Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[~ Gheb ~]

Am at a tourney, will post later today.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I still suspect bardull, just less than you. Bardull hasn't relieved my concerns of his slot. I'm fine with his lynch ToDay.

But, you're not interested in pursuing him? Or for that matter, in pursuing anyone?

@ #HBC | Nabe - Ran is different this game but i'm not getting an inherently scummy vibe from it.

Okay, but if you could state your Ran read? I'm not interested in Ran meta.

@Detective Sherlock Hound you are surprisingly relevant to my developing read on Ran, feel me?

@ #HBC | Red Ryu specifically.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

If Dabuz and J are town post game I am a terrible mafia player for trusting in gut new player tells.

What does this mean?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: @ ranmaru

I think this is your only problem and it isn't really a problem. I still scum-read you, and backed down from my MC read because others have given good points. Is it wrong for me to want to get scum lynched as soon as possible? Is it wrong for me to question a doom that is supposed to happen on Night 4 (that you yourself said would happen)??

What you're saying has 0% to do with what I'm saying. If you were town with a scum-read on me, if you were Careful Methodical Townie, you would have weighed all evidence on me with a level head. You did not do that. You went through the thread, gathering posts that fit our interpretation of the thread.

Now, you could have been town. Say you already had it in your head that I was scum with MC. You could have approached a reread and subsequent case with that bias, and looked for all of the posts that fit your bias, while unintentionally excluding those posts that didn't fit. Could have.


But here's the incriminating bit: you actually couldn't have. You intentionally and with presence of mind omitted the post from your case (cherry-picking).

The thing is, you have yet to respond to my points on you, instead you are trying to add the fact that I didn't use your opinion on Ryker/OS in the case. I didn't need it. (If I thought I did, I would have used it).

Ranmaru willfully weighed a post by me (talking about my interactions with MC throughout the game) against his connections case that was centered on my interactions with MC throughout the game,
noted that it was related to his argument,
decided that it wasn't necessary to bring it up,
and willfully excluded it from his case.


Ranmaru put this case forward as if it were his actual train of thought through his read of the thread. But it cannot possibly be a townie's train of thought, because he has just stated that there was a post he consciously looked at and decided it didn't fit. Townies don't do that.

Bear in mind, we are not talking about an irrelevant post. We are talking about a post that is exactly the opposite of his case's interpretation of the thread. Instead of attempting to take it apart to make his case, he avoided dealing with it. It's a post made by the target of his case, about the content of his case, posted prior to his case.

Tell me how your post would support or defeat my points here:

Don't be facetious. You know that what I'm saying has nothing to do with these points, and everything to do with the Nabe/MC argument you're trying to put behind you. I am not attempting to counter a case with my argument. I am calling you scum.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Addendum

This demonstration should clear up what I think is the haziest bit of my thought process on Ran. I'm analyzing his statements, which might seem like it leaves ambiguity in wording choices. This post shows that to be false; it deals with the stark difference between what could have been said, and what was said, by Ran.


Hypothetical Situation 1
Nabe: "Ran, why didn't you discuss my post where I talk about how much I love Taco Bell in your case about me and MC?"
Ran: "I didn't think it was related."

Hypothetical Situation 2
Nabe: "Ran, why didn't you discuss my post where I talk about how Evil Eye wrote a chainsaw defense for Ronike in your case about me and MC?"
Ran: "I didn't think it was related."

Actual Situation
Nabe: "Ran, why didn't you discuss my post where I talk about me and MC in your case about me and MC?"
Ran: "I didn't need it."

 

[#HBC | J]

I support a Ranmaru push at the moment as a side thing while my vote can't be on Bardull. Original wagon should stay on Bardull.

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What did you do then?

I put all players with a post # divisible by 5 onto the bottom of the NAR. In that case it was only Ran. I'm not sure though if it was me again who sabotaged the NK but I find myself agreeing with Nabe a bit more here so I can see Ran scum anyway. Especially since he was roleblocked on N2 apparently.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Give me some real talk on Bardull. I know you've been pushing the slot for quite a while this game but do you see a connection between Scary's scum flip and the slot's play towards the slot?

