Fight Illiteracy! - A Tip Compilation on Reading

[metroid1117]

Perhaps someone should say something about following up our throws... but I think that is also being covered in our upcoming guide. I swear, we should just merge this into the guide completely.

I agree. Either that, or add it as a link to useful threads.

And guys, just as a heads-up: if you want a certain tip to be added to the OP, please try to make it a neat format that matches the other posts that can be found there. I don't want to summarize part of a discussion nor edit other people's writing.

 

[PentaSalia]

Asian: Bored, Red-X, Kimchi, Metroid
wanna be Asians, Penta
White: Brett and Kirk
Black: Silven and Ren.

you forget meh!

and i want to give some suggestions for this but im afraid it's going to be wrong and boreds gona go

"YOU'RE WRONG PENTA, QUIT LIFE"
lol ._.

 

[theeboredone]

you forget meh!

and i want to give some suggestions for this but im afraid it's going to be wrong and boreds gona go

"YOU'RE WRONG PENTA, QUIT LIFE"
lol ._.

Penta, Penta, Penta...you have known me long enough to know that I would never say "Quit life". Depending on what kinda awesome I wanna display I would...

Correct you nicely
Correct you and make you wish you were never born
Correct you and then state how awesome I am
All of the above.

 

[Nysyarc]

Not sure what the others are, I'm just gonna assume they are white...canadians don't count.

Hey, Canadians are just as white and/or black as anyone else! ... That probably came out wrong. In any case, I'm white. Also IIRC from Kirk's live stream, I think Ryko is black. We need moar profile thingies getting done.

And yah, follow ups to throws like Dthrow is a good idea (stalking and then Usmashing, etc...). I'd do it but it's late and I don't feel like typing much.

Correct you nicely
Correct you and make you wish you were never born
Correct you and then state how awesome I am
All of the above.

I'm gonna say...

D) All of the above.

Final answer. So did I get the million dollars?

 

[Rykoshet]

Ren, Myself, And Silven are all black

 

[Marauder]

I iz a black man lawl *drinks carton of kool-aid*

 

[XquiZiTX8X]

Asian: Bored, Red-X, Kimchi, Metroid
White: Brett and Kirk
Black: Silven and Ren.
Hispanic: Quiz

:>

 

[Rorar]

thanks guys these tips helped a bunch :D

 

[Palpi]

I am white. AB is hispanic.

 

[PentaSalia]

Penta, Penta, Penta...you have known me long enough to know that I would never say "Quit life". Depending on what kinda awesome I wanna display I would...

Correct you nicely
Correct you and make you wish you were never born
Correct you and then state how awesome I am
All of the above.

lmao you're the guy i know that can be conceited and still be cool about it >_>
i want your confidence


anyway i'll see if there's anything i can come up with to suggest ._.
everything has been said already lol

 

[LuLLo]

I'm white AND Dutch, how about that

 

[Teh Brettster]

This has gone very far off topic...

*Reverts to last save*

Let's try again.

 

[Palpi]

Ike's doesn't have too many tools that make his "reading" game that great. Watching mikehaze you will see he tries to read opponents after he hits with the first hit of dancing blade. He will either turn around grab, pivot grab or f-smash because his opponents have a tendency to roll. He also will shield breaker if the opponent tends to shield a decent amount. (A lot of marths do this, just an example)

We pretty much covered everything big, or everything I could think of.

Another example of reading. Anther is a mind reader. In apex pools my friend, Melo played him and he rolled from ledge with diddy and anther was charging a skull bash away from the ledge as if he knew he was going to roll from the ledge, that is not character specific though...just being too legit

 

[LuLLo]

True, Ike can't really force situations where opponents make mistakes more frequently, but when you read an opponent correctly (which should happen because we play Ike and can't win any other way than reading perfectly) the rewards are great, an airdodge or roll into f-smash at 30-40 is deadly, people know and fear this and they will do everything to avoid it, and that's where we can strike too, abusing the fact that they try to avoid our hard attacks all the time, they're bound to make mistakes. Don't have any character specific stuff though.

 

[PentaSalia]

Ike's doesn't have too many tools that make his "reading" game that great. Watching mikehaze you will see he tries to read opponents after he hits with the first hit of dancing blade. He will either turn around grab, pivot grab or f-smash because his opponents have a tendency to roll. He also will shield breaker if the opponent tends to shield a decent amount. (A lot of marths do this, just an example)

We pretty much covered everything big, or everything I could think of.

