jab(2) - 3% - 2% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Jab(3) - 6% - 5% || 0% - 156%
  [*]Ftilt (ua) - 9% - 4% || 0% - 123%
  [*]Ftilt (na) - 8% - 4% || 0% - 137%
  [*]Ftilt (da) - 7% - 3% || 0% - 154%
  [*]Utilt - 10% - 5% || 0% - 108%
  [*]Dtilt - 9% - 4% || 0% - 140%
  [*]Fsmash (ua) - 20% - 11% || 0% - 50%
  [*]Fsmash (na) - 19% - 9% || 0% - 52%
  [*]Fsmash (da) - 18% - 9% || 0% - 55%
  [*]Usmash - 16% - 8% || Stumble - 0% - 58%
  [*]Dsmash (front) - 18% - 9% || 0% - 60%
  [*]Dsmash (back) - 15% - 8% || 0% - 77%
  [*]Neutral B - 8% - 4% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Side B - 12% - 6% || 0% - 999% ()
  [*]UpB (first hit) - 5% - 2% || 0% - 999%
  [*]UpB (last hit) - 3% - 1% || 0% - 95%
  [*]Down B (whole) - 13% - 7% || Last hit - 0% - 48%
  [*]Nair (strong) - 14% - 7% || 0% - 76%
  [*]Nair (weak) - 10% - 5% || 0% - 101%
  [*]Uair - 10% - 5% || 0% - 126%
  [*]Fair (ss) - 17% - 9% || 0% - 40%
  [*]Fair - 16% - 8% || 0% - 50%
  [*]Dair (whole) - 19% - 11% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Bair (ss) - 8% - 4% || 0% - 150%
  [*]Bair - 7% - 3% || 0% - 135% (not mixed up, a ss'd bair can be CC'd longer than a non ss'd one)

Who knew there were so many different variables to attacks >.>
Not me.

Any way
Taking requests on characters you guys want to see done, from anyone
Also if you want to help, feel free
And open to suggestions, for the format of this thread or on anything else, sept on better ways to spend my time, jajaja.
Also if any of you want to know about CCing charged smashes i guess I could do those, but like...lol

Project I started

It's a lot of work T.T, especially if you intend to do angled smashes/tilts

Also this is just info for doc vs. samus

 

[Kyu Puff]

Are the percentages taken before or after the move deals its damage?

Could you test IC's f-air and f-tilt? I would do it but my wii and gamecube are both dysfunctional. If it's too tedious to do every character, the percentages against Peach and Doc would be especially useful.

 

[Pi]

hm wait
nvm

 

[ChivalRuse]

Are the percentages taken before or after the move deals its damage?

Before it does damage.

Could you test IC's f-air and f-tilt? I would do it but my wii and gamecube are both dysfunctional. If it's too tedious to do every character, the percentages against Peach and Doc would be especially useful.

Sure.

 

[otg]

You should change the color scheme, the blue names are kinda hard to read.

 

[Wobbles]

Does move staleness affect this at all?

 

[Vro]

Amazing thread

 

[ChivalRuse]

Does move staleness affect this at all?

Yes. The "true" crouch cancel threshold lies in the percentage you are left with after a move has dealt damage (staled moves inflict less damage, which has direct bearing on whether or not the crouch cancel succeeds). However, I have decided to use the percentage before a move connects as the marker - a practical interpretation, since CCing is more effective to us if we only have to worry about current percentages (rather than blindly CCing). Saves us having to do the math and, ultimately, from memorizing more numbers.

 

[hungrybox]

awesome thread!

 

[Vro]

Wanna find the info for Falco's dair and Fox's nair/upsmash?

 

[Winston]

Sorry to make more suggestions without contributing, but isn't it just as useful/more useful to know the percents at which you can do the ASDI down on these moves?

 

[j00t]

Are you saying GnW can duck under Peach's dash attack?

That's really important info.

 

[AXE 09]

Sorry to make more suggestions without contributing, but isn't it just as useful/more useful to know the percents at which you can do the ASDI down on these moves?

This is what I would very much like to see as well. In most of my matches, I usually find myself getting punished when my opponent ASDI's down, rarely while they're actually CCing.

I think a good way to test this is to go into training mode, have 1 character Taunt and hold down at the same time, then attack the taunting character with whatever move you want to test.

Someone should definitely do this


On another note:

Thank you so much ChivalRuse for making this thread. This is also very useful =)

 

[Ripple]

I thought roy had a better CC than marth? guess I was wrong

 

[TheManaLord]

old/10

got this kind of info on gfaqs and dc hub

but compiled and nice and fresh is better so carry on

 

[Tee ay eye]

someone should test marth's tipper fair and tipper uair

sheiks everything from the air except uair

 

[Juggleguy]

Thanks for the thread, ChivalRuse.

Someone please test Fox's nair and bair!

My only question is, how much percentage threshold difference is there between getup attacks? It's always funny to CC an opponent's getup attack then go in to grab them. If someone could just provide character data on an average getup attack, it would be really useful.

 

[oakleaf]

Tmi

Great idea indeed!

It's always great to have more data. Though, I think it would be more interesting to have someone analyse this data, and provide something that can be remembered.

