Good/Bad Matchups for ZSS

[MT Zehvor]

What, in your opinion, are the best(and worst) matchups for Zero Suit Samus in a brawl?

Best for me would be someone along the lines of ROB or Ike. Slow-ish characters without much long distance game are fairly easy to deal with for me, as ZSS can easily stop any sort of advance by them with her superior range, and that down aerial stops any sort of reckless charging, such as that from Ike's side special.

Bad matchup would be Toon Link. I've got no problem trashing any level 9 character, typically with either losing zero to one lives depending on who I'm facing. But Toon Link is a never ceasing pain in my side. All of his moves seem to have priority over mine(though it might just be me being paranoid), his sword range is devastating, he's far too fast to use a down smash, and that up sword stops any sort of down aerial cold.

What would your's be?

-MT

 

[Deathfox30]

Worst MUs are Falco and Snake

Other than the obvious easy MUs (Bowser, Zelda, Ganon, etc) our best MUs would have to be IC's, ROB, and D3.

The Toon Link match up is definitely in ZSS' favor and level 9 CPUs are terrible practice! Try playing lower level CPUs or real players. Level 9's have unrealistic reaction time.

This could've been posted in Q&A or the MU thread. :/

 

[Linkvader]

I hate Snake because he lives to twice our % when we die. Falco reflects the items and our gun shot, and he's just so plain annoying. I don't think that computers get the best out of each character... Like Diddy computers almost never use their bannanas, and no almost no nades and lasers for Falco, Snake, and other characters.

 

[MT Zehvor]

I've found Snake relatively easy to deal with, actually, because his RPGs are easy to dodge/shield, and ZSS can fight him at a longer range than Snake can. Plus all of Snake's attacks are virtually telegraphed, so having the time to avoid them isn't an issue. Really it all comes down to dodging, although I probably haven't played any masters with Snake yet.

I agree with Falco though. He annoys me to no end.

-MT

 

[NickRiddle]

MT, computers don't mean anything, so basing MUs around an opponent who doesn't know how to C4 recover as Snake would make him seem easier.

Toon Link is easy.

Falco/Snake/Pikachu/MetaKnight are our 4 hardest MUs.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

^ What he said.

We basically outrange TL without his projectiles, and those can be avoided more easily than Falco's lasers imo. He's not that bad at all.
Snake is a tank and can kill us rather early if we don't watch ourselves. Makes me want to kick puppies.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Tbh I think our hard matchups are (in order)
Diddy, Pika, Falco
The rest can be considered reasonably even, the least favorable, imo, are (in order)
Sheik, Pit, TL,

But thats just my view on it. *shrug* we just lose to them projectiley charactars

 

[Deathfox30]

Tbh I think our hard matchups are (in order)
Diddy, Pika, Falco
The rest can be considered reasonably even, the least favorable, imo, are (in order)
Sheik, Pit, TL,

But thats just my view on it. *shrug* we just lose to them projectiley charactars

Diddy? I feel like Diddy is pretty even. Our infinite on him is extremely easy to learn and do consistently (just mess with the timing of the down throw after the footstool and you'll get it) and it isn't hard to set up. Some Diddys don't even use bananas because of it. Yeah, he has an infinite on us too but it's a lot harder and very hard to set up.

I agree with the rest. Pit is very annoying for me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Diddy just destroys me. As soon as I press any of the shoulder buttons Im basicly dead. If I dont shield, I cant really stay on the ground because diddys ground control > ours. And well, jumping against diddy isnt that smart because youre not really safe with all the nanas laying around and getting thrown. Sure, you can do the infinite, but I dont have a wii so I cant practice it =(

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Another easy match-up is Yoshi, just ask Smoky.

BJ

 

[MT Zehvor]

MT, computers don't mean anything, so basing MUs around an opponent who doesn't know how to C4 recover as Snake would make him seem easier.

I was actually basing that on my previous experiences with Snake players over the internet.

