For some reason, I feel like Robin's Missing Something...

[Ultimastrike]

I don't know if it's my gameplay or what, but I can't really help get a feeling that he/she's missing something that could help him against projectile spammers and balanced attackers like Mario. Thoron was my thought before, but that just winds up getting shielded or reflected in some cases...I'm not sure if there's a tech missing or if there's something Robin can capitalize on other than being the defensive character he is with his low KB tilts with the Bronze Sword.

 

[Moydow]

I kinda feel the same, honestly. I've yet to find any characters who I can beat with Robin, that I can't beat more easily with Marth/Lucina. I mean, that could just boil down to me being more experienced with Marth, and the more I play Robin, the more likely it is that I might find some advantage he does have over Marth, but right now I don't see it.

 

[False Sense]

I think it may be too early to say if Robin is really "missing something." Robin is a brand new character only recently introduced to us, and a rather complex one at that. At this point, it's difficult to say whether or not there's something inherently wrong with Robin, or if we simply aren't used to playing as him/her and have yet to tap into his/her true potential.

I'd say keep practicing and and give it time; we still have a lot to learn about Robin.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Well, it's not easy to figure out how to make him get better. I mean, outside of Roll Cancel Grabs you kinda do peak early when it comes to Arcfire/Arcthunder Combos and also just using him in general. I'm just unsure where else there is to improve outside the normal Fire/Wind Jab, tilts, Elwind Spike, and his smash inputs for Levin alongside insta-foxtrotting(which kinda is useful).

 

[Skye Kitsune]

honestly, with a lack of any approach approach to all it makes her suffer badly to certain matchups. All it takes is a link that spams arrows when you're far away and whacks you with his sword when you're nearby to get you thrown all over the place. This happens alot to me with Falco with his shines and other characters like that, that force me to move to them.

But I'm not a particularly good player, I feel like I'm missing something as much as Robin is.

 

[Tuvillo]

I get the feeling Robin scales less on player skill than some other characters. No matter how good you are, there are strategies that will defeat a Robin even if the Robin is much more skilled.

Compare to something like Little Mac who has an insane scaling to skill, and being the superior player will almost always net you the win.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

Thoron was my thought before, but that just winds up getting shielded or reflected in some cases...

Just my tidbit on thoron/arcthunder, but like tager's spark bolt in BB, the threat of a thoron/arc thunder is more useful than the projectile in certain matchups (Nu vs Tager anyone?). Having it charged will make your foe try to call it out which simply means you can control neutral simply by staring at them.

Well thats how I mix up my approach options anywho.

 

[IzzyWright]

Your jabs beat most projectiles
Abuse levin sword
jabs are good
uh i guess you could start catching your items as you discard them and using them?
Haven't ****ed around with Robin's item stuff too much, but zdropping is really silly for MM/Pac-Man.
Maybe do like sh airdodge+z drop with discarded items
again, levin sword is great

That said, there doesn't seem to be a terrible amount of flash with her. I think Robin is b to c tier for zoning (don't read this as actual placement on a tier list,) so a lot of her stuff is going to be just forcing the opponent into bad situations and capitalizing on it.

Sorta like a tactician would be expected to play.

I think figuring out her optimal range is pretty important. Haven't ****ed with it much, but I'd guess RC grab range is pretty good for all things but charging tomes.

Bthrow is fantastic for that.

Oh, and you can go pretty far off the stage, just don't mess up. levin dair spikes, first hit of elwind spikes, and elwind in general is good for tacking damage on to low-recovering opponents.

 

[Hong]

Only thing I would ask for (aside from more palettes!) is if Arcfire travelled a bit further. Could offer more aggressive play if the timing window to use it before landing was wider. Would also make it better off-stage, which could be fun.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

As far as for glory is concerned Robin is missing a stage with platforms.

Robin has a tough time dealing with projectile spam, and hitting short characters with aerials. Stages with elevation differences change that.

 

[Unkown Hero]

Only thing I would ask for (aside from more palettes!) is if Arcfire travelled a bit further. Could offer more aggressive play if the timing window to use it before landing was wider. Would also make it better off-stage, which could be fun.

