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Fire Emblem PoR "Another one bites the dust"

Rajam

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Soo, for all the FE fans around here, I'm thinking of doing some sort of competition with FE9, aka PoR. I've never done such a thing before and hence idk how it'd turn out, but I'm thinking on the next:



"ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST"

General concept: Each chapter, a unit must die​

- Ruleset (version 1.0):
  • Game: Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Hard Mode
  • Each chapter, a unit is chosen by the rest of the players. That unit must die during that chapter.
    • For example, let's say players A, B, C & D are in the competition.
    • Player A is going to play chapter 3. On principle, Ike, Titania, Gatrie and Shinon are the units that can play that chapter.
    • Before player A actually starts to play that chapter, players B, C & D discuss during a set time (48 hours) and pick a unit between those: Titania.
    • Player A is forced to get Titania killed during that chapter. Player A can choose when, during that chapter, Titania will die. The only restriction is that player A can't finish that chapter with Titania alive.
    • When it's player B's turn to play chapter 3, players A, C & D may choose a different character to die (doesn't have to be Titania too)
  • Units whose death would cause a game over on a certain chapter can't be chosen to die in that certain chapter (obviously, Ike can't be chosen, ever).
  • Units can't be chosen to die in their very 1st chapter playing (so, Boyd, Titania, Oscar can't be chosen to die in chapter 1, Rhys can't be chosen in chapter 2, Gatrie & Shinon can't be chosen in chapter 3, etc.)
  • Units that are required to be alive in order to recruit other units, can't be chosen until past those chapters (so, Marcia can't be chosen until past chapter 14 in which she can recruit Makalov; both Lethe and Mordecai can't be chosen until past chapter 15, in which at least one of them needs to be alive in order to recruit Stefan, etc.)

---

.... ok, so who wins anyways?

The player with the lowest kills made by Ike.

---​

So yeah, expanding further on the main concept, one of the "exploits" it has is the temptation to solo with Ike. So, I need(ed) a way to prevent this. I think this "victory condition" accomplish this issue (and gives a "victory condition" as well).

Another "exploits" are restarting chapters and BExp abuse. I'd like to add a penalty to these. Basically, I thought of adding a "+10" to Ike's kill count for each chapter restart, whether it is for playing the map again from the beginning, or for BExp abuse (so, it's technically allowed to BExp abuse, but each time a restart is made to get better lvl ups, a "+10" penalty is made).

---​

ALL these rules are preliminary and ALL are subject to changes based on suggestions. Particularly, the "+10" penalty for restarting chapters is pretty arbitrary and if someone can suggest something not-arbitrary, is more than welcome (maybe even not implementing a penalty at all). Also, I'd like to add some "prizes" for accomplishing hard stuff, for example, a "-100" prize if the Black Knight is killed; etc.

The things I'm not willing to change are the game (FE9, PoR), and the main concept (each chapter, a unit is chosen by the rest of the players to die), unless someone more experienced tells me such idea is impossible to put at work. Absolutely everything else is open to discussion (ruleset, victory conditions, and all sort of small details).

---​

For now, the main thing I want to do is gather interest; if enough players want to join, I can make a separate thread here in DGames (we can discuss changes in that thread as well).

So, anyone interested in joining?

Playerlist:
  • Rajam
  • #HBC | Ryker
  • Raziek
 
Last edited:

Rajam

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I think it's pretty similar to BExp abuse. Prologue for example: the prologue is basically just Ike raising a level. I could restart the prologue until I get a lvl up I like; I could restart a different chapter if at some point I dislike the lvl ups I've got so far.

At the end I'm ok with not penalizing restarting, but we might as well remove penalties from BExp abuse then.
 
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~ Gheb ~

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Penalizing BExp seems kinda pointless anyway.

What are you gonna do if there's a tie for the amount of Exp gained by Ike?

:059:
 

Rajam

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Was thinking about that....

- If there is a tie in the kills made by Ike, total number of turns to complete the game works as untie.
- If somehow there is still a tie at this point, whoever finished the game 1st takes precedence.
 

Raziek

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I already pointed out (indirectly through Ryker) that the restart penalty is pointless and completely unenforceable.

Penalizing restarts is completely pointless.

BEXP is on the honor system, because literally nobody is going to tell you even if they DO do it.
 

Rajam

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Honor it's implicit in the results we'll be giving, if they're accurate or not, and overall in whether we're telling the truth or not.

