EVO 2015: Melee or Smash 4?

[KayB]

So I was browsing Twitter earlier when I saw Mr.Wizard's tweet asking everyone what game they'd want at EVO, and among Smash games, the two most common replies were Melee and Smash 4.

Out of curiosity, I want to see the community's take on this.

If you could only choose one of the two Smash titles, SSBM or Smash 4, to appear at EVO 2015, which would it be?

 

[Snoop]

Easily Smash 4. We don't know yet what kind of competitive viability it has, so this could be the one recorded document of a tournament full of pro players who don't know what the hell they're doing.

 

[Djent]

^ There are plenty of tourneys like that in the early-game, lol. Besides, the 9-month gap b/w the 3DS release and EVO will mean that people will all have a general idea of what they're doing.

Actually, that's kind of why I'd like to see Smash 4 at EVO. If it were newbies floundering around with characters they'd barely studied, I'd say Melee. But 9 months (8 for WiiU) should give people enough time to prepare.

 

[keninblack]

EVO picks the new game guaranteed for at least a year. Smash 4 is happening.

IF it comes back in 2016 or if Melee or something gets picked over it, we'll see in the future, its not even a contest this year though.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Smash 4. I've personally gotten tired of watching Melee (not that I hate the game, but after all these years I need a break from it) and I'd like to see something new. Plus, I find Smash 4 fun to watch.

 

[AuraBreak]

I love Melee and multishines, but personally I think Smash 4 will result in a more enjoyable tournament because the metagame will still be evolving at that time. Not to mention having Smash 4 will encourage new players to attend because loads of new players will be joining the smash community when the new game is out.

 

[Cactusblah]

It will be Smash 4. Just rewatch EVO 2013 and 2014 if you want to see melee.

 

[Ganreizu]

95% chance that smash4 will be at evo and not melee, because history shows that evo always has favoritism towards the new kid on the block.

Easily Smash 4. We don't know yet what kind of competitive viability it has, so this could be the one recorded document of a tournament full of pro players who don't know what the hell they're doing.

I've been trying to rack my mind as to why a tournament full of scrubs would be something anyone would want to see during the biggest fighting game event of the year.

You want a tournament full of pro players that don't know what the hell they're doing? There's at least 3 or 4 3DS smash4 tournaments on youtube already.

If smash4's meta evolves in such a way that professional gamers are still scrub tier 8 months after wii u release, melee deserves to be at evo more.

Smash 4. I've personally gotten tired of watching Melee (not that I hate the game, but after all these years I need a break from it) and I'd like to see something new. Plus, I find Smash 4 fun to watch.

Hello?

"After all these years" - 2 years of resurgence is enough that you need a break? Melee wasn't at evo for like 6 years before then.

Twitch covers both games and there are dedicated streams and tournaments for both games. You can watch however much of either game you want.

Just rewatch EVO 2013 and 2014 if you want to see melee.

How about no

That sounds just about as hilarious as saying melee shouldn't have been at evo 2013 because you can just go rewatch evo 2007 if you want to see melee.

 

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

I would personally like to see Melee at EVO 2015. I love Smash 4 to frames, but I feel that EVO having Melee is just a thing.

 

[Sandfox]

It would be smarter for them to go with Smash 4 and then have a Melee side event that could possibly be streamed by someone in the community.

 

[Trickerhere]

Smash 4 imo

 

[CircleOne]

Id have to agree and say Smash 4 as a main game and Melee as a side game. They do it with Street Fighter all the time. Ultra Street Fighter 4 as the main game while they have Street Fighter: 3rd Strike as a side event. 3rd Strike is a better game, imo, but its outdated and Its not what the general public wants to see. Same with Melee...the general community probably wants to see a new game being played at high level vs an older one.

 

[Toon612Link]

Why not with your left hand you are controlling a tv with melee on the right, and with your right hand you are controlling a tv with smash 4 to your left... problem solved.

