Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

 

[Dabuz]

The murderer in this picture is a fox, Sherlock's avatar is a fox (or something similar)...scumslip!

Do you have any last words Mr. Fox?

 

[Jdietz43]

This whole interaction is hard because I want to vote Gheb on gut for his voteblocking advocacy, but I'm the one who accidentally started the mechanics talk he went along with that made Washed vote him...

oh well

Vote: Gheb

#hypocrite city

 

[Jdietz43]

The murderer in this picture is a fox, Sherlock's avatar is a fox (or something similar)...scumslip!

Do you have any last words Mr. Fox?

*says the person with a Horo avatar*

(could not resist pointing that out)

 

[Dabuz]

Discussion seems to be getting stale since only a few slots are talking.

Was gonna wait for Scary to get in here to answer my question but W/E.

It might be polite, but it's not conducive to reads.

He's right in saying that it's just #HBC. I wanted to see if he would come to that conclusion given how recent he is to DG.

So, that's it? Now that he gave you the reasonable answer do you not have anything else to say? What if he gave you a different answer? Do you get any reads from Scary's response?

 

[Dabuz]

*says the person with a Horo avatar*

(could not resist pointing that out)

 

[Jdietz43]

 

[Town PR]

This whole interaction is hard because I want to vote Gheb on gut for his voteblocking advocacy, but I'm the one who accidentally started the mechanics talk he went along with that made Washed vote him...

oh well

Vote: Gheb

#hypocrite city

Does this situation mean Gheb is scum? Are you sure that's why WL is voting him?

 

[Dabuz]

 

[Jdietz43]

Does this situation mean Gheb is scum? Are you sure that's why WL is voting him?

Well I don't see you giving any opinions on the matter. Why don't you enlighten me.

 

[Town PR]

Wow sure is dodging the question in here. I'll be happy to elaborate once you answer my questions, I don't need an essay just a few lines explaining.

 

[Jdietz43]

You literally haven't given a single opinion yet that I've seen. I don't think that's too much to ask. My opinions are out there already.

 

[Town PR]

Did a new rule where you had to have an opinion on something to ask about it come out while I wasn't playing? Can you link it to me?

If not, please go ahead and answer the questions. You're being stubborn for no other reason but than you can.

 

[Jdietz43]

Did a new rule where you had to have an opinion on something to ask about it come out while I wasn't playing? Can you link it to me?

If not, please go ahead and answer the questions. You're being stubborn for no other reason but than you can.

Sure thing bro

Before you ask Scary, I think it's polite to give your thoughts on it.

If you have an opinion on Gheb, say it. I'm not giving you a free pass or clone opinion.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Dabuz
First game was either that BBR game we had or newbie 25. Trying to gauge peeps experience??

 

[Town PR]

I guarantee I won't be 'cloning' you answer if that makes you feel better.

 

[Jdietz43]

Point stands. You can piece together my opinion so far if you read my posts.

Laundry I can't know for sure about because I'm not him, and I'm questioning why you even bothered to ask or question it. If you can infer his intent, then why not mine.

 

[Dabuz]

If you have an opinion on Gheb, say it. I'm not giving you a free pass or clone opinion.

I liked what you said about Gheb pushing the merits of voteblocking in this game, finding it pretty thoughtful from your end and agreeable that it's not pro-town. However there's not enough from that slot to have an opinion otherwise.

@ Dabuz
First game was either that BBR game we had or newbie 25. Trying to gauge peeps experience??

TY. You've been here enough games that I think Nabe should know you have some experience.

 

[Town PR]

Wow you're really not going to answer are you?

What do you gain from withholding this information? How does it benefit town?

I'm not going to infer from previous posts, I want you to commit to a stance and reasoning behind it. I'm not the one voting for someone right now (well technically my slot is but that's not really my area).

 

[Jdietz43]

@ Dabuz both of those questions were at Town PR lol. That quote from you was to prove a point.

 

[Jdietz43]

Wow you're really not going to answer are you?