That said, note that if we leave BExp abuse unpenalized, I will abuse it; i don't even care saying I usually do

---

Moving onto some other things: Information / Reports

  • Since in this mode we must choose each chapter which unit will die, it implies that, at a bare minimum, players are required to inform each chapter which units do they have available.
  • Furthermore, I also think that a full-detailed report of units available should be given. It would include level, stats, skills, and maybe even supports (maybe even weapons & items if we push it).
  • Example: Rajam is about to begin playing chapter 4 (he already got killed Oscar in chapter 2 and Titania in chapter 3). His available units are:
    • Ike, lvl 4, stats: blah blah blah; skills: none
    • Rhys, lvl 3, stats: blah blah blah; skills: Serenity
    • Gatrie, lvl 15, stats: blah blah blah; skills: none
    • etc etc.
    • The rest of the players have 48 hours to discuss which unit Rajam must get killed in this chapter. In case of no concensus, majority wins. If there isn't a clear majority, Rajam himself picks a unit.
  • Information of total turns played so far in the game, and information of how many kills Ike has made, will be kept hidden until all players have finished their playthrough.
 
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Raziek

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I don't think it would be significantly MORE entertaining without detailing the stats. Otherwise it's too easy to **** someone over.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I agree. It's much more entertaining for the three players to have to discuss off of the limited information of what units they've given to the fourth player to decide what he likely is using. The best challenge runs are the ones that let a player use all the resources available to him and force him to use said resources intelligently. There's no reason for this to be the end all, be all difficulty challenge rather than one in which you are forced to use units you wouldn't and correctly invest your resources across your team so they don't all go down the drain.

As for BExp. It depends on the group. You could restart it over and over and get the levels you like, but we can disapprove of you. I'm not really going to crucify you if you restart a one stat level though. Regardless though, it is completely unenforceable without having players document every single level up.

Bands allowed or not? I say yes because it's another resource for players to have to manage intelligently.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Everybody can use BExp. Nobody knows how long their BExp-fed character will actually be alive. There's no need to regulate it imo.

:059:
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Also, thoughts on whether you should need to leave all or one of the characters required for recruitment alive?
 

Raziek

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What's the verdict on characters that re-join, like Gatrie and Shinon?

Do they have plot-armor until they re-join? Can you kill off Gatrie before his re-join time?

If you DON'T kill off Shinon before he leaves, does that give Rolf 'plot' armor until he re-joins?
 

Raziek

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Also, thoughts on whether you should need to leave all or one of the characters required for recruitment alive?
I am of the opinion that one and only one is required to be left alive.

So for recruiting Devdan ( Soren, Mist, Rolf, Sothe or Tormod) you can kill off all but one.
 

Rajam

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Everybody can use BExp. Nobody knows how long their BExp-fed character will actually be alive. There's no need to regulate it imo.

:059:
Yep, pretty much this anyways. If you BExp abuse a character, you'll just get it killed asap. It assumes we reveal the stats of our characters though.

Deffinitely yes for bands. Also, people is free to pick whether they want Random or Fixed Mode.
 

Rajam

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What's the verdict on characters that re-join, like Gatrie and Shinon?

Do they have plot-armor until they re-join? Can you kill off Gatrie before his re-join time?

If you DON'T kill off Shinon before he leaves, does that give Rolf 'plot' armor until he re-joins?
I'm of the oppinion that Gatrie and Shinon can be killed before they re-join. In the particular case of Shinon, if he gets picked before he rejoins, Rolf isn't safe anymore (otherwise he couldn't get picked until chapter 18)
 

Rajam

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I am of the opinion that one and only one is required to be left alive.

So for recruiting Devdan ( Soren, Mist, Rolf, Sothe or Tormod) you can kill off all but one.
Yep, this. Gonna make a list of which units can't get picked, by chapter:

Legend:
This color means this unit can't be chosen because otherwise you'd get a game over.
This color means this unit can't be chosen because it's their very first chapter playing.
This color means this unit can't be chosen because it's required to recruit a certain character later.
[These brackets] mean that, if only one of the units mentioned inside is alive, that unit can't be chosen, because of future recruitments possibilities. (Example: Both Lethe / Mordecai can't be chosen before chapter 15, otherwise you'd have zero chance to recruit Stefan. If one of them is picked earlier, the other one gets "plot-armor" until chapter 15).