Another example of reading. Anther is a mind reader. In apex pools my friend, Melo played him and he rolled from ledge with diddy and anther was charging a skull bash away from the ledge as if he knew he was going to roll from the ledge, that is not character specific though...just being too legit

lol ike can do that too!
his downsmash punishes people that roll from the edge

 

[-RedX-]

Wtf is a downsmash?
Seriously, Ike's dsmash is horrible. I never use it at all when usmash exists.

 

[PentaSalia]

dsmash to punish people that roll from the edge is more of a mix up of course
like once in an entire set sort of mix up lol

and if you've done your homework,you can see which characters roll from the edge more often than others
but of course it always depends on the players themselves too which will test your mind reading skills
blah blah stuff like that lol

hey,you fell for it didnt ya ?

LOL

anyway
yea

 

[san.]

There's plenty of things you can do other than dsmash. Dsmash doesn't exist. It's just a myth.

What I like to do sometimes is fast fall fair them at the ledge (with the tip of fair goes to the ledge) and time i at the end of their invincibility. It forces them to at least release to regrab the ledge I guess, but doesn't allow them to get up easily. Fair is too far away for them to jump up and punish it (and not to mention reach ike), and Ike can respond to rolls and getups in time.

Fair will ht most characters on the ledge. Not sure who exactly it doesn't, though.

 

[PentaSalia]

so much hate for downsmash

so i guess you all hate pie while you're at it?D:

LOL

 

[Kimchi]

Call me crazy, but I've been finding Dsmash extremely useful in the D3 matchup. Here's what I think about it.
Using Dsmash will help you in 3 ways if D3 is sitting there shielding:
1. Hits D3's shield but it knocks him back away from grab range.
2. D3 rolls towards you, and second hit of Dsmash hits him.
3. D3 tries to grab you before you Dsmash but messes the timing up and you hit him with Dsmash.
Only way D3 should be able to counter is if he grabs just as Dsmash hits, exchanging hits or he grabs you before you Dsmash, which comes out pretty fast anyway.
*shrugs*

 

[Palpi]

You crazy kimchi, you crazy.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I can't decide if you were joking or not, Kimch.

Regardless, you crazy.

 

[-RedX-]

There's plenty of things you can do other than dsmash. Dsmash doesn't exist. It's just a myth.

This.
Kim, you crazy man.

 

[theeboredone]

Call me crazy, but I've been finding Dsmash extremely useful in the D3 matchup. Here's what I think about it.
Using Dsmash will help you in 3 ways if D3 is sitting there shielding:
1. Hits D3's shield but it knocks him back away from grab range.
2. D3 rolls towards you, and second hit of Dsmash hits him.
3. D3 tries to grab you before you Dsmash but messes the timing up and you hit him with Dsmash.
Only way D3 should be able to counter is if he grabs just as Dsmash hits, exchanging hits or he grabs you before you Dsmash, which comes out pretty fast anyway.
*shrugs*

1. Better to n-air
2. Better off using n-air
3. N-air

 

[Palpi]

4. a nair would probably be a more beneficial option in the given situation.

 

[san.]

I thought Dsmash was very easy to shield + punish. I don't think the shield push is enough if the opponent blocks the first hit of it.

 

[Nysyarc]

Plus Dsmash has several days of ending lag. Several days. Nair is just much lower risk and greater reward if you connect; Dsmash doesn't even have potential to combo into anything because by the time it finally ends, several days will have gone by.

 

[Kimchi]

*shrugs*
I like to experiment a lot .
Kimchi the Ike Docta!

 

[theeboredone]

Kimchi, you don't even have a PhD in Fighting For Your Friends. GTFO.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I had a PhD in sympathy, but I shredded it, burned it, and scattered its ashes in a public restroom.

-------
Here's a tip. When you're landing onstage and your opponent is stalking you, waiting for you to land... some characters like to grab you in the 2 frames it takes to land, some like to hit you (although a good player would mix it up).... but say you're going against a Charizard. These guys love to use rock smash when you're landing. If you see it coming, use counter. If you're playing a grab-happy person or character, it's either in your best interest not to use your second jump early and then not land next to them. But if you don't have a choice and you know they're going to grab you, your best bet is to hit them with whatever will hit them.