He has replaced into HBW/Nameless slot whom I've been reading as scummy since Day 1. The push against Dietz was extremely fake, Sworddancer replaced out [yes, I am legit going to hold that against Bardull's slot], marshy has been distancing himself from Scary in a pretty obvious fashion imo and if Ranmaru were to flip scum - a possibility we have to consider quite realistic at this point - it'd also mean that marshy has chainsawed against Dietz on D1 when Dietz vs Town PR happened.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I support a lynch of either Ran or Bardull toDay. Both are plausible scumreads and moreover they could very well be scum together given how the game has played out so far. The only thing that has me somewhat unsure is the possible presence of an indie player. For that reason I will keep less contributive players on the backburner as possible lynches in case game's not won after Bardull / Ran are lynched.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

J, comment on Dabuz for me.

 

[#HBC | J]

I have already. Just read my section I tagged you in.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I swear, the whole purpose of MC being in this game seems to be to troll people. It's as if he tried to get on people's nerves on purpose.

 

[BarDulL]

Okay, but if you could state your Ran read? I'm not interested in Ran meta.

i do not think he is scum, hence 'i do not get inherently scummy vibes from him.' i honestly share his sentiments about you on the premise that i'm 99% positive you fake claimed doom to get people off you. no one has claimed doomed today so it only further verifies my initial read.

@j i'm just going to ignore you because you're tunneling my slot. it's also not really pro-town of me to have long ass back and forths with you while you're tunneling so yea.

 

[#HBC | J]

I am not even tunneling you. Wrong word.

Also I asked you questions: not asking you to respond to a long walled case. The questions are relevant so answer them, please.

 

[#HBC | J]

I laughed quite a bit at "that won't be pro-town" though because that's a good one.

 

[BarDulL]

j, you're tunneling me. this whole case is awful and you're grasping at a chainsaw defense when we all know marshy goes hard in the paint on certain players.

bbl

 

[#HBC | J]

That's not even slightly true. I haven't even built a case on you, chainsaw defense isn't even correct terminology for what I am talking about with Ditzy.

If you think the case is awful, destroy it then.

Also my questions aren't even relate really to the "case" on you. Like jeezum crow you haven't read a single thing or are truly inept to logic at this point.

Please come back with a better mindset and clarity of what is actually going on aroun your slot.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

i do not think he is scum, hence 'i do not get inherently scummy vibes from him.' i honestly share his sentiments about you on the premise that i'm 99% positive you fake claimed doom to get people off you. no one has claimed doomed today so it only further verifies my initial read.

Yeah, I wanted you to say it outright.

Questions:

• If I've faked being Doomed, what does that tell you about my alignment?
• Is your interpretation, then, that Dooming (if it exists at all!) must be an active targeting ability? Is it a mafia ability?
• What is your read on Gorf?

 

[BarDulL]

yea i realized after that i used the wrong term, freudian slip after reading gheb's post about chainsaw defenses.

semantics aside, you're saying that marshy bodied ditzy to protect scary from getting bodied. i'm saying that you're grasping at straws and it's not true, but you're not listening. you want my slot to fit perfectly into this equation of yours but you're not considering the alternatives. i can only surmise that you're tunneling me as a result, and you are. there is literally no point in interacting with you or having these back and forths while you're in this kind of mindset; when we're both at a clear-cut impasse and nothing gets accomplished other than a thread suffocating at the whim of our discretion.

personally, i feel that instead of us having these back and forths, we should be talking to people in the background, outing more avenues of approach, and so on and so forth. that's essentially what i've been trying to do d2 and d3 wrt Swiss/Vult, whom whose slots have been a huge blank to us, Swiss less recently as a result of KWK.

 

[BarDulL]

Yeah, I wanted you to say it outright.

Questions:

• If I've faked being Doomed, what does that tell you about my alignment?
• Is your interpretation, then, that Dooming (if it exists at all!) must be an active targeting ability? Is it a mafia ability?
• What is your read on Gorf?

1. the act of faking being doomed is not scummy to me per se, however the context behind faking the doom status, and your earlier play on d1, makes me uncomfortable because there wasn't a good reason for any of it. after you claimed 'doom'ed you had a second wind because people decided they weren't going to lynch you for your play, but i'm not convinced.

2. i toyed with this question already. hypothetically speaking it could be a special town role since doom as far as i know isn't available as an ability for generic slots...if it exists. what is the meaning of this question in the context of our interaction and how is it relative to finding scum?

3. gorf has pretty much been chilling in the background and i wish he'd get into the nitty gritty of things like some of the other slots.