  • Prologue: Ike
  • Ch.1: Ike, Titania, Oscar, Boyd
  • Ch.2: Ike, Rhys
  • Ch.3: Ike, Shinon, Gatrie
  • Ch.4: Ike, Soren
  • Ch.5: Ike
  • Ch.6: Ike
  • Ch.7: Ike, Mia
  • Ch.8: Ike, Ilyana
  • Ch.9: Ike, Marcia, Mist, Rolf
  • Ch.10: Ike, Lethe, Mordecai, Volke, Marcia, Rolf *
  • Ch.11: Ike, Kieran, Brom, Nephenee, Zihark, [Lethe / Mordecai], Marcia, Rolf *
  • Ch.12: Ike, Sothe, Jill, Marcia, [Lethe / Mordecai], Rolf *
  • Ch.13: Ike, Astrid, Marcia, [Lethe / Mordecai], Rolf *, Jill
  • Ch.14: Ike, Makalov, Marcia, [Lethe / Mordecai], Rolf *, Jill
  • Ch.15: Ike, Stefan, [Lethe / Mordecai], Rolf *, Jill
  • Ch.16: Ike, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Rolf *, Jill
  • Ch.17: Ike, Rolf *, Jill
  • Ch.18: Ike, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Tanith, Rolf *, Jill
  • Ch.19: Ike, Jill
  • Ch.20: Ike, Calill, Jill
  • Ch.21: Ike, Tauroneo, Jill, Calill
  • Ch.22: Ike, Jill, Calill
  • Ch.23: Ike, Ranulf, Haar, Jill, Calill
  • Ch.24: Ike, Lucia, Bastian, Calill
  • Ch.25: Ike, Geoffrey, Largo
  • Ch.26: Ike, Elincia
  • Ch.27: Ike, Elincia
  • Ch.28: Ike, Dragon
  • Ch.29: Ike, Elincia, Laguz royal

*: Rolf only gets "plot-armor" in case Shinon was still alive by the end of chapter 7.
 
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~ Gheb ~

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Everybody's gonna BExp bomb Jill right away only to have her killed as soon as Haar joins imo ;P

:059:
 

Rajam

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So, an example of how a playthrough would go:

  • Prologue
    • Units available: Ike
    • Unit chosen to get killed: None can
  • Ch.1
    • Units available: Ike, Titania, Oscar, Boyd
    • Unit chosen to get killed: None can
  • Ch.2
    • Units available: Ike, Titania, Oscar, Boyd, Rhys
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Oscar
  • Ch.3
    • Units available: Ike, Titania, Shinon, Gatrie
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Titania
  • Ch.4
    • Units available: Ike, Rhys, Shinon, Gatrie, Soren
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Shinon
  • Ch.5
    • Units available: Ike, Boyd, Rhys, Gatrie, Soren
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Boyd
  • Ch.6
    • Units available: Ike, Rhys, Soren
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Rhys
  • Ch.7
    • Units available: Ike, Gatrie, Soren, Mia
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Gatrie
  • Ch.8
    • Units available: Ike, Soren, Mia, Ilyana
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Mia
  • Ch.9
    • Units available: Ike, Soren, Ilyana, Marcia, Mist, Rolf
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Soren
  • Ch.10
    • Units available: Ike, Ilyana, Marcia, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Mordecai, Volke
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Ilyana
  • Ch.11
    • Units available: Ike, Marcia, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Mordecai, Volke, Kieran, Brom, Nephenee, Zihark
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Mordecai
  • Ch.12
    • Units available: Ike, Marcia, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Volke, Kieran, Brom, Nephenee, Zihark, Sothe, Jill
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Volke
  • Ch. 13
    • Units available: Ike, Marcia, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Kieran, Brom, Nephenee, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Kieran
  • Ch.14
    • Units available: Ike, Marcia, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Brom, Nephenee, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Nephenee
  • Ch.15
    • Units available: Ike, Marcia, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Brom, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Stefan
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Marcia
  • Ch.16
    • Units available: Ike, Mist, Rolf, Lethe, Brom, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Stefan, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Lethe
  • Ch.17
    • Units available: Ike, Mist, Rolf, Brom, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Stefan, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Stefan
  • Ch.18
    • Units available: Ike, Mist, Rolf, Brom, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Tanith
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Brom
  • Ch,19
    • Units available: Ike, Mist, Rolf, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Tanith
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Tanith
  • Ch.20
    • Units available: Ike, Mist, Rolf, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Rolf
  • Ch.21
    • Units available: Ike, Mist, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Mist
  • Ch.22
    • Units available: Ike, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Astrid
  • Ch.23
    • Units available: Ike, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Makalov, Tormod, Muarim, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Muarim
  • Ch.24
    • Units available: Ike, Zihark, Sothe, Jill, Makalov, Tormod, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar, Lucia, Bastian
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Jill
  • Ch.25
    • Units available: Ike, Zihark, Sothe, Makalov, Tormod, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar, Lucia, Bastian, Geoffrey, Largo
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Makalov
  • Ch.26
    • Units available: Ike, Zihark, Sothe, Tormod, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar, Lucia, Bastian, Geoffrey, Largo, Elincia
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Zihark
  • Ch.27
    • Units available: Ike, Sothe, Tormod, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar, Lucia, Bastian, Geoffrey, Largo, Elincia
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Tormod
  • Ch.28
    • Units available: Ike, Sothe, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar, Lucia, Bastian, Geoffrey, Largo, Elincia, Dragon
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Largo
  • Ch.29
    • Units available: Ike, Sothe, Devdan, Reyson, Ulki, Janaff, Calill, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Haar, Lucia, Bastian, Geoffrey, Elincia, Dragon, Laguz royal
    • Unit chosen to get killed: Reyson
 