I just woke up, so I hope what I wrote made sense. =D

 

[metroid1117]

I had a PhD in sympathy, but I shredded it, burned it, and scattered its ashes in a public restroom.

-------
Here's a tip. When you're landing onstage and your opponent is stalking you, waiting for you to land... some characters like to grab you in the 2 frames it takes to land, some like to hit you (although a good player would mix it up).... but say you're going against a Charizard. These guys love to use rock smash when you're landing. If you see it coming, use counter. If you're playing a grab-happy person or character, it's either in your best interest not to use your second jump early and then not land next to them. But if you don't have a choice and you know they're going to grab you, your best bet is to hit them with whatever will hit them.

I just woke up, so I hope what I wrote made sense. =D

Add what to do versus shieldgrabbers, then I'll put it up .

 

[san.]

When I'm landing from offstage, sometimes I like to nair while still moving forward, so that the back of nair may hit the opponent. Nair acts as a shield if your opponent will try to chase you in the air, and if they try to shield, it'll be very hard to punish. I do this a lot more on battlefield because of the way the platforms are set up.


Hitting them with "whatever will hit them" is not a good idea, because it is very obvious and will be punished. Counter, too, lol. If they're trying to get you when you land, just avoid them at all costs. Don't bring yourself to danger, because chances are, that's what they're expecting you to try to do.

 

[Teh Brettster]

*looks at two previous posts*

Touchѐ.

Well. There was my attempt to keep the thread alive and on topic.

Your turn. *hands torch to nearest person*

 

[theeboredone]

*Takes torch*

If you're awesome like me, you should be able to read opponents no problem.

But in all seriousness, I've tested out playing intense blood pumping music today and here are my results.

This is similar to how Mr. Doom plays like. I came out reading opponents, showing quick movement, and being overall more active...however, as the series goes down, I started to wear down and become mentally exhausted (Over an hour of straight brawling). I became sick of the music and just wanted to take it easy. Granted it may have been to overall fatigue (been awake since morning, not a tournament, etc.), but I found myself able to play better with the proper music.

Another theory I have going on is the distraction of music may help you overcome nervousness during tournament sets. Nervousness makes you stale and predictable...makes it harder for you to read and counter. I'll test it out at HOBO.

 

[-RedX-]

Very true, that's why I have my wii modded and playing music of my choice in brawl =p

 

[Mr. Doom]

The music thing won't work with me. I focus too much on either the fight or the music. And leaning on either extremity will result in me doing worse than I want. Of course, there are distractions other than the two listed beforehand.

I could whine about it, but that won't ever help me. If I find a median that could balance things out, I'd probably be able to perform to my maximum capability.

On a side note, I would like your opinion about a very situational, risky move. Say I were leading by one stock. Would leading someone off the edge, then using aether to suicide with the opponent be an idea to work with? My reasons for asking this is because I want to shatter the opponent's whole mind. What I mean by shattering the opponent's mind is putting him/her in panic mode so that s/he is bound to make mistakes left and right. Then I could use that to my advantage to pull off a win for me. Dirty, yes, but I suppose one has to use any means necessary to win.

There was one day when I actually, for a lack of better words, "aether-cided" about three or different people. I ended up winning the match at the end of it all.

I hope this made some kind of sense.

 

[metroid1117]

On a side note, I would like your opinion about a very situational, risky move. Say I were leading by one stock. Would leading someone off the edge, then using aether to suicide with the opponent be an idea to work with? My reasons for asking this is because I want to shatter the opponent's whole mind. What I mean by shattering the opponent's mind is putting him/her in panic mode so that s/he is bound to make mistakes left and right. Then I could use that to my advantage to pull off a win for me. Dirty, yes, but I suppose one has to use any means necessary to win.

There was one day when I actually, for a lack of better words, "aether-cided" about three or different people. I ended up winning the match at the end of it all.

I hope this made some kind of sense.

I do this a LOT in Brawl+, it's especially useful if people drop down from the edge to edgeguard you and don't expect an Aethercide.

However, I haven't really tried it in Brawl because it's so much easier to DI out of Aether with the increased hitlag. I suppose that if you got them with only the portion of the attack where Ragnell spins in place it would work, but a smart opponent can still SDI out of it and avoid the spike. From your own personal success though, I might try this out more often in friendlies.