 

[Dabuz]

He has replaced into HBW/Nameless slot whom I've been reading as scummy since Day 1. The push against Dietz was extremely fake, Sworddancer replaced out [yes, I am legit going to hold that against Bardull's slot], marshy has been distancing himself from Scary in a pretty obvious fashion imo and if Ranmaru were to flip scum - a possibility we have to consider quite realistic at this point - it'd also mean that marshy has chainsawed against Dietz on D1 when Dietz vs Town PR happened.

Where did this Ranmaru dislike come from? I don't recall you saying anything significant about the slot before.

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

@ ranmaru idk if youve said but what are your reads? What do you think of Gheb, Bardull, J? Who's scum if its not Nabe/MC since you've backed down from that?

Do you agree with the Bardull wagon? If yes, for what reasons? If no, why not?

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

@ ~ Gheb ~ which of Bardull and Ran do you prefer? You think they are both scum together, right? But if one is town which is it?

 

[ranmaru]

@ ranmaru

"WHY?!"

"But wh-why is he sc-scum?"

Here is KwK coming in NOT caught up, trying to get a summary. This is him not doing his own work, and it's suspicious to me because he can simply agree/disagree with it if it's easy enough to.

Anyone want to explain why Scary isn't already dead?
His claim was literally impossible and contradicted the rules. He said he got a unique role AND got to choose a lvl 1 AND lvl 2?

This is telling to me. He's focusing on the botched claim, because it is easy to scumread someone simply for 'scum slipping' or 'role slipping'.

I don't care an ounce about Scary's play. His claim is impossible, meaning he botched his fake claim. Anyone fence sitting after realizing that is scum

To follow up with the last quote, what is suspicious is him focusing simply on the claim so he can scumread on people 'fence sitting' on it. It is an easy statement to make and is malicious.

That case is a wild conspiracy theory that deserves to be overlooked.
I have a strange feeling about Nabe, but insinuating a connection to MC is dumb and trying to lynch Nabe is really dumb. There's no risk of him winning by surviving to N4 (I sincerely doubt he's like... an indy with that as his win-con or something), so we can ignore him until then and see if he dies from Doom or not. There is literally no reason for Ran to waste his time like that throwing out pretty dumb theories.

Roleblocked Gheb and Ran

This is suspicious to me too. He discredits me twice and is ****ting on me and even saying that 'there is no reason for me to even think that'. This is suspicious, because he states he gets a strange feeling from Nabe but never elaborates further nor does he try to develop his read on Nabe to quell his concerns. Instead he chooses to state how dumb my opinion was and that is it. I can't find the wording but he is choosing to make me seem bad instead of actually trying to at least reason with me. DABUZ did do this, KwK didn't. Another obvious reason why Dabuz should live while KwK should die.

He states the 'strange feeling' only because I have given a solid case on Nabe, but he feels no need to talk about it. This is selective.

Just got back from work and I'm going out again
Vult, Bardull, Ran, Gheb all dying would make me happy
DSH, MC, Nabe, J should live
Vote: Bardull

This right here especially. He has substantiated the least out of the cast (maybe he is besides vult). In one sentence, KwK is scum for coming in and scumreading me without reasoning, and giving a 'should live/shouldn't live' list without giving reasons either.

Liked a lot of Town PR's posts so Ran probably town too
Past that I don't know yet but I'll try to get more
let's win this thing

This is my concern. He liked my slot early on, and mentions that past that he doesn't know. Why would he mention this? To show that he is not caught up entirely, and to show that he has reason to change his read on me without reason. Now, he entirely reads me as scum WITHOUT putting up the reasoning. THIS IS BAD.

I personally think we have enough to see this game to completion
I got to the part where Scary claimed and it looks wayyyyy too loaded
Gheb's reaction to the whole thing is gross. He stayed really on the fence and then decided to bus in the end. Likely mate.
Bardull did likewise, also probably a mate. He also didn't get voteblocked for being on a town lynch like he should have.
Let's lynch those 3, get a town win, and then forget about this game. But let's at least see it to completion.

No where does he show anything about me. He scumreads Gheb here, but not me. He never answers my question about why he roleblocked me. This is suspicious to me. Also, this is in the same page of the last quote. HOW DO THESE TWO MAKE SENSE? He posts that he saw the Scary claim, and posted Gheb/Bardull reasoning. YET NEXT POST states past my 'town pr' posting he had no idea. He never elaborated further on this and this shows that he has no reasoning, just that he wants to scumread me.