Rajam

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so, just to be clear, at the end we agreed on not publishing details of our units (other than who we have available)?
 
Last edited:

Rajam

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Final details!

- About the Black Knight: Do we count that kill if Ike defeats him?

- Discussions: When a player announces he is about to play a chapter, and tells which units he has available, he has to wait a maximum of 48 hours until the rest of the players tell him which unit must die. All discussions are public and made in this topic.

- Deadlines: I don't plan on adding deadlines per chapter, instead, an overall deadline of 4 months will be given to complete playthroughs.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Being able to kill the BK with Ike is absolutely contradictory to the win condition of this challenge. It's impossible to kill the BK without losing.

:059:
 

Raziek

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Not necessarily. A 'test tube' Ike raised entirely on BEXP could theoretically do it, couldn't he?
 

~ Gheb ~

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For some reason I thought the one with the lowest amount of Exp gained by Ike wins.

:059:
 

Rajam

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For some reason I thought the one with the lowest amount of Exp gained by Ike wins.

:059:
Problem with that wincon is that, since Ike's promotion is forced in chapter 18, players can be tempted to "solo" with Ike prior to that, which is half the game :/
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I don't care about the BK kill. It's one kill. Either way it shouldn't make or break the game.

I much more care about deadlines. As in, don't have them. I also feel like discussions about what unit to take should take place privately so that they can extend farther into the future (much farther). The last thing I want to do is get up one morning when I have nothing better to do and say "I want to play Fire Emblem!" and then wait two days before I can play. It needs to be streamlined and publicly discussing them also gives the runner more information than I would like.

Also, good luck putting an end date on runs. You're just gonna end up with incompletes as players can and will get distracted. The true objective of this run is to give each player an interesting play experience and their own story to tell. The "winner" is a secondary objective.
 

Rajam

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ok, since the opinions on the BK have been fairly neutral, I'm deciding that the BK kill will count.

Also, I think we have everything covered and we're ready to begin. If discussions are to be private, I'm going to PM you both later a QT to talk.

Since in the prologue and in Ch.1 no unit can be picked, the 1st pick is for Ch.2. Good luck!
 

Raziek

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Don't bother sending us a QT, we'll probably just end up using Skype for the discussion on which of your units to kill off.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Speaking of waiting. You two and I need to go ahead and discuss chapters ahead of time. Obtain a list that stretches into the future. That way, when someone needs to know what to do on the next chapter, they don't have to wait and can just ask. I'm not saying REVEAL it ahead of time, but do prepare it.
 

Raziek

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Oh, right, there was a rule I wanted to contest.

For the Devdan recruiting group of kids, I don't think Soren should get armor in 5/6/7/8. Only in Chapter 4, which is his first chapter.

The only restriction on that group should be that you can't kill all 5. Soren shouldn't have armor until you pick up the other ones, it doesn't make sense.
 

~ Gheb ~

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You don't actually need any special rules for Devdan because Tormod is immune during Ch.16 so he can always be recruited - even if Rolf, Sothe, Mist and Soren have already died.

:059:
 
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