Also yes Yoshi is no problem. I've found Pikachu rather easy as well. Outside of that annoying down lightning bolt, he doesn't seem to have much to throw in our way.

But again, this is just based on my internet experiences.

-MT

 

[NickRiddle]

lolwifi
Pikachu can CG us, and gimp us. Harder to do online.
Yoshi's not easy... but not hard...
Dat offline exp.

 

[MT Zehvor]

Hey, you make do when you live in the middle of nowhere.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on Fox. Similar to Falco, but I haven't found him anywhere near as difficult in my experiences.

-MT

 

[Deathfox30]

Hey, you make do when you live in the middle of nowhere.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on Fox. Similar to Falco, but I haven't found him anywhere near as difficult in my experiences.

-MT

Fox is annoying. He's fast on the ground, he can camp us, and he kills us early. We have a useless D smash chain (seriously, good fox players almost never get hit by a D smash at early percents) and we can edge guard him pretty well. I think the MU is in his favor for sure. 45-55 maybe even 40-60. But that's just my opinion and it's one of my worst MUs.

 

[MT Zehvor]

I'd agree with 45-55. 40-60 seems a bit out of reach.

I dunno about anyone else, but I love using down aerial to keep Fox/Falco/other fast characters from using their speed too much to their advantage. Spamming it ends up going horribly wrong, but here and there and it's not too bad.

-MT

 

[Zero]

Get better at landing dsmash.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

^ What Zero said :'D

Can't be worse than 50-50 for us, imo

 

[MT Zehvor]

Well fine then.

What about Sheik? Everyone says it's about an even matchup...but I've never had any trouble with her.

-MT

 

[Dakpo]

A good sheik playing the match up right would probably be in their favor I honestly feel the match up is like fox's. I feel the hardest match-ups are
Falco/Metaknight , Snake, Diddy (even with the infinite, this match up is incredibly engaging) In that order
As for best..
Ganon :mistyface: lowtierlowtierlowtierlowtierlowtierlowtierlowtierlowtierlowtier ect

Edit: Good mario and Yoshi players can be tough thouh

 

[MT Zehvor]

Unless the players have incredibly good timing, Mario's a pretty favorable matchup. Yoshi I can't say a ton about, I haven't played him enough to know.

-MT

 

[Zero]

Ganon is ****ing free lol, it's pretty depressing how little he can do at any position. +3 if Ganon's lucky.

In the early days Sheik was claimed to be one of ZSS' worst MUs, much for the same reason as Falco, minus the bull**** chaingrab. She just has the tools to force ZSS to approach, as well as the tools to challenge her in the air. Sheik clean beats ZSS on the ground. She got a trash recovery though.

 

[MT Zehvor]

Agree, but she's got so little KO'ing power the Sheik player's got to play pretty carefully to win.

-MT

 

[NickRiddle]

Sheik doesn't beat ZSS clean on the ground.

 

[MT Zehvor]

Yeah I think ZSS has an advantage on the ground. Sheik's quick, but ZSS is far more powerful, especially the down smash and the up special.

-MT

 

[Zero]

How does she not? A proper grab, a very good dash and amazing dash attack, a decent jab and ftilt to infinity to punish any stupid mistake you make. Not to mention her running hurtbox is tiny and she's incredibly fast.

Compared to ZSS, who has no grab, mediocre dash (with an excellent dash attack though), and average standalone ground offence. Sure, the reward ZSS gets off a dtilt and dsmash are leagues beyond what Sheik gets off any of her moves, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

 

[NickRiddle]

I'm used to using ZSS on the ground against... most of the cast.
So I guess I think it's underrated.
Having a non-viable short-hop doesn't help either.

 

[MT Zehvor]

I think the main difference maker is those suit pieces. Using them properly, you can pretty much negate any sort of long range advantage Sheik has, and they keep her from using dash attacks since any dash attack = suit piece ownage.