 

[Bladeviper]

Why not with your left hand you are controlling a tv with melee on the right, and with your right hand you are controlling a tv with smash 4 to your left... problem solved.

its the only logical solution, but on topic id like to see both even if one is a side game. but if only one does get in this would be a good chance for the community at large to try and make sure it does not splinter like last time

 

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

Why not with your left hand you are controlling a tv with melee on the right, and with your right hand you are controlling a tv with smash 4 to your left... problem solved.

GENIUS!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Soap]

It will be Smash 4. Just rewatch EVO 2013 and 2014 if you want to see melee.

It should be Melee. You can just rewatch the Nintendo Open Tournament if you want to see Smash 4.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Hello?

"After all these years" - 2 years of resurgence is enough that you need a break? Melee wasn't at evo for like 6 years before then.

Twitch covers both games and there are dedicated streams and tournaments for both games. You can watch however much of either game you want.

Dude, what the heck. I've been watching competitive Melee consistently for much longer than 2 years. I don't care if it wasn't at EVO for a very long time; I, personally (keyword here), am tired of watching it for now and want something new.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

To everyone saying Melee will probably be a side event, that's not how it works. Games are made into side events if there isn't enough entrants. Considering how huge the Melee scene is, it ain't going to be a side event. Evo bases the importance of game by the number of entrants, not what is new or something. If I recall, Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown was new during Evo 2013 or 2012, yet failed to make it to the main event, due to low turn out. Smash 4 will obviously make the main stage, as its too big of a game to ignore, and a lot of the Melee guys will try it out. I see the game's future in two ways. Either this will be the game that melds the casual and hardcore players together to create an international competitive scene, comparable to Sf4, or it becomes part of two camps. Those who play Melee, and those who play Smash 4. 64 and Brawl are going to become irrelevant at that point.

 

[Ganreizu]

Dude, what the heck. I've been watching competitive Melee consistently for much longer than 2 years. I don't care if it wasn't at EVO for a very long time; I, personally (keyword here), am tired of watching it for now and want something new.

You can watch however much of either game you want.

Regardless, Evo doesn't pick games to host based off them wanting something ne-oh wait...

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I know I can watch whatever I want bruh. I just want to see Smash 4 at EVO 2015. Is that so bad? Lol.

 

[Chilex]

Melee. Why would a game which had 1k entrants for its latest EVO event be ditched for a developing game, which is certainly not going to look as exhilirating to watch?

 

[Sandfox]

Melee. Why would a game which had 1k entrants for its latest EVO event be ditched for a developing game, which is certainly not going to look as exhilirating to watch?

Because Smash 4 is easier for them to run, will probably have quite a few new/returning people showing up in addition to the other competitive players that switch over, will probably pull more interested on stream, and Nintendo will probably push it if they're sponsoring Evo.

We have no idea what competitive Smash 4 is going to look like next year, and Melee isn't exactly "exhilarating" to watch.

 

[DeepDish]

and Melee isn't exactly "exhilarating" to watch.

One person's opinion.

 

[Sandfox]

One person's opinion.

Its fun to watch people pull off hype things in Melee, but exhilarating in a strong word IMO.

 

[zozo]

I think that Smash 4 should be the game. It's already bringing in a ton of new players to the Smash community all over the world, even Japanese players like Tokido are interested in picking up the game. Hell, it's even gotten ME into competitive Smash. With the recent resurgence of Smash in the entire FGC, it would only make sense to keep the train rolling by adding the new Smash game that's bringing new people into the scene to the EVO lineup. Why keep Melee when the majority of new players will be playing the new game? Why put a 12 year old game in front of a new game?

 

[Diabolical]

Why put a 12 year old game in front of a new game?

Because Melee is the much better competitive game. That's a fact

 

[Toon612Link]

Because Melee is the much better competitive game. That's a fact

I think you need to look in a dictionary.

 

[Diabolical]

I think you need to look in a dictionary.

