Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[Maximum Carnage]

it looks like you are trying to "call out" these players because they are intentionally being inactive or something and set them up as the lynch pool.

I notice this list is also a list of non- power players in this site's culture (except maybe J?). In my experience from playing on site where I have a lot of reputation and sites where I don't (e.g. here), I find people are more likely to ignore/forget your posts in the latter. No one (except maybe you, admittedly) has bothered to challenge/agree with/comment on my posts yet, meaning I am in the thread less, meaning I appear invisible; not because I'm particularly inactive but because no one's bothered to pick a fight with me yet.

basically it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and I find it problematic that you are making a post like this trying to shift the focus of the lynch pool by giving players a superficial "invisible" label (as opposed to just "naturally" getting these players more involved by simply challenging their opinions or asking them questions [which, again, you admittedly also have been doing in many instances; however I still find this post problematic]).

so let's talk about that. what's your motive here?

My motive is that this game needs those players to come forward. This game has multiple "power players" and each could take control of the thread in a myriad of different ways, some public some subtle and make it very easy for the passive half to just slink around.

There's been a lot of posts on D1 and I've tried to get as much content as I can before some silly lynch pushes itself to completion, but that entire list is invisible not just to me but to you too.

"They're just ignored" is hardly the case for me and I don't have a strong read on any of them. Sherlock has posted and is constantly in the thread (I see you now Sherlock), but actual chewable content is minimal.

If you'd like some proof that it is my motive you'll find...

EXHIBIT A - I haven't publicly put a read on any of them, and neither have you. Or anyone else.

EXHIBIT B - I have publicly put a read, or questions, or direct statements or a combination of the others out in the open on the players not on that list. Others have too.

EXHIBIT C- I have publicly questioned, commented, and probed on posts for the majority of that list. Some as simple feelers like "Hey Raz buddy, tell me the flavor!" and starting the stopwatch to see how inactive they really are. I've hit most of the cast now, so you know I'm not just goofing off.

EXHIBIT D- I could have easily pushed a lynch onto Gheb, or onto JDietz, and none of you here would have been able to pin me as an initiator or finisher. I did not, but have instead moved forward and put my thoughts out in the open plainly.



As for "naturally".... I have. Already. Some subtle to answer specific questions, some less subtle. I got to pester Nabe over and over again and I got responses out of him and made that very visible. Raz's inactivity check not-so-much. Washed Laundry's re-read confirmation very subtle.

But "naturally" only goes so much unless you just want people to ignore you. At some point you have to take a broad net and see what bites.



Or see who thinks those people aren't inactive and are doing just fine.

Vult, do you have a read on any of the following players?

Raziek? (clock his time from when I ask flavor and when he posts)
Sherlock? (I'm leaning town, personally!)
Gorf? (*gorf.jpg*)
LBScary? (he'll get lynched on D4 so ignoring atm)
Dabunz? (Leaning town!)
Vult? (that's you, plz ignore)
J? (apparently busy?)

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Scary, if you can't read me all you have to do is ask.

Which you should be doing anyway. If you don't have a read on me after me 50k words, what is going to happen that makes you will get one later?

Bring on some questions, show me.

That's fair.

Them walls are just nuts lol. I feel like so far any push you've made is strictly for the sake of pressure. Fair to say? Also, I feel like Vult nailed down a pretty good point with the labels placed onto the inactives. Possible to address that? I'm thinking that you generally want to get more varied content up so far but that's just my guess.

 

[Town PR]

Right: But why did you even need to wait so long for the answer. In the question you basically tell Gheb to say "yes I forgot" unless he wants to sound like the scummiest person alive, and no matter what I'd expect him to say so to save face as either alignment. You basically just handed it to him. You should have been able to weigh on it at least a little at that point. And saying "I have nothing" and "Null, could lean scum" is vastly different. One implies you have no clue whatsoever, and the other implies you have reason to suspect him if vague. The key is: you'd have to have seen something or felt some pressure to move that direction and you didn't simply say so before. It seems like fear.


We all wish it was easier lol.

I explicitly stated the alternative I was really expecting in my reply to that post. YOU were the one who expected that response, that doesn't mean its the only one. And no, its really not. You can decide to read it as different, but that just means your not interpreting it as I meant it and instead choosing to paint me in a light that matches the opinion you've already formed.

I don't get why you said this when you voted Jdietz. Specifically the "commit to reasoning thing. Care to explain what you meant by this?

Jdietz flat out was ignoring all my questions. I wanted him to concretely explain why he was taking the actions he was because they weren't something that made sense to me. Even if I disagreed with his logic, at least I would have been able to see something behind it instead of a big 'no YOU do it first!' deal.

You can do better than that.

Well, you're not wrong. Lets boil this mess down a bit, and I'm going to expand a bit with Ran's reads as well as he's been focusing elsewhere while I deal with slamming my head against a brick wall.


Lets start off with the hot topic, Gheb. As I type this I'm realizing well **** maybe I shouldn't lead with this one because I'm STILL not going to really have much to say on it. I'm not confident in a read on Gheb. I really don't like the idea of his trying to clear someone (and much more importantly, himself) from the very start of the game and still have a hard time believing that someone of his caliber would just forget such a gaping hole in his plan existed. But its not impossible. He's been pretty sparce since his vote on Laundry, but its also only been like a day since then and people have jobs and school and junk that sometimes gets in the way.