Same, I wish Arcfire was a bit faster, could be angled and would either travel further or continue to travel until it either goes of stage or hits something, be it a character or floor.

 

[Ticker]

I honestly feel that Robin is just lacking in speed to follow up on anything.

 

[Mac2492]

Robin isn't a perfect character but I'll try to address a few of these concerns. Her main counters are projectile spam and fast rushdown characters.
The website just derped and deleted a few paragraphs of my responses so apologizes if I seem to be in a hurry.

I don't know if it's my gameplay or what, but I can't really help get a feeling that he/she's missing something that could help him against projectile spammers and balanced attackers like Mario. Thoron was my thought before, but that just winds up getting shielded or reflected in some cases...I'm not sure if there's a tech missing or if there's something Robin can capitalize on other than being the defensive character he is with his low KB tilts with the Bronze Sword.

This is actually two separate issues. Projectile-spammers and anti-projectile skills are both problematic for Robin

Against projectile spammers your strongest options are Arcfire and Elthunder (or Thunder) to soak up some of those projectiles. Against every projectile spammer aside from Greninja you can often out-trade them at close-range so use Arcfire and Arcthunder as you approach. You can't out-spam a good Link spammer so don't. If you have access to customs then I'd strongly recommend Speed Thunder because it's closes the gap significantly.

For anti-projectile users you need to adjust your strategy. Don't mindlessly spam projectiles because they will read you and reflect/absorb whatever you shoot at them. Instead, use projectiles as a punishing tool. If you can fool them into thinking a projectile is coming you can also punish their missed reflector/absorb.

I kinda feel the same, honestly. I've yet to find any characters who I can beat with Robin, that I can't beat more easily with Marth/Lucina. I mean, that could just boil down to me being more experienced with Marth, and the more I play Robin, the more likely it is that I might find some advantage he does have over Marth, but right now I don't see it.

Don't try to play Robin like Marth/Lucina. A significant portion of Robin's strength is her versatile and powerful projectile gameplay. Marth does not generally want to be farther away from his opponent than the tip of his sword. On the contrary, Robin performs very well even from across the stage.

You should always be charging Thunder up to Arcthunder/Thoron during downtimes (especially in midair). Use chunky projectiles like Arcthunder and Arcfire to zone and chain into them with aerials/smashes. Robin is most powerful when weaving between close-range and long-range. If you stick exclusively to one or the other then she's being underutilized. Instead, mix up close-range and long-range play to keep opponents on their toes. Are you going to jump off stage and spike with Dair/Up B or will you stay on the stage and aim for an Arcfire/Thunder?

Robin has a pretty good matchup advantage against Marth thanks to her range and powerful aerials.

Well, it's not easy to figure out how to make him get better. I mean, outside of Roll Cancel Grabs you kinda do peak early when it comes to Arcfire/Arcthunder Combos and also just using him in general. I'm just unsure where else there is to improve outside the normal Fire/Wind Jab, tilts, Elwind Spike, and his smash inputs for Levin alongside insta-foxtrotting(which kinda is useful).

Robin has some of the most versatile specials in the game. Thunder speaks for itself with four charge levels that are all useful. Arcfire chains into many moves and is a powerful zoning tool even if it hits the ground. Elwind can be used as a recovery, a spike, and a mixup when recovering from high. Nosferatu is a command grab with a scaling heal. Then you have tomes/Levin Sword being powerful thrown items. If anything Robin has the highest potential for unique strategies along with Megaman.

honestly, with a lack of any approach approach to all it makes her suffer badly to certain matchups. All it takes is a link that spams arrows when you're far away and whacks you with his sword when you're nearby to get you thrown all over the place. This happens alot to me with Falco with his shines and other characters like that, that force me to move to them.

But I'm not a particularly good player, I feel like I'm missing something as much as Robin is.

Arcfire and Elthunder/Arcthunder are great for approaching. Even holding a charged Arcthunder/Thoron is enough to pressure opponents.

She suffers against superior projectile spammers but they are the exception rather than the norm. In most cases you shouldn't be forced to approach because Robin is powerful at a distance. Why run into a Marth/DK's range when you can shoot them? Force them to approach you.