Okay, then explain how Smash4 is better competitively, for spectating and for participating. So far we have only found things that simplify the experience, like Vectoring and no shield stun. I don't think anyone would argue smash 4 is a stronger fighter than Melee any day

 

[WritersBlah]

But to answer OP's question, if I absolutely HAD to choose one over the other to be at EVO, I'd probably choose Smash 4, if only because nine months experience with the game should be enough to get a general grip on the game's style and it needs a chance for the metagame to start evolving. We'll still have Melee tournaments with Big House, MLG, and the like, but I personally think that if for whatever reason, Smash 4 DOESN'T make it as a main event at EVO, it'll literally prove how unwilling the Smash community is to change with the times.

 

[Moon Monkey]

But to answer OP's question, if I absolutely HAD to choose one over the other to be at EVO, I'd probably choose Smash 4, if only because nine months experience with the game should be enough to get a general grip on the game's style and it needs a chance for the metagame to start evolving. We'll still have Melee tournaments with Big House, MLG, and the like, but I personally think that if for whatever reason, Smash 4 DOESN'T make it as a main event at EVO, it'll literally prove how unwilling the Smash community is to change with the times.

I agree

 

[MTL Kyle]

Nintendo. That's why.

 

[zozo]

Because Melee is the much better competitive game. That's a fact

The fact that you're stating your OPINION as fact just like every Melee diehard totally discredits your entire comment. NOBODY can say that Melee is better competitvely than a game that ISN'T EVEN OUT IN THE STATES YET, and HASN'T EVEN BEEN FULLY EXPLORED IN THE SLIGHTEST. Not every Smash game has to have wavedashing and character slidiing and jumping all over the screen at a lightning fast pace. Smash 4 is perfect because it's a happy medium between Melee and Brawl. I really dislike Melee fanboys like you that immediately write off a new Smash game before the thing even comes out. Plus you completely ignored every valid point in my comment and zeroed in on why Melee should be at EVO even though it's a 12 year old game. If Smash 4 is more popular (which it will be) than Melee, then that alone makes it deserving of the EVO spot. Same reason why Ultra Street Fighter 4 deserves the spot over SF 3rd Strike, Tekken Tag 2 over Tekken 6, UMVC3 over MVC2, etc.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Not every Smash game has to have wavedashing and character slidiing and jumping all over the screen at a lightning fast pace.

No, but they have to have depth. 64 has a Brawlesque neutral game at high level and doesn't have wavedash (teleporting doesn't count k?!), but nobody cusses at 64 because the game has a lot of depth into it.

Think about it.

If Smash 4 is more popular (which it will be) than Melee, then that alone makes it deserving of the EVO spot. Same reason why Ultra Street Fighter 4 deserves the spot over SF 3rd Strike, Tekken Tag 2 over Tekken 6, UMVC3 over MVC2, etc.

If you are not familiar with the FGC in general, you refrain yourself from the discussion.

Even though the game might be popular because of the novelty and casual appeal, you have to remember that SSF2T had the main stage on EVO and it was insanely hype. Traditional games SHOULD have their spot because they are the foundation of the community.

Also, those companies put money into EVO to have their game there. Nintendo never spent a dime and ****ed us over for a looooong time. Suddenly they see a marketing opportunity and we are taking in the butt because of that ? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLL NO. Melee should stay there because we built all of this and giving the spot to Nintendo would be the ultimate offense to us.

Smash 4 is perfect because it's a happy medium between Melee and Brawl. I really dislike Melee fanboys like you that immediately write off a new Smash game before the thing even comes out. Plus you completely ignored every valid point in my comment and zeroed in on why Melee should be at EVO even though it's a 12 year old game.

Being a perfect medium between something really good and hell on earth shouldn't be an example. I really dislike Brawl fanboys like you who get all defensive when people state that Melee is a really good game, therefore it should have the spotlight.