@ ~ Gheb ~ , am I unjustified in thinking its a really long shot that someone with your experience would forget something like that? Put yourself in my position. How would YOU approach a situation like this?

My current biggest town read is still our good friend WashedLaundry. And yes, I will openly admit its because he's thinking the way I'm thinking. I like the way I think, so therefore I like Laundry too.

@WashedLaundry, talk to me a little bit about Jdietz. I want less about his interactions with my slot and more about his eagerness to make something happen. Though by all means don't let me stop you from commenting on the former as well.

Nipping at WL's heals in the race for town reads is Dabuz. The whole mess with Dabuz not knowing who was in the Nameless hydra is much more telling that Dabuz hadn't put any thought into the game outside of casually talking in pre-game, which in turn leads me to believe he doesn't have a partner to discuss with. Continuing down this line of thought, I don't think Dabuz is sneaky enough to fake the responses following people like RR's pressure.

But this is pretty much old news, consolidated a bit. Ran has a few things he'd like to address though:

@ #HBC | Gorf , you've been a bit more in the shadows that I would have expected this game. Who's your number #1 target at the moment? Is there someone you think is a more viable lynch target today by a good margin?

@ Raziek , where are you??? Same question as above applies to you as well. Ran finds it highly suspect that you've only shown up to talk about flavor and mechanics, as well as to quote unquote derail the ****ty Dabuz wagon. I'm actually completely in agreement with him in that I want to know WHY that wagon needed derailing. Pls clarify, and also play at all.

@Detective Sherlock Hound, Ran sees a lot of townie intent in your play. I'd personally still put you guys much closer to the null mark (especially since I'm not entirely sure Ran isn't saying that just because you've supported our slot in the past), but I think you're a fairly solid town read for the hydra at the moment.

This is a massively reduced version of what Ran wanted to post, but the rest of that will be much more relevant once we get some more presence from the less active players.

Lets recap:
Town - DSH, WL, and Dabuz
Null, lean scum - Gheb
Scum - Raziek, Jdietz

 

[#HBC | Scary]

ninja'd by response

 

[Gova]

1. Nameless (1) Vult
2. Raziek ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. WashedLaundry (1) Gheb
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J ()
7. Gorf (1) MOD
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR (4) Jdietz, Dabuz, Dabuz, MC
11. Jdietz43 (4) TPR, DSH, Nameless, Nameless
12. Gheb_01 (1) WL
13. Nabe ()
14. Vult Redux ()

Not voting - Raziek, Nabe, Gorf, J, Scary

With 14 playing it takes 8 to lynch!

Deadline is February 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)

 

[Nameless]

11. Jdietz43 (4) TPR, DSH, Nameless, Nameless

what the ****? why was there talk about jd being at -2 floating around?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

"Damn what a long day. I sure hope none of my games have a pile up of posts!"

*enters thread*

*sees 4 pages in 4 hours*

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Because some people don't pay attention :D


Nameless, both Town PR and JDietz are at L-4 due to our HBCrews.

Temporary truce to make the silent people speak?

 

[Raziek]

I've been putting off a thorough read because there's a lot of **** that just looks like Gheb being a hobgoblin and JDietz trying to break his record on how far he can shove his foot down his own throat.

@ Maximum Carnage : Now that I did it for you, what was the point of asking me for that flavor business? Was that Ryker trying to get me to play, or was there a deeper purpose for it?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

In that case why do you have one modvote instead of three?

I never moved my vote from dabuz, so it's not like I'm "voting" I guess? I dunno but I'm sure happy lol.

Town PR vs Dietz up to #461 on page 12 feels weird on both ends. I can't seem to articulate a thought with myself as to why, but interaction just seems off. IGMEOThem.

voting gheb for trying to clear himself OR for supporting voteblocking roles or w/e is dumb. it's not scummy.

unvote

@ Maximum Carnage you said he would get salty and readable and you were wrong /: lame wagon.

ah yes, a perfect example of a scumbag whining about extremely general things and not calling out specific people to look like he has the town's best interest while not making specific enemies nor providing anything constructive.
vote: nameless

I hate to be the debunker of pressure but you're not going to make that slot budge lol. Direct your attention elsewhere please . And truth be told his other head will be easier to read when he comes in.

I'm sold under one request, I want @@Gorf to explain why he doesn't/ didn't like my slot.

I did. It was 35% **** dabunz an 65% your early game interaction between you dietz and gheb. Read back for further detail.

You being incessant is why I haven't been arsed to respond to you, at all. And when I'm not here, surprisingly enough, I'm not here.

The game is very recently underway. Stop using my name as a catchphrase and wagging your **** around, as if you've caught me twigging the thread every five minutes and feel the need to personally stamp it on my forehead with a squishy slap. Being aggressive for the sake of aggressive and annoying for the sake of annoying impairs anybody reading you, and that's the point if scum, while as town you'd be seeing it as a clever joke: meeting the expectations that other people have of an OS/Ryker hydra, and in doing so subverting the system because, in your eyes, your play is always a persona tailored to the game anyway. Well, yomi be damned, because there is no nuance to a slap in the face.


You and I both know who the double voters were on dabuz if any, and I know that you think it's terribly cute putting it as a question to me, and why you think as much, and if only knowing made you palatable by the pleasure. I'll take a pass on the mystery; frankly, I wish I'd known when it was going down so I could have been an additive influence.