What do you gain from withholding this information? How does it benefit town?

I'm not going to infer from previous posts, I want you to commit to a stance and reasoning behind it. I'm not the one voting for someone right now (well technically my slot is but that's not really my area).

I get unbiased opinions from lurking slots who have the gall to imply they have opinions and not reciprocate after my generosity.

If you have an opinion or a problem with my opinion I don't want you to hide behind me to give it. That gives you a free pass to armchair critic when you've provided nothing as far as content this game.

 

[Town PR]

vote: Jdietz

Game's been running for less than 24 hours. Commit to reasoning please. Or explain how town benefits from you not doing so.

 

[Jdietz43]

I.e. I find it mad suspicious you ask things like this and get all uppity about me "not answering" when there's already two pages of discussion with my name on it and you haven't produced anything.

Why are you cramping my Gheb vote? If it's pressure to read Gheb you're defeating the point, and if I think for sure he's scum then asking is pointless already.

Why are you asking about Laundry's intent if you can't read my own? Am I supposed to know things you yourself can't infer either?

 

[Town PR]

Again, this game is less than 24 hours in. I've been at work since about an hour ago.

I'm asking these questions because your motives and assertions don't make sense to me. You claim Laundry is voting based off your pressure, but I see no evidence that he's basing ANYTHING off of that. In fact his post leads me to believe he's pushing off of something else entirely. But you didn't even consider that, you just tack him onto your ideas and roll with it.

Answer my questions, you've very clearly demonstrated you CAN'T justify not answering them from a town mentality as you've conveniently not noticed it the two times I've asked now. I will be happy to weigh in (and spoiler, maybe even justify my reads!) after you decide to play the game here.

 

[Nameless]

this is legitimately one of the ****tiest d1s ive had the misfortune of being forced to partake. why the **** are ****** talking about claims and classes and centralizing discussion around that?

in other news jdietz continues to scum it up in every game we play together

fos jdietz

 

[Jdietz43]

Laundry is not voting Gheb off of "my pressure". He's voting because of the conversation I accidentally started on mechanics, which you'd know if you read.

[...] but I'm the one who accidentally started the mechanics talk he went along with that made Washed vote him...

As for certain why I can't say any more than you probably can because he gave no explicit reason, but I already gave my opinion. Is it for pressure? I don't know, asking would ruin it. Does he have more? I don't know, we're waiting for him and Gheb to come back to the game.


As for mine it's for pressure based on *gasp* exactly what I was saying in the previous pages about voteblocking motivations!?

But you **** all over that for no real reason so it's all ruined now. Thanks.

 

[Jdietz43]

Now how about you tell me what your opinions are instead of ruining my reads so we get something out of this

 

[Jdietz43]

I don't know how many times I was supposed to say "gutread" and "would ruin pressure" in my posts before you got the hint that what I already said was all that I had to work with and I've been waiting for more.

 

[Jdietz43]

Town PR I full expect all of your opinions on things so far in return for this.

Because if you're going to stop me dead persuing an angle you damn better well give me way more to work with in return or I'm not okay with that.

 

[Town PR]

I'll bet Gheb was REALLY scared of that pressure vote with no reasoning behind it, damn I wish I hadn't ruined your plan man

The whole voteblocking thing is completely baseless. You think one thing and Gheb thinks another. That doesn't make Gheb scum, that just means you disagree. You can't expect every player in this game to line up with your exact mentality when it comes to picking roles, ESPECIALLY when there's hidden rolls we don't know about. Maybe someone has an ability that meshes really well with having a voteblock and is also town. Why assume that's not possible? Not only that, but while a voteblock does have better odds of hitting town that doesn't mean it CAN'T hit scum.

Point is, what you've picked IS null. Plain and simple.

But I'm glad you had me go re-read because I noticed something else I need you to clear up for me.

For now? Just that Gheb may need some scrutiny for his opinions on Gadgeteer and avocation on the scum merits of roles, gutread. Not enough for me to vote yet.

What changed between this post and the one you placed your vote on Gheb?