Falco's blaster is easy to shield even while charging Thunder. You can easily beat his Side B by throwing Thunder or Arcfire. If you gauge the distance properly you can even counter with an easy smash.

I get the feeling Robin scales less on player skill than some other characters. No matter how good you are, there are strategies that will defeat a Robin even if the Robin is much more skilled.

Compare to something like Little Mac who has an insane scaling to skill, and being the superior player will almost always net you the win.

Big Mac > Red Robin confirmed

As far as for glory is concerned Robin is missing a stage with platforms.

Robin has a tough time dealing with projectile spam, and hitting short characters with aerials. Stages with elevation differences change that.

Final Destination is a great stage for Robin against non-projectile spammers though. And don't try to aerial short characters on the ground. She does have tools to respond to short characters on the ground (notably Arcfire).

I honestly feel that Robin is just lacking in speed to follow up on anything.

Robin's fast moves are Uair, Thunder/Elthunder, Dtilt, Nair. She's perfectly fine at following up, especially out of Arcthunder and Arcfire. She doesn't combo out of grabs or tilts as well as other characters but that doesn't mean she has no followups. Do you have a specific example of a move you have trouble following up on?

 

[Moydow]

I don't believe I said anywhere that I was trying to play Robin the same way I play Marth. I just commented that I personally feel that I can defeat any opponent more easily with Marth than with Robin. In fact I've been doing exactly what you say with him (charge Thunders at every opportunity, switch between close and long range play as needed), and have had some success with him, it just feels for me like Marth is always able to get me the kill more easily. But like I said, that probably boils down to me having more experience with Marth and being more comfortable with his play style, and it should hopefully change as I get more used to Robin. I guess I just need to keep practising with him.

 

[Mac2492]

I don't believe I said anywhere that I was trying to play Robin the same way I play Marth. I just commented that I personally feel that I can defeat any opponent more easily with Marth than with Robin. In fact I've been doing exactly what you say with him (charge Thunders at every opportunity, switch between close and long range play as needed), and have had some success with him, it just feels for me like Marth is always able to get me the kill more easily. But like I said, that probably boils down to me having more experience with Marth and being more comfortable with his play style, and it should hopefully change as I get more used to Robin. I guess I just need to keep practising with him.

I apologize if it seemed like I accused you of playing a certain way. Your original post simply stated "I am better with Marth than I am with Robin". The most reasonable response was to explain how to adapt from a typical Marth playstyle into something that works better with Robin.

I have a friend who mains Marth/Shiek and cannot enjoy Robin due to her different playstyle. Generic advice to anyone looking to main Robin is to stop thinking about how X character is better in a given situation and instead think about how Robin can be better in that situation. Don't just fallback on "well this other character can do this". Figure out how to handle a situation given the tools you do have. If you ever hit an impasse we're here to help.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I actually feel kind of the same way here. I really, really want to play Robin, and have devoted the 2nd most time to him/her (behind Megaman), but he/she's currently around my 4th best character. I say this fully acknowledging that it might be a personal struggle (which is why I came to this board.... only to see this thread).

So a few of the struggles:
-Mobility issues that everybody knows. I actually don't think this is a huge deal overall, but it adds to the struggle.
-Blind Spots in attacks. This is actually my #1 issue currently. Most of Robin's attacks have a pretty substantial blind spot where they just don't hit the opponent. Fair has a great hitbox, but not great enough to SH fair and hit short characters (without a laggy landing). Dsmash has a slow backward hitting hitbox (but it's not very useful/powerful and only occurs with the Levin sword), but we really don't have an attack that hits forward and back (which is invaluable in punishing rolls). I suppose you could count SH Nair here, but again, it has its limits. Elfire has a huge blindspot in front of you... and considering how slow it is... it's really not safe to cast it at the distance that it will actually hit somebody against most faster chars... so you essentially have to use it as a wall, run up and do it again (again not a huge issue, but it's a limitation when you only have like 6 uses of it).
-Issues against short characters. This is kind of relating to the point above but dang, we have a hard time just hitting the shorties in this game. All of our aerials lag like crazy when you start them low enough to actually hit people like Ness, Mac, Kirby, etc. This extends even to Thoron, which flat out misses (or can be ducked) against way too many chars. So combining those points, the short + fast characters (Mac, Greninja, Sheik all fall into this) just give us nightmares. We have nearly nothing confirmable in the neutral, so we just have to throw out hitboxes and hope the opponents get hit. I don't like that kind of passive gameplay, personally.
-I actually really like our jabs, but the strong third hits just aren't confirmed ever.