Summary​

• Weak reads or no reasoning at all
• Focuses on botched claim instead of actual play to have an easier push
• Uses botched claim to insinuate anyone fence sitting to being scum
• Discredits my theory and calls me dumb yet doesn't go into his strange nabe feeling nor does he try to develop his nabe 'feeling'
• Disconect with him being caught up to Scary's claim yet doesn't have a read on TOWN PR after some point, then states to have RB'd Gheb and Ran (without reasoning)

I propose we lynch KwK toDay instead of Bardull, if no one wants to lynch Nabe. I also want to say that Dabuz and me were the only ones to really give reasoning towards Bardull. No one else did. Think about that for a minute. I want people to re-establish their reasoning succinctly, ESPECIALLY KwK.

 

[ranmaru]

On Bardull, I don't really see any scum intent. To me he is the guy who you most likely hit up and be like "Bro, let's bounce reads" and he would and I hadn't gotten anything scummy from Bardull. He didn't really seem to be doing anything nasty wrt his meta read of me. I think he noticed a difference and I told him that it most likely was me being busy. Now I'm so involved that I'm leaving my paper in the dark. (It's almost 11pm)

This came to me on re-evaluating him and seeing KwK as scum. His slot still hasn't relieved my concerns by his own actions but I don't want to lynch him over Nabe or KwK. Otherwise I would think I would be forced to stick with a Bardull push since no one wants to lynch Nabe due to his Doom.

There is no case on him either, only what Dabuz has stated and what I have stated in the past.

 

[ranmaru]

For Nabe.

Spoiler

YesterDay, MC was leaning scum partially from the Ryker head, but mostly null through their entire interaction with me, which consisted largely of persistent antagonism. I came up with reasoning at the time that would suit the pair's actions as either faction. The remainder of their interaction with me was hard in the other direction, ignoring me when it was clear I was no longer a lynch option. Again, I took this as null. At the end of the Day, there was an interaction between MC and Scary that made

ToDay, MC's posts have (mostly) had inherent and/or stated intent. The OS head toDay is making posts that could actually be read, unlike the neutral antagonism of yesterDay -- they are working towards an agenda, rather than towards nothing. And most importantly, the reads they're expressing are largely in line with my own.

Consider for a second my point of view. I'm voteless toDay, and many of my scumreads are heading for a lynch of another of my scumreads. I can't contribute to the lynch, but as a Sage Lv 1, I can roleblock two of the people on that lynch. Why wouldn't I support that lynch? Meanwhile, another player was a nullleaningscum for me D1, and had no meaningful interaction with me before toDay. And, that player is the one person I can be sure toDay didn't send in the NK last Night. Why wouldn't I take an opportunity to interact with that player further?

Red. Nabe leaned scum on Rykerhead of Carnage D1. Ok. I see this, and don't see how it can change my case. Nabe still acts like a reflexive fish through the entire D1, yet I have already dropped my MC read. (To an IGMEOU) MC is still an enigma, and it is good to question his motives regardless. I simply thought "Ok, it seemed like he was angling to bus, and yet created this scenario to bus Scary together." The botched claim [which still remains to be questioned], also sparked this. Dabuz made great points and I left it alone.

Green. Nabe states he then starts to lean town on OS head, from 'stated' intent. This doesn't help me at all. I am currently Null on OS/Ryker.

Blue. This is my main problem with Nabe. He was voteless, but this doesn't stop him from what he was doing TODAY (towards me). He didn't question his lynchpicks like Gorf or Gheb.

Purple. I see Nabe RB'ing MC as null. Who is to say scum wouldn't RB their own mates to be able to say "Yeah they wouldn't do that so MC/Nabe is not a thing." This is of course wifom so therefore null, but that doesn't make them NOT scum together. This only shows that MC didn't send in the NK, but most likely Scary from the information given. What actually defeated my theory was Dabuz, and as soon as I saw that I backed away from my MC read. He also was scumreading him in that very page that D2 DAWN broke, but it subsided somewhere in the mid-day.

Nabe, talk to me. Why do you think MC was pushing you all day yesTerday? Today you are working on a lynch that I agree with, but i'm just wondering how you feel about him regardless.

See this? I was wondering about this before, and asked Nabe about it. Yet he never replied to me about it. This was what I also attributed towards 'weird nabe play'.