It could be a 20 year old game. It's still good, people still play it, community has been more active than ever and being the 3rd most played game at EVO, there are simply NO ARGUMENTS of why it should be taken off.


Smash 4 is going to be cool, I know it, but stop being a Brawltard.

 

[Diabolical]

The fact that you're stating your OPINION as fact

Do me a favour and read every single word of this article http://www.meleeitonme.com/on-the-future-and-the-repeat-of-history/
Bassically Smash4 plays like Brawl, defensively. A defensive game is not a good fighting game

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

Do me a favour and read every single word of this article http://www.meleeitonme.com/on-the-future-and-the-repeat-of-history/
Bassically Smash4 plays like Brawl, defensively. A defensive game is not a good fighting game

Thanks for the article. This part worries me a lot:

Smash 4’s combo game will evolve to work very similar to Brawl’s.

Now, simply removing the ability to airdodge out of hitstun helps a lot, but you can still airdodge out of tumble. You might be thinking “so? There’s still hitstun.” The reality is that you actually have very poor options after exiting hitstun in Smash 64 and Melee. Many combos are not truly in hitstun, but work because the opponent still can’t avoid the follow-ups. The reason characters like Samus are so hard to combo in Melee is because she can immediately nair out of hitstun; most characters don’t have a quick option like that. Everyone in Smash 4 is comparable to Melee Samus because you can airdodge out of tumble, and have slow fall speeds.

I'm still very optimistic about the game. Me and some friends have been playing Melee forever, and Brawl never stuck with us. I am hoping Smash 4 is fun enough to get them to play it. It doesn't need to be Melee but I really would love the game to evolve into a faster version of Brawl.

EDIT: But I kind of disagree with you saying defensive makes it not competitive. Having defensive options and defensive-based characters is fine but it also needs combos and methods of quick KOs (not infinites or anything broken like that) to balance it out

 

[MTL Kyle]

EDIT: But I kind of disagree with you saying defensive makes it not competitive. Having defensive options and defensive-based characters is fine but it also needs combos and methods of quick KOs (not infinites or anything broken like that) to balance it out

Having more defensive characters or more offensive characters in the roster don't matter at all, because what determines what style is better is the physics of the game. In Brawl, there's simply no reason at all to be offensive because the reward and the chances of getting punished are not worth it.

In some matchups, the game is basically a game of chicken, hence why the game developed into a camp fest.

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

Having more defensive characters or more offensive characters in the roster don't matter at all, because what determines what style is better is the physics of the game. In Brawl, there's simply no reason at all to be offensive because the reward and the chances of getting punished are not worth it.

In some matchups, the game is basically a game of chicken, hence why the game developed into a camp fest.

True. I was sort of saying it from a general point of view not just smash.

 

[Super Fighting Robot]

I think sm4shs meta needs to develop a little more before it enters a huge tournament

 

[Super Fighting Robot]

Okay, then explain how Smash4 is better competitively, for spectating and for participating. So far we have only found things that simplify the experience, like Vectoring and no shield stun. I don't think anyone would argue smash 4 is a stronger fighter than Melee any day

Just because you take things out of it doesn't make it less competitive. Look at League and Dota 2. Dota 2 has the old mechanics of Dota that make it hard for no reason other than to be "hardcore" while league has a more simplified set of mechanics yet League is more popular.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Just because you take things out of it doesn't make it less competitive. Look at League and Dota 2. Dota 2 has the old mechanics of Dota that make it hard for no reason other than to be "hardcore" while league has a more simplified set of mechanics yet League is more popular.

As mentioned before to the other guy, if you don't know ANYTHING about the subject, refrain yourself from talking.

League is more popular because Riot wanted it, but DotA community is really really strong, bringing the biggest prize ever into an e-sports event.

Every League player respects DotA and a lot of them started there and came to League because of the money/more people playing. By no means all this validates League as a superior game or more competitive. (this coming from a League player)