I do agree that platforms help us in general, so For Glory is not a great representative.
I do think Robin has more issues punishing rolls than most of the cast... Again, you can either commit to punishing the spot dodge OR the roll... nearly nothing can punish both of them with any power behind it (might be able to get a tilt or jab). This feels really limiting in a game where nearly every character has SOMETHING that hits forward and back (see Lucario dsmash for probably the best example)

I think if anything is going to turn this around, it's going to be using the books/levin sword as items. I do see some potential there, esp considering their power. I've gotten to the point where I'm not afraid to spam the sword a bit just to get the item. I also really like Nosferatu as a very good shield punisher + equalizer at high %s (although if you miss, you're toast)


I also want to point out the custom moves, in case they are legal. Robin is one of the only characters that I feel becomes quite a bit better once customs are active. In particular, I think his Fast Thunder and short-range Elfire (I forget the actual names and numbers but you'll find them) are VERY GOOD.

-Fast thunder allows us to essentially use Elthunder as our quick spam option (very brief charging). Given the size and usefulness, I think that makes it vastly superior to normal thunder. I also don't really think Thoron is a great killmove as is (and again it whiffs a lot), so the lesser power really doesn't bother me here, in exchange for a much faster spammable move.
-The Elfire special puts the bonfire RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU and hits once powerfully instead of the multihit. Now I like the setups that normal Elfire gives us, but those aren't guaranteed anyway. This move also eliminates the blindspot that I mentioned before, and seems a bit faster. It helps us get down from the air because of it's very steep angle (which doesn't seem to disappear from any height before hitting the ground). Its main use, imo, is in edgeguarding though... any chars that like to go low (which seems like 75% of the cast), you can just stand on stage and hit them with this out of their upB. it's really really good.

I think the upB specials are interchangeable, but I prefer the normal one.
Same with the DownB specials... I think they all have uses, but the normal is my favorite.

 

[Mechageo]

I honestly feel that Robin is just lacking in speed to follow up on anything.

This.
Going up against a good Greninja will put a lot of pressure on you due to the startup speed of his attacks. You really have to predict him to win.

 

[Mac2492]

-Blind Spots in attacks. This is actually my #1 issue currently. Most of Robin's attacks have a pretty substantial blind spot where they just don't hit the opponent.
-Issues against short characters. This is kind of relating to the point above but dang, we have a hard time just hitting the shorties in this game.
-I actually really like our jabs, but the strong third hits just aren't confirmed ever.

Robin's attacks are pretty laggy if your opponent is rolling near you. You can punish them with pivot grab/roll cancel grab or ftilt/dtilt. The hitbox on dsmash is also long enough to hit enemies out of roll if you time it correctly. Arcfire is great for punishing rolls at a distance so another option, and my preferred one, is to step back and shoot.

Don't short hop aerials against short characters. Tilt against Ness. Arcfire to stall/punish Mac. Kirby is not hard to hit. If the opponent can duck your Thoron then they can also shield/dodge it and you're shooting it at the wrong time to begin with. It's one of the fastest, chunkiest projectiles in the game.

Fire Jab is more reliable than Wind Jab except at 0% basically. I only start having issues past 100% or so. Switch to tilts once your jabs become in effective.

This.
Going up against a good Greninja will put a lot of pressure on you due to the startup speed of his attacks. You really have to predict him to win.

Greninja, Shiek, and Sonic, are the only characters that are "too fast" for Robin though. Greninja is the biggest offender due to also possessing a spammy, chunky projectile. Shiek and Sonic lack kill potential in comparison but they still bully Robin.