I will tell you one thing. Carnage isn't willing to have a back and forth, he simply wants to get done whatever he wants to get done. YesTerday I was asking him about Nabe to get his thoughts on him. No, he only wants me to talk to him about Nabe. Not the other way around. Yet, it's the same with Nabe.

They both are ignoring their play from YesTerday to push this NA lynch through ToDay. It isn't telling, simply concerning. Especially when Carnage pushed Nabe for no frickin' reason, and then there is an obvious disconnect toDay.

Underlined, you can see why I got annoyed with Nabe and MC not answering questions about each other. It's a problem when you can't answer a question about the guy you think is A-OK because POSSIBLY DIDN'T SEND IN THE NK. (That question being about his big push the day before) if he had a townie mindset he'd be able to answer but yet, he chose not to. Here is a post that MC ignored:

@ Maximum Carnage , thoughts on this post? I'll give you mine after yours. (Hint: It's of Nabe) I did a re-read.

So I think you all can see my mindset and why I was bothered with the both of them, as I asked them about each other at different times and nothing as if they were ignoring me so they could keep on pressing what they were pressing without being distracted. That is why I felt that way.

This only weakens one of my points in my case. It is still plenty solid. I'll show how and why it is weakened. This also shows I have had genuine intent wrt Nabe and MC. I will again repeat my points:

1. Nabe asks JD how he'd feel about getting hammered, pseudo scumhunting
2. No previous reasoning to suspect Dabuz, weak reasoning for J (source above)
3. Avoids Scary wagon when he can put it at L-2
4. Votes his own townread which he believes is Doctor over Scary.
5. Gives up on his J read on D1 but doesn't go into it D2. (I would think he gave up because he thought he was dead D1)
6. Is visibly looking to his own survival over finding scum.
7. Doesn't follow up with some of his final reads on D2, and instead claims most of his na results instantly.

Red. My point here is weakened. Yet he still soft-claimed them, so it still helped him with the appearance of 'doing something during the night which shows I have a thought process' other than being a fish. MC not sending in the NK shouldn't prevent him from pushing any further. Again, Dabuz's reasoning did weaken my theory, the root of it. And it's right of me to concede to it. I don't remember him doing much to develop his reads on Gheb and Gorf. He also scumread Carnage on the dawn of D2 but it subsided somewhere in mid-day. (I asked Nabe for when he stated his read changed)

Everything else is still fair game and also unanswered by Nabe.

Really enjoying every direction Acro's taking.

This is more weird D2 Nabe weird play. Again, he is buddying Acro with a push he was publicly not even pushing all the way.

Our reads on J seem to be similar, although mine is not so well-informed or even well-formed.

Right on the nose.

More of the same thing. This is what I was talking about.

which is scummy as ****; I'm asking you what you thought of a post whose existence and content was determined by your agenda, not my own. It's also telling that you only thought you needed to address a post @ #HBC | Nabe at all when you knew I wasn't going to be a problem washed away via lynch.

You see? He was talking about scummy things from MC but it stopped somewhere in D2 and I don't know where and how. @ #HBC | Nabe would you please quote where you dropped your suspicion of Carnage exactly?

FOS: @Hardbody Warrior

If from your POV I'm scum, then why:

- are you awarding me three day/night cycles to further my nefarious plots?
- are you doing this at all when I'm probably lying and not dying anyway?
- do you not think this is a ploy from me to avoid lynches ?

INSTEAD of following up with some of his reads, he ****s on Marshy for doing what others are doing ToDay.

 

[ranmaru]

However, Bardull is scum and that is a fact. Sworddancer replacing out on D1 is evidence enough. Sworddancer always replaces out when he's scum and he never replaces out when he's town. It's really that simple.
Vote Bardull

This is a problem. This coming from the guy who doesn't like to be on lynches that have no 'weight' or rather logic to it. I have tried to push scumreads stubbornly even with lurker votes and he would yell at me for it, but here he is doing the same. There is no case on Bardull except what Dabuz and what I said.

@ ranmaru : Leave Nabe-bby, till D5. He isn't of importance at the moment. Follow me for a bit, the journey has been good thus far.
Vote: Bardull
If I get both Bardull and Acro dead toDay, I will be super happy because at least one of them is scum and that just is lovely to not have to go through 2 day phases or lynching.

I don't think the Bardull lynch should happen. Just as I didn't want a Dabuz lynch happening, this Bardull lynch is materializing out of thin air. Voting without reasoning or even a case.

