The King of Klones (the Ganon character design thread)

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

MODERATOR NOTE: Hey, everyone. Due to an admittedly silly volume of threads about Ganon being a clone, having an inappropriate moveset, etc. I feel it's time to consolidate everything into one thread, so that everyone can discuss these things in an organized way.

Think Ganon should be more faithful to the games? Welcome.
Wonder what Ganon would be like as a cat? Welcome.
Should Ganon have his sword, with which to carve the dimensions? Welcome.
Should they finally declone Falcon, so that the King may radiate as the one true wielder and possessor this moveset? Welcome.

Willkommen in der Dunkelheit, Könige der Finsternis.


Seriously, the fact that he's still a Falcon clone is baffling. Stop saying he shouldn't be changed because you can win as him currently. Smash Bros. isn't only about playing a character you can win with. It's about Nintendo's series and characters being well represented in a fighting game. Ganondorf is not a well represented right now, and he deserves a Zelda based moveset after 13 years of lazy cloning. Don't say "Waaah! I don't want him to change cuz I wouldn't win!!!!" Get over it. This is Smash Bros. Disagree all you want, but character representation should always come before your ability to win a competitive fight. Learn to change, and get over it.

 

[Enderwoman]

I love Ganondorf as he is.

 

[PSIBoy]

Bit harsh and very unsympathetic too be honest to those who like 'Falcondorf'. I can see your point, but Sakurai has already said that he hates changing characters drastically precisely to avoid alienating those who like playing the characters as is (more than I can say than Project M...). In other words, yes, Ganondorf should probably get new moves like perhaps Dead Man's Volley and use the sword (or trident) more, but your tone is very rude. Besides, Ganondorf plays completely different than Falcon. Falcon is more rush-down while Ganon is punish-centered. At worst, he is a semi-clone.

And if it weren't for the fact he was more of a clone in the first place, I'm not sure if he would've gotten in Melee to be honest. I heard he was a last minute addition along with Roy, Young Link, Pichu, and Doctor Mario to boost the roster from 20 characters to 25. Like Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario in this iteration.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Bit harsh and very unsympathetic too be honest to those who like 'Falcondorf'. I can see your point, but Sakurai has already said that he hates changing characters drastically precisely to avoid alienating those who like playing the characters as is (more than I can say than Project M...). In other words, yes, Ganondorf should probably get new moves like perhaps Dead Man's Volley and use the sword (or trident) more, but your tone is very rude. Besides, Ganondorf plays completely different than Falcon. Falcon is more rush-down while Ganon is punish-centered. At worst, he is a semi-clone.

And if it weren't for the fact he was more of a clone in the first place, I'm not sure if he would've gotten in Melee to be honest. I heard he was a last minute addition along with Roy, Young Link, Pichu, and Doctor Mario to boost the roster from 20 characters to 25. Like Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario in this iteration.

I really wish he hadn't gotten into Melee. That way he wouldn't be stuck with this clone curse for eternity.

 

[Vermanubis]

That may baffle you, but what baffles me is why you think Captain Falcon's not a clone of Ganon.

That is, I'm mad they didn't declone Falcon.

 

[Enderwoman]

Decloning Ganondorf would just alienate people who like playing as him (like myself), and the only good it would do is pleasing Zelda fans who already have 3 other perfectly represented characters.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Decloning Ganondorf would just alienate people who like playing as him (like myself), and the only good it would do is pleasing Zelda fans who already have 3 other perfectly represented characters.

What about the many Ganondorf fans who would main Ganondorf were he not a lazy clone. I don't care if Zelda has "Three other reps". I don't want characters to rep a series, I want characters to be fun to plays and give me a chance to see how a certain character would fight in their respected game series. Nobody actually wants characters for series representation, they want them because they're good characters who would have fun and interesting movesets. Believe me, I only have 4 friends who play Smash Bros. IRL and they all wish Ganondorf were better represented.