I personally prefer to use either B + Suit Piece or Suit Piece Up followed by B and then B sideways since any attempt to charge is hit by the suit piece from above. The up smash is especially useful on stages with multiple platforms where you can knock Sheik onto another platform and then hit her that way.

Plus Sheik's rather easy to KO in terms of weight. If you make a mistake, it's bad, but on the flip side, if Sheik makes a mistake, she's probably KO'd unless her damage percent is low.

-MT

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

My friend wants to know about the Ness/ZSS matchup if anyone has played it at all/knows about it.

 

[MT Zehvor]

Slightly in ZSS's favor. Ness has some nasty ground attacks, but he's kinda screwed once he gets knocked into the air.

-MT

 

[NickRiddle]

I love when MT posts.
Because then I have to clarify.

It's +1 in ZSS's favor.
Ness can combo ZSS in the air, and fair is a really good move.
PK fire is lame.
Ness's damage output as a whole is lame.

He's easy to gimp.
He's light.
GR > Uair is nice.
Bair beats like all of his moves.

Search for me vs. Shaky online?
Not sure if there's anything recent... but it's probably your best bet.

 

[fkacyan]

ZSS doesn't really have an easy time straight killing anybody, she typically has to get them higher than other characters because her good kill moves are aerials and, seeing as her shorthop is terrible, it's generally hard to land them against competent players.

This means characters with good OOS options or characters that are quite heavy can be challenging matchups. On the flip side, it's easier to land dsmash to chain to aerials on characters that have significantly larger hitboxes than their shields can adequately cover.

Characters who outrange / outspeed ZSS can also give her a lot of trouble.

Spoiler

D3 still wins the MU if he stays grounded though. dat ridiculous ftilt / grab range son

 

[MT Zehvor]

I exist so you have a job, Nick.

In all honesty, though, you kinda left out all of his attacks except for PK fire, which is his least powerful. I was more thinking along the lines of his yo-yo and baseball bat, both of which are more than a little dangerous.

-MT

 

[Zero]

yoyo is mostly worthless except for being something in the bag o'tricks to watch out for. PK Fire > Stutter Step bat HURTS when the Ness is good though.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I love when MT posts.
Because then I have to clarify.

It's +1 in ZSS's favor.
Ness can combo ZSS in the air, and fair is a really good move.
PK fire is lame.
Ness's damage output as a whole is lame.

He's easy to gimp.
He's light.
GR > Uair is nice.
Bair beats like all of his moves.

Search for me vs. Shaky online?
Not sure if there's anything recent... but it's probably your best bet.

I forgot you teamed with Shaky all the time, so you should know this pretty well. :v

 

[MT Zehvor]

One matchup I'd kinda like to hear your guy's opinions on is Lucario. Even matchup according to the chart, but it seems like ZSS has no way to approach Lucario safely due to the fact that Lucario can charge up his aura and simply just camp whenever ZSS comes close.

Course it's only an issue on Final Destination, but still...

And also, note how I say: "I'd like to hear OPINIONS." I wouldn't, Nick, like to hear a readout of the matchup chart.

-MT

 

[NickRiddle]

One matchup I'd kinda like to hear your guy's opinions on is Lucario. Even matchup according to the chart, but it seems like ZSS has no way to approach Lucario safely due to the fact that Lucario can charge up his aura and simply just camp whenever ZSS comes close.

Course it's only an issue on Final Destination, but still...

And also, note how I say: "I'd like to hear OPINIONS." I wouldn't, Nick, like to hear a readout of the matchup chart.

-MT

I made the ZSS MU chart.
My opinion, unless other people were arguing so loudly that I gave up my arguments, are exactly what is on the chart...
As such, the read-out is EXACTLY what you want to hear.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Which is everything except Marth/Wario I assume? I dont think anyone here thinks its in their favor...
Diddy maybe too? Even though I personally disagree with it being anything less than -1.

 

[MT Zehvor]

Ah. My fault then @Nick.

MK and Falco are disadvantages as well.

And Snake.

-MT