Ooh am I correct to assume from this you're scum reading Carnage? Do tell do tell!

 

[Jdietz43]

what the ****? why was there talk about jd being at -2 floating around?

Scary used to have an RVS vote on me that hadn't been removed. I got him to once you went doublevoter on me.

I've been putting off a thorough read because there's a lot of **** that just looks like Gheb being a hobgoblin and JDietz trying to break his record on how far he can shove his foot down his own throat.

Loooool, I certainly try. There's very stiff competition for that record though, I dunno if I can make it...



I'm down for bowing out of active thread chatter for awhile to get some fresh voices in here though... I know how polarizing me just being in thread can be with how much I post.There's plenty to read on Town PR now and I'm starting to think with that 563 post I put the cart before the horse.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I have a feeling that Dietz is in the midst of Rake effecting Town PR so I have officially decided not to read anymore of their interaction. @ Maximum Carnage what's my read of their interaction? Before it I was feeling grimy about Dietz and flat null about PR if that helps.

oh my GORF

WHY does anyone like this guy? WHY does jd always play like scum cuz hes scum and then ****tards run into the thread whiteknighting him for no reason?

vote jdietz

Cool it's not just me. Marshy just to ensure we're on the same vibe you've already taken into account that Dietz unnecessarily ****s on players regardless of alignment correct? I felt the grime but I can't really seem to describe it the way that I'm seeing it.

This "oh man so scummy arrgh why me" **** doesn't fly.

Make a case and stick to it.

Or get off my nuts.

I've been in enough games with you now I know how you operate.

:thumbsdown:

Do your monkey dance then Marshy, see what it gets you. But you are noticed.

What's got you being so hasty in regards to pushing marshy to elaborate on your slot? It's like you're using the knowledge of marshy's refusal to elaborate as a means of undermining the credibility of the read. That **** ain't true.

 

[#HBC | J]

I don't wanna read after a long day. =[ Can I just get a pass to D2? I promise I'll do things.

*knows this isn't a reality*

*goes to read with tears*

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Did anyone else realize that Gheb disappeared?

Austria johns, they're legit.

@@Gorf, you've been a bit more in the shadows that I would have expected this game. Who's your number #1 target at the moment? Is there someone you think is a more viable lynch target today by a good margin?

Gotta say, busy johns are legit too. I'm read up though and have my opinions made. I was thinking about approaching this game with less action more thought before it started, to try n test the waters you feel me? I'd say that Dietz is my #1 target atm. His overall play has been grimy and even though I can't put my finger on why I don't like his interaction with you, his overall play has been all bark and no bite and the way he conducts his reads and play doesn't seem natural,. His speaking of mechanics early on was dumbness too.

GORF CAN YOU ELABORATE ON X?

CAN YOU EXPLAIN Y?

ALSO WHAT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't wanna read after a long day. =[ Can I just get a pass to D2? I promise I'll do things.

*knows this isn't a reality*

*goes to read with tears*

Hey J wanna coast it out together? I know you'll be good on playing and you know I'll be good on playing, it'll be nice

 

[Jdietz43]

What's got you being so hasty in regards to pushing marshy to elaborate on your slot? It's like you're using the knowledge of marshy's refusal to elaborate as a means of undermining the credibility of the read. That **** ain't true.

I was hoping I could get him to say something about it. Remember we just came off a game where he just gave the :thumbsdown: with no reasoning specifically so that no one would look at him after killing me. It's pretty impossible to discuss it with him if he's not going to say why he thinks what he thinks, so I was hoping if I could get him to we could at least take it somewhere. As it is: I can only assume things. I don't like being in that position.

 

[Jdietz43]

It's about accountability.

As for being hasty? I don't feel like it was all that hasty considering the amount of votes accumulating. I was getting real paranoid someone was about to swoop in and alpha and that would be that: day over, no discussion.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I was hoping I could get him to say something about it. Remember we just came off a game where he just gave the :thumbsdown: with no reasoning specifically so that no one would look at him after killing me. It's pretty impossible to discuss it with him if he's not going to say why he thinks what he thinks, so I was hoping if I could get him to we could at least take it somewhere. As it is: I can only assume things. I don't like being in that position.

That's because you revealed, as scum, your one big key to offing you at Night at the very beginning of the game. You gave him the fuel you dumbass. What makes his approach to you any different than his approach to anyone ever as town?

 

[Jdietz43]

Yeah I know the circumstances are different, but it gave me those vibes so I spoke up. The quote he used to lay the vote down was probably what set me off most, I feel really justified in that vote on Town PR to explore his slot and Marshy didn't say a word about why he thought it was bad, just that I was oh so obvious when I know I'm just trying to play the game here.

It obviously doesn't mean I was in the right to think Marshy was trying a repeat at the time, but I did so I barked back so to see if he would actually back his opinion up. He didn't, so now I'm not sure where that really leaves us. I can't argue with a silent man.

 

[Jdietz43]

This thread is becoming about me again and it's stifling. I'm out for the night.

 

[#HBC | J]

I feel like Apollo Justice this game. So I'm just gonna use him till I'm tired. Anyways @ #HBC | Gorf : As much as I would kill to have a game where I don't have to post, I sadly, cannot. Anyways, you missed something:

Dude yea I think I was a freshmen when I started playing here. Time flies mang lol.