 

[Enderwoman]

What about the many Ganondorf fans who would main Ganondorf were he not a lazy clone. I don't care if Zelda has "Three other reps". I don't want characters to rep a series, I want characters to be fun to plays and give me a chance to see how a certain character would fight in their respected game series. Nobody actually wants characters for series representation, they want them because they're good characters who would have fun and interesting movesets. Believe me, I only have 4 friends who play Smash Bros. IRL and they all wish Ganondorf were better represented.

Oh, so basically you're basically telling me that they should just alienate a group of players just because of your personal preference. You've got a roster of 51 characters to choose from and you can't deal with this one guy you don't like playing as. Cry me a river.

Also, you don't speak for everybody. Don't tell me nobody wants a character in Smash Bros to represent something when that is clearly far from the truth.

 

[PSIBoy]

What about the many Ganondorf fans who would main Ganondorf were he not a lazy clone. I don't care if Zelda has "Three other reps". I don't want characters to rep a series, I want characters to be fun to plays and give me a chance to see how a certain character would fight in their respected game series. Nobody actually wants characters for series representation, they want them because they're good characters who would have fun and interesting movesets. Believe me, I only have 4 friends who play Smash Bros. IRL and they all wish Ganondorf were better represented.

Be careful with declaring 'nobody' or 'everybody'. There is always a person in the world who will disagree with you. Like people want Inkling for the purpose of advertising Splatoon. Of course, there's the unique moveset involved, but that doesn't change the fact that Inkling will likely increase interest and sales of Splatoon, like Marth and Roy did for Fire Emblem in Melee.

 

[Blade Knight]

Sorry bro but he shouldn't get a new moveset, it'd be too alienating to players attatched to the current Ganon. Twilight Princess Ganondorf is gonna be Falcondorf forever. Better to bank your hopes on Toon Ganondorf, Warriors Ganondorf, or just plain ol Ganon to show up with a unique moveset someday.

Either way, Falcondorf is manly as **** and he's super satisfying to play so I don't get why people are hatin'.

 

[Zanestat]

What about the many Ganondorf fans who would main Ganondorf were he not a lazy clone. I don't care if Zelda has "Three other reps". I don't want characters to rep a series, I want characters to be fun to plays and give me a chance to see how a certain character would fight in their respected game series. Nobody actually wants characters for series representation, they want them because they're good characters who would have fun and interesting movesets. Believe me, I only have 4 friends who play Smash Bros. IRL and they all wish Ganondorf were better represented.

Well a lot of people find ganondorf fun to plays, you should not judge our preference of characters, and at this point he is at most a semi-clone. Plus no complaining about clones, play a lot of other fighting games have clones that are ten times worse. Play some other fighting games and you will learn to respect a lot of clones in smash bros.

 

[Xinc]

Honestly, he's not a clone. Semi-clone, yes, but with the new moves he has, he's no more a clone than Luigi is to Mario. His style is represented in Smash as a slower, but powerful punish oriented character. (Though we could use the sword or volley for an anti projectile move). Besides, I don't think Sakurai's going to change Ganon anytime soon (especially with the rumor that Ganondorf resembles Sakurai's late father).

Tough luck. You're stuck with Falcondorf, whether you want to or not.

 

[Game And Guy]

why not just give him an entirely new moveset more representative how he actually is
and just relegate his old stuff to customs
his normals shouldn't even be too different from falcondork in any case

 

[Watulio]

As long as I have a powerful ************ that punches and kicks fiercely then I don't care if he gets decloned.

If they just took his moveset out then I'd be mad

 

[Random4811]

That may baffle you, but what baffles me is why you think Captain Falcon's not a clone of Ganon.

That is, I'm mad they didn't declone Falcon.

But Ganon is Falcons father, clearly, and thus he learned all the moves he has to show from dear old Daddydorf. How can they just "declone" Falcon?