It's important to not confuse a poor matchup with your character being bad. Greninja, Shiek, and Sonic are already being considered for top tier. They're fast and they pack a punch. Every character slower character struggles against them.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Robin's attacks are pretty laggy if your opponent is rolling near you. You can punish them with pivot grab/roll cancel grab or ftilt/dtilt. The hitbox on dsmash is also long enough to hit enemies out of roll if you time it correctly. Arcfire is great for punishing rolls at a distance so another option, and my preferred one, is to step back and shoot.

Don't short hop aerials against short characters. Tilt against Ness. Arcfire to stall/punish Mac. Kirby is not hard to hit. If the opponent can duck your Thoron then they can also shield/dodge it and you're shooting it at the wrong time to begin with. It's one of the fastest, chunkiest projectiles in the game.

Fire Jab is more reliable than Wind Jab except at 0% basically. I only start having issues past 100% or so. Switch to tilts once your jabs become in effective.

RE: rolling - what I was saying is Robin really doesn't have anything that can cover a roll AND another option. In a real match, you don't know whether your opponent will roll or spot dodge/jump/attack, etc. So yes you can ready a dsmash (not saying to charge it.. just be ready to use one) and hold spacing for that, but in that scenario, you WILL NOT be able to punish other options on reaction. Also dsmash in particular has fairly limited horizontal range, so on a slightly different-than-expected spacing (which being honest, will happen fairly often in a match, somewhat regardless of matchup or player skill), you only get the electric effects, which don't kill nearly as early as the actual sword swing. Compared to the majority of characters, Robin doesn't have a very good both-side attack (could argue Nair but it's not terribly strong and requires a jump). Most chars in the game have a dsmash that will cover several options. Robin doesn't have an ATTACK that does, and that negatively impacts his ability to apply pressure and also cover rolls. That's what I'm saying.

RE: the short chars discussion - Without SH aerials, our spacing game takes a HUGE hit. you can say "just tilt", but our tilts are never going to be near the power, range, or utility that our aerials and smashes have (and smashes are too laggy to use in neutral most of the time). Tilts are an 'ok' keep-away tool and are reasonably safe in terms of cooldown, but the problem is... practically every other character can out-range them and hit you through them. Ness in particular can punish tilts in several different ways, namely with the range+priority of his fair (I personally think Ness is a nightmare matchup for us for several reasons, including these). So if you go into a match saying "yeah this super useful aerial game that you have? yeah you can't use it in neutral this matchup", things aren't going to look as positive. Arcfire is ridiculously unsafe against Mac... mostly because he doesn't mind waiting for the wall to go down if you're at range enough so he can't just rush you while you're casting (which is pretty huge, honestly). If you just try to set a wall, run up and set another one... and approach that way, there's literally nothing that keeps him from rolling through the fire and hitting you on the 2nd cast. If you're not trying to do that, all you've done is stall the match and use a fire cast.
I partially agree on the Thoron point that you made, disregarding that some chars (kirby really comes to mind) have a auto-squat after landing that also crouches under it at a time that they would normally be vulnerable. This isn't true for other charged projectiles.

The wind jab seems to never confirm the strong attack. It'll hit from time to time, but I believe it's one of the worst rapid jabs in the game, in terms of being able to be DI'ed out of. That said, I love that it can kill... just can't get it to hit against good opponents.
Fire jab is fine and all, but it essentially stops working when you could actually use it to set up a deep edgeguarding opportunity... so yeah that's annoying.

 

[Mac2492]

You're essentially right on every point but I think you're approaching this the wrong way. Pointing out Robin's flaws and using them to figure out how she can lose is the opponents' job. Our job is to recognize the flaws and figure out how to win despite them. Every situation that you're creating sucks for Robin, but instead of talking about how much it sucks for Robin we should be figuring out how to win or avoid them.

Robin does not have an end-all response to a roll at close range like Little Mac's Dsmash (which isn't really end-all but gets close). I have personally had a fair amount of success punishing with Dsmash. It doesn't have to kill to be a boon. Against most characters, even knocking them across the stage is useful because it gives you time to charge Thunder and zone with Arcfire. If they start to punish Dsmash then stop using Dsmash. An attack that hits both sides is not a necessity.