I support a Ranmaru push at the moment as a side thing while my vote can't be on Bardull. Original wagon should stay on Bardull.
Vote: Ranmaru

Why do you support a me push, J? Last I heard you had me as null. What changed?

Vote Bardull
I have read everything in this game, so do not worry about that despite everyone insinuating that Ryker doesn't exist. However, it was a long night phase. I intend to read the first two days again.

This is another problem. Currently a null to me due to backing away from my theory, I don't see the picture of him simply voting onto Bardull. I don't remember you scumreading him. Also, yesTerday you pushed on Scary to clear yourself and Nabe. Do you still think this applies? Is this why you aren't doing much toDay? What have you learned from the Scary lynch that has made you slow down ToDay? (If you already answered this in the last question, you can ignore this)

If Nabe is scum, he might be trying to use his fake claim to send out roleblocks to disrupt town more, possible but I'm not as bothered by him doing what he is doing.

Ryu, I understand how you say that it's bad to totally throw out claims. But I think it's also bad to totally throw out Day Play, as it can help us roll into the night with the right mindset.

 

[ranmaru]

My #2067's purpose is to show anti-townness, such as reasonless votes and throwing away dayplay, and I'm trying to pinpoint these and try to go into a better direction.

@ BarDulL : Vote KwK or Nabe if you want to save yourself, otherwise you die.
@ Dabuz : I want you to look at my KwK case, and talk to me about Marshy/Bardull. Do you think this lynch has any weight to it?
@ #HBC | Red Ryu : How is your read shaping up on Bardull/KwK? I know you won't want to lynch Nabe ToDay, so how about a compromise of KwK? Do you think this (the Bardull) lynch has any weight to it? What do you think of Gheb's vote/reasoning?
@Vult Redux: Where are you? Need you to state what wagons between Nabe/KwK/Bardull you agree/disagree to and why. That would be dashing.
@ Maximum Carnage : I think you should vote onto KwK. Yet, your opinion is no where really. I want you to think about it. I can't do anything with people who simply vote without reason (or public reason) and others letting that happen.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ignoring all questions.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote: Kreative Whiz Kids

Forgot to put the vote on.

 

[ranmaru]

Something I just happened upon that is interesting:

It's a bit strange that WL would pick you with any role that's on the table, but I can't say I'm into hounding Swiss about it. Is it really relevant to the Scary situation?

WL/Swiss's random roleblocking of MC lines up with KwK roleblocking someone who he held as town. It's concerning and should be looked into in the future.

 

[BarDulL]

i appreciate your concern ran but for the time being i will not be approaching a given finite amount of options any time soon in terms of lynch candidates. but here's where i stand after the wagon that occurred on my slot:

people i am not against lynching:

MC
Gheb
KWK

in no such discernable order. dabuz is questionable and i would be willing to compromise to his lynch.

people that need to speak or i will be up for lynching them:

Vult

people that i'd prefer to speak up and out reads but would not lynch them:

Gorf
Acro's replacement

people i'd be willing to take to take to end game with me most likely unless something incriminating comes up:

J provided he gets over himself about my slot
DSH
Ran

people that are doomed:

nabe

 

[ranmaru]

Could you go into the reasoning for MC/Gheb/KwK?

 

[Dabuz]

Gonna respond to your case piece by piece Ran.

Let's be honest here, the first thing you quoted IIRC was from D2. As a hydra who joined the Day late, I don't think what he asked for was unreasonable at all, pretty much a solid null.

Second thing is similar where he was a hydra that joined late, a player who was in the game since at least the start of D2 should have more reasoning than role analysis that but in KwK's case it's like, he even brought up before he wanted a summary on why Scary is scum and it seems null to me.

See above, although I do think a player who just joined in shouldn't be trying to force others to make a stance based on a role claim.

When it comes to his response to your Nabe case, I read it that he thought the case was dumb because of Nabe's doom status, and his implication is he gut feels Nabe is scum but doom status makes it not a worthy avenue. Although if that's also in response to your case on MC, I do agree he should elaborate just so his reasoning is out in the open.

100% agree he needs to explain his should live/ should die list and that we should all be pushing to understand his reads.

Once again, KwK does need to explain his reasoning but I think you're making a bigger deal than it needs to be because at that point it was obvious he wasn't caught up and not even up to the part where your hydra became just you.