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I don't really think you guys understand why Ganondorf should be changed, I'm a huge Zelda fan so why when I play smash 4 Ganondorf doesn't have a single move that represents his skill set in the series. I've never seen a warlock punch, a wizard kick or that weird up tilt thing in any of the main Zelda titles, you see what they did to bowser in smash 4 right? so that whole alienating the players thing is a lie it's just them being too lazy to actually animate a new move set.I love what they did with Ganondorf in the new pm 3.5 he still has the basic move set of falcondorf but they actually made subtle tweaks to make him feel more like the king of evil I know and love

 

[Random4811]

I don't really think you guys understand why Ganondorf should be changed, I'm a huge Zelda fan so why when I play smash 4 Ganondorf doesn't have a single move that represents his skill set in the series. I've never seen a warlock punch, a wizard kick or that weird up tilt thing in any of the main Zelda titles, you see what they did to bowser in smash 4 right? so that whole alienating the players thing is a lie it's just them being too lazy to actually animate a new move set.I love what they did with Ganondorf in the new pm 3.5 he still has the basic move set of falcondorf but they actually made subtle tweaks to make him feel more like the king of evil I know and love

But Gannon has that one custom where he has a sword. Totally fairly represented.
In all seriousness, What would you give him instead of his moveset now? Its not like he does a whole lot outside of a small set pattern of attacks in most of his games anyway.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

But Gannon has that one custom where he has a sword. Totally fairly represented.
In all seriousness, What would you give him instead of his moveset now? Its not like he does a whole lot outside of a small set pattern of attacks in most of his games anyway.

I really don't want to say a sword wielder just because we have so many but his dual swords from wind waker and HW would be a very interesting style for him, but if you wouldn't want that Project m Ganondorf would be the best fit honestly,

 

[Random4811]

I really don't want to say a sword wielder just because we have so many but his dual swords from wind waker and HW would be a very interesting style for him, but if you wouldn't want that Project m Ganondorf would be the best fit honestly,

Honestly, you're never going to see hover ganon in the main game. I dont know what else PM 3.5 did to him, as I dont have an SD card on me so I cant DL it at the mo, but dont expect PM changes to ever make it to the main game. Honestly, I think he's fine how he is. He's got his dark powers representative of his dark powers in his games. He just uses them to punch and kick really, really hard.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Honestly, you're never going to see hover ganon in the main game. I dont know what else PM 3.5 did to him, as I dont have an SD card on me so I cant DL it at the mo, but dont expect PM changes to ever make it to the main game. Honestly, I think he's fine how he is. He's got his dark powers representative of his dark powers in his games. He just uses them to punch and kick really, really hard.

It's just hard to believe they can make a move set for duck hunt and wii fit trainer with little to no reference material but Ganondorf who has multiple games to choose from has a move set of a character who you never saw outside of his vehicle

 

[Opana]

As long as I have a powerful mother****er that punches and kicks fiercely then I don't care if he gets decloned.

If they just took his moveset out then I'd be mad

It was funny reading this next to Shrek's picture.

 

[-Whiplash-]

I'm sorry, as a Ganondorf fan and main I feel you are whining.

Should he have a more "Ganondorf-esque" moveset? Totally. will that alienate more people then it pleases? Maybe, actually.

I used to hate the fact that Ganondorf is a clone of Falcon in melee, then I decided, since I love the character (Ganondorf) so much, I would actually PLAY as my favorite character instead of whine. I'm the kind of person that picks a character because they like them, not based on what they do, I'm sure how you feel about it but I'm guessing you aren't.

Also, Oddly enough, the changes they made to his moveset and aesthetically. (Specifically his new Up-Smash, and the change of his neutral B and Dash) to be less like Falcon actually disappointed me in brawl since they look less like falcon, now he has an old man jog instead of the powerful run he had in Melee and his Warlock punch seems less powerful because it looks like a backhand instead of a huge punch. Him losing the Double Flip kick falcon had makes the move look less epic IMO, as well, since the idea that Ganondorf can do such a thing is so badass.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Personally, Ganondorf works well as a Falcon semi-clone (and he plays really different from Falcon anyway). A heavy punching mage is awesome, and is kinda a throwback to OoT. He just need a new special move: the obvious Deadman's volley.

I love Ganondorf, but a sword wouldn't do any good for him. I'd prefer having a new character with Toon Ganondorf and his two swords and keeping Ganondorf as he is. Sure, he does fight with a sword in Twilight Princess, but he will always be a dark mage before being a swordman.