The lack of Short Hop aerials are problematic. I often use Thunder and Arcfire while approaching from the air as a result. If you're both in the air then you can completely outrange them this way. If you're in the air and your opponent is on the ground then why are you short hopping into them with Robin?

Arcfire is fine against Little Mac. The bad ones will run into it. The good ones will super armor/dodge through it or wait for a timeout. Depending on what you're up against you just adjust your strategy. They can't do everything at once. I've used Arcfire into Arcthunder and had a Little Mac Haymaker through both right into my shield for an easy Bthrow into a kill. You can keep coming up with scenarios where he beats Arcfire but there are just as many scenarios where Arcfire beats him.

Don't Thoron a Kirby that's landing.
Other charged projectiles don't cover the screen near instantly with such a long hitbox.
Don't use Wind Jab.
Stop using Fire Jab when your opponent can DI out of it.

Robin is not perfect. There is a counter to everything. Don't counter yourself by thinking of all the ways to lose. There are tactics and characters that she struggles against. That's just the nature of a fighting game. As of now you can still win most matchups as Robin. Players like Nairo get fair mileage in tournaments with Robin. Robin is not top-tier but she's perfectly usable. If customs are allowed then her main flaws are mostly dissolved thanks to Fire Wall and Speed Thunder.

If you want to discuss areas that Robin struggles in and figure out how to overcome them then I'm all for it. I don't think it's productive to talk about how much your character sucks and how the character loses in X or Y scenario. We're all in the same boat here. I try to develop strategies to win against these difficult matchups but I have trouble against Greninja, Shiek, and Link just like you guys. In fact, I just lost to a Zelda that only used B and Up B the entire match because I didn't know how to respond. But just as often as that I'm wrecking Marth, Pacman, and many other players. Either way I'm enjoying the heck this character. Even if you have the mentality that you have to win, you need to approach these challenges with the mindset of overcoming them and not "well this sucks because my character is bad". We've already pointed out enough problems to make Robin cry forever so how about let's work on solving them?

 

[Fenrir VII]

Well yes and no. I think it's important to discuss and understand the limitations and weaknesses that your character has. I came to this board after hitting a bit of a wall playing Robin, only to see that a handful of people are having the same issue. I think he certainly does have weaknesses and bad matchups that will, quite frankly, keep him down at least somewhat until something is discovered to counteract them. Can we deal with it? Yes possibly, but that doesn't make it go away. It especially stings when other chars seem to just have better tools overall.

Fact is, some matchups restrict you from using Robin's fantastic zoning tools, forcing you to use less-than-stellar tilts. That seems really tough to deal with. (for the record, I like the little Mac matchup)

Like I said in my first post here, I think we'll need to find a way around this... Possibly thru smart use of the item books and sword.

I'm not as pessimistic as you seem to think; I'm just being realistic and saying "here are the issues. Let's deal with them." I'm not going to drop Robin. Heck, my 2nd in Melee was link. I've worked thru this kind of thing before and had fun doing it.

 

[Mac2492]

We already agree. I don't think you're pessimistic. I just want more people to start thinking of ways to deal with these weaknesses in addition to pointing them out. Hopefully it didn't seem like I was calling you out specifically.

On the topic of Robin's tilts, they're awful for combos and KOing. I try to chain Utilt into Usmash or Uair depending on the %. Ftilt chains pretty safely into Arcfire or a charged Thunder spell. You can sometimes follow up with Uair or Fair at low/mid percents. Dtilt is a good poke though I haven't gotten as much mileage out of it due to its short range.

Another strategy that has gotten me mileage in most matchups is mindgames with aerials. A lot of characters get a guaranteed combo by following a throw with an aerial or special. Robin does not. If I knock my enemy into the air I won't always go for that quick aerial. Instead I'll sometimes pretend to charge Thunder then immediately cancel into a surprise Uair /Fair before they can respond.

Robin lacks reliable, spammable moves (aside from Uair) but once you do get a hit it's fairly powerful. Robin's strength isn't so much in specific moves as it is her ability to keep her opponent guessing. That's one of the reasons I stress the importance of holding Arcthunder/Thoron charged even if you don't intend on using it. Arcfire is laggy as heck but as soon as you try to punish me for it there's an Arcthunder or Levin Sword in your face. It's really satisfying once you gain momentum with Robin and play one step ahead, though equally unsatisfying if you lose momentum because every move is incredibly punishable.