I'll get back to you after work bruh

Need ya to respond to this.

ah yes, a perfect example of a scumbag whining about extremely general things and not calling out specific people to look like he has the town's best interest while not making specific enemies nor providing anything constructive.
vote: nameless

This is a head turning post for me from Vult. What makes you feel this is the most important thing to throw your vote on and completely bypass the JD/Town PR talk going on and also even Nabe/OS is more interesting but you take this post and say that it deserves your vote. I also cannot tell if you are joke voting still or if you are actually serious in this push. Everyone seems to be ignoring this so I want you to talk more about Nameless, especially with more posts from that slot.

Why do you assume that I haven't read? You could've waited for him to answer before making that post. I'll respond to you anyway.

Because you just whine about the post before actually doing things. If a post has a problem with it, from me, I will respond to it regardless. If you didn't want anyone but WL answering that post, you should have clarified and asked for others not to join in. So I see no fault in responding to it/questioning what you are doing.

Also, you've drawn some pretty strong conclusions from that case - and by "strong" I don't mean "good".

Then please bring them to light and show me what you mean, because there will be rebuttal. Then go ahead and talk to DSH/WL because they have things for you as well that require your response.

Why did you specifically limit him to anti-town and scummy instead of leaving it open ended?

I specifically brought up anti-town/scummy for this reason: I was gauging his intent behind what he truly felt behind you. I was getting the feeling you was about to return the vote to you and wanted to see whether or not that theory was correct because it is helping me read Ditzy by being a step ahead of knowing his actions. If he would have answered anti-town, it would have been me more leaning to him just being passive and not liking him but him saying you are scummy and trying to back it up has been something that makes me believe he is more town trying to (and I mean trying) to make his opinion known but becuase he is Ditzy and can't really formulate posts to the higher degree that a lot of players are requesting in a game like this makes me believe he is more likely town. By not leaving it open ended, I was able to garner a result that tailored more to what I wanted to get out and left not many avenues for him to go about not answering in a way that showed intent of purpose.

I'll go more into my Ditzy read a bit lower down on the post when Marshy brings it up.

I hope that answered the question. Since I am speaking to your slot, I'll clarify my read on you with regards to this post I have quoted.

Lot of these 'gut reads' going around these days apparently, back in my day we just called them 'guesses'.

It was not inherently scummy to assume Laundry was voting based off his reasoning, it was just wrong and/or baseless. Jdietz's real issues became clear when he flat out refused to answer my questions on multiple occasions, and not only that but wouldn't even make an attempt to explain why he wouldn't do it. 'Pressure', he later claimed, but as I've iterated already a player like Gheb is not exactly going to piss his pants over a vote from a player who's already admitted he has no real reason to vote against them. Problem is, I can't tell if that's because Jdietz just likes to be stubborn for no reason or if he truly believed that Gheb was going to buckle under his tremendous pressure and admit he was scum.

Personally, I lean still lean scum on Jdietz. That's why my vote is still sitting on him. Unless he can come back and really blow me away with a good reason to not explain the questions I asked that still never got a decent answer. There's still no evidence that Laundry made his vote off of anything relating to what Jdietz is claiming he is, because Laundry never stated a reason between that his post where he voted and where Jdietz made that assumption. Much more importantly, there was no reason to even concern himself with Gheb over an argument that was COMPLETELY null and just because Gheb didn't agree with him. I already am on the record explaining why I think role mechanics are null across the spectrum.

I'm not going to get into an argument about how you should lynch anyone you ever even suspect of being scum. That's just wrong. I mean sure YOU can go ahead and try that strategy but I'm going to try and let the day play out and see what else develops. And last I checked, not having a read on someone is the same as a null read. Now what is a null, with a scum lean read? What's that? Its still a null read, just with a lean towards the scum side? Like exactly what it looks like? Oh neat I'm glad I understand that now.

This argument is bogging the game down in the most painful way imaginable, so lets push boldly forward into new territory. @dabuz and @ Jdietz43 , if I WERE to flip scum, where do you go after that? Is there any connections worth looking into, and what about them makes them valid?

This post makes me a lot more comfortable with Town PRs slot and makes me feel that the argument we have at hand between Ditzy and Town PR is actually more of a TvT. I don't know which head posted this (I'm going to assume Glyph) but this post just screams real and pro-town intent and that makes me feel that the slot itself is Town. I like the fact that although he may be disliking Ditzy he is still leaving the read open to be improved if Ditz comes back and shows him town intent. Plus the final question is fantastic in the post and actually a question I, personally, ask a lot when I am town and I have pressure on me because even if I do die, there should be info regarding my slot. He is looking for information for town and also trying to generate MORE discussion rather than making the game all about him and Ditzy at the moment. So, in the end, I am very glad I held off with my vote on this slot because it would have been a vote that was poorly casted. The discussion has lead to what I have hoped to gain from it and that is a better read on both slots involved and also have given me insight on other slots.

TL;DR: Town PR is leaning towny for me as of this post.

- I'm apprehensive about J's approach to Gheb. Specifically I can't help but contrast to Vult who plays the third-of-the-thread social game but doesn't keep up pretense of good form.

@ #HBC | Nabe : Explain the bolded to me like I'm a child because I have no idea what that sentence even means. Also I want to talk to you about your outburst, that was very OoC, hun. I mean you usually keep a very good calm posture in games unless someone really dun ****s up, I didn't really see that besides OS just being annoying and a tad childish. I feel confident in my ability to be able to read you but you are making this hard for me by not really doing that much.