 

[Lufos]

That may baffle you, but what baffles me is why you think Captain Falcon's not a clone of Ganon.

That is, I'm mad they didn't declone Falcon.

This is 100% the truth. I'm also terrible mad.

I don't really think you guys understand why Ganondorf should be changed, I'm a huge Zelda fan so why when I play smash 4 Ganondorf doesn't have a single move that represents his skill set in the series. I've never seen a warlock punch, a wizard kick or that weird up tilt thing in any of the main Zelda titles, you see what they did to bowser in smash 4 right? so that whole alienating the players thing is a lie it's just them being too lazy to actually animate a new move set.I love what they did with Ganondorf in the new pm 3.5 he still has the basic move set of falcondorf but they actually made subtle tweaks to make him feel more like the king of evil I know and love

Regarding this I just wanna say that I think his current moveset makes me feel like an extremely powerful wizard. Isn't that what Cannondwarf is? I mean, he focuses his dark powers in all of his moves and is just insanely strong, I find him incredibly cool!

It's just hard to believe they can make a move set for duck hunt and wii fit trainer with little to no reference material but Ganondorf who has multiple games to choose from has a move set of a character who you never saw outside of his vehicle

As someone else said before, what would you give him? Giving him swords would feel terribly wrong to me. He has his dark magic, he is very powerful, what more can you ask? It's not like those moves are somehow connected to Falcon in his other games either...


I would say his moveset is PERFECT the way it is!
All his kicks are so satisfying, and the looks and feeling of him is so evil and dark and powerful.

I kinda wish he had Captain Falcons knee though, that is the second most satisfying move (Cannondwarfs dair being the most satisfying) in the game in my opinion!

 

[XxBHunterxX]

This is 100% the truth. I'm also terrible mad.



Regarding this I just wanna say that I think his current moveset makes me feel like an extremely powerful wizard. Isn't that what Cannondwarf is? I mean, he focuses his dark powers in all of his moves and is just insanely strong, I find him incredibly cool!



As someone else said before, what would you give him? Giving him swords would feel terribly wrong to me. He has his dark magic, he is very powerful, what more can you ask? It's not like those moves are somehow connected to Falcon in his other games either...


I would say his moveset is PERFECT the way it is!
All his kicks are so satisfying, and the looks and feeling of him is so evil and dark and powerful.

I kinda wish he had Captain Falcons knee though, that is the second most satisfying move (Cannondwarfs dair being the most satisfying) in the game in my opinion!

I don't really understand why you'd think it would feel wrong, using swords is what he does in the Zelda games with exception being OoT, how do you think bowsers mains felt from melee and brawl to smash 4? He got a complete makeover to make him play like he does in mario games. Ganondorf's move set is far from too sacred to change, Zelda herself has a move set that's based on things from the actual games she's not a semi clone of peach and she does less than Ganondorf action wise in the series. The thing that truly angers me is that Ganondorf was a last minute edition to melee meaning that the only reason he was a clone was because they didn't have time to make an original one so it doesn't make sense that bowser got an upgrade and Ganondorf didn't

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

The dude has the triforce of power, he has no need for graceful moves or a sword when his own limbs can knock enemies to the side.

His moveset is as far as tilts and smashes go are in the same mold as most humanoid characters that don't use weapons. Probably most people aren't fond of the Twilight Princess version of him that looks rather chunky with the armor, but there hasn't really been a more recent version of him since Skyward Sword didn't have him in it I think and Hyrule Warriors is too recent and isn't owned just by Nintendo so that likeness probably couldn't be used.

Every hit should be powerful and with Ike in the game having another heavy sword user would be redundant to be honest.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Old Manondorf is fine the way he is.

Think about what moves he actually had in the series before mêlée came out. Not too much to work with, without making a teleporting, flying char who only really used a slow projectile.

Hopefully a Warriordorf would be a character to your liking, but until that happens you should just learn to love our punching wizard.