 

[False Sense]

It's really satisfying once you gain momentum with Robin and play one step ahead, though equally unsatisfying if you lose momentum because every move is incredibly punishable.

This pretty much sums up my experience with Robin. At his/her worst, Robin's attacks aren't fast enough to hit opponents before they hit you, and you can easily be punished again and again for messing up. At his/her best, Robin can keep foes at a distance and constantly barrage them with powerful spells and Levin Sword strikes, chaining them together for massive damage. I imagine the key to mastering Robin is to keep foes at just the right distance to avoid being punished while capitalizing on Robin's zoning capabilities. While this isn't easy, a Robin with momentum in his/her favor can be a terrifying force to go up against.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I've hit like 5 Levin sword hits in a string before.... HAS to be demoralizing with the sound and animation.

Robin's fall speed is actually REALLY good for baiting and punishing airdodges, so practically any throw or random hit puts you in a better than 50 50 chance at continuing it. Fair strings into 2nd jump dair spike in some cases at low %. (got a guy to rage quit with that one)

Also platforms really do make all the difference. SH side B puts the flame on the platform. Jumping nosferatu is an amazing shield read for the opponent on a platform (as shielding would be safe there otherwise) and I probably don't need to explain why uair is great in that scenario.

If custom moves are allowed, I do think there are variations of thunder and elfire that are just plain more useful... So that addresses some of my concerns. I don't think Robin is a lost cause (he has an interesting matchup spread so far too), so I'll stay around and see where we go

 

[Xerox the beautiful]

If customs are on and stages with platforms are available I have trouble thinking of a character who I have a really hard time against otherwise it can be a struggle but I think I still have enough tools to beat all but a few characters if I can figure out the right strategy

 

[Kevandre]

I would have maintained Fire Emblem characters all having a counter. Nosferatu's a good idea and all but.. I don't really see most people utilizing it a whole heck of a lot. I'm not sure what tome would best encompass it though

 

[False Sense]

I would have maintained Fire Emblem characters all having a counter. Nosferatu's a good idea and all but.. I don't really see most people utilizing it a whole heck of a lot. I'm not sure what tome would best encompass it though

On the contrary, I've found Nosferatu to be an exceedingly useful tool. It requires quite a bit of precision, yes, but mastering that precision is very beneficial, and proper use of the move can extend Robin's lifespan by a noticeable amount. The move has the potential to (quite literally) tip the scales in Robin's favor; that's not even going into the fact that the move is a command grab, and thus is a way for Robin to punish opponents attempting to shield against his/her attacks. At the moment, however, I don't think enough people are fully utilizing that potential.

 

[Hong]

I would have maintained Fire Emblem characters all having a counter. Nosferatu's a good idea and all but.. I don't really see most people utilizing it a whole heck of a lot. I'm not sure what tome would best encompass it though

Nosferatu could have been a counter, where dark magic would bind the attacker in place. I've always thought it would be cool if someone had a move where you grab someone who attacks you in close-quarters. Was hoping a Counter would show up as a custom special move.

 

[Champ Gold]

What's missing, in my opinion is better options with ground attacks.

All of Robin's best attacks comes from the air and Robin needs some help with his speed and atleast reach since he has the slowest walking speed and most of his moves can't KO without the Levin Sword.

I just hate jumping around a lot as Robin since I need more movement options

 

[Tattles]

Nosferatu could have been a counter, where dark magic would bind the attacker in place. I've always thought it would be cool if someone had a move where you grab someone who attacks you in close-quarters. Was hoping a Counter would show up as a custom special move.

Yea, Nosferatu could have just as well been a counter instead of a command-grab, quite frankly, whether it binded them or not. Although it would probably be overall a bit less effective, I think I would have preferred it. Nosferatu just feels far too niche of a move to pull off too effectively to me, like I have to say to myself "Ok I feel like hitting them with Nosferatu so i'm gonna go out of my way to land it."