I do want to see more from KwK than "this guy was on the fence till it's time to bus, they must be scum." We are on Day 3 and he had the night phase to catchup and have some more thoughts.

You have a good point that KwK needs to explain why he thinks the way he does more and this is actually a pretty decent avenue to push down because we definitely shouldn't let him skate by and say his reads without the logic behind those reads. I'm still looking at Bardull as lynch priority #1 today just as an FYI.

Vote: Kreative Whiz Kids



Speaking of which

@Vult Redux (name tagging isn't working on him?) What are your thoughts at the moment?



For Bardull, I think his wagon is fine. The people on the wagon toDay were "1. Bardull (6) dabuz, dabuz, J, Gheb, MC, KWK"

The way I see it is I know i'm town, I trust J, Gheb i'm not sure on but still want to lean Indy, I don't distrust MC, and I need more from KwK to make an opinion on him. None of my hard scum reads are on the wagon. Bardull himself came in near the end of D2, threw out some very barebones thoughts, and asked a few questions that were pretty much answered in the thread by that time. His approach toDay is kind of what I'd expect, there is a wagon forming on him due to the previous players on his slot doing questionable things and looking bad on Scary's scum flip, so Bardull is trying to defend himself and push other slots to get pressure off of himself. Bardull's play is pretty much null at this point because he was a late D2 replacement so most likely as either alignment his content wouldn't be too good during D2. His approach toDay is flat out null IMHO because as town or scum he'd be playing how he is. Getting some elaboration as to his reads outside of how slots have approached his wagon would be nice though.


@Gorf
Can you prove you're voteless today? What are your thoughts on the current wagons?

Ignoring all questions.

Why?

 

[BarDulL]

MC's day 2 play mostly stagnated the day with NA analysis and became a hotbed for scum to lurk and not have to worry for reasons i feel aren't good enough. Additionally, MC has basically gotten on each lynch thus far with the excuse 'i'm a soldier so i need to be on the lynch' and hasn't really explained themselves to the point where i feel it's satisfactory. then he gets on my lynch almost arbitrarily, perhaps under the presumption that my death was unavoidable, or perhaps it was a lynch of convenience, not necessarily because i was town or scum.

WL (now KwK's) early play was unsettling and i felt that he wasn't actually trying to contribute to town, but rather WL was going in and out of the thread in spurts with mostly fluff and a distinct lack of direction. KwK came into the thread nearing the end of D2 and ended up voting for scary out of what appears to be policy via a botched claim to my understanding, but little else of substance or value, so this doesn't inherently give him a town pass in my book. to top that off, the slot now wants me dead for reasons it shares with the J slot; that somehow marshy had this plan to body ditzy so that scary wouldn't get bodied while i didn't take up the mantle to push scary. but he hasn't actually overturned the plausibility of townmarshy simply doing his townmarshy shtick and me reading scary as null.

gheb wants me dead and has called my slot scum for reasons that are predominantly illegitimate. i feel like he's being opportunistic in the recent push against my slot but not really giving me anything convincing as to why he feels my slot is scum. more like he's just 'putting his fingers in his ears' and yelling 'bardull is scum' but not really being convincing about it.

 

[BarDulL]

hoping dabuz gets bodied during the night as well, but i don't see scum granting me the pleasure of such a luxury

 

[ranmaru]

@ BarDulL , I keep seeing that point against you. I want you to talk about these two points on Nabe and how you think it may be related:

This is on D1 btw:

1. 
   

   [*]Avoids Scary wagon when he can put it at L-2
   [*]Votes his own townread which he believes is Doctor over Scary.

hoping dabuz gets bodied during the night as well, but i don't see scum granting me the pleasure of such a luxury

Why? I actually want to keep him around as well.

 

[ranmaru]

Dabuz, I will get to you on the response tomorrow, appreciate the response.

 

[BarDulL]

i remember that discussion, but not the context. i'll look at it tomorrow.

re dabuz: painfully null, riding off J's case of my slot and eagerly following J as can be seen by his vote patterns, has tried to use flavor to incriminate my slot as opposed to analyzing my day play, claims i'm null now but originally claimed i was scum at the start of the day phase.

 

[BarDulL]

actually, he's not following J a lot per se. i missed J's recent ranmaru vote. dabuz definitely was following J wrt my slot however. perhaps it's better to say that he jumps aboard wagons starting up but never spearheads them or brings up his own original content.