 

[Oort]

Why would we play such a low tier character if all we cared about was winning? Seems like you should be taking this to the Diddy Kong forum if you ask me.

Ganondorf's playstyle is unique, even if you don't like it and even if it doesn't fit in with his role in other games. I think the emphasis on punishment and brutality fits the character even if he didn't punch people in the Zelda games, because his moveset is just fundamentally evil. It's kind of awesome that the way his hits connect alone could tell you that he's a villain.

When it comes down to it, Ganon as he is adds more to the game than a fat Robin would, and that's what matters to the developers.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Keep Ganondorf as he is. They won't change him. They've had Brawl and now Smash 4. It ain't happening. Now adding in Ganon is something we can hope for. Pig Ganon wielding the Trident of Power is something I've wanted for a long time. We have 2 Zelda's and 2 Link's. Why not 2 Ganon's? Besides Palutena's Guidance mentioned multiple Ganon's.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Why would we play such a low tier character if all we cared about was winning? Seems like you should be taking this to the Diddy Kong forum if you ask me.

Ganondorf's playstyle is unique, even if you don't like it and even if it doesn't fit in with his role in other games. I think the emphasis on punishment and brutality fits the character even if he didn't punch people in the Zelda games, because his moveset is just fundamentally evil. It's kind of awesome that the way his hits connect alone could tell you that he's a villain.

When it comes down to it, Ganon as he is adds more to the game than a fat Robin would, and that's what matters to the developers.

If that was the case we wouldn't have 3 full on clone characters in smash 4, the best and worst thing about Ganondorf in smash 4 is that he's completely dependent on your skill as a player, I love that play style I just don't think it fits him and it makes me feel like I'm just playing as an old man

 

[MrGame&Rock]

**** that, Falcondorf is awesome. Actually Ganon in his current form is the reason why I love clones. You take basically the same moveset and give it a complete reimagining. You can experiment and see how this character would function differently with these different properties. Ganon may have CF's moves, but they play very, very differently, especially when you consider custom moves

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

If that was the case we wouldn't have 3 full on clone characters in smash 4, the best and worst thing about Ganondorf in smash 4 is that he's completely dependent on your skill as a player, I love that play style I just don't think it fits him and it makes me feel like I'm just playing as an old man

It's time to realize that the 3 clones are pure bonus characters.

And playing an old man IS the reason to play Falcondorf

 

[MagiusNecros]

I can see where people are coming from with a new moveset, whether you like the current one or not there is no denying that all of Ganondorf's attacks have very little to do with the source material. But unfortunately the first playable Ganondorf is in Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Folt]

Warlock Punch is the greatest thing ever!

As is Flame Choke!

And the dair stomp!

And the u-tilt!

And Dark Dive from Brawl onwards!

And his customs!

And having darkness effects on his attacks!

I love Smash Ganondorf!

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Telling the people who are happy with how it turned out to get over it?

lolkay

dont expect PM changes to ever make it to the main game

DK's dash attack says hi

 

[HeavyLobster]

I don't know. I'd say Smash Ganon is pretty faithful to the source material. (Go to 6:30)

 

[XxBHunterxX]

It's time to realize that the 3 clones are pure bonus characters.

And playing an old man IS the reason to play Falcondorf

Never said they weren't bonuses just pointing out the devs don't only care about making characters unique.

Yeah you're right but HW and wind waker Ganonforf mop the floor with smash bros Ganonforf

 

[Folt]

Smash Bros. Ganondorf swags all over HW and Wind Waker Ganondorf.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Never said they weren't bonuses just pointing out the devs don't only care about making characters unique.

Yeah you're right but HW and wind waker Ganonforf mop the floor with smash bros Ganonforf

But they were meant to be costumes. I'm sure they weren't planned as whole characters before E3 2014, considering how Dark Pit was presented, while Lucina have her name in her trailer.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

But they were meant to be costumes. I'm sure they weren't planned as whole characters before E3 2014, considering how Dark Pit was presented, while Lucina have her name in her trailer.

I'm 99% certain that was the case,I'm just saying that the devs aren't above putting characters in just to pad out the roster