God I hate that final sentence because it's not how I want to say it but I cannot think of a better way to phrase it. I mean, basically this player who is playing this game isn't a Nabe I have played with in the past which is making me scratch my head. Just talk to me, help me be able to make at least a little headway in being able to read you because you were supposed to be a slot that I could read easy/generate reads based on what I found and I'm getting stumped this game.

:thumbsdown:

j i was hoping to be friends this game i am so disappoint

Okay, this is going @ Nameless this is going to be another larger blurb, but people seem to want my opinion on the Ditzy thing since I seem to be one of the few outliers that think he is towny rather then scummy (besides Dabuz). The thing with Ditzy that no one has really been able to show me thus far is that what makes this Ditzy play different than Ditzy normal play. I see nothing truly shocking or revealing in the fact that Ditzy = Scum. I gathered the opposite from the argument of Ditzy vs. Town PR and that's a TvT read even if it's a very slight one. It's just...it's not adding up to him being scum. His play isn't opportunistic, it's not trying to fake things, it's more that he is stumbling on his own complicated thoughts about Town PR and that's what people have been harping on. (A.k.a. Joey) In fact, I think, @Detective Sherlock Hound: has been the only slot that has given me anything to really bite down onto regarding Ditzy scum, and a solid scum-read from them. Glyph seems to think that Ditzy is scum but it lays more toward a slight scum-read. The rest of the votes are actually somewhere I would like to look at more. I just don't see the ill-intent of Ditzy's posts and call me blind, but it's nothing that makes me want to vote him. However, I am glad the discussion went the way I was wanting it to with regards to Ditzy/Town PR debate because it has garnered more reactions from others, votes, and also insights into the slots themselves.

Sorry to disappoint, but if you want me to dislike him, I'm gonna need more to even consider my vote going on him.

@ #HBC | J

can you summarize your thoughts on laundry vs gheb?

im about to reread laundry vs gheb again cuz a lot of that went over my head the first time. gheb is scum trying to clear himself and carnage? what?

My thoughts on Laundry vs. Gheb? Well, Laundry and I were basically agreeing on a lot of the same facts towards why Gheb needed to be questioned early so I relate better to Laundry this game since we have been having a similar mindset towards quite a few things. My read on Laundry is null because the guy's a good friend but in mafia I pretty much read him wrong besides that infamous indy slip I got on him that still makes me chuckle to this day. Him, in particular, agreeing with me on things that Gheb did was "bad" doesn't really show me much in terms of his alignment because a lot of people agreed on the fact that what Gheb did was bad, but I am curious to see what Laundry comes into the thread with next. Gheb on the other hand is a more towny read because of the fact that I do not think he is scum due to his reactions but moreso just a "bad posting" townie this game. His reactions are very OMGUS and shows that he is of an independent mindset, I said this earlier in a post in a response to him and after mulling it over I would say that he is town just trying to be self-preservatory because that's just how Gheb plays this game and if I were to fault him on that I would have to fault quite a few others players on that which isn't right.

However, if the last question is what you got out of the entire debate, you need to seriously re-read things and make sure that you read a tad slower. The Gheb vs. Laundry debate is more going after Gheb for bad posting rather than believing he is scum. At least, that is what I garnered form the debate.


Continuing on to personal thoughts on this game:

I'm honestly stumped. I have no solid scum-reads but I have town-reads. Sadly, those town reads consist of popular choices of wagons which makes me kind of worried that my hiatus from mafia made me rusty as hell. Regardless, until I am shown that I need to re-evaluate from flips in the game I'm going to try and stick to my guns. I will say some reads that I am confident on at the time being.

Dabuz and DSH are my strongest town reads. Then I would say towny-ish reads are Town PR/Ditzy/Gheb (explained in detail above). Null would consist of a majority of the cast but a noteworthy one would be Washed/Nabe(also explained in detail above). I am tapping my foot at certain people but I need to continuously re-read them because I have gut feelings and nothing concrete which is why I am not being that big of a wagon-pusher/town crier on who to lynch. I am being more of an observer and looking at things through a more calming pace. Regardless I need more from those who haven't talked much (Gorf/Raz), I also need Scary/Vult to just do more....relevant stuff. Their posts just come across as flighty and nothing really sticks. Nameless/MC, I reserve the right to my read on these two slots, mainly because if I say what I feel, the read will become tainted due to me believing them to be the only power players that will confuse me. (Marshy should be able to be read by D2 tops though)

Anyways that's my thoughts right now. Sorry for being busy, just life is a whirlwind and I'm having fun enjoying it. Also I really am sorry about the wall, but this is how I express my thoughts and how I usually have but this game is turning into Wall City so I will try to keep them down for the sake of allowing people to read/catch-up/respond and do things.

 

[#HBC | J]

@WashedLaundry
@ #HBC | Nabe

Tell me your biggest scum-reads and why. Washed, do you feel your vote on Gheb is still justified? Who do you see being the lynch of toDay based on things that have begun to centralized (<---Nabe that too) I also want words from you two regarding MC/Scary.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also tagging me doesn't work because I don't get any notifications from it at all. Unless you aren't supposed to get notifications but just see your name in orange. I don't know, technology is hard.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh.