 

[Town PR]

Oh and I can't believe I forgot to say that regardless of the word, you still claimed Laundry was voting based off of things you had done with no reason to think that.

 

[Jdietz43]

Washed directed me back to where Gheb deflected J and himself, and I started to see potential motivation for Gheb looking for a new center of attention other than himself when he played along with mechanics.


Well what am I even supposed to think. It's like asking why you voted J randomly halfway through the Day. I can't know for sure I can only guess, and as far as I could tell it was based off Gheb's response to a situation I started.

 

[Jdietz43]

Like unless you're about to lay down some bulletproof explanation, you're basically asking that question for no discernable reason other to to **** on my guess/perception.

 

[Town PR]

I want to understand why you're doing the things you're doing because right now I can't rationally explain it.

 

[Jdietz43]

Here let me lay it out:

I have a gut read on Gheb to distrust him this game. The reasonings are out there weak as they are, the disagreement with me, the deflecting of J and Washed. Enough that of the few people active so far I wanted him to talk some more. Washed puts down a vote, so maybe he has something. Maybe if he has something good and I help him with vote pressure it will lead somewhere good for reads, Gheb scum or no. So I did. Sherlock and many others have Dabuz, so we can get Gheb.

Then you come in and ask me if I'm sure Gheb is scum. Well the answer at this stage of the game is of course "I don't really know", but I can't just say that and have Gheb still talk to me and Washed, that'd ruin any iota of pressure. Then you asked me an unknowable question about Washed's motives that I don't understand why it matters: he wants reads on Gheb that's good enough for me.

But you haven't said anything. That's not okay, because it means you can just mirror whatever arguments other people come up with if you're scum: and if they're weak and wrong, they take the fall. And if they aren't, you weren't the one condeming a scum-mate. I'd much rather that you discussed what you felt like at least a little bit, and it's not like my crumbs of suspicion were about to change whatever you had in mind, so I asked you, probably for the same reason you were asking me: letting people to things without explaining means they can do whatever they want. You literally had all the opinions I had given already to work with and they were all out in thread in the half-baked form they existed in, so there was no reason to go on until Gheb came back unless you had something significant to add. So I didn't and hoped you would elaborate first.

I didn't want you hiding, because it's something I feel I could've done in a game if I was scum to get through the day for free.

Now please at least discuss what you see or don't see in Gheb. You dragged everything out of me and still haven't said a word to your own opinions. (and if your talking points are mine I'll probably just ragequit the game)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Only if you go read KvK and tell me how we'd get reads from a mightily similar situation.

What's the comparison here?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

So, that's it? Now that he gave you the reasonable answer do you not have anything else to say? What if he gave you a different answer? Do you get any reads from Scary's response?

Yes.
Not to him at the moment.
Then I'd presumably be more interested in him at the moment.
No.

I get the sense you'd like me to make something up from thin air?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ Maximum Carnage

What will the gist be of WashedLaundry's first post to you upon your entrance into the game?

 

[Maximum Carnage]

First and foremost: there is no such thing as an accidental hammer in this game. There are multiple roles that cause players to take less votes to lynch, including one that takes a very powerful role (summoner) and causes it to be killed at L-1. You will be held responsible for any and all hammers that may fall, so be aware of the possible consequences of your actions.

According to the sample role PM in the OP this is the town wincon:
However, this is not the exact wincon that townies have been given in their role PM - the wording is different. I know that because I have received the town role PM.
Wanna clear yourself as town too? Then read your town role PM carefully and tell us where the difference is. Don't forget that you cannot directly quote your role PM and need to paraphrase. I'd like @Overswarm or @Ryker to clear themselves that way.

I have a few questions about this post.

First, did you expect the two of us to respond?
Second, would you have treated it as a clear had I responded?
Third, did you ask the mod whether or not referencing your role PM in this manner would result in a modkill for your slot or did you simply post it?

A lot of people will probably misread the slot. I'm also a bit afraid that there aren't enough players I can trust to lynch them in case I consider it necessary.