That is to say, nobody can memorize that roy jab can be ASDI'ed down be Yoshi until X%, where as everybody can remember something like "light jabs can be ASDI'ed down be Yoshi until around X%". I mean, it would be useful to have general knowledge of ASDI of the characters individually. The whole precise data is too much to handle during a game. Not useless though.

So really, I'm interested in generalities: a tiers-list of the best characters for ASDI overall, an overview of the ASDI possibilities, character by character, etc.

 

[Metal Reeper]

This is an amazing post thanks, I'm hoping to help with this maybe later, but I am extremely lazy =/

 

[CTL17]

Someone has a lot of time this summer.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I am currently not updating this unless people make requests, I'll be happy to do that when I get the time, so far this is what I've gathered.

Falco's GUA (Get Up AttacK)----

Fox - 90%
Falco - 96%
Marth - 100%
Sheik - 101%
Puff - 93%
Falcon - 109%
Samus - 112%
IC - 100%
Peach - 102%
Ganon - 112%
Doc - 106%
Luigi - 107%

When I tested this on IC's popo would CC the GUA(Get up attack) but nana didn't maybe because I GUA'd too early?

Also If Luigi CC's this (And I guess any other attack IDK) he slides very far away, so I would think CCing wouldn't be of use to Luigi.



Fox's Nair-----

Fox - 75%
Marth - 81%
Sheik - 82%
Falco - 77%
Peach - 81%
Falcon - 90%
Puff - 68%
IC - 81%
Ganon - 91%
Doc - 87%
Luigi - 87%
Samus - 92%

Fox's Bair------ (This was hard for me to do because I had to CC with 1 controller, and Bair without C-stick on other.

Fox - 65
Marth - 67
Sheik - 79
Falco - 68
Peach - 74
Puff - 61
Falcon - 79
Falco - 68
Doc - 77
IC - 72
Ganon - 81
Samus - 81
Luigi - 77

Falco's Dair-------

Fpx - 76
Falco - 77
Marth - 81
Sheik - 82
Peach - 82
Puff - 68
Falcon - 89
Doc - 87
IC - 81
Ganon - 91
Samus - 91
Luigi - 87

Yeah....Nair and Dair % are suprisingly similar

Falco's Nair-----

Fox - 75
Falco - 70
Marth - 81
Sheik - 82
Peach - 82
Puff - 68
Falcon - 89
Doc - 87
IC - 81
Samus - 91
Ganon - 91
Luigi - 87

Yeah....Nair and Dair % are suprisingly similar

 

[Metal Reeper]

someone should test marth's tipper fair and tipper uair

I would test this but not sure if I could actually tipper it...

 

[Juggleguy]

Much appreciated, Metal Reeper.

 

[AXE 09]

(This was hard for me to do because I had to CC with 1 controller, and Bair without C-stick on other.

Not sure if this helps or not, but you could plug in the controller while holding up on the control stick, so that way the character will crouch by him/herself and you won't have to worry about it lol.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Not sure if this helps or not, but you could plug in the controller while holding up on the control stick, so that way the character will crouch by him/herself and you won't have to worry about it lol.

OMG Axe I love you, I forgot all about that lol, and then I can just reset the control stick later ;] I was originally doing it with my foot =/ thanks. (Also best combo video ever, you should of beat IKM2, actually watched axe effect yesterday lol <3)

Also going to a smashfest today so I probably won't have data today =/ but if I can get some requests before 3pm eastern time I will do it <3 IM me.

 

[G.L.]

this thread is awsome, really useful stuff

 

[Ryuker]

Just a question. Does the amount of time the move is used in sequence influence the max crouch cancel percentage? Or does it only influence the knockback and percentage dealt?

 

[Metal Reeper]

Just a question. Does the amount of time the move is used in sequence influence the max crouch cancel percentage? Or does it only influence the knockback and percentage dealt?

No stale moves do effect CC my stats are as if the moves are as stale as possible, so if the move is fresh then my %'s should be off by maybe like 5% no big deal. I just hope people don't take the data as exact numbers and more of a generalization. Trying to find the fresh %'s would take ever....at least I'd think so.

 

[PB&J]

lambchops is extremely good at crouch canceling attacks..play him at apex and see..its annoying at times

 

[Metal Reeper]

Uggh I wanna do more testing but my little brother has taken my melee =/ hopefully later I'll figure out Get-up-attacks

 

[Dark Sonic]

btw you should also make a list of percents where you're able to crouch cancel by holding down DURING the hit, not just before (basically, when you can stay grounded just by ASDIing down)

You're not always going to have enough time to crouch before getting hit, and without crouching beforehand you don't get the reduced knockback that would prevent you from going into tumble at higher percents.

For example, you listed Marth as being able to crouch cancel Falco's dash attack until 82%. In practice, this doesn't happen because most of the time that Marth gets hit by a dash attack, it's during the endlag of one of his moves. Thus he's unable to crouch before getting hit, so he takes the full knockback of the dash attack and is sent into tumble (though ASDI may still be enough to make him collide with the ground at this percent though).

 

[Metal Reeper]

@Dark Sonic

There is no way im testing something like that.

And I should be updating Get Up Attacks on...hopefully Monday.

 

[Tee ay eye]

i think this should be stickied

 

[Nø Ca$h]

someone test getup attacks please!

 

[Metal Reeper]

I was gonna test them, but my PC is gone right now, at a friends house =/