Well, out of the slots that have posted so far, the two slots that I'd be most interested in pursuing would be Town PR and Dietz. People have mentioned their frustration with this game, and I gotta agree. I have a lot of null reads on players who are both actively post and not actively post, and I have a decent amount of town reads, but truth be told I feel a little lost in this game. As much as I don't wanna end up in the armchair, my lack of vote really kinda hinders my voice, and the fact that Carnage (a player I'm town reading atm) said he's got use for my lack of vote in his vote block makes me interested in using that to advance my reads.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I hate that people are calling him MC btw, that shiz is just confusing.

J are you still a theatre buff?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

EBWOP

musical theatre*

 

[#HBC | J]

Yes, I am still very much a MT buff and theatre buff. Especially considering it's my Major and I go to a Performing Arts College(this fall) too haha.

Also I empathize so much with you this game because it's a frustrating game. Are you interested in pursuing Ditzy/Town Pr because of connections, they are the most talked about now, or just to further your own reads on other slots? I can't bring myself to vote them because they are towny reads for me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[...] if you feel that way about WL, you should pretty much feel the complete exact way about me, yet there is no mention of myself in your post. If you have a scum-read on WL, then what is your read on me? You say that a big reason that you are voting him is because of him calling you out on the MC talk in your first paragraph about your vote.

Laundry is a rational player, you are not. I don't expect any sound reasoning from you nor do I particularly care about whether you vote for me or not. You have an emotion-based approach towards reading players that I have very limited access to and that I don't see the need to gain access to. Bluntly put, you could say that I simply don't take your reads - which are more *feels* than actual reads anyway - serious. I don't care if you like or dislike the things I post because it won't matter. When you feel you are right, the amount of reason required to make you change your mind is astronomical.

Poor logic isn't something I hold against you because that's just you. Laundry is a different matter and I question him because his thought process is actually intellegible to a human being.

The bolded bit is the part I want to focus on here because you are not looking for scum in your case towards WL, moreover, you are just trying to point out where he is "wrong" in your PoV/logic and because of this, he deserves your vote. This is why I do not get your play this game because it is not coming from a Town PoV, but more of a self-preservation point of view.

That's a grave misinterpretation of what happened. You've simply cherry-picked my "this is bad" comment to make it look like I shouldn't have read him as scum for his post and fail to comment on *any* of the other points I've made. I don't know if you have read them, whether you acknowledge them or not or what you have to say about them. You just emphasize the semantically most ambiguous part of my case and act as if it discredited the entire rest of my post.

What Laundry has said and done isn't just *wrong*. He keeps on asking me for elaboration which I already gave and he pretends that I haven't. That's not simply misguided townie play on his part. If it were he would've looked at what I have already gave him and asked for specifics things to comment on and try to understand where I'm coming from or eventually accept that there just isn't more to it. He's not doing that. He's been doing everything in his power to hold that null-tell against me. That's not an accident or something you do by mistake. That was made pretty clear in my original point.

Your logic doesn't add up anyway. Because I say "this is bad" you conclude that I am "not looking for scum"? And because I choose to vote Laundry as a consequence I am going for self-preservation? That's what I meant when I said that your conclusions are pretty strong. You see what you want to see and fail to consider the most obvious conclusions in the process. Sometimes bad play *is* scummy. In fact, I'd say it's quite often scummy when the player in question is not a dumb brickhead and I think after 3 years of playing with him it's safe to assume that Laundry is not a dumb brickhead. And the conclusion that voting somebody for bad play is supposedly self-preservational is something that probably only you could come up with.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Can you explain what parts of what he's said you've liked so far?

I said that I agree with a lot of what he posted. The way he argues his opinions is sound and consistent and he hasn't let the pressure on him change his positions so easily. It's good play imo. Not necessarily pro-town - even saying that I *liked* it is a bit too much - but I find myself agreeing with what he argues eventually. He also admits that he doesn't have a formed opinion on me yet and that's legit. He chooses to play at his own pace and doesn't let you hurry him around or impose your way of playing this game on him. That's all very agreeable for me but it also isn't telling. I just found it remarkable and worth pointing out.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb is a slot I still have problems with. Last time I posted, I stated I needed to re-read the thread, but I don't think I need to. He stated that he was looking forward to an alliance with Ryker, but throughout the whole questioning phase, he never brings it up again and tries to BS "It was just personal taste!" reasoning instead of sticking to what he had.

Choosing Ryker to become cleared was my personal preference because I wanted to form a confirmed town-alliance with him. There's no contradiction. Really tired of this argument.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@ ~ Gheb ~ , am I unjustified in thinking its a really long shot that someone with your experience would forget something like that? Put yourself in my position. How would YOU approach a situation like this?

1.) I don't really see the connection between one and the other. I'd like to think that everybody in this game is experienced enough to understand that scum might have gotten the town wincon in a fake PM. It would be a long shot for anybody in this game to forget about it because all of us *should* know.

2.) I'm not going to hold the way you approach the situation against you and I haven't done so. It seems pretty fruitless though and I'm not sure what kind of read you want to gain from it.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Laundry is a rational player, you are not.

what

J is the guy who holds your hand and walks you through a garden of thought and gives you more information than necessary. I guess you could say it isn't rational but it sure is linear and organized.

You see what you want to see and fail to consider the most obvious conclusions in the process.

I think this applies to you in this instance broski. If you think Laundry is scum, cool, go for it. But you have to realize that from everyone else's perspective it is a clear as glass OMGUS vote. There's not even wiggle room here. The entire time your vote is happening Laundry is having open conversations about his thought process and admitting fault in some circumstances and moving on.