Gheb, you currently read as possible scum trying to "break the game" to set-up a false clear on yourself and throw off people who would otherwise try and read you. You come off as pandering to a slot which is unlike you. I'll be keeping an eye on what you do further forward, but I'm curious what you were actually trying to accomplish with that first post.

So, I wanted to talk about this a little bit:
Obviously this is something new as compared to OS's old set-up, and given that I don't think any of the default roles/classes had anything to do with them, it's probably a fairly safe bet that these are either related to newly created specific roles (likely of both factions) or ambient game mechanics. If Gova's drawing directly from flavor, we can probably expect these to change every day (as the wording seems to imply).
No voteblocking is cool though, that's deffo pro-Town.
I realize this is kind of an empty discussion point as we can't say much beyond speculation, but I wanted to at least bring it up so I get interested in this game more quickly.

For the layman: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Law_System_(Tactics_Advance)

I would not be so quick to assume it was a scum role. There is also Cid, and undeniably good character by the game's end who is the head judge and who's abilities affect the laws. His origin is on the other side, so he may be either scum or independent, but I would not immediately assume that it is of scum origin. It may even have come from the mod as a predetermined mechanic given how it works in the game.

Could I ask though, going off of Washed is saying, why are you so afraid of OS/Ryker?

What exactly did you hope to gleam from this?

That's not what I am honing in on. It's your wording and the fact that you are making such a big deal about it. (To be fair, me and the other questioners have made it a bigger deal with our own questions but that's a tad moot.)
Plus, this is the only interesting thing to have happened in this game so far. There is pretty much no content besides this. So tell me, what's another interesting thing to comment on in this game so far besides your need to FUD Ryker/OS and need a clear right here, right now on a slot that has 0 content posts atm.

@ #HBC | Nabe You are FoSing J. What do you think about this post and his line of questions aimed at Gheb right now?

While we're at it, vote-blocking is inherently anti-town in nature because it will block town's vote more often than not and infringe upon the natural majority that town needs to win the game. It's not a role I'd hand town.
That said, in a game where players can willingly select voteblocking powers via the basic roles, it is null like Gheb admits. Not because of the role itself but simply due to the availability of it.

It doesn't matter. I really don't care that much about the roles players have selected. It is far more important to see how they use them. Analysis of the decisions will provide more than analysis of the selections.

@ Dabuz @ Jdietz43 @Gheb_01
What did you hope to gain from your mechanics discussion about role selection?

And then we just talk about roles and ignore the fact that Gheb's not responding to anything J or I laid into him for so he can talk about mechanical **** like how roles and claims should work.

Oh wait, so you actually think you have something?

Gheb's play is really weird. I'm not sure why he's over reacting as much as he is. Need to read more in depth when I'm not dealing with band ****.

What makes it an overreaction?

I wanted to talk to Ruy about it first before I moved it. I saw it as town because of the fact that if he's scum, he'd be talking to other players and they would point out marshy's in the game as a hydra, would they not? You're right that it's probably null, but that was my thought process.
vote: Gheb
original wagon do not derail

I've stated that I could see moves being made by scum Gheb. Tell me on why I should be on this wagon.

Tomatoes tom-a-toes, let's go play KvK like Washed said then. I got interactions with Dabuz and Gheb, so far the two most questioned slots: opinions on mechanics that are potentially meta-motivated, and opinions from both respectively to help me read them. It served it's purpose imo

Oh? What parts contributed to your read? Do you think it could be easily faked as scum talking about mechanics? If not, why? If so, what did you gather through that?

Does this situation mean Gheb is scum? Are you sure that's why WL is voting him?

What exactly is your take on Gheb's posts thus far and the observations made about him?

 

[Raziek]

@ Raziek @Gorf
Thoughts on the Dabuz Wagon? Any thoughts/suspicions?

Why are you asking me? I know both of you know how I feel about ****ty RVS wagons, and I already posted my opinion on the wagon itself, albeit unexplained.