If you think he's scum, keep digging and get back to us. Right now you're being the boy that cried wolf.

Player list...

People I'm willing to see lynched today
13. Nabe

People I'm bouncing between "willing to see lynched" and "don't want lynched"
10. Town PR (Glyph/Ranmaru)

People I don't want lynched
1. Nameless (marshy/Sworddancer.)
4. WashedLaundry
8. Dabuz
12. Gheb_01
11. Jdietz43
14. Vult Redux

People I don't know enough about to make a call
2. Raziek
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (Joey/Red Ruy)
6. J
7. Gorf
9. LBScary59



Town PR just smells grimy and looked to be taking advantage of JDietz' foot in mouth syndrome, but he also was doing it alone and has had no backup or protection. That means the JDietz push either wasn't intended to go through by scum (or was poorly executed, same diff) or it wasn't started by scum.

Likewise JDietz hasn't had any protection save for J (and now me after the fact, but that still counts to you guys). Don't know if I'd lynch J if JDietz was scum. Would lynch JDietz if J was.

Vult pushed on Nameless and received not only no support, but also no response. Vult + Nameless unlikely scum team and imo wouldn't expect Vult to be scum at this point.

Gheb.... Gheb I could see being scum. But it's just so easy to lynch him and his push was so early in the game I really don't see scum giving up and saying "dammit Gheb". I'd go with a Gheb lynch if need be but he'd likely flip town and all we'd learn is "Laundry = town".

Dabuz I don't have much on, but he seems to be acting alone and not pushing anything. I'd be willing to lynch Dabuz if it came down to it even if he is a part of Team Carnage but it's currently easier just to use his double vote and have him prove voteblocked tomorrow.

@ Nameless I'm assuming you're a double voter for the obvious reason and will likely lose your vote tomorrow. Do you agree that you shouldn't be on a lynch today and Dabuz should, so you would have your vote on D2 and D4?

Nameless I don't want lynched because he can be useful as a NA sponge or a surprise sledgehammer on scum later in the game. There's not enough to lynch him on, we'd be wasting time to get more out of him, he doesn't have as much influence in this game as he does in some other setups, and there's better "default" lynches.

Laundry has been very cooperative. He could be scum but I doubt a scum team really letting the Gheb stuff go. Seriously, I checked:

1. Nameless ()
2. Raziek ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. WashedLaundry ()
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J ()
7. Gorf (1) MOD
8. Dabunz (3) Nameless, Nameless DSH,
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR ()
11. Jdietz43 (2) Scary, TPR
12. Gheb_01 (3) WL, Jdietz, MC
13. Nabe (1) J
14. Vult Redux (2) Dabuz, Dabuz

Not voting - Raziek, Gheb, Nabe, Vult, Gorf

With 14 playing it takes 8 to lynch!

Deadline is February 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)

See? WL voted, then JDietz joined in. Then I joined on. At one point Vult joined on but it isn't in any of the votecounts.

1. Nameless (1) Vult
2. Raziek ()
3. Maximum Carnage (2) Dabuz, Dabuz
4. WashedLaundry (1) Gheb
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J ()
7. Gorf (1) MOD
8. Dabunz (2) Nameless, Nameless
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR (1) Jdietz
11. Jdietz43 (3) Scary, TPR, DSH
12. Gheb_01 (2) WL, MC
13. Nabe ()
14. Vult Redux ()

Not voting - Raziek, Nabe, Gorf, J

With 14 playing it takes 8 to lynch!

Deadline is February 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)

1. Nameless (1) Vult
2. Raziek ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. WashedLaundry (1) Gheb
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J ()
7. Gorf (1) MOD
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR (4) Jdietz, Dabuz, Dabuz, MC
11. Jdietz43 (4) TPR, DSH, Nameless, Nameless
12. Gheb_01 (1) WL
13. Nabe ()
14. Vult Redux ()

Not voting - Raziek, Nabe, Gorf, J, Scary

With 14 playing it takes 8 to lynch!

Deadline is February 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)

I did the same thing to Town PR. Put them at L-4 and then nothin'. Just no more pressure coming in, it always stops.

So I don't see the Gheb push or the Town PR push being pushes done with scum in mind. If Dabuz or JDietz was scum, they would have had their teammates join along. If WLaundry was scum, we'd have seen his buddies join on Gheb early on for an easy "default" lynch set up at least.

The JDietz lynch I don't really like simply because I was never on it and its two voters (except TPR's solo vote) are Sherlock and Nameless, two slots I don't have a strong read on. It should be noted that JDietz has had the most pressure out of everyone, but that there was still overall little follow-through. We might want to re-read later and see where the momentum stopped.



People I'm willing to see lynched today
13. Nabe

People I'm bouncing between "willing to see lynched" and "don't want lynched"
10. Town PR (Glyph/Ranmaru)

People I don't want lynched
1. Nameless (marshy/Sworddancer.)
4. WashedLaundry
8. Dabuz
12. Gheb_01

11. Jdietz43
14. Vult Redux

People I don't know enough about to make a call
2. Raziek
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (Joey/Red Ruy)
6. J
7. Gorf
9. LBScary59


So the list again.

Raziek I know isn't reading very fast (or apparently carefully), but that's about it. He's not faking his inactivity or, if he is, he's doing it very well.
Sherlock I need to read more on, no ifs or buts about it.

J we're getting content from. He's very sideliney but I remember J being sideliney in the past. Interested to see where it goes.

Gorf I dunno much about but he's special so I dunno if I'd want to lynch him or not.

Scary has been a nonstop sheep. Would be fine lynching him as a default but know nothing.


Nabe hasn't been normal Nabe, agree w/@J. I don't see him contributing what he could, not really. Would rather see the bottom list get more traction before coming back to this. I dunno what to think of Nabe but I've seen enough to where I should be able to. Maybe just need to re-read slot, he just stands out more than anyone else and instinctually I want to hammer that nail.

@ Nameless what your read on Nabe

 

[Raziek]

@ Maximum Carnage I'm skimming the thread to maintain some semblance of currency, but please answer this:

I've been putting off a thorough read because there's a lot of **** that just looks like Gheb being a hobgoblin and JDietz trying to break his record on how far he can shove his foot down his own throat.

@ Maximum Carnage : Now that I did it for you, what was the point of asking me for that flavor business? Was that Ryker trying to get me to play, or was there a deeper purpose for it?

 

[Maximum Carnage]

@ Maximum Carnage I'm skimming the thread to maintain some semblance of currency, but please answer this:

http://smashboards.com/threads/fina...fia-day-1-begins.347584/page-15#post-16337438

I answered before you even asked.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gheb's post on me was more of a "Boo, J I don't like you or the way you play mafia" he's always had this gripe and wants to "teach me the right way" .

I honestly take Gheb's opinion with the tiniest grain of salt because his opinion on quite a lot of things are wrong/bad/incorrect/full of hot air.

Cool on him just making it more of a petty based response so I don't have much to respond towards that. Other than:

Please take your ego out of your response to me. You aren't my Senpai and never will be, so stop.

@ Maximum Carnage : Your reads list is interestingly methodical. I don't have much to say otherwise towards your post.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm actually semi-steaming from Gheb's post and want to tear it a new one but there is no reason for me to do that to a town read. That's what post-game is for and I'll bring it up there.

 

[Raziek]

Oh, I did miss that. Thanks for re-quoting it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yes, I am still very much a MT buff and theatre buff. Especially considering it's my Major and I go to a Performing Arts College(this fall) too haha.

Bro I started working at a children's theatre (ages 12-19 so it's not like really crappy lol) teaching the actors vocals and yo I've never had so much fun making bank. We're getting read to run How to Succeed in Business in two days, so yea I assume from that you can get more of an understanding of why my activity is kinda in the pits

Also I empathize so much with you this game because it's a frustrating game. Are you interested in pursuing Ditzy/Town Pr because of connections, they are the most talked about now, or just to further your own reads on other slots? I can't bring myself to vote them because they are towny reads for me.

I think scum lies within the midst of those two.

Yay I'm special

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

​

@ #HBC | Nabe : Explain the bolded to me like I'm a child because I have no idea what that sentence even means. Also I want to talk to you about your outburst, that was very OoC, hun. I mean you usually keep a very good calm posture in games unless someone really dun ****s up, I didn't really see that besides OS just being annoying and a tad childish. I feel confident in my ability to be able to read you but you are making this hard for me by not really doing that much.

You and Vult are both playing within segments of the full player list. You haven't addressed the whole cast, and you've reached out to certain players more strongly. You always play the social game -- you're about people rather than facts, and every time you make a post, your full attention is on someone. That would be taxing, so it's reasonable that your focus is on less than the full list of players. But you're not really public about that, and that's something I admire in Vult's posts so far -- he doesn't ever give the impression that he's got his eye on everyone. Sometimes, I feel like you're paying a player's name lip service when you're really not thinking of them, but rather, of how you would look if you didn't.

@ "outburst", I was calm when I told OS off. Neither head of that hydra can be allowed to lay grounds for the other to dig in, and that's what will happen unless you're straight with the one trying to cause their version of trouble. But if you're referring to something else, then I haven't understood.

When did we last play together?

@@[USER=179412]Nabe

Tell me your biggest scum-reads and why. ... Who do you see being the lynch of toDay based on things that have begun to centralized ... I also want words from you ... regarding MC/Scary.[/USER]

- DSH, I suppose. There's something twigging me with both heads, but where I'm put off of a lynch is that I'm missing the gutscum on Ryu I normally expect. In general, I think he's been trying to change his gameplay, so my confusion could be owed to that. dabuz is another scumread; dabuz' play has been similar to Scary (read below) but I recall more of an agenda. As it was related to me, I wasn't impressed.
- Thus far this is shaping up to be a very level-headed game. Likely recipients of the cut are Town PR/me/Gheb, in that order, but I don't think anyone else is too far behind, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a last-minute turn on any player, save Laundry and maybe Gorf.
- Regarding MC/Scary as separate players, I assume. Scary is a flat null who is either not posting enough, or not interacting with enough people (some Vinyl vibes). OS is a very pointed null -- give me Ryker and I can generally make something of him. I've listed the motivation for both factions in what that slot is doing, but in recent posts my read of those motivations has shifted, as I wouldn't have expected either faction to put me forth as a lynch as they've done. But again, there's the null: OS always changes his play when he's being talked about. There's nothing to be made of it in a Day phase.

 

[Overswarm]

wrong thread, replacing to social :D